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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 166
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #166
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Sunday, 19 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 166
WAD Tricks
Re: Whoops!!!! (DF Multiplayer)
Re: Doom editing question
Re: DME quirk - player now 7 units high?
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: DEU 5.3 Beta
Re: id-ea
Re: doom-editing-digest V1 #164
Re: id-ea
Visiplanes:
BSP for unix
Re: DEU 5.3 Beta
Re: Visiplanes:
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 21:28:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: WAD Tricks
I have heard about several WAD "tricks" you can do, like transparent doors
and invisible stairs. How are these done, and are there any more such "tricks"?
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 22:49:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Whoops!!!! (DF Multiplayer)
>In my last message I said something about Dark Forces sptting out some
>killer deathmatches. Boy is my face red (it is, trust me). I'm sure we
>all know that Lucas Arts once again neglected to recognize the wide
>following of multiplayer games and designed DF without modem or network
>support.
>
>Anywayze, I recognized my err as soon as I sent the damn message and
>felt I needed to purge my self in public (now that sounds remotely
>obscene doesn't it?) before some wise cracker let me have it at short
>range.
Just don't purge yourself in front of the children...
Actually, I have good news. I'm the manager of a Software Etc. store, and
we had a conference in Dallas, TX in september, and guess who, that's right,
Lucas Arts was there (I got to play DF for half an hour, and I found stuff
that the Lucas Arts reps didn't even know was in the alpha!) . Anyway, they
said they will probably add multiplayer as a patch to the game!
Note -> Probably. This rumor was confirmed by the editors of Srategy Plus
magazine. (Imagine that, a confirmed rumor, wow. The editorial offices for
Strat Plus are right in my home town - Burlington, VT) So let's hope they
go through with the patch!!
Just thought I'd drop a line on this.
- -Ross
P.S. This is one of the first few times I've posted to this mailing list,
so please tell me if it worked through another post, or e-mail - thanks.
P.P.S. There was some really cool stuff in the demo, like walls that
ricochet your blaster shots (this was extremely realistic, it look exactly
like the effect in the trash compactor in Starwars!), and areas that show
that the engine is truly 3D (as opposed to the Doom angine), like catwalks
that you can either be under or on top of, etc.
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 23:07:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Doom editing question
>I know that this is the wrong list for this question (since it doesn't
>include the obligatory editor x is better than editor y), but I was fooled
>by the list name into sending it here.
>
Gee, I wonder, are you being sarcastic?
I know how you feel, this is a doom-editing not:
your-editor-sucks-and-mine-doesn't-because-I-wrote-it
when folks read, or post to these lists, they've got to learn to leave their
easily bruised ego's behind, and be open-minded and objective.
>I am just finishing a wad now. The flow of the level is fairly sequential
>due to different teleporters becoming available after certain actions are
>taken. My question involves how to make this a suitable wad for
>deathmatch. My dm experience is extremely limited, but I don't expect that
>people would be willing to run through the level to "open it up" before
>really getting into the dm play. I would like some thoughts on an idea I
>had: Having dm starts spread around the level that are "one-way" rooms
>(you can get out but not back in) that would have a set of switches, or
>even line triggers between you and the door, that would take care of making
>all of the teleporters available immediately. This would also allow
>players
>to restart in an enclosed hidden area with weapons, armor, and whatever
>other goodies readily available. Does this sound reasonable? Any
>additional
>hints to make sure that it would be playable as a dm level? Any hints for
>a
>fair distribution of weapons, armor, and health in the start rooms so that
>everyone starts nearly level, but still have a number of different weapons
>available?
I think your idea for opening up the level is great. This comes from a
player with literally hundreds of hours in 4-player deathmatch. I would be
happy to record a demo of your wad on our network if you would like to
analyze it, and make improvements. Please e-mail me if you would like me to
do that.
Also, about having the DM starts in enclosed areas, this is a good idea. We
have found that having DM starts in the middle of the action just gets
people pissed off because they beam in in front of a stream of plasma, or a
BFG blast. Also, starting with a good weapon does help a lot. It seems to
make the action faster, and it prevents people from getting fragged
constantly because they can't get to a weapon without dying first. This is
completely just an opinion thing, tho'.
My only suggestion would be to keep the DM starts in a relatively small area
of the level. Pick an area that seems to be the best battleground, and
concentrate the start points there. IMHO, large DM levels where you have to
go hunting suck.
Please let me know if this post worked, I'm new to the mailing list idea.
E-mail would be cool, or I can just check the list for responses to what
I've said here.
- -Ross
------------------------------
From: Jason Hoffoss <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 23:13:15 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: DME quirk - player now 7 units high?
On Thu, 16 Feb 1995, Ty Halderman wrote:
> I just tried DME 4.0 beta 2, and was moderately interested in using it at
> least in the interim before DEU5.3 is real :) I also often use various
> editors for their different strengths.
>
> Is it just me, or is there something absurd about DME deciding to use its
> own metrics for sector heights? Apparently only increments of 8 are
> allowed, but those are counted in ones, and everything I have come to think
> of as second nature for step heights, player heights, etc. aren't used. For
> that matter the heights documented in the FAQs aren't held to unless you do
> your own math. i.e. player = 7 high (56), highest step = 3 (24), etc.
Ok, a number of people keep asking about the same things all the time, so
let me just clear up a couple of things real quick here. DMapEdit uses
sector heights that are divisions of 8 by default. I decided on this way
long ago when DMapEdit was young. The reason was that from a study of
id's maps, they always used multiples of 8, and dividing heights by 8
would make numbers easier to work with. The rest of the editors didn't,
though, and many people have become used to normal units.
You can use normal units for sector heights in DMapEdit, though! It is
selectable from the preferences menu. May not be in beta 2, though, I
dunno. This brings me to the other point. Beta 2 is not the latest
beta. Beta 6 is, and is located in /pub/doom/newstuff/ I'm not really
sure why beta 2 is sitting around in the wad_edit (or whatever it is now)
directory, instead of beta 6, but hey. Still one little problem with
DMapEdit, though, that will be added into beta 7 (out in a few day). It
doesn't save your current editing state upon exiting, including the pref
menu. I know, my priorities are screwed up sometimes. It'll be fixed
soon, though.
> Please tell me I missed something. DME otherwise seemed promising, but I
> can't bring myself to have a different standard for one of the several
> editors I mess with.
>
> =-Ty Halderman ( thldrmn@sam.neosoft.com )
> "There I stood, mesmerized, like a lemming admiring the sea..."
-Jason
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 23:29:34 CST
Subject: Re: id-ea
> I was thinking back to how much fun I had playing the orginal DOOM maps,
> when I though -- why doesn't id make more levels? Sure, they've had DOOM II
> and Heretic, but they've not yet released a simple level pack. Something to
> continue the saga left off in DOOM I. I believe the levels they designed for
> DOOM I were the best deathmatch levels ever made: they all had such meaning;
> bringing back memories of the 1-1 to 3-9 25 hour personal assault. Playing
> level 2-2 in a deathmatch setting was so cool: it was like revisiting an old
> adventure with a friend. Oh well, that's my philosophical opinion.
I heard a rumor that iD is actually planning on this. Releasing a new level
pack or two. But this is all a bit rumor, so don't quote me.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 00:03:13 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: id-ea
>I was thinking back to how much fun I had playing the orginal DOOM maps,
>when I though -- why doesn't id make more levels? Sure, they've had DOOM II
>and Heretic, but they've not yet released a simple level pack. Something to
>continue the saga left off in DOOM I. I believe the levels they designed for
>DOOM I were the best deathmatch levels ever made: they all had such meaning;
>bringing back memories of the 1-1 to 3-9 25 hour personal assault. Playing
>level 2-2 in a deathmatch setting was so cool: it was like revisiting an old
>adventure with a friend. Oh well, that's my philosophical opinion.
>
>Please, if you have any flames or useless comments to air, air them to me
>personally and NOT to the list. This is just a suggestion: I am not
>responsible for my own dire stupidity and ignorance. TTUL
>
>***************************************************************************
>enigma <hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca>
I like this idea...basically a new IWAD for Doom 1/2. The only problem is
the compatibilty issue: We already have Doom, Doom 2, and Heretic. These all
have different textures, and need converting. This would cause more confusion.
Still, a nice idea. id sure made some neat levels. The only other problem is
the time issue. id is hard at work on Quake, and they unfortunately have no time
for doing stuff for Doom much anymore. Maybe some people should get together and
make a new IWAD type deal: 27 new levels, all new sprites, all new textures.
Now that would be cool!
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: Jason Hoffoss <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 00:21:00 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3 Beta
On Fri, 17 Feb 1995, Steve McCrea wrote:
> > > - Automated set-tags function
> >
> > Again, this is a group select and edit.
> >
> You can't group select a line and a sector, can you?
Sure, why not? I think DEU converted what you had marked over to the new
editing mode, so that's only kinda half multi-mode marking. Don't really
know about the other editors. But, since I wrote DMapEdit, I know it
can. Marking objects in one mode will actually mark related objects in
the other modes at the same time. So, when you switch modes, it's still
marked. Handy for something like marking a sector, switching modes and
editing the sidedefs of that sector.
> > > - "Run DOOM from editor"
> >
> > That will clash with the use of an external node builder. I'd rather have
> > a batch file, thanks.
> >
> Might as well have the option, surely?
Simple enough solution. Have your batch file check the return code, and
have the editor return different return codes based on how it's exiting.
If the editor spawns another program without quitting, though, it
shouldn't get back to the batch file anyway yet. I don't really know
much about this, though.
> > > - Automated texture placement
> >
> > Don't see what you mean.
> >
> I guess he means placing textures on upper/lowers/middles when the sector
> heights change, lines change from 2s to Im, and so on. I must say the sector
> heights change thing should be an option - otherwise it could apply the
> wrong texture and it would take a playthrough to notice...
Hmm, but wouldn't a wrong texture be better than no texture? No texture
would definately be wrong. At least I think anyway. :)
> > > - Complete grid control (not just "G" "G" "G" "G" "G")
> >
> > Erm, it's factors of 2 in DCK at least, innit?
> >
> Yes, but to go to 256 from 128, you press one button, once. You don't have to
> wait for the 64, 32, 16, 8, 512, refreshes, which can take some time...
Two way grid sizing control then. Btw, in DMapEdit, if you are zoomed
out enough that the grid lines are less than 4 pixils apart, it will only
draw even other line, every fourth line, etc, whatever it takes to make
sure they aren't closer than 4 pixils. Having to wait as it draws a
solid grey mass that's supposed to be a grid is a real drag. Any other
editors out there that don't do this may want to start.
> Steve.
-Jason
------------------------------
From: Shriker <GILLS@qucdn.queensu.ca>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 95 07:03:50 EST
Subject: Re: id-ea
Re: ID releasing additional Level-Paks
Actually, I just read Strategy Plus magazine a few days ago, and there IS a
blurb that ID *is* releasing a Level-Pak for DOOM and a screen saver.
(Strategy +, March/95)
"DOOM II Screen Saver and DOOM II Bonus Levels: for those of you who just
can't get enough of that ornery four letter craze, id plans on releasing a
DOOM screensaver and additional levels for DOOM II, designed by some of the
world's foremost freelance DOOMscapers."
Hmmmmm...who are these "world's foremost freelance DOOMscapers" ?
Anyone have any additional information on this, or are some of you under a
"contractual gag-order" ? <G>
Hope this helps,
- -Shriker
------------------------------
From: ambient!larry@nvg.unit.no (Larry Mulcahy)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 21:26 MST
Subject: Re: doom-editing-digest V1 #164
Shouting to be heard above the roaring chainsaw of dismemberment on Fri,
17 Feb 1995 16:51:38 +0100, owner-doom-editing-digest bellowed:
John> I've got this little deathmatch WAD I've been building. I'm
John> trying to make it *extreamly* nice. It is not complicated but,
John> there is some detail to it. I took some extra time to put
John> shadows off of some of the buildings, and the son_of_a_gun blows
John> up after running fine for a while. It pukes out this...
John> R_DrawPlanes: Visplanes Overflow (129)
This is caused by too many two-sided linedefs visible from where the
player is standing.
------------------------------
From: jdh15 <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 18 Feb 1995 16:21:45 GMT
Subject: Re: id-ea
> I like this idea...basically a new IWAD for Doom 1/2. The only
> problem is the compatibilty issue: We already have Doom, Doom 2,
> and Heretic. These all have different textures, and need
> converting. This would cause more confusion. Still, a nice idea. id
> sure made some neat levels. The only other problem is the time
> issue. id is hard at work on Quake, and they unfortunately have no
> time for doing stuff for Doom much anymore. Maybe some people
> should get together and make a new IWAD type deal: 27 new levels,
> all new sprites, all new textures. Now that would be cool!
This idea sound *really*cool*. I have some levels which I haven't
uploaded but are sort of designed in a sequence, because I was
going to release them as an entire episode for DOOM I, but then
DOOM ][ came out and who the hell wanted PWADs for DOOM I. I've
been converting them over the last couple of months to DOOM ][
(Ahh, the miracle of the Binary Editor and Check For Incorrect
Texture Names) but I think they'd make a cool first half-dozen
levels. They are designed for single play/coop, not DM, but I've
found that some of them work pretty well as DM levels.
I just have one question: Do you intend to use DeHackEd to make
new monsters/new weapons? (i.e. does "all new sprites" include ALL
new sprites?) This is starting to sound like a project on the
level of AliensTC. Not that I would mind. Personally, I'd like to
see more human enemies. (Arachnotron -> Human w/ Plasma Cannon\,
etc.) since most of my levels are based on earth-style sewuences
anyway. Also I'd want to fix the damn HeavyWeaponDude's death
sequence.
What kind of theme did you have in mind? Just for curiosity's
sake, my levels are themed around "Annihilate the enemy's military
stronghold. i.e. level names=fortress, prison, power plant, etc.
TTYL!
-j
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Pedir a tu corazon que me quiere un poco
No quedo vivir sin ti tu me tiene loco
Ay me estoy muriendo si no viene pronto
Pedir a tu corazon
-Reyes/Baliardo
Jeremy D. A. Holland
jdh15@po.cwru.edu
http://maniac.cwru.edu/~deth/
------------------------------
From: Robert E Arthur <rea@st-andrews.ac.uk>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 17:39:29 +0100
Subject: Visiplanes:
There seems to be a great deal of confusion about this - my understanding was
that the overflow occurred when too many 2-S linedefs were displayed *IN A
ROW*. In other words, the 16(or so) planes must *all* be in a straight line,
eg
+---+-----+...+---+---+
| x | | | | |
| |z | | | y|
| |---+ | | | |
+---+---+-+...+---+---+
thus, when x tries to see y, 16 2-S linedefs are viewed. However, z has no
problem, *EVEN IF THE EXTRA LINEDEF IS IN HIS VIEW ARC*. This seems obvious,
since every time the engine catches a 2-S line, it will place it on the stack,
and try another ray-cast, from there. Thus, too many lines will only cause a
problem if the engine already has a lot on the stack for that ray.
Byeeeee,
Bob.
------------------------------
From: Robert E Arthur <rea@st-andrews.ac.uk>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 17:42:47 +0100
Subject: BSP for unix
Well, after having been advised not to bother, I naturally went ahead and hacked
BSP4LINX to run under SunOS. What fun.
It now works fine, so I was wondering whether or not people think it is worth
my while uploading it for other users (note - I don't have access to a.b.d)
Byeeeee,
Bob.
P.S. Note - this is very much a kludge - the code is horrible.
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 11:57:11 EST
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3 Beta
Jason Hoffoss <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu> ,in message <Pine.3.89.9502180050.A267
23-0100000@gold.tc.umn.edu>, wrote:
> > > Again, this is a group select and edit.
> > >
> > You can't group select a line and a sector, can you?
>
> Sure, why not? I think DEU converted what you had marked over to the new
> editing mode, so that's only kinda half multi-mode marking. Don't really
> know about the other editors. But, since I wrote DMapEdit, I know it
> can. Marking objects in one mode will actually mark related objects in
> the other modes at the same time. So, when you switch modes, it's still
> marked. Handy for something like marking a sector, switching modes and
> editing the sidedefs of that sector.
I don't think that's what he meant.
Imagine you have a switch that you want to trigger a remote door. You want
to mark the linedef for the switch and the sector for the door. In the PFME
you can't SEE the marks in the other DisplayModes, but they are preserved
(unless an object gets deleted). So, you'd mark a linedef, then switch to
sector mode and mark a sector and say "GiveBothNewTag" (note, I haven't
actually implemented that yet, but I will, one of these days). It would
examine linedefmode's marks, sectormode's marks and give the lot of them a
new tag.
As for marking related objects at the same time, I don't do that. I wait
till the user hits Tab or Shift-Tab and then clear out the old marks of the
destination mode and provide it with new marks based on the marks of the
source mode. I still need to make Sector->Thing mark all contained things.
> Hmm, but wouldn't a wrong texture be better than no texture? No texture
> would definately be wrong. At least I think anyway. :)
Well, you'd notice the wrong texture when you ran consistency checks. With
the automatic way you might have an artistic fuck-up that escapes your notice
for a long time.
The simple way around this is to make the default textures = "-". So quit
yer bitchin :)
> sure they aren't closer than 4 pixils. Having to wait as it draws a
> solid grey mass that's supposed to be a grid is a real drag. Any other
> editors out there that don't do this may want to start.
I just do a rectangle fill :) I just checked and X draws the grid REALLY
FAST even when it's every other pixel. I'm impressed. Of course, it could
be the Mach32 server (even if it does crash on ntparadise).
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 12:12:05 EST
Subject: Re: Visiplanes:
Robert E Arthur <rea@st-andrews.ac.uk> ,in message <12600.9502181639@bute.st-an
drews.ac.uk>, wrote:
>
> There seems to be a great deal of confusion about this - my understanding was
> that the overflow occurred when too many 2-S linedefs were displayed *IN A
> ROW*. In other words, the 16(or so) planes must *all* be in a straight line
>> ,
You are wrong. Don't feel bad. You have plenty of company.
the >128/256 HOM problem is not what this other guy was having. HOM is
very different from DOOM bailing to DOS.
------------------------------
From: hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca (Enigma)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 15:31:22 -0800
Subject: Re: id-ea
> I like this idea...basically a new IWAD for Doom 1/2. The only problem is
>the compatibilty issue: We already have Doom, Doom 2, and Heretic. These all
>have different textures, and need converting. This would cause more confusion.
>Still, a nice idea. id sure made some neat levels. The only other problem is
>the time issue. id is hard at work on Quake, and they unfortunately have no
time
>for doing stuff for Doom much anymore. Maybe some people should get
together and
>make a new IWAD type deal: 27 new levels, all new sprites, all new textures.
>Now that would be cool!
Thanks for all the replies to my message. Would anyone like to start a 1-27
rehash?
***************************************************************************
enigma <hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca>
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 17:57:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: id-ea
>
>> I like this idea...basically a new IWAD for Doom 1/2. The only
>> problem is the compatibilty issue: We already have Doom, Doom 2,
>> and Heretic. These all have different textures, and need
>> converting. This would cause more confusion. Still, a nice idea. id
>> sure made some neat levels. The only other problem is the time
>> issue. id is hard at work on Quake, and they unfortunately have no
>> time for doing stuff for Doom much anymore. Maybe some people
>> should get together and make a new IWAD type deal: 27 new levels,
>> all new sprites, all new textures. Now that would be cool!
>
>This idea sound *really*cool*. I have some levels which I haven't
>uploaded but are sort of designed in a sequence, because I was
>going to release them as an entire episode for DOOM I, but then
>DOOM ][ came out and who the hell wanted PWADs for DOOM I. I've
>been converting them over the last couple of months to DOOM ][
>(Ahh, the miracle of the Binary Editor and Check For Incorrect
>Texture Names) but I think they'd make a cool first half-dozen
>levels. They are designed for single play/coop, not DM, but I've
>found that some of them work pretty well as DM levels.
>
>I just have one question: Do you intend to use DeHackEd to make
>new monsters/new weapons? (i.e. does "all new sprites" include ALL
>new sprites?) This is starting to sound like a project on the
>level of AliensTC. Not that I would mind. Personally, I'd like to
>see more human enemies. (Arachnotron -> Human w/ Plasma Cannon\,
>etc.) since most of my levels are based on earth-style sewuences
>anyway. Also I'd want to fix the damn HeavyWeaponDude's death
>sequence.
>
>What kind of theme did you have in mind? Just for curiosity's
>sake, my levels are themed around "Annihilate the enemy's military
>stronghold. i.e. level names=fortress, prison, power plant, etc.
>
>TTYL!
>
> -j
>
I meant that maybe some people could do a new IWAD. 27/32 levels would allow
for someone to do domething like Doom 1/2. At first you might be on a
military base.
Then you might be in a military prison. Then you might end up in some caves. You
know, three sets of related missions. The makers of the IWAD could draw out
a lot of
new textures and sprites to fit the theme. This is what I meant. I'd love to
be part
or something like this, but I can't draw for the life of me. I could do
levels, but not much else :(. Still, this would probably be cool. One
problem with it though is that
someone could download shareware Doom, get this IWAD, and be all set to play
Doom
Registered levels. The EXEs are the same. The makers of this IWAD would have
to use all
new texture names, and put them in TEXTURE2 resource, or else this would
occur. Still,
would be a neat project.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #166
**********************************
