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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 058
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #58
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Friday, 18 November 1994 Volume 01 : Number 058
Doom1 != Doom2
Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
Re: Doom1 != Doom2
Re: Doom1 != Doom2
Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
What are the current versions of the editors?
DEU 5.3
Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
Re: DEU 5.3
Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
DEU 5.3
difficulty levels in deathmatch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sarice@snotty.edaca.ingr.com (Steve Rice)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 11:07:24 PST
Subject: Doom1 != Doom2
Where did this assumption come from, that DOOM II owners should be
able to play DOOM I pwads without buying DOOM I?
My copy of Doom II came with an offer for the -shareware- version of
DOOM I. Not the full game for free! Clearly iD still wants to
sell DOOM I too.
Steve
------------------------------
From: Matthew Ayres <ayres@cdrom.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 12:19:06 -0800
Subject: Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
"S. McCrea" <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk> said...
>Raphael said:
>> It's possible that Id Software did not include several textures in
>> Doom II becasue they want people to buy Doom 1 for playing with WADs
>> written for Doom 1. I could perfectly understand that. After all,
>> Id is a commercial company.
>>
>Let's not judge too harshly here. Maybe iD didn't include those textures
>because they wanted to give us something NEW for our money, without
>making the IWAD too big. Whaddaya think?
DOOM II fits perfectly on 5 diskettes, compressed.
-Matt A.
------------------------------
From: "Klaus Breuer (CIP Guest - Linster)" <kabreuer@faui01.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 22:16:00 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
> >> It's possible that Id Software did not include several textures in
> >> Doom II becasue they want people to buy Doom 1 for playing with WADs
> >> written for Doom 1. I could perfectly understand that. After all,
> >> Id is a commercial company.
> >>
> >Let's not judge too harshly here. Maybe iD didn't include those textures
> >because they wanted to give us something NEW for our money, without
> >making the IWAD too big. Whaddaya think?
...blah blah...
Er, look guys, I've been following this thread for some time now.
Would you mind not cluttering my mailbox with this...noise?
Take it to some poor newsgroup, where I can at least 'k'ill the thread.
Let's stick to DOOM editing, preferably high-level.
Ciao,
Klaus
- --
Klaus Breuer, Rudelsweiher Str. 6b, 91054 Erlangen, Germany
"Geez, I need a *reason* for everything?" -- Calvin
"Should I or shouldn't I? Too late, I did!" -- Hobbes
------------------------------
From: quinet@stud.montefiore.ulg.ac.be (Raphael Quinet)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 22:55:45 +0100
Subject: Re: Doom1 != Doom2
> Where did this assumption come from, that DOOM II owners should be
> able to play DOOM I pwads without buying DOOM I?
>
> My copy of Doom II came with an offer for the -shareware- version of
> DOOM I. Not the full game for free! Clearly iD still wants to
> sell DOOM I too.
Certainly. All people who bought the Doom II disks in a shop or
bought the CD-ROM version (with Doom 1 shareware) should already
know this.
I wonder how many people on this list actually paid for Doom II...
Of course, the registered users of Doom 1 who filled in their
coupon to get the "pre-release" copy from GT Interactive did not
get the offer for Doom 1. Still, not everybody on this list was
a registered user and ordered Doom II from GTi. So the question
is: how many pirates are on this list?
Oh well... This list is doom-editing, not doom-advocacy. I'd
better shut up. Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.
- -Raphael
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Finger: finger quinet@finger.montefiore.ulg.ac.be for some useless info. |
| Mosaic: http://www.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~quinet (NEW: preview of DEU 5.3) |
| E-mail: eedraq@chapelle.ericsson.se or quinet@montefiore.ulg.ac.be |
| S-mail: Raphael Quinet, 9 rue des Martyrs, 4550 Nandrin (Belgium) |
| or: Raphael Quinet, Kapuzinergraben 2, 52062 Aachen (Germany) |
| --* Send your questions about DEU to: Deu_Help@boblab1.bobst.nyu.edu *-- |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
From: "John F. Harris" <jfharr01@homer.louisville.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 17:07:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Doom1 != Doom2
>
>
> Where did this assumption come from, that DOOM II owners should be
> able to play DOOM I pwads without buying DOOM I?
>
I don't agree with this. The PWADs I write can be used to play Doom I,
Doom II, or X-Wing if it were possible. I really don't want to take a PWAD
I've written for Doom I and redesign it for Doom II. Think about it. If
every PWAD in existence was rewritten and rereleased for Doom II, that would
double the number of PWADs. Anyone running a site wanting that increase in
volume raise their hands.
> My copy of Doom II came with an offer for the -shareware- version of
> DOOM I. Not the full game for free! Clearly iD still wants to
> sell DOOM I too.
>
Yeah well the best WAD I've ever seen for Doom I is DOOM.WAD. Don't think
PWAD writers are hurting ID one bit. Kind of keeps the game going and
interesting. Know what I mean?
> Steve
>
- --
John
------------------------------
From: Salporin@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 17:09:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
>> Olivier told me that I should distribute this message, so now you have
it... <<
Thanks. :)
You were right: seeing the question DID clear it up more.
------------------------------
From: David Shoemaker (B.E.S.T.) <a-bds@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 14:26:36 PST
Subject: What are the current versions of the editors?
Windows and Dos based please.
PS Is this list even alive? I haven't seen anything from it in a
couple of weeks.
Thanks,
David
------------------------------
From: Ed Phillips <flaregun@udel.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 18:03:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: DEU 5.3
Hi,
Is this available yet? If not... I have version 5.21 and I have
DOOM][. Can I use DEU 5.21 to make levels for DOOM][? I've read on the
newsgroups that you can convert DOOM levels to DOOM][, but I can't seem to
get DEU 5.21 to even start up without DOOM.WAD. Can I use the DOOM.WAD
(I forget the exact name) that comes with DOOM][ to get DEU 5.21 up and
running? There seems to be a lot of confusion, and no clear answers on
how to go about this (at least for a newbie like me ;-).
Thanks loads,
Ed
/****************************************************************************/
/* Ed Phillips flaregun@udel.edu University of Delaware */
/* Jr Systems Programmer (302) 831-6082 IT/Network and Systems Services */
/****************************************************************************/
------------------------------
From: brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 18:18:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
>
> > >> It's possible that Id Software did not include several textures in
> > >> Doom II becasue they want people to buy Doom 1 for playing with WADs
> > >> written for Doom 1. I could perfectly understand that. After all,
> > >> Id is a commercial company.
> > >>
> > >Let's not judge too harshly here. Maybe iD didn't include those textures
> > >because they wanted to give us something NEW for our money, without
> > >making the IWAD too big. Whaddaya think?
> ...blah blah...
>
> Er, look guys, I've been following this thread for some time now.
> Would you mind not cluttering my mailbox with this...noise?
> Take it to some poor newsgroup, where I can at least 'k'ill the thread.
>
> Let's stick to DOOM editing, preferably high-level.
>
> Ciao,
> Klaus
I totally disagree. I used to think this way, but now I realize that
matters like this are important to doom editing. The above posts... though
now that i read them, are straying away from the important point that you
shouldn't distribute iD textures. Uh, well now I change my mind, the
issue was resolved a few posts ago. Speculation of why iD didn't use
doom1 textures in doom2 should be moved to some news group. Don't
have any editing news? Personal e-mail is probably better for this stuff.
sorry to waste even more band width with this.
brian
------------------------------
From: Matthew Ayres <ayres@cdrom.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 15:28:34 -0800
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3
Ed Phillips <flaregun@udel.edu> said...
>
> Hi,
>
> Is this available yet? If not... I have version 5.21 and I have
>DOOM][. Can I use DEU 5.21 to make levels for DOOM][? I've read on the
>newsgroups that you can convert DOOM levels to DOOM][, but I can't seem to
>get DEU 5.21 to even start up without DOOM.WAD. Can I use the DOOM.WAD
>(I forget the exact name) that comes with DOOM][ to get DEU 5.21 up and
>running? There seems to be a lot of confusion, and no clear answers on
>how to go about this (at least for a newbie like me ;-).
WADED v1.42 can edit/create DOOM ][ maps, DEU 5.21 can not. WADED has a
nicer interface, and is more user friendly. Version 2.00 is on it's way,
and it will include many new features that the current version lacks.
(namely complete consistency checking and auto-fixing, pre-fab stairs,
doors, lifts, multi sector apply, texture alignment, even nicer interface,
and more. Soon after or maybe in 2.00, cut, paste, copy, resize, rotate,
undo, pcx/gif texture importer, understand/import texture PWADs.) Making
DEU completely useless. (oh boy am I gonna get flamed for saying that....
but you all wait and see.)
-Matt A.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Ayres <ayres@cdrom.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 15:36:06 -0800
Subject: Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin) said...
>>
>> > >> It's possible that Id Software did not include several textures in
>> > >> Doom II becasue they want people to buy Doom 1 for playing with WADs
>> > >> written for Doom 1. I could perfectly understand that. After all,
>> > >> Id is a commercial company.
>> > >>
>> > >Let's not judge too harshly here. Maybe iD didn't include those textures
>> > >because they wanted to give us something NEW for our money, without
>> > >making the IWAD too big. Whaddaya think?
>> ...blah blah...
>>
>> Er, look guys, I've been following this thread for some time now.
>> Would you mind not cluttering my mailbox with this...noise?
>> Take it to some poor newsgroup, where I can at least 'k'ill the thread.
>>
>> Let's stick to DOOM editing, preferably high-level.
>>
>> Ciao,
>> Klaus
>
>I totally disagree. I used to think this way, but now I realize that
>matters like this are important to doom editing. The above posts... though
>now that i read them, are straying away from the important point that you
>shouldn't distribute iD textures. Uh, well now I change my mind, the
>issue was resolved a few posts ago. Speculation of why iD didn't use
>doom1 textures in doom2 should be moved to some news group. Don't
>have any editing news? Personal e-mail is probably better for this stuff.
>sorry to waste even more band width with this.
Let me try another approach to stop this, and myself break a rule I'm going
to create. Stop replying to non-editing mail. Don't even reply to it to
tell people not to talk about it. Just let it die. If someone starts
talking about something not doom-editing related, ignore it. They'll go
away when they see there is no response. I've seen at least 10 messages
today where people have said to stop talking about non-editing issues.
Let's stop writing even those messages. I shouldn't even be writing this
message. I've been holding back on it, but I've had enough. DO NOT reply
to this message, just drop the conversation now. Even if you agree with me.
No offense to anyone. Thanks.
-Matt A.
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 19:51:13 EST
Subject: Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin) ,in message <9411172318.AA10487@minerva
.phyast.pitt.edu>, wrote:
> I totally disagree. I used to think this way, but now I realize that
> matters like this are important to doom editing. The above posts... though
> now that i read them, are straying away from the important point that you
> shouldn't distribute iD textures.
Well, there are two parts to a "texture". The description of how to put
the patches together, and the patches. When I started my CANYON series this
summer I started creating new textures that contained patches of my own
creation mixed with their patches. To ease the distribution of my levels it
would be handy to get some kind of approval to distribute a derivative
TEXTURES resource.
As for what Id owes us, they don't owe us anything. However if hacking
wads becomes illegal, then it will just go underground. If Id decides that
future games won't be hackable, they'll just go down in flames under the guns
of the next company to release a high-quality hackable game.
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" - (no, the X Files didn't
invent that quote)
------------------------------
From: mark.mathews@channel1.com (Mark Mathews)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 19:57:00 -0400
Subject: DEU 5.3
- -> Is this available yet? If not... I have version 5.21 and I have
- -> DOOM][. Can I use DEU 5.21 to make levels for DOOM][? I've read on
- -> the newsgroups that you can convert DOOM levels to DOOM][, but I
- -> can't seem to get DEU 5.21 to even start up without DOOM.WAD. Can I
- -> use the DOOM.WAD (I forget the exact name) that comes with DOOM][ to
- -> get DEU 5.21 up and running? There seems to be a lot of confusion,
- -> and no clear answers on how to go about this (at least for a newbie
- -> like me ;-).
The best you can do now is edit with DEU 5.21 and convert it with
WAD1TO2.ZIP.
Mark
------------------------------
From: wdwhitak@grissom.jpl.nasa.gov (William D. Whitaker)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 17:11:04 PST
Subject: difficulty levels in deathmatch
WADsters-
Me and a buddy of mine design deathmatch specific wads, but we found that
players in or group like to play a specific level in different ways:
* No monsters at all
* Limited monsters
* Zillions of monsters
* Only the chainsaw
* Only the "weaker" weapons
* All the weapons up to the BFG
(The no monsters mode is easy, of course. But the others are different.)
Being tired of building multiple versions of the same wad (and letting
them suck up our now-precious disk space :(, we came up with a
different solution, which we are converting our wads (the 2 playable
ones) to. But when I mentioned that I was going to post a question to
the net (because we dont have DOOM II), they thought others may be
interested in it. In this case, I decieded to post it to the list, not
the net (for obvious reasons :)
The idea is to use the three difficulty level bits to change the object
distribution for play style instead of difficulty level:
Diff
Group Level Weapons avaliable Monsters
- ----- ----- -------------------------- ---------
1 1-2 chainsaw - rockets (?) Limited*
2 3 chainsaw - (up to) BFG9000 Limited*
3 4-5 chainsaw - (up to) BFG9000 Typical Monster placement
* Limited monsters are the monsters specially placed for traps,
snipers, surprises, and weapon guards. These exclude the "fodder"
monsters that some of our players dont like in deatmatch play.
We originally had 4 groupings, but the difficulty settings method
only let us use three.
Group 1:
This mode dosent have any of the big weapons, no cells. Only limited
monsters exist (mostly in sniper positions, for our level), so you
are quite free to run after your buddy, without worring about running
into a pocket of monsters in your way. Since the monsters shoot slower
at level1-2, we have thrown a couple more imps into the snipers perch
just to maintain the "difficulty", We always use -respawn with this
setting.
Group 2:
This mode allows all weapons, although it takes alot of work for the BFG.
Still Only limited monsters exist to maintain the high frag level. Again,
we always use -respawn with this setting.
Group 3:
This mode allows all weapons, and appears more standard for monster
type and placement: snipers and stuff plus plenty of'em in the open
and around the corner
Note, we chose NOT to limit monster type, only weapon type. Yes,
we use almost no biggies for group 1, but some people were only
concerned with "unfair" weapons. Plus, a baron makes for a great
sniper for level1-2 >:^)
Our goal is to vary the playing style, not so much the difficulty
(were all UV players anyway),
One thing we noticed is that single player mode sucked for all but
level 4-5 (group 3) but these are deathmatch only anyway.
My questions:
1) We dont have DOOM II so we dont have the Super Shotgun, where does
it rank in the weapon hierarchy? (ie. is it too powerfull for
groups 1 and 2 above)
2) Our current cut-off for weak weapons is chainsaw to rocket-lancher,
does anyone have any suggestions about the rocket-lancher or the
super shotgun?
We are going to convert all our wads (as well as the ones we plan to
distribute) to use this, it seems to work fine, but we dont want others
to think our levels suck cuz we did it wrong, so any suggestions would be
appreaciated.
If there is any interest in this, beyond or own usage, I can post the
final configuration we will use, from the suggestions.
-Bill
***************** I want Washington DC DOOM! *****************
LVL1-Trade Dept, LVL2-Network Media Building, LVL3-Lobbyist Building, LVL4-Justice Dept, LVL5-IRS, LVL6-The House, LVL7-the senate,
LVL8-White House, SECRET LVL9-National Post Office HQ (What else? :)
**************************************************************
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End of doom-editing-digest V1 #58
*********************************
