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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 031
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #31
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Tuesday, 1 November 1994 Volume 01 : Number 031
NEWS FLASH! (well, not that exciting, really)
Re: Node building
Re: Changing the Doom Pallette
Bob's Consistency Checker (was Re: Node building)
Re: DEU 5.3 -wad conversions to DOOM2
Re: Silent teleporters
Re: DEU 5.3
Re: Changing the Doom Pallette
Re: NEWS FLASH! (well, not that exciting, really)
Re: Node building
Re: Bob's Consistency Checker (was Re: Node building)
Re: DEU 5.3
Re: Aliens TC with DOOM3.wad?
Re: Node building
Re: DEU 5.3
Re: Silent teleporters
Re: DEU 5.3
Re: Silent teleporters
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 10:36:18 EST
Subject: NEWS FLASH! (well, not that exciting, really)
I mentioned to a few of you that I was using the multi-switch idea from
the TRINITY author and one of my switches was screwing up.
Well, I think I found the error but haven't tested so here's a caveat:
Having a switch texture in more than one texture slot on a sidedef might
bite you.
Specifically, I had a switch texture on the normal and a switch texture on
the lower which wasn't visible (the linedef had a different existence
previously). When I activated the switch, the normal texture didn't change.
I have no idea what happened to the lower.... (I still haven't tried
single-patch textures on 2S normals, sorry)
I am guessing that the lower texture did the switch and the normal got
ignored. If I ever get around to confirming this, I'll tell you guys. In
the mean time, someone industrious may feel free to verify it, but the rest
of you keep it in mind if your switch fails to work...
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 10:45:21 EST
Subject: Re: Node building
"Kram Llens" <kram_llens@rmit.edu.au> ,in message <MAILQUEUE-101.941031133951.3
20@kitsune.art.rmit.edu.au>, wrote:
> Someone wrote femdoom, to put a female face in the status bar, so
> that is likely to be another one.
REALLY? I can't find it on mimosa (infant2's graphics directory is empty)
I have a female roommate who would love this patch so where is it?
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 10:45:32 EST
Subject: Re: Changing the Doom Pallette
DTeeter@aol.com ,in message <9410301537405842800@aol.com>, wrote:
> Any ideas on the 255 gray (plus cyan) Doom conversion?
Doesn't VGA only have 6 bits of color precision? That would limit you
to 64 shades of gray. Besides. 32 shades is near the limit of what the
eye can distinguish. Maybe it's just me, but I'll stick to color :)
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 16:42:17 GMT
Subject: Bob's Consistency Checker (was Re: Node building)
Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu> wrote:
> Bob's Consistency Checker
>
> - by Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
So that's what BCC stands for... :)
[chop]
>
> * linedef with two sidedefs should have 2S set.
bzzzt. Warning only, surely.
and how about
*** >256 edges in view simultaneously. I know the computation time is
probably horrendous but surely some sort of indication of this problem can
be computed? If the engine can compute the view in real time, can it be
too difficult for a consistency checker to check, say, the view from the
centre (ish) of each sector out into each adjacent sector? Am I right in
believing that the nodes builder (any nodes builder) contributes to this
problem when it builds the SSECTORS and SEGs?
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 12:48:42 EST
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3 -wad conversions to DOOM2
tedv@geom.umn.edu ,in message <199410311533.AA12150@lovelace.geom.umn.edu>, wro
te:
> > An external config file for the user to map out substituted textures would
> > prove to be quite useful, I would think.
>
> I agree. Of course, DEU would have to be able to do a base conversion as
> well. I have a routine in mind that might be able to pull it off...
> though it would be timeconsuming. As in... longer than rebuilding nodes
> on a 200K level. But then *you* guys probably wouldn't have to run it. :)
WHAT? This is insane. You must be doing a linear search. Just sort on
the keys and do a binary search. Heck, if you had perl it would be a simple
associative array lookup and that's definitely optimized halfway to Pluto.
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier (++49-228-550-247) <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 18:55:52 +0100
Subject: Re: Silent teleporters
> > graphic is easy enough as you just make it totally invisible,
> > but I am
> > stymied as to how to get rid of the sound. Solutions?
> Maybe if you create a sound file a few bytes long, containing only
> silence... I can't see what that wouldn't work, and it can even
> be a PWAD..
It works with length zero sound (tried it with 1.2, months ago).
B.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Bernd Kreimeier THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY
bernd@nero.uni-bonn.de LEFT BLANK ...
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 13:10:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3
>
> > Also, is there any word from those doing the GCC port, or will DEU 5.3 be
> > supporting extended memory?
>
> Lessi.... There WILL be a GCC "port" version. (Incidently, I do all of
> my work in GCC and then port back to BCC for memory reasons. ;) I don't
> know if the official release will be the BCC version or the GCC version.
> We are/were tossing around the idea of compiling under BCC 4.0, but we
> decided that it definately had to be BCC 3.0 compatable.
>
The GCC that's out now seems to lock up randomly on me. I hope
this isn't a problem for DEU 5.3 if it's only release will be
in GCC. If it is, I don't think I could bare it.
brian
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier (++49-228-550-247) <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 19:22:47 +0100
Subject: Re: Changing the Doom Pallette
> Has any one ever thought of changing the Doom palette to 255 grays (plus
> cyan).
There is no Cyan in the PLAYPAL. It has to be in partly transparent
GIF files, as DMGRAPH uses Cyan as background color.
> Doesn't VGA only have 6 bits of color precision? That would limit you
> to 64 shades of gray.
IMHO that's entirely right ;-).
I thought about some RGB -> Gray PLAYPAL myself, as I (occasionally)
run DOOM, and I'm using a 21" greyscale Flexscan 6500, which uses
only G of VGA RGB, and doesn't leave much of Blue and Red <g>. Within
Linux and XFree86 3.1 (X11R6), a Visual = "GrayScale" works quite
nice, but I might still try my own conversion someday (E3 is a pain,
the SKY3 mostly black, still).
B.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Bernd Kreimeier THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY
bernd@nero.uni-bonn.de LEFT BLANK ...
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 13:33:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: NEWS FLASH! (well, not that exciting, really)
>
>
> (I still haven't tried
> single-patch textures on 2S normals, sorry)
>
I use single patch textures on 2s normals for switches, and
it works just like if I used the regular multipatch textures.
Textures change as they are suppose to.
brian
------------------------------
From: Gordon_Mulcaster@mindlink.bc.ca (Gordon Mulcaster)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 10:53:03 -0800
Subject: Re: Node building
Robert Forsman (thoth@cis.ufl.edu) writes:
> Bob's Consistency Checker
> [...lot's of good error to check for delete...]
> * linedef that has two sidedefs, an impassable bit set, and no texture on
> either normal.
This isn't an error! How else do you make plate glass windows? See the window
into the yard by the start of E1M1.
> * multi-patch texture on a 2S linedef's NORMAL texture. (Medusa effect)
This should be a **, since some complex textures work, STARTAN3 for example.
- --
"How can I be wrong? I have a badge!" -- Groo
Gordon_Mulcaster@mindlink.BC.CA -or- a7902@mindlink.BC.CA
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 14:25:34 EST
Subject: Re: Bob's Consistency Checker (was Re: Node building)
S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner) ,in message <548.9410311642@cent1.lancs
.ac.uk>, wrote:
> [chop]
> >
> > * linedef with two sidedefs should have 2S set.
>
> bzzzt. Warning only, surely.
Thank you. I haven't updated the document in a while...
> and how about
>
> *** >256 edges in view simultaneously. I know the computation time is
> probably horrendous but surely some sort of indication of this problem can
> be computed?
Uh, I shudder at this.
> If the engine can compute the view in real time,
Then it can check for one POV at a time. Now repeat that for 2000x2000
possible positions (or 8000x8000 for one of my wads). You can do
heuristics, but I simply recommend that you look at your creation from a
couple of different places and don't bother the computer with "hard"
problems :)
Unless one of you guys has an NP-turing machine...
I don't mean to discourage you guys from thinking about an efficient way
to solve the problem, but I'm not going to wasty MY single-tasking time on
some heuristic that won't discover the HOM.
(my most annoying HOM was looking out over a factory floor from a catwalk
that surrounded the room. The catwalk was annular and the centroid of the
sector was not in the sector. I finally turned one of the sub-structures
around 90 degrees to remove some 2S lines from the view. This was under 1.2
and probably would look fine under 1.666)
------------------------------
From: johnsond@std.teradyne.com (Dean Johnson)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 12:25:23 PST
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3
> From: brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin)
[GCC version of Deu]
> The GCC that's out now seems to lock up randomly on me. I hope
> this isn't a problem for DEU 5.3 if it's only release will be
> in GCC. If it is, I don't think I could bare it.
Just another data point: I've been heavily using the GCC version of
5.21 for months now and the only problem I've seen is that it's
scrambled the vertices around twice (I had backups both times).
It's never locked up on me.
- -Dean
------------------------------
From: Matthew Ayres <ayres@cdrom.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 13:40:44 -0800
Subject: Re: Aliens TC with DOOM3.wad?
tmunk@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Todd Munk) said...
>>
>> tmunk@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Todd Munk) said...
>> >If I use doomgen to create a doom3.wad can I then run aliens-TC with
>> >DOOM2?
>>
>> You should be able to just fine.
>>
>> -Matt Ayres
>> -Author WADED
>>
>What is the latest version of Doomgen? Is it still the best way to
>combine DOOM I and DOOM ][ wads into one so that all the levels can
>be played with DOOM ][?
It's still on version 1.0... I haven't had time to update it. Most likely
I will be sometime soon. It's almost the only way to do what you need.
You can also create a PWAD with the differences, I'll make doom3gen have
that option.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Matthew Ayres, a.k.a. White Fang -Author WADED, a DOOM map editor
-SysOp Lithium BBS, 510-455-0425 -Diagnosed with DOOMophobia, the
-Email: ayres@cdrom.com fear of not playing DOOM enough
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 16:50:13 EST
Subject: Re: Node building
Gordon_Mulcaster@mindlink.bc.ca (Gordon Mulcaster) ,in message <m0r21oF-0003HMC
@deep.rsoft.bc.ca>, wrote:
> Robert Forsman (thoth@cis.ufl.edu) writes:
> > * linedef that has two sidedefs, an impassable bit set, and no texture on
> > either normal.
>
> This isn't an error! How else do you make plate glass windows? See the window
> into the yard by the start of E1M1.
Correct again. This should be a warning.
In the mentioned case I consider it highly probable that the person did
something screwy in the editor unless they want to give some hint that
there's "glass" there by giving it a texture.
>
> > * multi-patch texture on a 2S linedef's NORMAL texture. (Medusa effect)
>
> This should be a **, since some complex textures work, STARTAN3 for example.
** is for complicated stuff. I don't consider this complicated.
Anyway, I didn't think that ANY multi-patch textures worked on 2S
normals. Can anyone confirm his STARTAN3 claim?
------------------------------
From: brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 18:12:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3
>
> > From: brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin)
> [GCC version of Deu]
> > The GCC that's out now seems to lock up randomly on me. I hope
> > this isn't a problem for DEU 5.3 if it's only release will be
> > in GCC. If it is, I don't think I could bare it.
>
> Just another data point: I've been heavily using the GCC version of
> 5.21 for months now and the only problem I've seen is that it's
> scrambled the vertices around twice (I had backups both times).
> It's never locked up on me.
>
Well It never locked up on me until one of the following happened,
(i don't know which one)
1. I got a new (NICE) 486dx266 motherboard
3. I added 4 megs of ram (8total)
2. My wad grew over 100K.
Any ideas?
brain
------------------------------
From: Salporin@aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 18:23:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Silent teleporters
>> version of dmaud (v-1.1) doesn't have it. Is it contained in a later
version of it? Is there another program which allows access to it? <<
Ive got DMAUD 1.1, and it's right there. Maybe you're looking for the wrong
thing. It's "Player / monster teleporting."
------------------------------
From: alaric@netcom.com (Phil Stracchino -- The Renaissance Man)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 15:27:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3
> Well [DEU-GCC 5.21] never locked up on me until one of the following
> happened,(i don't know which one)
> 1. I got a new (NICE) 486dx266 motherboard
> 2. My wad grew over 100K.
> 3. I added 4 megs of ram (8total)
> Any ideas?
All three of my WADs are substantially over 100k, and none causes
lockups. Scratch potential cause #2.
I have 16Mb of main memory. Scratch potential cause #3.
My guess is it has something to do with the way memory management on your
system is set up. It could *also* be some odd structure in your WAD;
I've had this happen to me once or twice. I've also once or twice had
just random lockups.
- --
==== Phil Stracchino ==== Santa Clara County Liberty Brigade ====
"If someone who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron."
-- Spider Robinson
===== Finger alaric@netcom.com for PGP public key and key fingerprint =====
------------------------------
From: cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 17:14:04 -0800
Subject: Re: Silent teleporters
>> Well, that would work but for the fact that my version of dmaud doesn't
>> contain the register for the teleporter sound, as well as the fact that
>> the objects involved (teleport landing and teleport flash) do not
>> contain a reference to the sound (look in dehacked). I belive that it is
>> refered to in the frames with the sub table but it doesn't seem to be
>> the same as other sounds. The sound register exists but, as I said, my
>> version of dmaud (v-1.1) doesn't have it. Is it contained in a later
>> version of it? Is there another program which allows access to it?
>> Steve H.B.
>>
>
>I did this a while ago for the DieHard DOOM Project. Don't mess
>with dmaud, just use DeHacked. Change the duration of the first
>teleporter frame to 1, and change it's 'next frame' to 1 (or
>is it 0?, don't matter, look at the last frame and see).
>
>brian
I belive I did try (oops, gotta take out cookies) back, Yea. I tried
that but I'll try it again.
Steve H.B.
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #31
*********************************
