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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 151
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #151
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 9 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 151
Re: Dark Forces GOBS
Re: Deathmatch Level Testing..
Re: Dark Forces GOBS
Top Ten Tips
Re: Deathmatch Level Testing..
Re: Top Ten Tips
RE: Top Ten Tips
Re: Top Ten Tips
Re: Deathmatch Level Testing..
Re: Top Ten Tips
Re: Top Ten Tips (longish)
Re: Top Ten Tips
Re: Top Ten Tips
Re: New DEU?
Re: Top Ten Tips
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: swift1@powergrid.electriciti.com (Dave Swift)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 19:15:52 -0800
Subject: Re: Dark Forces GOBS
>> Alexander Graham Bell is alive and well in New York, and still waiting
>> for a dial tone.
>>
>> Now, now, not all of us can afford a SPARCstation. =)
>
>Please, no OS wars. I was only making a point. Let's get back to DOOM
>
Just wanted to get this straight.. :-)
Dave Swift ~ Campagnolo USA ~ Carlsbad, SoCal USA
Swift1@PowerGrid.Electriciti.Com ~ Stonehenge BBS (619) 929-6596
74401,1041@CompuServe.Com ~ DaveSwift@Aol.Com
------------------------------
From: Genesis Krzyzaniak <genesisk@eden.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 21:43:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Deathmatch Level Testing..
On Tue, 7 Feb 1995, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Feb 1995, Dave Swift wrote:
>
> > I want to test play my deathmatch levels in single play to see the
> > placement of things and test play it without having to link up
> > with someone.. Is there a way to play a level and make Doom2
> > think that there is another player?
>
> Try `DOOM2 -DEATHMATCH -WARP xx -SKILL z'.
> (xx is level number 01-30, z is skill level 1-5)
>
> You won't get simulated extra players or whatever, but you *will* get
> jettisoned to Deathmatch starts instead of the usual ones,
True
> and you will see the `multi-player-only' objects.
No, you need the `-Net 1' parm to see multi-only things.
In dos this gives me a `Doomcom - invalid buffer'
works fine in LiNuX tho....
- -- GK
------------------------------
From: jake@aloha.net (jacob buckley-fortin)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 19:05 WET
Subject: Re: Dark Forces GOBS
Now, everyone, don't think of me as an idiot, I'm not...i'm just new to this
mailing list....and, excuse me if this questions sounds "aol"-ish, buut, can
someone give me the lowdown on DarkForces editing? it would be tres cool to
create levels in true Z-Axis....aahhh.....yess.... ;)
jake
------------------------------
From: Paul Clarke <paulc@prl.philips.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 08:34:40 GMT
Subject: Top Ten Tips
Hi all,
There's so much experience on this mailing list - how about
posting your top ten tips for a good DOOM level/deathmatch.
I'm particularly interested in things that could be applied
to any of the common '3D' games. What's good, what's bad,
what makes for interesting gameplay, and what irritates the
hell out of you.
Thanks,
Paul.
------------------------------
From: kwreid@helix.net (Keith Reid)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 16:48:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Deathmatch Level Testing..
> > I want to test play my deathmatch levels in single play to see the
> > placement of things and test play it without having to link up
> > with someone.. Is there a way to play a level and make Doom2
> > think that there is another player?
>
> Besides running it as -net 1 (which I believe will allow THINGS with
> multi-player bits set to show up) Try hacking the frame tables in
> the EXE (Does DHACKED do DOOM2 Tree?) so that the sargents are the
> same width and speed(running) as a player. This is a good way to
> test how things will look while you are running for your life. This
> is not for the faint of heart, however, the sargents become very
> difficult to deal with when set up this way (kinda like other
> players, which is my point). :)
Why not just use -DEATHMATCH when not connected? That'll start you up in
random spots and also have all deathmatch items there.
Keith Reid
kwreid@helix.net
Keith Reid, Fidonet@1:153/859.0
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 11:20:32 GMT
Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips
At 8:34 am 8/2/95, Paul Clarke wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>
>There's so much experience on this mailing list - how about
>posting your top ten tips for a good DOOM level/deathmatch.
>
Tom Neff posted an excellent set of tips for Deathmatch design to this list
way back last summer -- I've posted a copy to to Paul individually: if any
one else wants a copy, please mail me directly and ask: it's a bit long for
mailing to the list unless there's massive demand.
Please don't just use REPLY to request a copy -- the list don't want to
hear you asking! Mail direct to S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk. Thanks.
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: D.Casali@rea0808.wins.icl.co.uk
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 11:34:48 +0000
Subject: RE: Top Ten Tips
One very irritating feature - complex controls. I know it's a
great game technically, but can we say that we enjoy playing
Descent as much as Doom? I can't, because of the simplicity of
the controls, and the very responsive movement of the character,
it makes Doom a pleasure to play.
------------------------------
From: Casey Robinson <ogiswise@rahul.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 04:11:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips
On Wed, 8 Feb 1995, Paul Clarke wrote:
> I'm particularly interested in things that could be applied
> to any of the common '3D' games. What's good, what's bad,
> what makes for interesting gameplay, and what irritates the
> hell out of you.
>
There is one thing that irratates the hell out of me... no make that 2.
1. Inapropriate/badly used textures. There was this wad for doom 1 that
I tried, and one of the walls of a long hallway was completly done(all
they way down, one end 2 another, atleast 500 units worth) in the texture
that was green marble with a body hanging upside down(w/ a leg sticking out).
It looked unbelevibly bad, and I was amazed that someone uploaded it.
2. Thos one is a minor point, but it is so easy to fix, it's hardly
worth mentioning. Lousy Dmatch starts. I haven't seen any of them in
pwads, but on level 1 3 (was it 1-3...hmmm...the level that gets you to
the 1st secret level...yeah, 1-3) there was a start that gave you a
soulsphere, but you were trapped in that little room 'till someone let
you out.
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 10:04:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Deathmatch Level Testing..
> > Besides running it as -net 1 (which I believe will allow THINGS with
> > multi-player bits set to show up) Try hacking the frame tables in
> > the EXE (Does DHACKED do DOOM2 Tree?) so that the sargents are the
> > same width and speed(running) as a player. This is a good way to
> > test how things will look while you are running for your life. This
> > is not for the faint of heart, however, the sargents become very
> > difficult to deal with when set up this way (kinda like other
> > players, which is my point). :)
>
> Why not just use -DEATHMATCH when not connected? That'll start you up in
> random spots and also have all deathmatch items there.
>
> Keith Reid
> kwreid@helix.net
> Keith Reid, Fidonet@1:153/859.0
Good point, though that wasn't the main thing I wanted to get across.
Similarly, you can use -altdeath and the THINGS will respawn
(less key strokes as well) :)
John
__________________________________________________________
#include <stupidstuff.h>
#define USER "johnw" /* John Wakelin */
/* Johnw@datametrics.com */
main() /* (703) 385 7700 */
{
while (isstupid(USER)) ignore(USER);
}
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 10:32:26 EST
Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips
Paul Clarke <paulc@prl.philips.co.uk> ,in message <199502080834.IAA05646@zaphod
>, wrote:
> There's so much experience on this mailing list - how about
> posting your top ten tips for a good DOOM level/deathmatch.
Align your textures. I know some editors don't have this capability (or a
useful version of this capability), but you can switch to another editor for
a few seconds to align your textures.
the PFME won't have texture alignment for another few days. I think I'll
release Alpha 6 with fast redraws before I re-implement texture alignment.
The real trick to doing texture alignment is not to get too smart. Just
consider your ceiling deltas and lower/upper unpegged flags. The tricky part
is aligning textures for secret doors (you can't set the upper/lower
unpegged or they look funny).
------------------------------
From: Robert E Arthur <rea@st-andrews.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 14:58:24 +0100
Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips (longish)
On Wed, 8 Feb 1995, Paul Clarke wrote:
> There's so much experience on this mailing list - how about
> posting your top ten tips for a good DOOM level/deathmatch.
In no particular order:
1) Texture allignment - Wad authors Pleeeeease take that bit of extra
time to allign textures! Nothing is quite so satisfying as seeing a
window look like it has been carved straight from the rock, rather
than a bit of cardboard with textures painted on! Also other minor
points like door rails being unpegged, all key doors with a colour
band to show, etc. can really make or break a level for me.
2) Size - I don't subscribe to the school of thought that says that a
level should be massive, when many (not nearly all) of the large
levels I see around are made up of complete dross. Not only does
this wear thin after a while, but can really kill a slow computer.
This applies doubly to deathmatch - you don't want to have to hunt
for an hour to get a frag! (also speed is a major consideration
in DM) If there are lots of things you want to `say' in a level,
why not split it into two...
3) Thought - in single player mode, I like to put in a bit of a puzzle
for the players, since this makes the level stand out more than
just another kill fest. Nothing Mensa-worthy, so that they wander
around for half an hour with no idea what to do - just enough to
allow for a bit of brainwork. In DM, less puzzles are good, but
keep 'em thinking! Allow for ambush sites, and make the level less
linear, so that with a bit of thought you can find and waste
someone who uses a quick trigger and no thought.
4) Themes - not necessarily your college, or any other `real' theme,
but I fell pray to a horrible mix of textures in my earlier wads.
Try to think of what style your wad should be, and choose textures
and designs to match. Caves may be really tempting, but look
silly in a warehouse.
5) Special fx - these are quite fun - such as floating cubes/deep
water. Beware though that they don't interfere with the play,
eg a cube you can shoot through, and if a level relies on the
player realising that a patch of water is deep, make sure you
document it - they will be expecting Doom gameplay...
6) Extra textures/sprites/flats/sounds/.DEHs etc... These are
lovely, and part of what makes Doom so fun - it's editability
(is that a word?). However, don't base your entire level on
the fact that you've thought of a really nice .EXE hack, and
want to produce just anything to show it off. Aliens-TC for
the most part was wonderful, but in places I felt it suffered
from poor design, with the other patches taking over.
7) Difficulty - MAKE IT POSSIBLE! Even if you make UV impossible
and add in the easier settings, that will give people something
worth playing. In my opinion, the diffiulty settings in ID's
levels were pretty good, some find them too easy. Oh, and
difficulty settings are a must. That way *anyone* can find
something to do (and if you find UV too easy, there's always
nightmare...). Oh, and plan ammo carefully, so that you don't
build up a nuclear arsenal before meeting anything, and likewise
you don't get left with a fist to beat a BoH.
8) Decorations - They're there to be used, and can really add to a
game. Don't overuse them though, and try to make them `fit'
this harps back to the idea of a theme. Don't put a technical
column in a cave...
9) Lights - With some clever design, you can produce some great light
effects - especially shadows. If you have a sector which is in the
light, then draw in some lines of shadow. Note Aliens-TC, level
5, when you go through the red door, into the wide hallway, I
suddenly lost all interest in the aliens, and marvelled at the
wonderful shadow, created by a mere 2 lines! (Note also (PLUUUG)
hop11.wad, one of my first, in the maze, I took no end of time
working out where the lights would get to).
10) HOM. With the exception of one place I am aware, ID's levels are
HOM free, and unless your level is pushing the engine to its limits,
so can your's be. If your node-builder screws up, try a different
one, or cut your level down slightly. This may be considered a
poor compromise, but I find a HOM-free level `feels' more professional,
and would take that over whatever you lose by cutting down.
All IMHO of course...
Byeeeee,
Bob.
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 11:39:55 CST
Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips
> 1. Inapropriate/badly used textures. There was this wad for doom 1 that
> I tried, and one of the walls of a long hallway was completly done(all
> they way down, one end 2 another, atleast 500 units worth) in the texture
> that was green marble with a body hanging upside down(w/ a leg sticking out).
> It looked unbelevibly bad, and I was amazed that someone uploaded it.
Yeah, I saw that. I think it was forest.wad. I didn't like it. Maybe once
or twice, or even one body every 256. But not that incredible repetition.
> 2. Thos one is a minor point, but it is so easy to fix, it's hardly
> worth mentioning. Lousy Dmatch starts. I haven't seen any of them in
> pwads, but on level 1 3 (was it 1-3...hmmm...the level that gets you to
> the 1st secret level...yeah, 1-3) there was a start that gave you a
> soulsphere, but you were trapped in that little room 'till someone let
> you out.
Ah, are you sure? I've never had that problem before. Of course... I
don't think I've officially started there before the door opened. It's
quite possible that they fixed this in 1.8. Of course, they forgot to
fix the bad trigger number on E3M9 in the 1.8 release.... grrrr...
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: Paul Falstad <pf@zoof.cts.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 13:13:45 -0800
Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips
tedv@geom.umn.edu says:
| Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips
| quite possible that they fixed this in 1.8. Of course, they forgot to
| fix the bad trigger number on E3M9 in the 1.8 release.... grrrr...
Fixed in 1.9 though.
- --
Paul Falstad, pjf@cts.com, http://www.cts.com/~pjf, 619-673-9939
"Do not let superstition inhibit your actions."
-- Jeane Dixon, horoscope for Virgo, May 17, 1990.
------------------------------
From: <jordanf@globalone.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 18:31:44 -30000
Subject: Re: New DEU?
I take it the project for the new version has been dropped? I've heard
no word on it, and it's been months and months and months.
Jordan Feinman System Operator
Global One, Inc. (518) 452-1465 v
jordanf@globalone.net (518) 452-1234 d
------------------------------
From: BonesBro@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 18:36:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Top Ten Tips
Here are a few that I kept in mind as I was building Amok.wad, 10 DM stages.
1. Make a REASON to go to each part of the WHOLE level. Not just, say, a
Phoenix and eggs and Tomes at one end of the stage, and a Dragon Claw and
Torch at the other. If you don't get a really good reward for running all the
way across the stage, it won't get used and half the stage remains empty
forever. And if people are running all over the place, there is much more of
the "active hunting" that's such a thrill.
2. Try to be original. How many "2D-Maze" stages does anyone need, anyway?
3. Textures, Textures, Textures! The example with the hanging bodies was
right on. Make sure your textures fit the walls they are on, and align
everything. Try to keep a general theme in the level.
4. Keep flying in mind when designing puzzles and traps. What good is a 1024
high lift if you can just fly up and grab whatever's on top?
5. Game balance. Too many stages offer really tough access to the good
weapons, so if someone gets it, he'll be practically invincible. At least
have the Phoenix or Launcher easy to get, so if someone's got a BFG, one shot
can kill him, too.
6. Heretic: Don't put many Chaos Devices, Quartz Flasks, Urns, Eggs, or any
other powerful items in. Again, a matter of balance. It's really hard to kill
someone if they've got 9 C.D.'s and 6 urns.
7. Try not to have really tiny levels, like idMap01. It was great, but when
someone beamed in, you pretty much knew exactly where they were. 50-0 real
fast if all they can get is a pistol...
8. Good use of light. 255 only when something needs highlighting. Stages just
don't seem right if everything is bright as day. 180 is good for most normal
rooms, IMO.
9. Heretic: If you use Pop Pod Spawners, keep in mind that they never stop
and can very quickly fill rooms. Also, don't forget that pods get blown by
wind! You could do what I did, and make a "conveyer belt" sort of thing,
where pods spat out little holes in the walls, or fall out the ceiling.
10. Easy access to too much healing can make levels boring. Whoops, 99 dmg, I
guess I go grab some SoulSpheres...
11. Whoops, you only wanted 10...
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #151
**********************************
