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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 132
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #132
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Sunday, 22 January 1995 Volume 01 : Number 132
RE:
No single flats/sprites in PWADs
Another DEU feature suggestions
Another DEU feature suggestions
Re: Another DEU feature suggestions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Hotchin <mhotchin@microsoft.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 00:37:08 TZ
Subject: RE:
Your site is going nuts over this user. He's on a mailing list, and
your mailer is configured wrong. Since your send bad mail to the
list (instead of the sender), you now have an infinite loop. Could
you please dump this mail in the trash, instead of bouncing it, or
at least bounce it to the sender?
Mike H.
- ----------
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| >From doom-editing Thu 19 Jan GMT 1995 23:05:13 remote from nvg.unit.no
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| >From doom-editing Thu Jan 19 17:02:50 1995 remote from nvg.unit.no
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------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 14:12:02 +0100
Subject: No single flats/sprites in PWADs
> > Hey... I was just wondering if you could give me a slightly more
> >specific description of Doom does not work with sprites/flats in the PWAD
> >but does work with wall textures. I know it has something to do with the
> >PNAMES resource holding a catalog of wall patches, but why don't the
> >sprites/flats have a similar resource
> It's a good question. Does anyone have any ideas of WHY it is so?
Try this one:
"We could add features to DOOM forever, and still never get to
where we're going to put QUAKE. I'm not big on polish and
refinement -- I want bulk raw cool."
John Carmack, 25 Jun 1994
Read: same reason why DOOM didn't get the limited look-up/down capability.
Same for why collision detection does not take z direction into account.
Same reason why flats and pcitures are stored in a different way. Same
reason why there aren't any jumps/flights in DOOM. Same why there is no
DOOM client/server.
:-)
BTW, do not mistake this for a matter of taste. For a game selling
company, it is a necessity. We still have to see the first company
selling a game *and* selling significant updates, upgrades, toolsets
and development kits over a course of five years. Sales strategies for
games differ *much* from those invented for word processors or CAD.
Seriously ;-) I think the missing "type of lump" entry in the WAD
directory does make things a lot more difficult. PNAMES determines
that a lump is used as a wall patch (but it is still not handled
as a wall patch, see below). S_START/END seems to determine
the lumps required by the thing table. F_START/END probably indicate
raw data 64x64 lumps (never tried one of those for a sprite, or a wall
patch in the flats section :).
PNAMES isn't exactly necessary, as the patches might very well refer to
names instead of numbers (as do the Sectors and SideDefs, which could
have used numbers as well). It would have been possible to store opaque
and partly transparent pictures in two different ways internally, instead
of handling flats vs. wall patches. There is no real difference between
a single-sided LineDef's SideDef and a floor/ceiling. They could have
decided to allow for mapping multi patch textures onto the latter, too
(as floors/ceilings are probably slower than walls, this is likely not to
be recommended :). There is even no real difference between a partly
transparent 2-sided LineDef and a sprite.
Think about the pictures used for fonts (messages, display). Think of
the weapons sprites (absolute screen offsets), and the sky texture
(column index depends on viewpoint angle only). How do you identify
that a picture is cached/loaded on demand, and how do you identify those
that always have to be present (like fonts)? I remember a post on this
list about using fonts as a patch in a new texture, and that it did not
work correctly. There seems to be a lot of "hacking on demand" within
the WAD file I/O. Same might be true for rendering.
Remember the things table, the frame table. I'm not sure there is a
good reason why they aren't in the WAD as well. At least, no reason
not related to sales policy :-).
In summary, IMHO it's useless to determine any *reason*. The reason is
that the coders choose to handle things the way they did, and that
it is not usual among game selling companies to completely overhaul a
successfull product. Sales lessen the potential improvers incentive.
B.
------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 21 Jan 1995 17:05:37 GMT
Subject: Another DEU feature suggestions
I have a real small batch file (RUN.BAT) that looks like this:
:A
DEU -file %1.WAD
PUTKBD \r <-- clears the annoying "DOOM modified;
DOOM -file %1.WAD press return to go on" message
GOTO A
The idea is to switch between DOOM and DEU with as little hassle as
possible. It would be nice if you could specify in DEU.INI or as a
command line parameter "no interface mode"
Then, typing DEU -file XYZ.WAD -nointerface 3 7
would load XYZ.WAD and go directly into editing mode for E3M7. As
soon as you exited DEU edit mode, DEU quit directly into DOS or, in
my case, directly to DOOM, without having to enter a "q" at the
[please enter a command] prompt.
This would be a fairly simple [I would imagine] modification that
would make a lot of peoples' lives easier.
Just my continued 2 cents worth
- -j
_____________________________________________________________________________
/\
//\\ @@@@@@
///\\\ REMEMBER: @@@@@@@@@@
///||\\\ @@@@@@@@@@@@
////||\\\\ Only YOU can prevent @|@|@@|@|@|@
/////||\\\\\ forest fires! @|@@|@@@|@
/////||\\\\\ ||@@||
//////||\\\\\\ ||
///////||\\\\\\\ ||
|| Jeremy Holland: jdh15@po.cwru.edu ||
________||_____________________________________________________||_____________
------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 21 Jan 1995 17:05:37 GMT
Subject: Another DEU feature suggestions
I have a real small batch file (RUN.BAT) that looks like this:
:A
DEU -file %1.WAD
PUTKBD \r <-- clears the annoying "DOOM modified;
DOOM -file %1.WAD press return to go on" message
GOTO A
The idea is to switch between DOOM and DEU with as little hassle as
possible. It would be nice if you could specify in DEU.INI or as a
command line parameter "no interface mode"
Then, typing DEU -file XYZ.WAD -nointerface 3 7
would load XYZ.WAD and go directly into editing mode for E3M7. As
soon as you exited DEU edit mode, DEU quit directly into DOS or, in
my case, directly to DOOM, without having to enter a "q" at the
[please enter a command] prompt.
This would be a fairly simple [I would imagine] modification that
would make a lot of peoples' lives easier.
Just my continued 2 cents worth
- -j
_____________________________________________________________________________
/\
//\\ @@@@@@
///\\\ REMEMBER: @@@@@@@@@@
///||\\\ @@@@@@@@@@@@
////||\\\\ Only YOU can prevent @|@|@@|@|@|@
/////||\\\\\ forest fires! @|@@|@@@|@
/////||\\\\\ ||@@||
//////||\\\\\\ ||
///////||\\\\\\\ ||
|| Jeremy Holland: jdh15@po.cwru.edu ||
________||_____________________________________________________||_____________
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 13:44:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Another DEU feature suggestions
>
>I have a real small batch file (RUN.BAT) that looks like this:
>
>:A
>DEU -file %1.WAD
>PUTKBD \r <-- clears the annoying "DOOM modified;
>DOOM -file %1.WAD press return to go on" message
>GOTO A
>
>The idea is to switch between DOOM and DEU with as little hassle as
>possible. It would be nice if you could specify in DEU.INI or as a
>command line parameter "no interface mode"
>
>Then, typing DEU -file XYZ.WAD -nointerface 3 7
>
>would load XYZ.WAD and go directly into editing mode for E3M7. As
>soon as you exited DEU edit mode, DEU quit directly into DOS or, in
>my case, directly to DOOM, without having to enter a "q" at the
>[please enter a command] prompt.
>
>This would be a fairly simple [I would imagine] modification that
>would make a lot of peoples' lives easier.
>
>Just my continued 2 cents worth
>
>-j
Not a bad idea. While on the subjects of editing shells, I wrote
my own that is poretty good. It will handle DeuTex compilations, RMB,
Reject, BSP, etc... It even has an auto backup facility! BUT, as of
now everything is hard-coded into the exe. If anyone expresses need
or interest in a version which uses an INI file, then let me know and
I'll have it out soon.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #132
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