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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 154
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #154
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Sunday, 12 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 154
Re: Deathmatch Level Testing..
Re: Deathmatch Level Testing..
Re: Doom ][ Doors...
Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
Re: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
Re: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
About HOM
Re: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
Re: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
Re: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
Re: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
Re: About HOM
Re: About HOM
Re: What are considered the best of editors?
DEU 5.3 (sorry)
Re: DEU 5.3 (sorry)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stephen Gates <skg8310@email.unc.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 21:21:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Deathmatch Level Testing..
Once again, fearing being lynched but brave nonetheless, I ask, "how do
you unsubcribe from this?"
------------------------------
From: ffjjd@aurora.alaska.edu
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 18:03:49 +0000
Subject: Re: Deathmatch Level Testing..
>Reply-To: doom-editing@NVG.UNIT.NO
>
>Once again, fearing being lynched but brave nonetheless, I ask, "how do
>you unsubcribe from this?"
Even better information. Here is the message I got when I originally
subscribed to the list. Just replace my address with yours and it should
work. If it doesn't then I didn't tell you any of this. :)
- ---------
Welcome to the doom-editing mailing list!
If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
you can send mail to "Majordomo@nvg.unit.no" with the following command
in the body of your email message:
unsubscribe doom-editing ffjjd@aurora.alaska.edu
- ---------
Good luck.
Clint
------------------------------
From: David Damerell <djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 06:00:32 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Doom ][ Doors...
On Fri, 10 Feb 1995, John Minadeo wrote:
> OK, I have a doom 2 editing question... I've just recently started doing
> this so bear with me... From what I can tell, doors move down into the
> floor so I guess my question is, do I have to make a sector from 2 lines,
> one being a door texture and impassible and the other a no texture
> passible one? This little problem is quickly becoming one hell of
> headache... Thus far the best I can do is to get an entire (small) levels
> cieling to drop when I hit where the door should be...
Erm, no. What you need is a layout like this...
______________ _________________
| | | |
| |_ _ _| |
| | | | | |
| Sector 1 |3|4|5| Sector 2 |
| |_|_|_| |
| | | |
|____________| |_______________|
Sectors 1 and 2 are your rooms, or whatever. Sectors 3 and 5 are only
necessary if the rooms have higher ceilings than the door itself -
otherwise they can be eliminated. If they are present then they should
have a ceiling height equal to the height of the door - this will
necessitate upper textures on the linedefs between 1 and 3, and 2 and 5.
Sector 4 is the door, and its ceiling height should be equal to the floor
height. The 2 sided linedefs that make up the edges of sector 4 should
have their first sidedefs facing outwards (towards sectors 3 and 5), and
the first sidedefs will need upper door textures. You will need no normal
textures at all, and all two-sided lines should be passible. Then give
the lines between 3 and 4 and 4 and 5 a type of DR Open Door. That should
do the trick.
David Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk Trinity, Cambridge
WOODHAL2.WAD ftpable. CUWoCS President. METLMAZE.WAD sometime soonish.
|___| Loneliness pours over you: Emptiness can pull you through. |___|
| | | Your mother's eyes, from your eyes, cry to me... Queen, '39. | | |
------------------------------
From: Jim Elson <jlelson@utdallas.edu>
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 01:11:56 -0600
Subject: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
I'm at something of a loss. I'm in the middle of converting
a 3 episode Doom wad to Doom 2. (Lot's of graphic redefintions
and so forth: Deutex to the rescue.)
What I haven't figured out is how to deal with the secret levels. In
one of my tests: using the "exit to level 9" on Map03 doesn't take
me to Map09, but back to Map01. I notice that on id's Map31,
the exit to the supersecret level, Map32, uses "exit to level 9".
Here's my current hypothesis. The secret level exit must be on the
same level as id's (I forget which level it is) and you can have
only two secret levels which must be Map31 and Map32. Is there
anything to this, or am I completely off-base? Advice would be
greatly appreciated. Thanks
- --Jim
============================================================================
James L Elson: |<o When you stare into the abyss too long o>|
School of Arts & Humanities |<o the abyss stares back into you. o>|
University of Texas-Dallas | --Nietzsche-- |
------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 11 Feb 1995 13:04:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
> What I haven't figured out is how to deal with the secret levels. In
> one of my tests: using the "exit to level 9" on Map03 doesn't take
> me to Map09, but back to Map01. I notice that on id's Map31,
> the exit to the supersecret level, Map32, uses "exit to level 9".
>
> Here's my current hypothesis. The secret level exit must be on the
> same level as id's (I forget which level it is) and you can have
> only two secret levels which must be Map31 and Map32. Is there
> anything to this, or am I completely off-base? Advice would be
> greatly appreciated. Thanks
I think how DOOM handles secret levels is hard-coded into the .EXE.
I wrote several levels for DOOM I, and I tried to include a secret
exit in E3M1, but then, afetr I exitied the secret level, it took me
back to E3M7. It took me back to E3M7 no matter wht level I placed
the secret exit on. I had hoped it would just take me to E3M[x+1]
when I finisehed the secret level, having found the secret exit on
level E3Mx, but that's just bnot the case. I'm not sure about
DOOM II, but I assume it's the same: that after MAP31 or MAP32 you
go back to MAP17 (I think that's the one) no matter what level the
secret exit was on.
- -j
p.s. There's been some discussion here lately about the definition
of a HOM I know what causes a HOM, but why does it happen? i.e.
Why does the DOOM engine draw lots of flashy patterns of things
you've just seen when it can't find a lower texture? Just curious.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -- Jeremy Holland (216) 754-1343 ------------
- ---- jdh15@po.cwru.edu 11349 Juniper Rd. ----------
- ------ Case Western Reserve Sherman House #316 --------
- -------- Cleveland, OH 44106 http://maniac.cwru... ------
- ---------- ...edu/~deth/ ----
- ------------ "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!!" --
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 11:09:41 EST
Subject: Re: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
<jdh15@po.cwru.edu> ,in message <199502111304.IAA05844@slc5.INS.CWRU.Edu>, wrot
e:
> p.s. There's been some discussion here lately about the definition
> of a HOM I know what causes a HOM, but why does it happen? i.e.
> Why does the DOOM engine draw lots of flashy patterns of things
> you've just seen when it can't find a lower texture? Just curious.
It doesn't draw flashy patterns. In fact, it just doesn't draw, and that's
the problem. Whatever was there before stays there. It flashes because
there's some double-buffering going on. Visit the map while a HOM is
on-screen. You'll get bits of the map where it fails to redraw the scene (and
I say it's "a" HOM, because that saves me a keystroke).
------------------------------
From: Matthew Miller <rmiller@infinet.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 13:10:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: About HOM
On 11 Feb 1995 jdh15@po.cwru.edu wrote:
> p.s. There's been some discussion here lately about the definition
> of a HOM I know what causes a HOM, but why does it happen? i.e.
> Why does the DOOM engine draw lots of flashy patterns of things
> you've just seen when it can't find a lower texture? Just curious.
Because it doesn't clear the screen between frames--it just draws new
frames over top of the old ones, and if you forget to include an
important texture, the old frames simply bleed through.
As for why it tends to flicker between two images. Well.
[NOTE: THE FOLLOWING IS NOT VERIFIED, JUST A GUESS ON MY PART.]
If Doom is like a lot of games, it stores two pictures at once.
While it's drawing a frame in area A, it shows you the frame in area B.
Then when it's finished drawing the frame in area A, it switches to
showing that frame while it draws the next frame in area B. The
flickering comes from flashing between two old frames at once--that in
area A and that in area B.
This is *not* a verified fact, it is only my guess. Anyone able
to correct me?
Matthew Miller -- rmiller@infinet.com
------------------------------
From: Jason Hoffoss <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 12:18:40 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
On Sat, 11 Feb 1995, Robert Forsman wrote:
> <jdh15@po.cwru.edu> ,in message <199502111304.IAA05844@slc5.INS.CWRU.Edu>, wrot
> e:
>
> > p.s. There's been some discussion here lately about the definition
> > of a HOM I know what causes a HOM, but why does it happen? i.e.
> > Why does the DOOM engine draw lots of flashy patterns of things
> > you've just seen when it can't find a lower texture? Just curious.
>
> It doesn't draw flashy patterns. In fact, it just doesn't draw, and that's
> the problem. Whatever was there before stays there. It flashes because
> there's some double-buffering going on. Visit the map while a HOM is
> on-screen. You'll get bits of the map where it fails to redraw the scene (and
> I say it's "a" HOM, because that saves me a keystroke).
Personally, I thought the term 'hyper-junk' that was used before the term
'HOM' became popular was a better description. Anyway, Bob is correct.
It's a failure to overwrite what is already there that causes it. Not
double-buffering, though. It's called page-flipping. You draw to one of
two screens (the one not being displayed), and then display that one and
update the other screen. This eliminates flicker. In order to speed up
the game, the doom engine only draws what is needs to. Anywhere it
decides it doesn't need to draw, it leaves at whatever it was. If it has
drawn, what, 256 panels? It stops drawing any others, leaving HOM at the
farther ends of the map. This seems to prove that closer panels are
drawn first, but that may not be so. It may just sort them to the first
256 panels, and draw then either direction. Anyway, if a texture has
holes in it (or no texture) on a 2-sided line, but the 2-sided bit on
that line isn't set, the Doom engine assumes there was a texture on the
line, and doesn't draw anything in the holes. HOM there as well. What
is interesting, though, is leaving off a texture on a lower or upper
texture of a 2-sided line. It fills it in with the floor or ceiling
textures instead of not drawing it. Don't quite see what's fully going
on there, but it appears that all wall panels are drawn first, and the
floor/ceilings are 'flood-filled' into the empty polygons or something.
I'm trying to figure out how id does their rendering, so I can write a
texture-mapped 3d previewer for DMapEdit. If anyone can help me, or
wants to put our heads together on this. let me know. Thanx. Later..
-Jason
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 12:49:40 CST
Subject: Re: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
> > p.s. There's been some discussion here lately about the definition
> > of a HOM I know what causes a HOM, but why does it happen? i.e.
> > Why does the DOOM engine draw lots of flashy patterns of things
> > you've just seen when it can't find a lower texture? Just curious.
>
> It doesn't draw flashy patterns. In fact, it just doesn't draw, and that's
> the problem. Whatever was there before stays there. It flashes because
> there's some double-buffering going on. Visit the map while a HOM is
> on-screen. You'll get bits of the map where it fails to redraw the scene (and
> I say it's "a" HOM, because that saves me a keystroke).
Yes... Another way to show this is to go to an HOM spot (I always read it
aych - oh - emm) and hit TAB so you view the map. Hit TAB again. Presto!
The HOM spot doesn't flicker-- it's just the map. If you slowly turn, then
parts of it flicker and parts of it remain as the map.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: Jim Elson <jlelson@utdallas.edu>
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 13:02:54 -0600
Subject: Re: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
On Sat, 11 Feb 1995 jdh15@po.cwru.edu wrote:
>
> I think how DOOM handles secret levels is hard-coded into the .EXE.
> I wrote several levels for DOOM I, and I tried to include a secret
> exit in E3M1, but then, afetr I exitied the secret level, it took me
> back to E3M7. It took me back to E3M7 no matter wht level I placed
> the secret exit on. I had hoped it would just take me to E3M[x+1]
> when I finisehed the secret level, having found the secret exit on
> level E3Mx, but that's just bnot the case. I'm not sure about
> DOOM II, but I assume it's the same: that after MAP31 or MAP32 you
> go back to MAP17 (I think that's the one) no matter what level the
> secret exit was on.
Thanks for the info.
> p.s. There's been some discussion here lately about the definition
> of a HOM I know what causes a HOM, but why does it happen? i.e.
> Why does the DOOM engine draw lots of flashy patterns of things
> you've just seen when it can't find a lower texture? Just curious.
I'm not sure, but it's not limited to Doom. I've seen a similar thing
in Ultima 8 Pagan. I managed to climb on top of some walls in a
dungeon. Running along the edge of the level, or jumping off it,
results in a HOM effects there too. I suspect the programs reproduce the
last set of images for background once it gets _confused_. Someone
whose looked at the source code couldn't answer this question, but
that's my best guess. :)
============================================================================
James L Elson: |<o When you stare into the abyss too long o>|
School of Arts & Humanities |<o the abyss stares back into you. o>|
University of Texas-Dallas | --Nietzsche-- |
------------------------------
From: Anthony Spataro <ads@netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 11:27:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Wad Conversions: Secret Levels?
Here's my theory:
The Doom engine is based on raycasting. When a ray is cast at the
HOM-affected area, it never gives a return value, and that part of the
screen isn't re-drawn by the renderer. So why does it flash actual, real
pictures of stuff instead of garbage, or nothing? To tell de truth, I
have no idea at present, but it may have something to do with the ray
wrapping around the map, or we may be seeing the engine drawing other
linedefs on the other side of the transparent bit of wall (unlikely).
Perhaps it has something to do with the way Doom updates the screen, if
it updates it using a memory buffer.
/ads@netcom.com
[LC/Cardy/Kilwren/Cardenyl
\PASO/Paradigm/Storm
---------------------------->
What this country needs is a good five cent ANYTHING!
On 11 Feb 1995 jdh15@po.cwru.edu wrote:
> p.s. There's been some discussion here lately about the definition
> of a HOM I know what causes a HOM, but why does it happen? i.e.
> Why does the DOOM engine draw lots of flashy patterns of things
> you've just seen when it can't find a lower texture? Just curious.
------------------------------
From: Nicholas Fenwick <nrf94@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 20:08:06 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: About HOM
Matthew Miller wrote:
> On 11 Feb 1995 jdh15@po.cwru.edu wrote:
> > p.s. There's been some discussion here lately about the definition
> > of a HOM I know what causes a HOM, but why does it happen? i.e.
> > Why does the DOOM engine draw lots of flashy patterns of things
> > you've just seen when it can't find a lower texture? Just curious.
> As for why it tends to flicker between two images. Well.
> [NOTE: THE FOLLOWING IS NOT VERIFIED, JUST A GUESS ON MY PART.]
> If Doom is like a lot of games, it stores two pictures at once.
I'd like to comment here. I understand about double buffering - used
it myself on Arcs and SGIs, but it seems to me that Doom uses about 4-5
separate buffers. I get this notion from watching a HOM (I refuse to use
correct grammar here :) carefully after turning while one is in view and
watching the resultant after-effect. Anyone know how many buffers are
used? And is this a standard graphics mode, or have ID created their
own? I guess this is more of an advanced graphics programmer question
than a Doom editing one, but I feel it's relevant to Doom too. Any
feedback welcome, direct to me if not deemed relevant to this mailing list.
+-----------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| _ _ _ _ ___ Nick Fenwick _ _ | |
| | \| (_)__| |__ | __|__ _ ___ __ _(_)__| |__ | nrf94@ecs.soton.ac.uk |
| | .` | / _| / / | _/ -_) ' \ V V / / _| / / | Computer Science Student |
| |_|\_|_\__|_\_\ |_|\___|_||_\_/\_/|_\__|_\_\ | Southampton University |
| 'Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast' |
+-----------http://whirligig.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~nrf94/cv.html----------------+
------------------------------
From: at455@freenet.carleton.ca (Colin Pascal)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 17:16:19 -0500
Subject: Re: About HOM
>
>Matthew Miller wrote:
> I'd like to comment here. I understand about double buffering - used
>it myself on Arcs and SGIs, but it seems to me that Doom uses about 4-5
>separate buffers. I get this notion from watching a HOM (I refuse to use
>correct grammar here :) carefully after turning while one is in view and
>watching the resultant after-effect. Anyone know how many buffers are
>used? And is this a standard graphics mode, or have ID created their
>own? I guess this is more of an advanced graphics programmer question
>than a Doom editing one, but I feel it's relevant to Doom too. Any
>feedback welcome, direct to me if not deemed relevant to this mailing list.
I can never understand these high level programming discussions.... I
can't even program in the z-dimension! stupid sin/cos arguments.....
------------------------------
From: "Jason Hoffoss" <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 18:43:21 CST
Subject: Re: What are considered the best of editors?
On Fri, 10 Feb 1995 07:12:05 CST,
M&Ms <millerm@uwwvax.uww.edu> wrote:
>Since there are a lot of util writers on this list, could you all give me
>(and the list) your top 3 favorites for the different utilities....
>
>Sound utility
>Level design utility
>Graphic Utility
>
>Deu, DMDEEP, DMCad, DCK, WADED, DMGRAPH, DMAUD, etc.? It can be DOS,
>Win, or OS2 based. I'm going to put some notes on my BBS to get a collection
>of people together to do a theme (I know some of my users are artistic) and
>would like to put the diff editors in an area for them to download.
>Oh, I suppose you can also put YOUR editor on the top of the list but that
>is entirely up to you and at your discretion. 8-)
Well, I think the best map editor out there is DMapEdit. And even though
I am the author of it, it's still the best! :) But, you don't have to
beleive me. Try it out and decide for yourself. It's the easiest and
most powerful editor right now. You can find it on ftp.cdrom.com in
/pub/doom/NEWSTUFF/ as dme40bt5.zip. It is a beta version, but that's
mainly because it's still not quite done. When I get everything done that
I wanted to for v4.0, then I'll officially release it. There's really no
bugs to speak of. Anyway, later..
-Jason
------------------------------
From: Dainbrmg@aol.com
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 19:00:21 -0500
Subject: DEU 5.3 (sorry)
Sorry to be the 1,000,001th person to ask this but when is DEU 5.3 coming
out? I recall someone saying Raphael has the beta and he was supposed to come
back Fri...Does this mean we have to wait another week for our beloved DEU?
Do you think Raphael would mind if some beta tester out there posted it to
the list, since after all, He himself is ready to post it...
Sorry to harp but I'm dying for my DEU :)
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 18:56:50 CST
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3 (sorry)
> Sorry to be the 1,000,001th person to ask this but when is DEU 5.3 coming
> out? I recall someone saying Raphael has the beta and he was supposed to come
> back Fri.
You would not believe how often I'm checking my email for a message from
Raphael. I think it's like... 6 times a day?
> Does this mean we have to wait another week for our beloved DEU?
I certainly hope not. And I don't think so. But you'd have to wait a week
anyway, because we want to debug things. No point in having a kick ass
editor that doesn't work.
> Do you think Raphael would mind if some beta tester out there posted it to
> the list, since after all, He himself is ready to post it...
Sorry, but only beta testers can get copies of the beta. We absolutely will
not release beta copies (or alphas or previews) to anyone not on the beta
testers list. Currently the only people who can join the DEU Project are
those who want to contribute to the code somehow.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #154
**********************************
