Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 153
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #153
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Saturday, 11 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 153
Re: Top Ten Tips (longish)
Re: Top Ten Tips (longish)
Re: Top Ten Tips (longish)
Re: Top Ten Tips (longish)
Answer: What is a HOM.
Re: Answer: What is a HOM.
Doom ][ Doors...
What are considered the best of editors?
Re: Top Ten Tips (longish)
Re: What are considered the best of editors?
Floor Texture Problem
Re: What are considered the best of editors?
Re: Doom ][ Doors...
Re: What are considered the best of editors?
Re: What are considered the best of editors?
Re: Answer: What is a HOM.
Re: Floor Texture Problem
Re: What are considered the best of editors?
Re: Coordinate problems
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jake@aloha.net (jacob buckley-fortin)
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 19:15:24 -1000
Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips (longish)
>
>> > "I believe ID's levels are HOM-free except for one spot."
>>
>> The place in question is on E1M1, at the zig-zag path, with the imps on
>> the high platform. You need to be *real* accurate to find it, since it
>> is caused by a minute bug in their node-builder.
>
>Wow. I have played E1M1 approx. 850,027,472 times, and have never
>noticed a HOM. I think "minute" was indeed the correct word here.
actually, i played E1M1 about 890,009,873 times and every SINGLE TIME have
looked at the imp, seen the sliver of HOM, and groaned.
hehe...i don't think it was ever corrected...and i don't think it should be.
It reminds me that the id programmers are guys just like us....their tools
are probably worse than ours.
jake
------------------------------
From: David Damerell <djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 05:30:40 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips (longish)
On Thu, 9 Feb 1995, Madis Remmik wrote:
> > > > "I believe ID's levels are HOM-free except for one spot."
> > > The place in question is on E1M1, at the zig-zag path, with the imps on
> > > the high platform. You need to be *real* accurate to find it, since it
> > > is caused by a minute bug in their node-builder.
> > Wow. I have played E1M1 approx. 850,027,472 times, and have never
> > noticed a HOM. I think "minute" was indeed the correct word here.
> > p.s., which is correct, "a" HOM or "an" HOM.
> I agree that there is no HOM at E1M1.
While there is an error on E1M1 (yes, there is), it's not a HOM. It's an
independant engine bug.
> But what about E1M6?The one that has
> a lot outdoor action?That level is much slower than any other,and I think
> this is caused by very tiny HOMs,which are not visible because of VGA's
> poor resolution.It's very possible that there are sometimes more than
> 16 2-sided linedefs visible in that kind of levels.
It's not 16 2S linedefs - that's an ollld myth. It's 128 lines of any
kind in >= 1.2, and 192 in 1.666, or 1 line with a bad node builder...
This can be easily tested in the editor of your choice (tm) by drawing
out a room with 18 2S lines in and seeing what happens.
David Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk Trinity, Cambridge
WOODHAL2.WAD ftpable. CUWoCS President. METLMAZE.WAD sometime soonish.
|___| Loneliness pours over you: Emptiness can pull you through. |___|
| | | Your mother's eyes, from your eyes, cry to me... Queen, '39. | | |
------------------------------
From: David Damerell <djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 05:34:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips (longish)
On Thu, 9 Feb 1995 tedv@geom.umn.edu wrote:
> Oh, just for kicks, go to E2M9 and look at the door that houses the yellow
> key. Watch the lower texture behind the door as it opens. Very funky. I
> don't know what causes this one. Of course, I haven't looked too hard either.
Sheesh. Every time I see that I decide I didn't see anything, now it
turns out it is there...
David Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk Trinity, Cambridge
WOODHAL2.WAD ftpable. CUWoCS President. METLMAZE.WAD sometime soonish.
|___| Loneliness pours over you: Emptiness can pull you through. |___|
| | | Your mother's eyes, from your eyes, cry to me... Queen, '39. | | |
------------------------------
From: ah289@freenet.carleton.ca (Jonathan Mavor)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 00:37:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips (longish)
>
>>
>>> > "I believe ID's levels are HOM-free except for one spot."
>>>
>>> The place in question is on E1M1, at the zig-zag path, with the imps on
>>> the high platform. You need to be *real* accurate to find it, since it
>>> is caused by a minute bug in their node-builder.
>>
>>Wow. I have played E1M1 approx. 850,027,472 times, and have never
>>noticed a HOM. I think "minute" was indeed the correct word here.
>
>actually, i played E1M1 about 890,009,873 times and every SINGLE TIME have
>looked at the imp, seen the sliver of HOM, and groaned.
>
>hehe...i don't think it was ever corrected...and i don't think it should be.
>It reminds me that the id programmers are guys just like us....their tools
>are probably worse than ours.
>
>jake
>
>
>
Apparently someone found the bug in IDBSP too. Basically
had to do with precision in the node builder. BTW, I have noticed
other HOM's in E1M8 and in another level (forget which one). The
one in E1M8 was hard to get but HUGE!
L8r,
Jon
- --
==== Jonathan Mavor [DP] ==== X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
= ah289@Freenet.Carleton.Ca = X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
------------------------------
From: Jens Hedegaard Hykkelbjerg <hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:08:52 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Answer: What is a HOM.
> what is a HOM? It sounds like some kind of messup in the display or
> something
Let me say at once that I think questions starting with
"What is a ..."
should be sent to the beginners corner
(Steve Benner, Email:S.Benner.Lancaster.ac.uk)
then he can decide if it's appropiate for the list.
But the answer to you question is that you are quite right.
The HOM is a messup of the DOOM graphics. You will normally find
a HOM if you forget to place textures where the DOOM engine really
needs them. (Like on the normals of one sided walls)
- Jens Hykkelbjerg
- --
Jens Hykkelbjerg | "Civilisation began with the felling
Aarhus Universitet | of the first tree; and, it will end
Email: hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk | with the felling of the last."
WWW: http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/index.html
------------------------------
From: Herve Benvel <Herve.Benvel@inria.fr>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:33:06 +0100
Subject: Re: Answer: What is a HOM.
Jens said:
|> Let me say at once that I think questions starting with
|> "What is a ..."
|> should be sent to the beginners corner
|> (Steve Benner, Email:S.Benner.Lancaster.ac.uk)
|> then he can decide if it's appropiate for the list.
What about posting the Designer's FAQ to this list again?
This won't do any harm, and I'm sure many of the new readers
will benefit from it... I have an old version handy (errr,
dated some times around Sept. 1994).
Does anybody have the latest available for posting?
|> The HOM is a messup of the DOOM graphics. You will normally find
In two words, HOM = Hall of Mirrors :-)
Cordialement/Cordially,
Herve Benvel
Bureau 1309a, Bat. 13 Tel [*]: 39635304
INRIA Rocquencourt, BP 105 Fax [*]: 39635330
78153 Le Chesnay Cedex, France [*] Foreign: +33-1, Province : +16-1
- ----
Euro on #doom (irc)
http://www-rocq.inria.fr/~benvel
Herve.Benvel@inria.fr, Herve.Benvel@litp.ibp.fr
------------------------------
From: John Minadeo <jminadeo@cybercon.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 06:26:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Doom ][ Doors...
OK, I have a doom 2 editing question... I've just recently started doing
this so bear with me... From what I can tell, doors move down into the
floor so I guess my question is, do I have to make a sector from 2 lines,
one being a door texture and impassible and the other a no texture
passible one? This little problem is quickly becoming one hell of
headache... Thus far the best I can do is to get an entire (small) levels
cieling to drop when I hit where the door should be...
jminadeo@cybercon.com
------------------------------
From: M&Ms <millerm@uwwvax.uww.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 07:12:05 CST
Subject: What are considered the best of editors?
Since there are a lot of util writers on this list, could you all give me
(and the list) your top 3 favorites for the different utilities....
Sound utility
Level design utility
Graphic Utility
Deu, DMDEEP, DMCad, DCK, WADED, DMGRAPH, DMAUD, etc.? It can be DOS,
Win, or OS2 based. I'm going to put some notes on my BBS to get a collection
of people together to do a theme (I know some of my users are artistic) and
would like to put the diff editors in an area for them to download.
Oh, I suppose you can also put YOUR editor on the top of the list but that
is entirely up to you and at your discretion. 8-)
_ o o | Michael(M&M's)(millerm@uwwvax.uww.edu)(TEAM OS2) | _ _ o o
\/o\ o o | Working? at UW-Whitewater; Ren- SysSnot HHJJ BBS | \/o\o\ o
/\_/ | (414-699-5560; 9am-2am CST; VBBS/2) | /\_/_/
------------------------------
From: Steve McCrea <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:51:32 GMT
Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips (longish)
>
>
> > > "I believe ID's levels are HOM-free except for one spot."
> >
> > The place in question is on E1M1, at the zig-zag path, with the imps on
> > the high platform. You need to be *real* accurate to find it, since it
> > is caused by a minute bug in their node-builder.
>
> Wow. I have played E1M1 approx. 850,027,472 times, and have never
> noticed a HOM. I think "minute" was indeed the correct word here.
> :)
>
Probably the reason you didn't notice it is because it's one of those
'slime trails' rather than a proper HOM. There used to be several in
Doom but I haven't looked recently... e.g., E1M6 just after getting
the yellow key and entering the yard; E2M2 outside the room with the
yellow key, and so on.
>
> p.s., which is correct, "a" HOM or "an" HOM.
>
I would say a HOM, an H.O.M.
Steve.
------------------------------
From: Herve Benvel <Herve.Benvel@inria.fr>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 16:19:03 +0100
Subject: Re: What are considered the best of editors?
M&Ms said:
|>
|> Since there are a lot of util writers on this list, could you all give me
|> (and the list) your top 3 favorites for the different utilities....
|>
|> Sound utility
|> Level design utility
|> Graphic Utility
This is totally subjective:
get DeuTex + RMB 2.x + ibdsp + Deu
you can also give a look to the freshly released windows-based WinTex 3.3
Deu and DeuTex can be hard to learn, but once you're used to them,
you'll love them! :)
RMB is a great reject builder...
idbsp is a great node builder...
If you have a clue on more powerful builders, drop me a note,
I'll appreciate !)
Cordialement/Cordially,
Herve Benvel
Bureau 1309a, Bat. 13 Tel [*]: 39635304
INRIA Rocquencourt, BP 105 Fax [*]: 39635330
78153 Le Chesnay Cedex, France [*] Foreign: +33-1, Province : +16-1
- ----
http://www-rocq.inria.fr/~benvel
Herve.Benvel@inria.fr, Herve.Benvel@litp.ibp.fr
------------------------------
From: nelson@cthulhu (Brian Nelson)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 10:28:49 EDT
Subject: Floor Texture Problem
I think I remember seeing how to fix this somewhere, but I can't
remember for the life of me...
In two separate wads, one designed by me and the other by a friend,
we have adjacent sectors that have very different floor heights.
Mine: His:
__________________ ___________
| _____ | |B | |
| / \ | |____| |
| | A | | | A |
| \_____/ B | | |
|__________________| |______|
Now, in both of these, the floor of sector A is really high, ~1000 units
above the floor of sector B. In both of these, when playing, if I
stand on the edge of A, I can get some weird "static" on the screen. What
it looks like to me is the floor texture of B viewed from far away, so it's
just sort of scrambled. It comes in as a line from the side of the screen,
advances across the display as I move a bit, then will disappear when
I move fully into a sector.
Anyone have any insight into how to fix this?
Thanks.
- --
Brian Nelson nelson@cthulhu.ces.cwru.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is just sudden death overtime and the clock is running.
It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether you win.
If you're not living life on the edge, you're just wasting space.
It can't be one man's obsession if it's not another man's posession.
If we're keeping score, winning -is- the only thing.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:35:57 EST
Subject: Re: What are considered the best of editors?
M&Ms <millerm@uwwvax.uww.edu> ,in message <0098BC3E.133DFC01.2@uwwvax.uww.edu>,
wrote:
> Since there are a lot of util writers on this list, could you all give me
> (and the list) your top 3 favorites for the different utilities....
> Level design utility
1 Purple Frog Mission Editor (ftp.cis.ufl.edu /pub/staff/thoth/doom/pfme/)
2 DEU 5.3 (4-month vaporware :)
> It can be DOS,
> Win, or OS2 based.
What's wrong with Linux/X?
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:33:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Doom ][ Doors...
> OK, I have a doom 2 editing question... I've just recently started doing
> this so bear with me... From what I can tell, doors move down into the
> floor so I guess my question is, do I have to make a sector from 2 lines,
> one being a door texture and impassible and the other a no texture
> passible one? This little problem is quickly becoming one hell of
> headache... Thus far the best I can do is to get an entire (small) levels
> cieling to drop when I hit where the door should be...
Once again, this could be sent to the help corner (I forget the
address, it was just posted a message or two back). But I'll answer.
I think there could be one of two problems, both with the actual line
that you hit to open the door. One is that maybe that line is "flipped"
the wrong way, so that it thinks that the room you're in is the "door".
Theother is that perhaps you've got the "Switch" type door, which you
don't want, you want a normal door type. The quickie door picture:
- -------+-----+--------
| |
| |
A --| B |-- C
| |
| |
- -------+-----+--------
Line 1 ^ ^ Line 2
OK, B is the door sector, A and C are normal rooms. Start off with B
having a floor and ceiling height both equal to 0. A and C are normal,
i.e. floor = 0, ceiling = whatever. Both line 1 and line 2 need to have
their first sidedef pointing out from the door (usually that's
represented by a little line pointing out from line 1 and 2). Then edit
the type of line 1 and 2 to be "DR Open Door" or "DR Open door (closes
after 6 seconds)" or whatever your editor calls it. Be sure to set an
Upper texture for both sides of the door (something like BIGDOOR1), and
remove any Normal or Lower texture on both sides of door. Viola! You
should have a door.
Refer to the first door on E1M1 (or MAP01) for a concrete example of a
working door.
Greg
------------------------------
From: Ken Tittle <kenti@microsoft.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 11:04:47 TZ
Subject: Re: What are considered the best of editors?
Just a quick question from a stupid user <g>
I thought Linux was a free O/S kinda like FreeBSD? If so, what FTP
site could I find it? Does the X mean X-Windowsn clone, and would that
also be available free? I've got FreeBSD installed, but just wanted to
check other stuff out...
- --- Why? Because it's there. ---
Thanx for the info,
- -= Ken =-
- ----------
| From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
| To: <doom-editing@nvg.unit.no>
| Subject: Re: What are considered the best of editors?
| Date: Friday, February 10, 1995 10:35AM
|
| M&Ms <millerm@uwwvax.uww.edu> ,in message
<0098BC3E.133DFC01.2@uwwvax.uww.edu>,
| wrote:
|
| > Since there are a lot of util writers on this list, could you all give me
| > (and the list) your top 3 favorites for the different utilities....
|
| > Level design utility
|
| 1 Purple Frog Mission Editor (ftp.cis.ufl.edu /pub/staff/thoth/doom/pfme/)
| 2 DEU 5.3 (4-month vaporware :)
|
| > It can be DOS,
| > Win, or OS2 based.
|
| What's wrong with Linux/X?
|
|
------------------------------
From: Matthew Miller <rmiller@infinet.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 16:02:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: What are considered the best of editors?
On Fri, 10 Feb 1995, Herve Benvel wrote:
> This is totally subjective:
>
> get DeuTex + RMB 2.x + ibdsp + Deu
> you can also give a look to the freshly released windows-based WinTex 3.3
>
> Deu and DeuTex can be hard to learn, but once you're used to them,
> you'll love them! :)
>
> RMB is a great reject builder...
> idbsp is a great node builder...
Do you know where I can find RMB?
Matthew Miller -- rmiller@infinet.com
------------------------------
From: at455@freenet.carleton.ca (Colin Pascal)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 16:07:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Answer: What is a HOM.
>
I encountered this different error, perhaps somebody knws what it is....
When I crossed a certain area (Which is a kine between 2 different
sectores) for one tiny little moment, the screen goes all fuzzy brown, but
only when I'm on this exact spot of the line and if I'm facing the right
direction.
Anyone have any ideas?
Colin.
- --
Anarchy is a dream of willful order. It is a dream which will only be
attained when mankind, too, is perfect.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Miller <rmiller@infinet.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 16:06:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Floor Texture Problem
On Fri, 10 Feb 1995, Brian Nelson wrote:
> In two separate wads, one designed by me and the other by a friend,
> we have adjacent sectors that have very different floor heights.
[ ASCII art snipped ]
> Now, in both of these, the floor of sector A is really high, ~1000 units
> above the floor of sector B. In both of these, when playing, if I
> stand on the edge of A, I can get some weird "static" on the screen. What
> it looks like to me is the floor texture of B viewed from far away, so it's
> just sort of scrambled. It comes in as a line from the side of the screen,
> advances across the display as I move a bit, then will disappear when
> I move fully into a sector.
What version of Doom are you using? If you're using version 1.2, try
upgrading to 1.6(66) or newer. Version 1.2 can't handle drastic floor-
and ceiling-height differences.
If you *are* using version 1.6 or newer, I'm afraid I haven't got a clue...
Matthew Miller -- rmiller@infinet.com
------------------------------
From: Madis Remmik <h2madis@siil.edu.ee>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 23:46:56 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Re: What are considered the best of editors?
>
> Just a quick question from a stupid user <g>
>
> I thought Linux was a free O/S kinda like FreeBSD? If so, what FTP
> site could I find it? Does the X mean X-Windowsn clone, and would that
> also be available free? I've got FreeBSD installed, but just wanted to
> check other stuff out...
>
> --- Why? Because it's there. ---
> Thanx for the info,
> -= Ken =-
> ----------
The official Linux site is nic.funet.fi
Madis Remmik (h2madis@siil.edu.ee)
------------------------------
From: "Jason Hoffoss" <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 19:39:34 CST
Subject: Re: Coordinate problems
On Wed, 28 Dec 1994 14:30:24 -0600,
Wade Williams <wwilliams@mail.state.tn.us> wrote:
>I'd like to hear some comments from some of you about the relationship of
>the DOOM coordinate space to the physical device coordinate space.
>
>I'm working on a WAD editor for Macintosh since Macintosh DOOM will be
>able to use PC WADs when it is released.
>
>The Macintosh supports the theoretical limit of DOOM maps (-32768 to
>32767) and it'd be wonderful to allow maps to be that large.
>Unfortunately, some simple math tells us that a coordinate space that
>large which is related to a pixel image buffer would require over a gig of
>memory just to hold the screen buffer (at 8-bit color).
>
>I assume the situation is no different on the PC. So, obviously, the map
>coordinate system cannot be related to an image buffer. So my questions
>are:
>
>A) What strategies do you use for displaying an image which is far too
>large to fit in an image buffer. Obviously you've got to only display a
>portion at a time, but I'd like to hear how some others have done it.
>
>B) What techniques have you used for zooming/unzooming?
>
>Any thoughts on the above subjects greatly appreciated.
Hmm, this is old as hell now, but I'll donate any of my advice if you want
it. Actually, I have a friend who was thinking about doing a Doom editor
for the mac as well, since he's got a mac. Actually, he was going to port
my editor (DMapEdit) to the mac. He's been pretty busy lately, though,
and I dunno if he's even still interested. Anyway, I've done just about
everything when it comes to code for a Doom map editor, so ask away if you
have any questions about anything. Later..
-Jason
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #153
**********************************
