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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 106
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #106
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Monday, 2 January 1995 Volume 01 : Number 106
Re: DOOM 2 to Heretic PWAD converter
RE: DESCENT specs possibility
Re: DESCENT specs possibility
What is on-topic on this mailing list
Re: DESCENT specs possibility
ftp.idsoftware.com /id POLAR.ZIP ???
Re: ftp.idsoftware.com /id POLAR.ZIP ???
Re: DESCENT specs possibility
Re: Descent Critique & lesson
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Brad Spencer <spencer@ug.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 22:18:35 -0400
Subject: Re: DOOM 2 to Heretic PWAD converter
On Fri, 13 Jan 1995 jordanf@server.globalone.net wrote:
> > Ummm... is it just me or did anybody else realize that an easier method
> > is to (my god :) keep Doom, Doom 2, _and_ Heretic on your hard drive at
> > the same time?.... Just an idea..
> >
>
> DOOM II has a super shotgun, DOOM does not. Heretic has flying and
> looking up and down, DOOM and DOOM II do not. Heretic has different
> weapons than DOOM and DOOM II. It would be nice to be able to play one
> wad on ALL of these DOOM-engine-based platforms!
>
Yes I know, but you sacrifice the look due to the missing textures (or
the completely different textures in heretic), so you may as well just
design a wad especially for the game (this is mainly directed towards
doom <--> heretic converters)... If anyone is feeling really ambitious,
why not make a Wolfenstein to Doom converter while you're at it :)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Brad Spencer - Bilbo - spencer@ug.cs.dal.ca - Dalhousie University
"Everybody is Kung-Fu Fragging . . ." Remember... God plays Doom
------------------------------
From: sb@SCRUZNET.COM
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 94 18:48:32 PST
Subject: RE: DESCENT specs possibility
Why in the world would a company not release their editor...
assuming it runs on the same platform as the game itself,
i.e. on the PC.
/////////////////////////////////////////////
- ---------
Darrin Chambers
Somewhere just north of San Jose, CA, USA
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"laugh while you can, monkey boy!" -Lizardo
sb@ScruzNnet.com IRC: chocko
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From: ffjjd@aurora.alaska.edu
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 21:49:57 +0000
Subject: Re: DESCENT specs possibility
>Reply-To: doom-editing@NVG.UNIT.NO
>
>Why in the world would a company not release their editor...
>assuming it runs on the same platform as the game itself,
>i.e. on the PC.
Perhaps they'd like to retain an edge, even if only slight, over other
level designers so that they can either crank them out faster or with
higher quality. Other than that it's hard to explain.
Clint
------------------------------
From: Tom.Holmes%224@satlink.oau.org (Tom Holmes)
Date: 31 Dec 94 21:49:00 -0500
Subject: What is on-topic on this mailing list
Much talk has been heard lately with regard to what is and is not
'on-topic' in the doom-editing mailing list. What follows in a
by-no-means exhaustive list of what is to be permitted by policy.
Suggestions for amendment of this policy are welcome through
e-mail.
Subjects which are explicitly on-topic:
Modification of DooM, DooM ][
Modification of Heratic and any other id sponsored DooM spin-off
Any news related to future first-person 3d games by id software
*Anything* that *anyone* from id software cares to say
News related to future releases of editing software by the authors
of any DooM editing software
Subjects which are permitted insofar as they relate in some way to
DooM editing:
Modification of ROTT or any other first-person 3d games which
emulate the DooM model
Subjects which are tolerated as long as they shed some light on
game editing or state-of-the-art and then only briefly
Three dimensional games which do not follow the DooM model such as
Descent
NOW, having said that, if you aren't the type to remember such exacting
rules and requirements, you can choose to just follow the spirit of what
I envision this mailing list to be: While the purpose of this list is
the discussion of advanced doom-editing techniques, there are many
subjects outside of this narrow definition which are of great interest to
the vast majority of participants. In the interest of keeping the
enthusiasm and spontaneity of the list in good repair, I trust you each
to determine whether or not a message fulfills this broad requirement.
If things get out-of-hand, I will be sure to let you know. If you think
things are getting out-of-hand, feel free to send me e-mail. But by all
means be a good list-citizen and don't succumb to the temptation to
voice your complaints to the readership at-large.
'nuff said.
Tom Holmes
Caretaker
- --- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
- --
|Fidonet: Tom Holmes 1:363/224
|Internet: Tom.Holmes%224@satlink.oau.org
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.
| From C.F.Satlink +1-407-240-7781 (ANSI or Vt-100 _required_).
------------------------------
From: djr@infinet.com (Dan J. Rockwell)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 03:20:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: DESCENT specs possibility
>
> Why in the world would a company not release their editor...
> assuming it runs on the same platform as the game itself,
> i.e. on the PC.
Well for one, if they did release it, I can assure you it wouldn't be free.
They'd make it an addon, and get some bucks outa it. Secondly their has all
the tricks features etc, they are just gonna hand that over to the puplic,
no matter if they could even charge a ton for it. It's their development
software. Why release an editor, that will undoubtly be beat by some home
grown version? THey'll just release the specs and let us do all the work.
It easier on the the support end, cause all they really support is the
original game, not the add on levels.
Imagine if ID tried to support all the wads out there. Too crazy...
Dan
------------------------------
From: "Gregg J. Anderson" <cadman@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 06:11:07 -0600 (CST)
Subject: ftp.idsoftware.com /id POLAR.ZIP ???
I am a little off-topic here, (par for the course) ;-)
but this is relevant for many people on the list.
to save any other poor soul from a *long* download from ftp.idsoftware.com,
the 7+ MB file POLAR.ZIP in /id is encrypted.
I saw that file in the listing someone posted here a couple of days ago,
so I am sure someone else here might be curious about it also.
No, I have no idea what POLAR.ZIP is, either...
but I would love to find out... maybe their editor? ;-)
(Hey, Id! you may want to think about moving that file or even putting a
.TXT file in there for it to warn the curious. Thanks!)
We now return to our normal doom-editing discussions. Thank you.
Happy Hacking,
=Gregg=
_____________________________________________________________________________
Gregg J. Anderson =o= cadman@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
Mankato State University =o= cadman@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Mankato, MN USA =o= Flames: Barney@purple.dino.CIA.gov
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Kevin Way <kway@omni.voicenet.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 10:13:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: ftp.idsoftware.com /id POLAR.ZIP ???
> to save any other poor soul from a *long* download from ftp.idsoftware.com,
> the 7+ MB file POLAR.ZIP in /id is encrypted.
well, it would appear to me that POLAR.ZIP is some sort of full doom 2
release in an encrypted zip.... why this is public info, i have no idea,
but I'm sure I wasn't the only one who wondered...
------------------------------
From: Brad Spencer <spencer@ug.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 16:28:41 -0400
Subject: Re: DESCENT specs possibility
On Sun, 1 Jan 1995, Dan J. Rockwell wrote:
> Well for one, if they did release it, I can assure you it wouldn't be free.
> They'd make it an addon, and get some bucks outa it. Secondly their has all
> the tricks features etc, they are just gonna hand that over to the puplic,
> no matter if they could even charge a ton for it. It's their development
> software. Why release an editor, that will undoubtly be beat by some home
> grown version? THey'll just release the specs and let us do all the work.
> It easier on the the support end, cause all they really support is the
> original game, not the add on levels.
>
> Imagine if ID tried to support all the wads out there. Too crazy...
>
I agree they probably won't release the editor (id didn't, and look at
Doom), but I don't see how by doing so they would become responsible for
supporting all of the "wads" created with it. I don't suppose Ralph and
the others assume responsibility for all of the wads created with DEU!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Brad Spencer - Bilbo - spencer@ug.cs.dal.ca - Dalhousie University
"Everybody is Kung-Fu Fragging . . ." Remember... God plays Doom
------------------------------
From: "Jason Hoffoss" <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 95 18:34:51 CST
Subject: Re: Descent Critique & lesson
On Fri, 30 Dec 94 13:13:05 -0500,
John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com> wrote:
>Hmmmmm,
>
>I just spent the last two days emersing myself in Descent and
>although it is not at all bad from a technical stand-point, it really
>lacks the "raise the hair on the back of your neck" feel of DOOM. It
>seems to me that a lot of effort was put into making a smoothly
>scrolling, 1st person, true 3D game engine but, not enough thought
>went into playability and ambiance (IMHO).
Have you tried playing it at a harder difficulty level? It gets quite a
bit more interesting then. Just like playing Doom at any skill level
below ultra-violence is boring, you need to play at a difficulty level in
descent that is barely more than you can handle. These robots rarely
scare the shit out of you like monsters in Doom tend to do at times,
though. I think the playability and ambiance is fine.
>I know this sounds like another rah rah for DOOM like you see on
>a.g.d but, my intention in posting this to emphisize that while the games
>we make should look good, how playable they are is what will really
>determine their popularity. I honestly believe that ID has this
>fully in mind with every game they make and it shows. When we make
>new levels, we like to show off to each other the neat tricks and
>techniques we develop but we should keep in mind that people are
>going to play these thing as well.
Exactly right. One of my all time favorite games is still Wings of Fury
that I only have on my Apple //gs. It's nowhere as complex as games
today, graphically, in size, in variety, etc. But, it's still a hell of a
lot more fun than a lot of games that come out today. Games being a lot
of fun is something most games designers seem to have forgotten lately.
As long as there are some games designers out there that haven't forgotten
this, we are ok. Id is one group that hasn't. Their main goal in
writting Doom in the first place was just to have a fun game like this to
play themselves. I personally think this is an excellent justification
for writting it. Game design isn't really what this list is about, but
this still applies to map designing for Doom.
>By the way, anyone else notice that John Carmack's name is in the credits
>for Descent? (Coincidence or not?)
I noticed it too. After seeing how impressive descent was, I just had to
check out the credits.. :)
>IMO, 2 player Descent sucks. Descent is far better as a single player game
>than a 2 player "DeathMatch". I've never tried 3+ player Descent OR Doom, but
>I think 2 player Doom stomps 2 player Descent. Your ships die too quickly to
>be able to find who's shooting at you most of the time. If someone catches
>you from behind you're as good as dead. And then the weapons and powerups you
>had are in the other player's grasp now; there are no respawning items. If
>you get surprised and hit first, you're almost certainly dead. You go
>spinning off in another direction when you take a hit, totally ruining your
>aim. So for a second or two you're just spinning helplessly, looking for the
>opponent you used to be able to see. Meanwhile, you're taking more hits. At
>least in Doom you had a chance of survival; if you can't see who just shot
>you, all you do is spin around. Search 4 directions while taking fire from
>the only spread cannon in the level? And the levels are too big to insure
>semiconstant shooting. Five minutes of hunting for a gun, only to find one
>and be toasted from behind (or above or below) and having all your stuff go
>to your killer. Thumbs down on 2 player Heretic; anyone for a DeathMatch?
Well, I love playing 2 player Descent. I like it better than deathmatch
Doom, actually. Being able to move up and down to dodge as well as side
to side helps a lot. It's just too hard to try dodging weapons in Doom
against other players when they really start getting good. Probably will
be in Descent too, but I just like it better. Nice being able to look
down at a room for someone to come in etc. I dunno what you are talking
about with this spinning when you get hit. I never noticed it myself.
And if you get killed off too fast when a battle starts, it's probably
because you don't get the hell out of the way when you start getting hit.
If you just sit there and spin around looking for who's shooting at you,
then you probably are going to die before you see him. Try running like
hell down a hallway to escape instead, maybe dropping a bomb or two behind
you just in case.
One last thing about Descent. It's actually very interesting how closely
related Descent and Quake appear to be. Quake was described as going to
have a totally 3D environment, and Descent has just that. Quake is going
to have texture-mapped polygon monsters. Descent has this. Something was
said about in quake you could get hit with someone's hammer and get
knocked on your back and be looking straight up at the sky or something.
From this I assume you can look at any angle in 2 different axis. Descent
allows you to so this. Looks like they beat id to a lot of this new
technology that Quake was going to lead the industy in. I personally
think the space ship feel is a little more fun than another Doom type
environment (must improved, I'm sure.) I just don't really like being
limited to moving is only 2 dimentions. I like having up and down. And
being able to orient yourself in any direction is also a lot of fun. Such
as flying up-side-down. Will you be able to see things up-side-down in
Quake? Descent just seems like it has more possibilities. I think that's
exactly what the designers were trying to capture, too, and they did so,
and in a very workable and believable way. I think a lot of thought went
into it, actually. And those flares are awesome too. Shoot one into a
dark corner to light it up before you go in. A truely original and
excellent idea.
-Jason
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #106
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