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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 086
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #86
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 15 December 1994 Volume 01 : Number 086
Re: linedef flags for special room
RE: linedef flags for special room
teleport exits
[none]
Re: teleport exits
Textures on 2-s linedefs
Multiple player 1 starts.
Re: linedef flags for special room
Re: linedef flags for special room
Re: linedef flags for special room
D'oh! Stupid Mancubus!
Re: Multiple player 1 starts.
Re: D'oh! Stupid Mancubus!
Re: linedef flags for special room
Re: Multiple player 1 starts.
Newbie pointers
Re: linedef flags for special room
lindef questions
screen shots
Re: lindef questions
Re: screen shots
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: SYMBOL@ix.netcom.com (Jim Lowell)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 22:41:07 -0800
Subject: Re: linedef flags for special room
You wrote:
>
>I want to have a room (sector) in my level that appears from the
>outside to be a solid wall, but when you walk through the wall and
>go inside, you can see/shoot through it. This would be sort of a
>deathmatch ambush point. I have gotten this to work before, but
>now when I try it, I get HOM effect or worse. What should the
>linedef flags be set to?
>
>Dave Clough
>Portland, OR
>
>
I had the same problem when I started doing those 'ambush' points too.
I've found that there are only certain textures which can be
'see-through' from one side and solid on the other. You'll have to
experiment to find them all (look in the origional DOOM levels to find
examples), but I know the Marble Faces all work, and I think there are
some Wood textures which will also work.
As for the linedef flags, they only need to have the 2 sided flag set.
- - Jim
------------------------------
From: D.Casali@rea0808.wins.icl.co.uk
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 08:18:40 +0000
Subject: RE: linedef flags for special room
The thing is to set the height of the wall to be 128 or whatever
the actual height is, and to give one side a normal texture and
the other remain untextured. The flags should be 2s only.
------------------------------
From: D.Casali@rea0808.wins.icl.co.uk
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 08:23:06 +0000
Subject: teleport exits
Sorry for offending members of this list but I may have got the
wrong idea to start with. However, here is a genuine question.
I'm trying to get lost souls to teleport to various points in a
level as you trigger them off. They are in rooms outside the
walls and so out of sight. Is it possible to have one set of
line defs with the same tag number lead to more than one exit?
------------------------------
From: bi9333@ios.chalmers.se (Tomas Carlsson)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 10:14:38 +0100
Subject: [none]
desubscribe bi9333@ios.chalmers.se
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 11:29:06 GMT
Subject: Re: teleport exits
D.Casali@rea0808.wins.icl.co.uk wrote;
>Sorry for offending members of this list but I may have got the
>wrong idea to start with. However, here is a genuine question.
>I'm trying to get lost souls to teleport to various points in a
>level as you trigger them off. They are in rooms outside the
>walls and so out of sight. Is it possible to have one set of
>line defs with the same tag number lead to more than one exit?
These sort of questions indicate that you haven't read the essential
reading: Tom Neff's design FAQs answers this and many other common
questions. I can send you a copy if you haven't seen it, or you can get it
off orst (or my web pages).
To answer your qwuestion: you can only have one teleport destination per
sector, you can only have one sector destination per teleport line (Doom
will crash if you try multiple exits) but you can have more than one
teleport line transport to the same target sector. If you want to
transport to "random" destinations from one monster room, use a scattering
of different teleporter lines in your monster-source room and let the
movement of the player lure them out through the appropriate lines.
- -Steve
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Benner, IEBS, Lancaster University, Lancaster, UK
Voice:+44 (0)1524 593938 Fax: 593985 <-*NEW* S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk
__ http://cres1.lancs.ac.uk/~esasb1/index.html
- ----/oo\-------------------------------------------------------------------
GS/CS(AT$) d? -H+@ s !g p? k? au+ a w+ v(*) C++(++++)$ U--- N K- W++@$ M*$
V-- po- Y+ t+ 5+ j? R* G? tv* b+ D++>D+++ B? e++ u++(*) h- f r+++ n+++ y+++
======= WADSTERS: Check out http://cres1.lancs.ac.uk/~esasb1/doom/ ========
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 12:16:11 GMT
Subject: Textures on 2-s linedefs
Not a very advanced topic, I'm afraid but I'm hoping to head off some
questions to "Beginners's Corner". Here is the latest
absolutely-right-'cos-I've- tested-it-definitive word on the application of
textures to two-sided lines.
Lines that have the two-sided flag NOT SET:
- ------------------------------------------
Only the normal texture of these lines is used by DOOM - upper and lower
textures are ignored. This is true whether the line has one or two
sidedefs attached. Any wall texture may be used, though if the texture is
<128 _and_ <sector height, you'll get Tutti Frutti effect.
Lines that have the two-sided flag SET:
- --------------------------------------
Upper and lower textures are used as necessary: no texture restrictions
here (although Tutti Frutti rules apply);
The normal texture is rendered starting at top left (or bottom left if
lower unpegged) and repeated horizontally across the wall to the right. No
vertical tiling is performed, so the wall will be see-through below (or
above, if lower unpegged) the texture if the texture < height of normal
texture slot. Any texture which uses VERTICALLY tiled patches in such
cases will confuse the DOOM engine and produce the Medusa effect.
I hope this clears this up (and will reduce the numbers who keep asking me
about it!)
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 14 Dec 1994 12:48:11 GMT
Subject: Multiple player 1 starts.
Hi! A question for your creative minds--
When you put more than one player one start in a .WAD,
player one "ghosts" appear at the extra player one
starts, which, if hurt, cause the real player 1 to get
hurt. I have used this a couple of times and have seen
it used (remember HOCKEY?) but I was wondering if you
could come up with any more good ideas for it. Thanks!
- -j
_____________________________________________________________________________
/\
//\\ @@@@@@
///\\\ REMEMBER: @@@@@@@@@@
///||\\\ @@@@@@@@@@@@
////||\\\\ Only YOU can prevent @|@|@@|@|@|@
/////||\\\\\ forest fires! @|@@|@@@|@
/////||\\\\\ ||@@||
//////||\\\\\\ ||
///////||\\\\\\\ ||
|| Jeremy Holland: jdh15@po.cwru.edu ||
________||_____________________________________________________||_____________
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 09:53:40 EST
Subject: Re: linedef flags for special room
SYMBOL@ix.netcom.com (Jim Lowell) ,in message <199412140641.WAA19080@ix2.ix.net
com.com>, wrote:
> I had the same problem when I started doing those 'ambush' points too.
> I've found that there are only certain textures which can be
> 'see-through' from one side and solid on the other.
Originally the wisdom was that only single-patch textures would work on a
shoot-through normal. However, I have been told that some multi-patch
textures (startan3?) work as well, and I have also been told that this is
because none of the patches in those textures overlap. I'm going to write
this check into my editor and post a list of textures with non-overlapping
patches to this list. Then you can all tell me I'm full of shit.
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 09:59:05 EST
Subject: Re: linedef flags for special room
D.Casali@rea0808.wins.icl.co.uk ,in message <"294*/I=D/S=Casali/OU=rea0808/O=ic
l/PRMD=icl/ADMD=gold 400/C=GB/"@MHS>, wrote:
> The thing is to set the height of the wall to be 128 or whatever
This is not necessary. It has been mentioned before that a change in floor
height will prevent the texture from continuing beneath the floor. I have
personally observed this. I wonder if you could change the
ceiling height and have it work. Perhaps you'd have to lower unpeg as well.
------------------------------
From: brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 10:08:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: linedef flags for special room
>
> You wrote:
>
> >
> >I want to have a room (sector) in my level that appears from the
> >outside to be a solid wall, but when you walk through the wall and
> >go inside, you can see/shoot through it. This would be sort of a
> >deathmatch ambush point. I have gotten this to work before, but
> >now when I try it, I get HOM effect or worse. What should the
> >linedef flags be set to?
> >
> >Dave Clough
> >Portland, OR
> >
> >
>
> I had the same problem when I started doing those 'ambush' points too.
> I've found that there are only certain textures which can be
> 'see-through' from one side and solid on the other. You'll have to
> experiment to find them all (look in the origional DOOM levels to find
> examples), but I know the Marble Faces all work, and I think there are
> some Wood textures which will also work.
>
> As for the linedef flags, they only need to have the 2 sided flag set.
>
> - Jim
>
If you have deutex, look in the testure file and use only the single
patch textures. There is also a doc (i think) that tells what patches
are used where. Wacker can also be used, maybe NWT too. Just remember
to use single patch textures (although some multipatch textures may work).
brian
------------------------------
From: dethlejd@galt.osd.mil
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 10:17:02 -0500
Subject: D'oh! Stupid Mancubus!
WARNING - Silly ANSI graphics
______________________________________________
| |
| BB BB BB BB P3 |<-F92-C220/CEIL_n
| SG MN MN SG | MN = Mancubus - South
|____[]_______[]_______[]_______[]_______[]____| SG = Shotgun Dude - South
| | BB = Blowup Barrel
| | [] = Column sector, F256-C256
| |
| |<-F0-F256/F_SKY
| P2 |
| ______________ | Fn = Floor Height
| |_____F16______| | Cn = Ceiling Height
| |_____F32______| | Pn = Player location
|____[]_______[]|_____F48______|[]_______[]____|
| |
| |
| P1 |<-F64-C220/CEIL_n
| |
| |
|______________________________________________|
OK, here's the deal:
Assuming that the linedefs are set up properly, and the flags and tags
are kosher, this is what happens.
When Player (Pn) is on the first landing (P1), all the baddies see him
(you can hear their screams of rage) and the SGD's open up. The MN has
an EAST facing, even though the SOUTH flag is set. The MNs DO NOT FIRE
(Even though I want them to).
At P2, the MNs still do not engage.
At P3, the MNs finally wake up.
What's up with this? I realize that baddies have a height and width
that is used to calculate the rooms in which they can fit, but why are
they facing east, and why do they not engage targets at lower
elevations? They should be able to turn and shoot at the player.
____________________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Jim Dethlefsen | #include std_disclaimer.h |
| Systems Engineer | |
| Electronic Data Systems, Inc. | (703)695-1312 dethlejd@galt.osd.mil |
| OSD Backbone Services | |
|________________________________|___________________________________________|
| |
| "We really don't know how many of the blasted things we sold; |
| we were keeping track on one of them..." - Unnamed Pentium Engineer |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 10:36:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Multiple player 1 starts.
> When you put more than one player one start in a .WAD,
> player one "ghosts" appear at the extra player one
> starts, which, if hurt, cause the real player 1 to get
> hurt. I have used this a couple of times and have seen
> it used (remember HOCKEY?) but I was wondering if you
> could come up with any more good ideas for it. Thanks!
You could try putting one in a large room full of monsters, and then
player would have to fight the monsters but NOT hit the voodoo doll
player. Could be interesting. But hey, it's up to YOU to come up with
the killer ideas, we just answer (or, well, try to answer) the technical
stuff. If there was a REALLY cool idea for them that I had, I'd just put
one in my own WAD to use it! (I actually was thinking about it once...)
Greg
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 16:26:18 GMT
Subject: Re: D'oh! Stupid Mancubus!
dethlejd@galt.osd.mil wrote:
[pretty picture snipped]
>
>OK, here's the deal:
>
>When Player (Pn) is on the first landing (P1), all the baddies see him
>(you can hear their screams of rage) and the SGD's open up. The MN has
>an EAST facing, even though the SOUTH flag is set. The MNs DO NOT FIRE
>(Even though I want them to).
>
>At P2, the MNs still do not engage.
>
>At P3, the MNs finally wake up.
You don't say whereabouts on P3 you need to be to wake them up, but it
looks like they're set deaf as well as not looking at the player. Also, see
if they wake up when you shoot at them from P1 - if they do, they're
definitely deaf. If not, you've got probs! Try turning the other guys off
(move 'em to a different level of play) and concentrate on the MN's, I'd
say. Maybe you have an editor glitch: load the wad into another editor and
see if it reports them facing east (this is the default i.e. 0 facing) and
check their deaf flag.
UUencode and send me the wad if you want me to check it out for you.
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: quinet@stud.montefiore.ulg.ac.be (Raphael Quinet)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 18:25:27 +0100
Subject: Re: linedef flags for special room
Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu> wrote:
> Originally the wisdom was that only single-patch textures would work on a
> shoot-through normal. However, I have been told that some multi-patch
> textures (startan3?) work as well, and I have also been told that this is
> because none of the patches in those textures overlap. I'm going to write
> this check into my editor and post a list of textures with non-overlapping
> patches to this list. Then you can all tell me I'm full of shit.
Actually, I think it's a bit more restricted than "non-overlaping patches".
The real condition is: there should be only one patch in each vertical line.
This is because the Doom engine displays the textures "columns first" and
it looks like it's confused when there is more than one patch in a column
and the wall is two-sided.
So two things are possible:
- - only one patch
- - several patches side by side (horizontally), with no overlapping
Correct me if I am wrong...
- -Raphael
------------------------------
From: Paul Francis Turnbull <stenger@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 14:15:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Multiple player 1 starts.
> When you put more than one player one start in a .WAD,
> player one "ghosts" appear at the extra player one
>
I've been trying to create a deathmatch practice PWAD which tried
to make cleaver use of multiple player 1 starts to no avail. I started
with a modified House.wad (good deathmatch PWAD which is nicely 2-D
so monsters have easy access to all areas) and used a modified
M_army.deh patch to put in other Marine like monsters. You can play
in deathmatch mode such that when you are killed hitting spacebar
regenerates you in a different spot (most of the time).
So here's the problem, each time you regenerate the monsters also
respawn at their original locations. I was hoping that putting
multiple player 1 starts would fool doom into thinking a multi-player
game was in progress so it wouldn't respawn the monsters. It didn't
work, any ideas would be welcome.
Paul Turnbull
stenger@engin.umich.edu
------------------------------
From: Michael Hotchin <mhotchin@microsoft.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 10:49:14 TZ
Subject: Newbie pointers
Hi there. I'm new to this list, and I saw your mail about 'ask me,
because I know'.
Can you point me to a FAQ and any other useful info? I'm also looking
for a half
decent editor that runs on DOOM 2. I've done some editing on DOOM, but
I'd like
to move to DOOM 2. Thanks for your help!
Mike Hotchin.
mhotchin@microsoft.com
------------------------------
From: mark.mathews@channel1.com (Mark Mathews)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 14:52:00 -0400
Subject: Re: linedef flags for special room
- -> > I had the same problem when I started doing those 'ambush' points
- -> too. > I've found that there are only certain textures which can be
- -> > 'see-through' from one side and solid on the other.
- ->
- -> Originally the wisdom was that only single-patch textures would work
- -> on a shoot-through normal. However, I have been told that some
- -> multi-patch textures (startan3?) work as well, and I have also been
- -> told that this is because none of the patches in those textures
- -> overlap. I'm going to write this check into my editor and post a
- -> list of textures with non-overlapping patches to this list. Then you
- -> can all tell me I'm full of shit.
Can someone make a test wad with different textures to find out which
textures you can walk-through, shoot through, etc?
Mark Mathews
------------------------------
From: mmathews@genesis.nred.ma.us (Mark Mathews)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 15:05:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: lindef questions
Some people tried JUMP.WAD and the maximum jump is:
1) Regular jump (shift + up arrow)
17x8 = 136 units
2) Sideways jump (shift + alt + up arrow + right arrow)
22x8 = 176 units
Thanks for all who tried JUMP.WAD.
Is anybody keeping notes on all these tidbits?
Now I have more questions.
1) I need a Linedef type # that is WR Raise Floor to match next floor
texture and type. I have a sector that will raise when walked on
one end and then lowers at the other end. Both are Walk over and
repeatable. Is there such a linetype?
2) I'm having problems with LineDef type # 20 (S1 Raise floor to
match next floor, texture, and type. When the floor raises it
does not match the next floor texture. Why? Is DOOM looking for
an adjacent sectors? next floor? sectors numbers? what?
Mark Mathews mark.mathews@channel1.com
mmathews@genesis.nred.ma.us
DOOM, DOOM II, and ALIENS. The best!!!
That's it, man. Game over man, it's GAME OVER!
- Hudson from the movie ALIENS
------------------------------
From: clough@hyster.rain.com (Dave Clough)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 13:13:11 PST
Subject: screen shots
Is there a way to take a snap shot of a screen in DEU or another
DOOM editor? I'd like to be able to print out or view online any
levels that I create.
Also...where's the FAQ for this list?
Dave Clough
Portland, OR
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 16:55:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: lindef questions
> 2) I'm having problems with LineDef type # 20 (S1 Raise floor to
> match next floor, texture, and type. When the floor raises it
> does not match the next floor texture. Why? Is DOOM looking for
> an adjacent sectors? next floor? sectors numbers? what?
I think the floor, texture that it matches are actually the floor and
texture of the sector on the first sidedef of the switch itself, not on
an adjecent sector to the sector that's moving. I remember some talk
about that last July when I was working on a WAD of mine, and that's what
the conclusion was. That might be wrong though, because those linedefs
are a bit tricky to deal with...
Greg Lewis
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 17:59:20 CST
Subject: Re: screen shots
> Is there a way to take a snap shot of a screen in DEU or another
> DOOM editor? I'd like to be able to print out or view online any
> levels that I create.
#1: You can load a TSR that lets you screen dump.
#2: DEU 5.3 has support for printing to PS files.
#3: There is some program for NeXTstep that prints to post script files, though
I don't know if it's up for anony ftp. Some guy here at the geometry
center was working on it a while back.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #86
*********************************
