Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 045
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #45
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Wednesday, 9 November 1994 Volume 01 : Number 045
Re: Shareware vendors profiting from DEU.
Re: 'Smear' effect; why and how to alleviate?
Re: Get me off this list
Re: Get me off this list
Re: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
Re: 'Smear' effect; why and how to alleviate?
Get me off this list
LOOK HERE: How to get off the list!
Re: Get me off this list
Re: Get me off this list
Re: Get me off this list
Re: Get me off this list
Re: Get me off this list
Re: 'Smear' effect; why and how to alleviate?
Re: Get me off this list
Re: Get me off this list
Re: Get me off this list
Re: Get me off this list
Re: Get me off this list
Re: Get me off this list
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Carbon-BasedLifeForm <decerman@ouray.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 19:22:37 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Shareware vendors profiting from DEU.
On Tue, 8 Nov 1994 cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu wrote:
> Well Dan, this is the first contribution to this NON EDITING THREAD but
> in my opinion, if they are going to put *your* work on a CD the least
> they can do is send you a copy of the CD. If they can't do that small
> amount of reconsiliation for using your work...
> Steve H.B.
> PS-They can pay the shipping too. CDs are dirt cheap to make and press,
> they're not losing any money.
Yeah, I think that would be the ideal thing to do, though it might be
hard to track down everybody. I think it would be great if they would
send me a CD that used my work. But the least I want is notification. I
want to *know* where my stuff has gone.
You have a good idea there...
__ __
____ /\ \ /\ \ Dan Cerman
/ \ \ / \ \ _\ \ \ University of Colorado at Denver
/ /\ \_\ / /\ \ \ /\_\ \ \
\ \ \ | | \ \/ \_\ \ __ \_\ decerman@ouray.cudenver.edu
\ \/ |_| \ /\/_/ \ \ \/_/
\ / / \ \_\ \ \_\ DOOM II:
\/_/ \/_/ \/_/ Now might be a good time to save.
------------------------------
From: cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 18:29:02 -0800
Subject: Re: 'Smear' effect; why and how to alleviate?
>On Tue, 8 Nov 1994 cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu wrote:
>> Can we get a uuencoded version to look at? Oh, and if you do, don't
>> forget to put world in the distribution. I haven't been seeing things
>> from people here at my alt.doom.binaries site. I'm at CalPoly in CA.
>> Steve H.B.
>
>No, no, no, no. Distribution: lines are exclusive. A server looks at them
>and says "Hmmmm? Am I _not_ in this? Then don't have that article."
>Distribution: world does nothing except prevent the article reaching
>hypothetical wierdly (wrongly) set up sites. The Distribution: line
>should always be left blank if your intent is to post to the whole world.
Okay, okay! I was just trying to figure out why I never get stuff people
from this list post to a.b.d.
>ObDooMEditing: Now I've got a door that should work fine but when I
>activate it the ceiling moves *down* 8 pixels into the floor. What the
>hell is it up to?
Just sounds like you put the wrong line type. What editor are you using.
And are you sure the editors list is correct. Try type number 1. Of
course I don't know exactly what you're trying to do.
Steve H.B.
------------------------------
From: malloy@cts.com (Sean Malloy)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 18:51:53 -0800
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
On Nov 8, 1:56pm, Frederick Bradley wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Nov 1994, Matthew Shea wrote:
> > Hey Steve, get me off this list
> MEE TOOOOOO!
I'm afraid I must add myself to this thread; I find that, with the press of
other responsibilities, I find that I'm unable to keep up with the message
traffic on this mailing list, and as a result dump most of the messages
unread. Please remove me from the list.
- --
random sig #242:
Sean Malloy Naval Medical Center |
San Diego, CA 92134-5000 | Think of it as evolution in action.
malloy@xmail1.ha.osd.mil < different |
malloy@cts.com < systems |
------------------------------
From: gt3026a@prism.gatech.edu
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 22:26:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
> > > Hey Steve, get me off this list
> > MEE TOOOOOO!
I would like off the list as well please.
gt3026a@acme.gatech.edu
- --
"Beep Beep" said the Road Runner.
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 12:31:11 GMT
Subject: Re: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
Matt Ayres said:
>S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner) said...
>> If you have a question but don't know whether it's advanced or not, mail it
>> in the first instance to:
>>
>> Steve Benner : S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk
>
>Steve is God! Well, close enough. ;-)
No, Matt, just a filter. You can stop slaughtering those goats, now: I'm
appeased, OK? ;)
Can a put in an appeal to all of you flooding the list with requests to
leave to mail me personnally if you need help with this: DO NOT JUST USE
REPLY. Thanks.
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 12:49:50 GMT
Subject: Re: 'Smear' effect; why and how to alleviate?
Robert Forsman wrote:
>
> Speakin of node builders. I have a wad that has a switchback staircase and
>I decided rather than use dead space I'd use a linedef with 2 sides that was
>IM,!2S and put textures on the normal. Anyway, BSP seems to do REALLY weird
>things with it. I think I can see through one wall. I'm going to check my
>sidedefs and try to figure out if it's really a 128-linedef problem (highly
>unlikely). If it's really BSP, then I'll have something for the BSP author
>to play with.
Interesting one, this Bob: I've had similar problems with twisty staircases
in large open spaces. Is the "128-linedef problem" - Robert's term not
mine, before someone flames me! - well understood? Tom Neff has described
it as an *edges* problem. Now, I've watched WADED's node builder working
on my twisty staircases (it shows you it working graphically, which is
quite informative) and it has to chop it up into a large number of segs,
etc, simply because nothing's orthogonal. The result is flickers-a-plenty
a la 128-line problem (whatever you want to call it) even though there are
nothing like that number of lines in my entire wad! (It's a tiny test wad
with little more than a twisty staircase) Other node builders give the
same problem (but in slightly different places), so I guess the number of
additional splits is a function of the BSP building algorithm, and that
it's all those extra splits that are causing the 128 limit of whatever it
is to be hit. Anyone know any more on this?
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: poole@eugene.convex.com (Rick Poole)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 08:07:00 -0600
Subject: Get me off this list
> > > Hey Steve, get me off this list
> > MEE TOOOOOO!
>I would like off the list as well please.
Please remove me from the list also.
RP
------------------------------
From: Jens Hedegaard Hykkelbjerg <hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk>
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 16:18:39 MET
Subject: LOOK HERE: How to get off the list!
> > > > Hey Steve, get me off this list
> > > MEE TOOOOOO!
>
> >I would like off the list as well please.
>
> Please remove me from the list also.
>
This does it. I'm tired of these "get me off the list"
posts. Even Steve Benner's beginner's initiative
doesn't seem to have cleared the air.
The mail I received when I first entered the list
contained the following info:
: If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send the
: following command in email to "Majordomo@nvg.unit.no":
:
: unsubscribe doom-editing hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk
Of course your own mail address should be substituted
for "hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk". Instead of "doom-editing" you could
also put "doom-editing-digest" if that's what you are receiving.
If this is not the proper way of getting off
please announce this on the list once and for all.
Jens Hykkelbjerg
- --
Jens Hykkelbjerg | "Civilisation began with the felling
Aarhus Universitet | of the first tree; and, it will end
Email: hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk | with the felling of the last." (NN)
WWW: http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/index.html
------------------------------
From: ffjjd@aurora.alaska.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 06:26:17 +0000
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
>Reply-To: doom-editing@NVG.UNIT.NO
>
>On Nov 8, 1:56pm, Frederick Bradley wrote:
>> On Tue, 8 Nov 1994, Matthew Shea wrote:
>> > Hey Steve, get me off this list
>> MEE TOOOOOO!
>
>I'm afraid I must add myself to this thread; I find that, with the press of
>other responsibilities, I find that I'm unable to keep up with the message
>traffic on this mailing list, and as a result dump most of the messages
>unread. Please remove me from the list.
Soon this point should be moot regardless. I talked with John Van Essen
yesterday and all 5 of the proposed rec.computer.games.doom newsgroups
passed their votes. That included the editing newsgroup. Unless people see
a reason why this mailing list should continue on (and I'm not saying they
won't) then this list will probably be extinct before long.
A newsgroup seems like a far better forum for this type of discussion anyway.
Clint
------------------------------
From: "David Peterson" <himes.16@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 02:22:48 EST
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
In Message Wed, 09 Nov 1994 06:26:17 +0000, ffjjd@aurora.alaska.edu writes:
>Soon this point should be moot regardless. I talked with John Van Essen
>yesterday and all 5 of the proposed rec.computer.games.doom newsgroups
>passed their votes. That included the editing newsgroup. Unless people see
>a reason why this mailing list should continue on (and I'm not saying they
>won't) then this list will probably be extinct before long.
>
>A newsgroup seems like a far better forum for this type of discussion anyway.
I really hope the list isn't trashed. I'd love to get all the Doom groups,
but the University won't allow us to read them without phone charges, and my
Usenet BBS still only has a.g.d., even though I have mentioned the others to
him.
David Peterson
peterson.145@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
The Ohio State University
------------------------------
From: Mike Drechsler <mdrechsl@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 10:56:12 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
> Soon this point should be moot regardless. I talked with John Van Essen
> yesterday and all 5 of the proposed rec.computer.games.doom newsgroups
> passed their votes. That included the editing newsgroup. Unless people see
> a reason why this mailing list should continue on (and I'm not saying they
> won't) then this list will probably be extinct before long.
>
> A newsgroup seems like a far better forum for this type of discussion anyway.
Horray. Although I enjoy the list I kinda hate having to route through
30 messages every day to look for personal messages which might require
more immediate attention. I think you should take the list down when
this new area propagates for about 2 weeks. Then kill it.
- -- Mike Drechsler | "Anarchy may not be the best form
Computing Science | of government, but it's better
University of Alberta | than no government at all."
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 17:19:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
>In Message Wed, 09 Nov 1994 06:26:17 +0000, ffjjd@aurora.alaska.edu writes:
>
>>Soon this point should be moot regardless. I talked with John Van Essen
>>yesterday and all 5 of the proposed rec.computer.games.doom newsgroups
>>passed their votes. That included the editing newsgroup. Unless people see
>>a reason why this mailing list should continue on (and I'm not saying they
>>won't) then this list will probably be extinct before long.
>>
>>A newsgroup seems like a far better forum for this type of discussion anyway.
David Peterson added:
>I really hope the list isn't trashed. I'd love to get all the Doom groups,
>but the University won't allow us to read them without phone charges, and my
>Usenet BBS still only has a.g.d., even though I have mentioned the others to
>him.
>
The same is true of most UK universities: those few who have news servers
generally do not permit student accounts to access them. This means you
will probably cut off all of the subscribers to this list who are from the
.ac.uk domain. I'm open to correction on that though from other UK uni
subscribers...
All of which goes to show just how free everything isn't. ;-)
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: ffjjd@aurora.alaska.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 08:05:53 +0000
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
>I really hope the list isn't trashed. I'd love to get all the Doom groups,
>but the University won't allow us to read them without phone charges, and my
>Usenet BBS still only has a.g.d., even though I have mentioned the others to
>him.
Well actually I don't think the new newsgroups have been created yet so
that might be why your admin hasn't added them yet. But regardless there
may be numerous other very valid reasons for keeping this list and I'm not
suggesting it be elmininated if people have a need for it. However I
suspect once the new groups are formed that the number of subscribers will
drop dramatically because it's much nicer in general to read something with
this volume at your leisure rather than receiving it continually in the
mail.
However I still say that if some people need the list and want to keep it
then it should stay.
Clint
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 14:02:54 EST
Subject: Re: 'Smear' effect; why and how to alleviate?
For those who are curious about my problem, go to ftp.cis.ufl.edu and get
canon4.zip from /pub/thoth/. It's 91K unzipped. Run inside the big
building and look at the end of the hallway. I still haven't had a chance
to thorougly examine my sidedefs (but DEU doesn't complain...).
S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner) ,in message <24840.9411091249@cent1.lan
cs.ac.uk>, wrote:
> Interesting one, this Bob: I've had similar problems with twisty staircases
> in large open spaces.
It's not open. There's a hallway. At the end of a hallway is a window
that looks into the staircase. It's not twisty. There's one flight going
up, a landing with the window, and another flight going up in the opposite
direction (this is a common type of staircase where I come from).
hall landing
window stairs
- ---+ +---+-+-+-
+-+ | | |
| | +-+-+-
+-+ | | |
- ---+ +---+-+-+-
> Is the "128-linedef problem" - Robert's term not
> mine, before someone flames me! - well understood?
We mostly understand it... It is one of many bugs that cause HOM. The
"128-linedef problem" is caused by viewing too many edges. The limit was
increased to 256 around engine version 1.6.
> Tom Neff has described
> it as an *edges* problem.
I first put Tom onto this scent (thanks for confirming it, Tom) after my
experience with pillars in front of a trough. It seems it's not precisely
128 (or 256) linedefs, because an occluding structure can split a linedef
into two visible segments and this seems to make a difference
> same problem (but in slightly different places), so I guess the number of
> additional splits is a function of the BSP building algorithm, and that
> it's all those extra splits that are causing the 128 limit of whatever it
> is to be hit. Anyone know any more on this?
Your problem seems to be of a different nature than mine. (see above
diagram) Good luck :/
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 14:29:23 EST
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
ffjjd@aurora.alaska.edu ,in message <01HJ9KPV17NM94FLJR@VMS.AURORA.ALASKA.EDU>,
wrote:
> Soon this point should be moot regardless. I talked with John Van Essen
> yesterday and all 5 of the proposed rec.computer.games.doom newsgroups
> passed their votes. That included the editing newsgroup. Unless people see
> a reason why this mailing list should continue on (and I'm not saying they
> won't) then this list will probably be extinct before long.
Newsgroups are about as exclusive as a public pool. Every Tom, Dick, and
Wanker will be asking "How come when I try to open the door, the room's
ceiling caves in on me" (sorry, just had to pick on that guy :) Your
linedef is facing the wrong way.)
------------------------------
From: "D.J.S. Damerell" <djsd100@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 20:11:59 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
On Wed, 9 Nov 1994, Steve Benner wrote:
> The same is true of most UK universities: those few who have news servers
> generally do not permit student accounts to access them. This means you
> will probably cut off all of the subscribers to this list who are from the
> .ac.uk domain. I'm open to correction on that though from other UK uni
> subscribers...
Well, it isn't true of Cambridge, _actually_, but I still would not
welcome the closure of the list. agd.editing will probably bes tuffed
with newbie questions.
David Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djsd100@cus.cam.ac.uk RL: Trinity, Cambridge
WOODHAL2.WAD on infant2. CUWoCS President. METLMAZE.WAD sometime soonish.
|___| All people's aims are unreachable, and their struggles futile. |___|
| | | When you see this true of your own aims, life becomes a vacuum. | | |
------------------------------
From: sky@verity.com (Sky Golightly)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 12:24:40 -0800
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
> On Nov 9, 10:56, Mike Drechsler wrote:
> > Soon this point should be moot regardless. I talked with John Van Essen
> > yesterday and all 5 of the proposed rec.computer.games.doom newsgroups
> > passed their votes. That included the editing newsgroup. Unless people see
> > a reason why this mailing list should continue on (and I'm not saying they
> > won't) then this list will probably be extinct before long.
> >
> > A newsgroup seems like a far better forum for this type of discussion anyway.
>
> Horray. Although I enjoy the list I kinda hate having to route through
> 30 messages every day to look for personal messages which might require
> more immediate attention. I think you should take the list down when
> this new area propagates for about 2 weeks. Then kill it.
>
> -- Mike Drechsler | "Anarchy may not be the best form
> Computing Science | of government, but it's better
> University of Alberta | than no government at all."
>
>-- End of excerpt from Mike Drechsler
I heartily disagree. Those who wish to slog through news, can. Frankly
I prefer having this list in my mailbox.
- -- sky
------------------------------
From: btodorof@hmc.edu (Brian Todoroff)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 13:29:37 -0800
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
>>Reply-To: doom-editing@NVG.UNIT.NO
>>
>>On Nov 8, 1:56pm, Frederick Bradley wrote:
>>> On Tue, 8 Nov 1994, Matthew Shea wrote:
>>> > Hey Steve, get me off this list
>>> MEE TOOOOOO!
>>
>>I'm afraid I must add myself to this thread; I find that, with the press of
>>other responsibilities, I find that I'm unable to keep up with the message
>>traffic on this mailing list, and as a result dump most of the messages
>>unread. Please remove me from the list.
>
>Soon this point should be moot regardless. I talked with John Van Essen
>yesterday and all 5 of the proposed rec.computer.games.doom newsgroups
>passed their votes. That included the editing newsgroup. Unless people see
>a reason why this mailing list should continue on (and I'm not saying they
>won't) then this list will probably be extinct before long.
>
>A newsgroup seems like a far better forum for this type of discussion anyway.
>
>Clint
I personaly would like to see this continue as the ADVANCED editing forum
it was ment to be, the editing newsgroup should be able to take alot of the
'newbie' posts away though.
Brian
Brian Todoroff
Harvey Mudd College
Class of '97
btodorof@hmc.edu
------------------------------
From: ffjjd@aurora.alaska.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 12:52:14 +0000
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
> Newsgroups are about as exclusive as a public pool. Every Tom, Dick, and
>Wanker will be asking "How come when I try to open the door, the room's
>ceiling caves in on me" (sorry, just had to pick on that guy :) Your
>linedef is facing the wrong way.)
This is true but just how much exlusivity is enough? We've already got a
newsgroup for DOOM. Now we've got one for DOOM editing. Are you saying that
this is not enough and that you would also like one for
doom.advanced.editing? And as you illustrated in your message above, this
list itself is in no way insulated from completely newbie posts. I myself
fired one off a couple months ago as soon as I joined the list. Furthermore
there can be no question that there *will* be advanced editing topics
discussed in the newsgroup. Afterall the newsgroup is dedicated to editing.
I guess my final question would be even if there are newbie posts could
there possibly be enough of them to make the newsgroup unmanageable? I
strongly doubt it. Who among us is not advanced enough to be able to
navigate our way through a newsgroup that most likely will be anwhere from
one quarter to one twentieth the size of the current a.g.doom? Surely you
will be able to determine from the subject headings on most posts whether
it is a newbie or advanced question. It seems like the exclusivity angle
doesn't really hold up (no offense intended).
However I feel for the people who cannot get or who have to pay for the
newsgroups. Perhaps for these people alone this list should be kept going.
Plus that way if people want to have a super-duper, advanced, elite,
illuminati type editing list they can still have it (just kidding around,
don't start flaming yet).
If the interest is still there and people are willing to do the work then
perhaps this list should continue on. It will answer for itself before long
whether it is warranted. If the membership here falls to nil then it will
be difficult to sustain if it sustains then it takes care of itself.
Clint
Now you may start flaming.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Ayres <ayres@cdrom.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 13:54:21 -0800
Subject: Re: Get me off this list
Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu> said...
>ffjjd@aurora.alaska.edu ,in message <01HJ9KPV17NM94FLJR@VMS.AURORA.ALASKA.EDU>
>,
> wrote:
>
>> Soon this point should be moot regardless. I talked with John Van Essen
>> yesterday and all 5 of the proposed rec.computer.games.doom newsgroups
>> passed their votes. That included the editing newsgroup. Unless people see
>> a reason why this mailing list should continue on (and I'm not saying they
>> won't) then this list will probably be extinct before long.
>
> Newsgroups are about as exclusive as a public pool. Every Tom, Dick, and
>Wanker will be asking "How come when I try to open the door, the room's
>ceiling caves in on me" (sorry, just had to pick on that guy :) Your
>linedef is facing the wrong way.)
I agree. If you look over the existing alt.games.doom newsgroup, there's
literally thousands of stupid posts and newbie questions. And topics
never seem to die down because someone else has rediscovered something.
There are so many posts, it's hard to read them all, especially when 90%
of them are about the same stupid thing.
-Matt A.
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #45
*********************************
