Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 175
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #175
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Wednesday, 22 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 175
Re: id-ea
ok, ok
RCPT stuff
Re: id-ea
together.net
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
TheWad game platform
Re: The Wad - Here we go!
Re: "The WAD" Doom2 only?
Re: id-ea
Re: That WAD thang...
Re: id-ea
RE: Re: id-ea
Re: together.net
Re: The Wad - Here we go!
RE: Re: The Wad - Here we go!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Kram Llens" <MSNELL@kitsune.art.rmit.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 12:29:28 EST-10
Subject: Re: id-ea
> From: Enigma <hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca>
> > On this topic, is there an easy way to change those very
> > annoying times for completion of levels.
>
> If this is a big enough project, we can get id to compile a new .exe just
> for us. After all, we're John's little friends from the internet!
>
can't it be changed with dehacked?
Kram
Kram_Llens@rmit.edu.au RMIT, Melbourne, Australia
Ph (03) 660 5378 Fax (03) 660 5342
"I bought some dehydrated water, but I don't
know what to add to it" -Steven Wright
------------------------------
From: adu001@bigcat.missouri.edu
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 21:00:51 -0500
Subject: ok, ok
Ok, I've been watching this entire super-wad thing going on and
it sounds interesting. Count me in. I have access to an
Indigo 2 if that helps any.
------------------------------
From: Mark York <MYORK@FS8HOST>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 20:26:08 -0600 (CST)
Subject: RCPT stuff
I think I've figgured it out. Whomever sent the two messages Re: id-ea
& Re: node generator comparison had their confirm reading bit set.
DON'T TURN ON CONFIRM READING FOR MAILING LISTS!!!!!
My mail reader (Pegasus Mail 4 Windows) automatically responds to
that bit.
Sorry once again about the RCPT:'s
Mark
------------------------------
From: Ian Springer <ips@remus.rutgers.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 21:28:32 EST
Subject: Re: id-ea
> > I think the IWAD project should be designed for Heretic since it provides
> > more possibilities for DM play (eg - items, flight, powered-up weapons,
> > look-up/down, etc.) IMO. What does everyone else think?
>
> DOOM is certainly the engine we want to use for this. Heretic just
> doesn't have the same atmosphere. Remember, this is supposed to be a
> continuation of the original theme. Plus, don't you think DOOM deserves it?
>
Heretic could easily be made to look like Doom...well, with a little work..
- ------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
- ---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
------------------------------
From: adu@freenet.vcu.edu (Andrew Du)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 21:41:22 -0500
Subject: together.net
together.net web pages don't work. I keep getting a "not
found" and a no access response.
- --
******************************************************************
TTTTTTT DDDD MM MM
T h eee D D U U M M M M aaaa nnnn
T hhh e eee D D U U M M M a a n n
------------------------------
From: Ian Springer <ips@romulus.rutgers.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 22:24:33 EST
Subject: Re: id-ea
> On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Enigma wrote:
>
> > > I think the IWAD project should be designed for Heretic since it provides
> > > more possibilities for DM play (eg - items, flight, powered-up weapons,
> > > look-up/down, etc.) IMO. What does everyone else think?
> >
> > DOOM is certainly the engine we want to use for this. Heretic just
> > doesn't have the same atmosphere. Remember, this is supposed to be a
> > continuation of the original theme. Plus, don't you think DOOM deserves it?
> >
>
> Remember here that we're (well, I'm not in the project, but nevertheless)
> we're talking a whole new game here. We can't use Doom textures anyway,
> since id's got the copyright on 'em, so if we're re-drawing all the
> walls, monsters, objects, fonts, sprites etc, and doing new music and
> sound, why not use the extended engine of Heretic. ONly problems I can
> see are the fact that not everybody has registered Htic (I know I
> haven't) and the fact that we don't have as much experience with the engine.
>
> /ads@netcom.com
> [LC/Cardy/Kilwren/Cardenyl
> \PASO/Paradigm/Storm
> ---------------------------->
> You could get a new lease on life -- if only you didn't need the first
> and last month in advance.
>
>
the way I see it, there are only two disadvantages to Heretic:
1) not as many people have it, and those who don't have a copy would have to pay for it
(I don't see this as a big problem - I think it's a great game and
well worth the $$$, and I think we should all help support iD as
much as possible)
2) it can be argued that the weapons are not as good for DeathMatch
(but even if they're not quite as good, which is all personal opinion
and habit anyway, the ability to use the various items more than
compensates - esp. the wings and the ovum)
So, again, I think we should work with the Heretic engine..
- ------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
- ---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
------------------------------
From: Ian Springer <ips@romulus.rutgers.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 22:27:43 EST
Subject: Re: id-ea
>
>
> On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Ian Springer wrote:
>
> > > On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Shriker wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, 21 Feb 95 1:05:40 EST Ian Springer said:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > <<snip>>
> > > >
> > > > >I think the IWAD project should be designed for Heretic since it provides
> > > > >more possibilities for DM play (eg - items, flight, powered-up weapons,
> > > > >look-up/down, etc.) IMO. What does everyone else think?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
> > > > > ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
> > > > > ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
> > > > >---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
> > > >
> > >
> > > >From initial playing of Heretic for Deathmatch, it doesn't seem as good
> > > as Doom. So designing levels for that might be a waste of time. Of course
> > > this is just my opinion, maybe i've just got so used to playing Doom in
> > > DM that nothing else seems that good, or maybe because the Heretic levels
> > > just aren't that good for DM play and need some specifically designed
> > > levels......
> > >
> > > Although the ability to fly in Heretic is COOL for DM.
> > >
> >
> > the only good DM level that comes with Heretic is E1M1, but there are a few
> > fun PWAD's out...it has more potential than Doom, and technically it could be
> > made to look just like Doom.
> >
> >
> > ------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
> > ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
> > ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
> > ---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
>
>
>
> Yeah, but in my opinion, you can't get the same feeling in Heretic that
> you do in DOOM(2) while playing deathmatch. There's an unprecedented
> feeling of joy and a rush of testosterone when you blow someone away with
> a double barreled shotgun, that you simply can't get with some fantasy
> weapon. Also, the textures in Heretic are extremely weak, and the
> characters blend into the walls.
>
> Jordan Feinman System Operator
> Global One, Inc. (518) 452-1465 v
> jordanf@globalone.net (518) 452-1234 d
>
>
believe me, I know what you mean (the super shotgun is my favorite DM weapon), but again I think
the advantages of Heretic outweigh the disadvantages by alot...furthermore, the WAD will be
mainly designed for single-play anyway (although I think there should be 3 or 4 levels
well-suited for DM)...and as far as the textures, I personally like the textures in Heretic alot,
but they will all be changed anyway, so it doesn't really matter....
- ------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
- ---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
------------------------------
From: Ian Springer <ips@romulus.rutgers.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 22:28:38 EST
Subject: Re: id-ea
>
>
> On 21 Feb 1995 jdh15@po.cwru.edu wrote:
>
> > A while ago I started to write DFH: DOOM for Heretic, which was a
> > HHE patch and a PWAD with lotsa sprites to do exactly what you
> > suggested. I gave up, though, because a lot of the monsters can't
> > be duplicated. There is nothing in Heretic that duplicates an
> > Archvile's attack or the Revenant's heat-seeking missiles. (I know
> > YOU have heat seekers, but no monster does) For that matter, there
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Is this true? I know many a time when playing Heretic, those damn yellow
> mummy looking guys shoot flamming skulls at me that chase me all around
> the board. Around corners, down hallways, you name it.
>
>
>
>
You are quite correct. :)
- ------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
- ---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
------------------------------
From: Peter Fleming <pfleming@eros.otago.ac.nz>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:16:37 +1300 (NZDT)
Subject: Re: id-ea
Howdy,
My votes...
Theme.... Non sequential, outdoor/urban military style with an empahsis
on replay value, and quick Tactical Strategic decsions.
New Sprites.... use digital camera's to get (the 60 odd) pictures of real
people, dressed as soldiers etc
Name... Ghostown or Voodoo
Engine.... Doom II, because it has a big monster list with many useful
Dehackable abilities
- -banjo
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 23:29:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: id-ea
> New Sprites.... use digital camera's to get (the 60 odd) pictures of real
> people, dressed as soldiers etc
Hmmm, then they might end up looking like ROTT enemies though. yick.
> Engine.... Doom II, because it has a big monster list with many useful
> Dehackable abilities
Ah, but that's the good part... with DeHackEd (or without DeHackEd for
that matter) we can use all the Doom 2 monsters IN DOOM 1. Which means
there is really no technical difference between Doom 1 and 2 if this WAD
will really replace as much as we plan. However, then we would need new
sprites for every single Doom 2 monster (that we plan on using), and also
for the DB shotgun.
As for Doom vs. Heretic, I'd say stick with Doom. Heretic does have
more to offer, but there are a few reasons not to use it. Mainly, that
not nearly as many people have Heretic as have Doom (since Doom has a 13
month head start), and that the weapons tend to suck in Heretic (yes,
they're cool weapons to play with, but they don't have the cold-metal
kill-em-all feel of the Doom weapons). Also, not nearly as much
exploration has been done with Heretic, in manipulation of sky textures
for example, or linedef info. Etc etc.
Greg
------------------------------
From: thldrmn@sam.neosoft.com (Ty Halderman)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 22:34:28 -0600
Subject: TheWad game platform
>On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Enigma wrote:
>
[Snip]
>Remember here that we're (well, I'm not in the project, but nevertheless)
>we're talking a whole new game here. We can't use Doom textures anyway,
>since id's got the copyright on 'em, so if we're re-drawing all the
>walls, monsters, objects, fonts, sprites etc, and doing new music and
>sound, why not use the extended engine of Heretic. ONly problems I can
>see are the fact that not everybody has registered Htic (I know I
>haven't) and the fact that we don't have as much experience with the engine.
Erm, I didn't really hear that we were talking a whole new game. I know we
have discussed new graphics and such, and probably some new sprites, but it
doesn't have to be a new game, unrecognizable as Doom anymore. What the
world needs is a bunch of really good levels, with a coherent theme, and
excellent design and implementation.
If we are just doing this for ourselves, fine, but as I read this (and as I
hope it is) we are doing this for public consumption. We are already having
"no Doom2--not everyone has bought it" complaints--surely you don't think
most of the id-gorging public has registered Heretic?!
I personally think Doom2 is the best overall platform. I personally find
that the look up & down and flying in Heretic is distracting from the main
goal, which is entertainment-with-adrenalin. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing
32 new levels done with exactly the same kit we get with Doom2. It isn't
the new stuff that really sets a level apart but the thought and playability
design. Novelty wears thin quickly.
My $/50.
=-Ty Halderman ( thldrmn@sam.neosoft.com )
"There I stood, mesmerized, like a lemming admiring the sea..."
------------------------------
From: Casey Robinson <ogiswise@rahul.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 20:35:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: The Wad - Here we go!
On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, ulasieben wrote:
> >
> >MAIL DELETED BECAUSE OF LACK OF DISK SPACE
> >
> >
> What's going on here?!? Another message deleted.
> Is anyone else having this problem, or is it just
> my crappy server? Either way, please repost. Thanx.
> -- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
I think it's Tom's crappy server ;)
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 23:36:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: "The WAD" Doom2 only?
> Now if "The WAD" is going to replace any DOOM2 lump with something
> new, it will work for DOOM2.EXE as well as DOOM.EXE. Unfortunately
> it will work with the shareware version as well, as long as you don't
> find something that's present in DOOM2.WAD and DOOM.WAD both, but
> missing in DOOM1.WAD... now here's the real problem.
I believe the plasma rifle or BFG will do just fine... just place one
so that the player can't see/find it (after all, we don't wanna give them
the BFG at the start of level 1, do we?), but so that Doom still tries
to load the sprites right at the start of the level. Shareware = crash.
Greg
------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 22 Feb 1995 05:02:43 GMT
Subject: Re: id-ea
> > A while ago I started to write DFH: DOOM for Heretic, which was a
> > HHE patch and a PWAD with lotsa sprites to do exactly what you
> > suggested. I gave up, though, because a lot of the monsters can't
> > be duplicated. There is nothing in Heretic that duplicates an
> > Archvile's attack or the Revenant's heat-seeking missiles. (I know
> > YOU have heat seekers, but no monster does) For that matter, there
>
> Is this true? I know many a time when playing Heretic, those damn yellow
> mummy looking guys shoot flamming skulls at me that chase me all around
> the board. Around corners, down hallways, you name it.
oops.
you are 100% correct, I was wrongola.
I thought of this a little while later (while I was being chased by
a damn yellow skull thing, but it was too late.
But my original point still holds (I think?) that the monsters in
DOOM ][ outnumber and are more complex than the ones from heretic.
- -j
/
The Home Page of Deth /
http://maniac.cwru.edu/~deth/ /
/
Feel the Dragon's Fire... /
/
/
/ J e r e m y H o l l a n d
============================| C a s e W e s t e r n R e s e r v e
\ j d h 1 5 @ p o . c w r u . e d u
\
\
\
\
\
\
\
\
------------------------------
From: Casey Robinson <ogiswise@rahul.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 21:04:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: That WAD thang...
On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Enigma wrote:
> > 1. Decide on theme, level types, overall stuff
> > 2. Get textures developed (we gotta know what new textures there are
> > before we can do new levels)
> > 3. Farm out levels, preferably 1 or 2 to a person. These can all be
> > done simultaneously (pretty much), along with...
> > 4. New monsters/sprites. And a DeHackEd patch (if any).
I would like to have atleast a vauge Idea of what the monsters
will look like. 1 frame before the levels are made would probably be
enough. And knowing what the Hacks are going to be would help make
balanced levels. (ex. you put a tempting rocket launcher or a difficut to
reach place, and you need to do tricky/cool stuff to get it, but the
rocket launcher is changed so it's not worth the trouble the player went
through to get it.)
> > 5. Playtest extensively, and release!
>
------------------------------
From: "Kram Llens" <MSNELL@kitsune.art.rmit.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:02:29 EST-10
Subject: Re: id-ea
> From: Ian Springer <ips@romulus.rutgers.edu>
> > On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Enigma wrote:
> >
> > > > I think the IWAD project should be designed for Heretic since it provides
> > > > more possibilities for DM play (eg - items, flight, powered-up weapons,
> > > > look-up/down, etc.) IMO. What does everyone else think?
> > >
> > > DOOM is certainly the engine we want to use for this. Heretic just
> > > doesn't have the same atmosphere. Remember, this is supposed to be a
> > > continuation of the original theme. Plus, don't you think DOOM deserves it?
> > >
> >
> > Remember here that we're (well, I'm not in the project, but nevertheless)
> > we're talking a whole new game here. We can't use Doom textures anyway,
> > since id's got the copyright on 'em, so if we're re-drawing all the
> > walls, monsters, objects, fonts, sprites etc, and doing new music and
> > sound, why not use the extended engine of Heretic. ONly problems I can
> > see are the fact that not everybody has registered Htic (I know I
> > haven't) and the fact that we don't have as much experience with the engine.
> >
>
> the way I see it, there are only two disadvantages to Heretic:
>
> 1) not as many people have it, and those who don't have a copy would have to pay for it
> (I don't see this as a big problem - I think it's a great game and
> well worth the $$$, and I think we should all help support iD as
> much as possible)
It wont be available in Australia for 2-3 months i believe.
( I went into a shop to ask about it, and they said they might have
the s\ware before Feb... I said I'd been playing it for 1 1/2
months.) They said OH.
> 2) it can be argued that the weapons are not as good for DeathMatch
> (but even if they're not quite as good, which is all personal opinion
> and habit anyway, the ability to use the various items more than
> compensates - esp. the wings and the ovum)
Aren't we gonna redesign the weapons anyway?
>
> So, again, I think we should work with the Heretic engine..
>
Personally i'm in favour of the doom engine. For one thing, it
supports PC Speaker, which you need for Deathmatch in schools (no
Sound Cards), and for another, The players in DM Heretic are really
hard to see...(i realise this could be fixed by re-doing these
sprites as well). And again, the monsters in doom/II are better too.
IMHO
Kram
PS I'm really soory, the RCPT war was my fault, all flames to me or
/dev/null
Kram_Llens@rmit.edu.au RMIT, Melbourne, Australia
Ph (03) 660 5378 Fax (03) 660 5342
"I bought some dehydrated water, but I don't
know what to add to it" -Steven Wright
------------------------------
From: John Minadeo <jminadeo@cybercon.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 00:41:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Re: id-ea
> I agree. Not to rag on any existing levels, but It is hard to convert
> levels that already exist. BTW, we can use anybody that can do anything!
> We'll need level editors, texture editors, sound people, TONS of playtesters,
> and probably a few coordinators to keep the project moving. I think it'd
> be cool if we got some known people to help (Steve McCrea sp? Richard R. Ward,
> etc...) Also, we need a common forum for discussion. This list really isn't
> appropriate, I think, because not everyone would be interested. Just my $.02
> on the project.
> -- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
>
I'd be willing to help out but aside from playtesting the only thing I
can think that I can offer is a friend of mine has and Amiga 4000 with a
VideoToaster 4000. That is one hell of a modeller and I would think that
it isn't a problem to render to frames and port the pics to whatever
system. Could come up with some intersting monsters and or weapons or
whatever. Let me know! I know he'd be willing to donate the time to work
on his toaster. Incidentally, this needs to become another mailing list
so we don't clutter up the wad editing list...
-jminadeo
A little nobody in a Sea of
nobodies... (No offense to anyone.)
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 01:22:22 -0500
Subject: Re: together.net
>
>
>together.net web pages don't work. I keep getting a "not
>found" and a no access response.
>
Give me a chance!! My message said that they would be up sometime on
wednesday, and it's only been wednesday for an hour and a half at the time I
got your message. There is a page there now, but I have to call Together
Internet Services to see why I can't access it. It's good to see that my
pages will be read, though!
Everyone remember to keep sending me ideas for a name for our wad. The ones
I have so far will be up on the web page tomorrow nite if all goes well at
the server. New ones will be up within 12 hours of it's receipt in my
mailbox.
Nobody has mentioned how long they think I should take ideas on the name
until we call for a vote. I think I should take name ideas for a week.
- -Ross
------------------------------
From: TWM2029@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 02:12:02 -0500
Subject: Re: The Wad - Here we go!
> >
>> >MAIL DELETED BECAUSE OF LACK OF DISK SPACE
>> >
>> >
>> What's going on here?!? Another message deleted.
>> Is anyone else having this problem, or is it just
>> my crappy server? Either way, please repost. Thanx.
>> -- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
> I think it's Tom's crappy server ;)
It sure as hell is, and to think, I pay for this!! Anybody have any good
internet suggestions, I want off this AOL hell!!!!
Tom
------------------------------
From: D.Casali@rea0808.wins.icl.co.uk
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 08:26:14 +0000
Subject: RE: Re: The Wad - Here we go!
Mail also deleted due to lack of disk space here! DC
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #175
**********************************
