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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 056
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #56
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 17 November 1994 Volume 01 : Number 056
Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
Re: Q: Animated switches
Re: The rec.games.computer.do...
Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
Re: Q: Animated switches
Re: Q: Animated switches
Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
Re: Info Request: DOOM save buffer
Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 17:37:05 -0800
Subject: Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
>2) I would like to know what you guys think about having this group
>gated into r.g.c.d.editing. My personal, although preliminary, opinion
>on this subject is that I don't think I would like it. There is a
>feeling here of relaxed discussion that doesn't usually exist in a
>newsgroup. I believe that knowing that your message will be gated into
>a public forum will cause us to self-censor our opinions. Let me know
>what you think.
I think the list gated would be a bad idea. It would basically mean a
complicated way of making the list just part of the newsgroup. If it's
kept as it is, as you said, it would be kept relatively pure from the
drivel that goes on in a.g.d.
>I would be happy to listen to any and all opinions on these matters.
>You are welcome to use the list to answer if you think your opinion is
>of general interest. Thanks for your time.
Steve H.B.
------------------------------
From: cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 17:49:20 -0800
Subject: Re: Q: Animated switches
>Steve wrote:
>Steve H.B. wrote:
>> I belive that all a switch texture is is a animated wall that does not
>> start its loop till triggered and only runs the loop once before
>> reseting.
>>
>Unfortunately, I don't think this is right at all. A switch texture is
>just two standard textures, one of which is displayed before the switch
>is hit, and the other after. Correct?
Well, it seems to me that in the textures file the switch graphics are
shown in a cenvention that is identical to all other animated textures
except for the sw naming convention. I haven't had time to play around
with it yet but it looks like if you were to insert more textures
between the two (sw1 sw2) you would get a longer animation instead of a
2 frame animation.
>> If this were the case then any animation either a) put on a
>> linedef with a switch type would react only when triggered (gonna try
>> it to see if any old animation will do)
>>
>I think unless the switch has a switch texture there is no visible
>response. But this is just speculation.
I belive that switch textures need to use the sw naming convention. I'll
need to test it more when I have more time.
>> or b) same as before but only
>> with things using the naming convention. I'm not sure about 'a' but 'b'
>> should be correct. I'm gonna play with it, I'll post results. Comments?
>>
>OK, but won't it continue to animate until the switch returns to its
>original state (by whatever means)? Play away.
I don't think so. Basically it goes through only one animation cycle,
non repeating. In this case with the switches it is frozen on it's first
frame, and when activated animates till the last and then stops. In the
case of a two frame animation the first would always show, then animate
to the last (and only other) frame and the freeze at the last, having
finished a cycle till it was reset. What I am getting at here is you
could have a 5 frame animated switch, making sure the first is what you
want as the default and the last what you want until it resets, the
in-between should run through once and freeze until reset and
re-activated. If it works there would be some rather interesting
possibilites. You heard it here first if it works. I think I'll go play.
Steve H.B.
------------------------------
From: Salporin@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 06:33:02 -0500
Subject: Re: The rec.games.computer.do...
>> 2) I would like to know what you guys think about having this group
gated into r.g.c.d.editing. My personal, although preliminary, opinion
on this subject is that I don't think I would like it. There is a
feeling here of relaxed discussion that doesn't usually exist in a
newsgroup. I believe that knowing that your message will be gated into
a public forum will cause us to self-censor our opinions. Let me know
what you think. <<
No! What makes this list so special is that it's NOT a public discussion,
it's a small group of knowledgable people who don't waste bandwidth on
matters that aren't of interest to the group (for the most part). If people
want a newsgroup that gets 200+ messages a day, let them read r.c.g.d.e! But
if they want discussion of advanced editing that is almost always on subject
and always informative, that's what this list is for!
------------------------------
From: Salporin@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 06:33:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
>> Also, I believe there are some copyright ramifications to releasing a
PWAD with Id textures in it (as well as the potential issues with Deutex
itself, Oliver, please sign and send in the copyright agreement). Oh
well, its all done with good intentions so I really doubt any law suits
are forth coming. <<
I was just talking with Raphael Quinet about this (I know he's on this list,
but I'll post it for him so he can spend his time getting DEU 5.3 out :).
Here's what he said:
- ----- begin included message -----
From: eedraq@chapelle.eed.ericsson.se (Raphael Quinet)
To: Salporin@aol.com
> Sorry to bother you, but I'll make it quick. Do I need to sign a license
> with id to release Star Wars DOOM? Did the guy who made AliensTC have to?
I already replied to this, but I just received something new...
Jay Wilbur (CEO of Id Software) sent this to the authors of Aliens-TC, who
were asking if they could distribute Aliens-TC, which includes some textures
from Doom:
- ----- begin included message -----
No.
In fact I want nothing to do with the Alien's patch. Have you guys talked to
20th Century Fox about this? I am sure they are not happy and I suggest you
call them and getting a release before shipping.
- ----- end included message -----
You have to make sure that you don't include any textures from the original
DOOM.WAD file if you release your patch. The authors of Aliens-TC included
several registered textures along with the modified ones. It looks like
Jay didn't like it. They are now creating new textures and will re-release
Aliens-TC without the offending ones.
Jay's message also implies that you won't have to sign a license with Id as
long as your patch includes nothing from the original Doom files. But you
could have some problems with LucasFilms or anybody who owns the Star Wars
trademark... Be careful about this.
- -Raphael
P.S.: Feel free to send a copy of my message to anyone who could be
interested.
- ----- end included message -----
That's exactly what I did, Raphael. :)
It appears that even though it is done with "good intentions," you still need
to follow id's rules. They say don't distribute their textures, I'm not
going to. I'd take this very seriously, especially since we all know that
they love all the edited DOOM stuff that gets out, so when they say don't
release something, they must mean it. Jay Wilbur did not sound happy at all
in the above message...
------------------------------
From: Salporin@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 06:33:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Q: Animated switches
>> A switch texture is
just two standard textures, one of which is displayed before the switch
is hit, and the other after. Correct? <<
That's what I've always thought. It certainly _appears_ that way. I know
that it works if you replace those two textures, too.
------------------------------
From: brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 09:58:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Q: Animated switches
>
>
> I don't think so. Basically it goes through only one animation cycle,
> non repeating. In this case with the switches it is frozen on it's first
> frame, and when activated animates till the last and then stops. In the
> case of a two frame animation the first would always show, then animate
> to the last (and only other) frame and the freeze at the last, having
> finished a cycle till it was reset. What I am getting at here is you
> could have a 5 frame animated switch, making sure the first is what you
> want as the default and the last what you want until it resets, the
> in-between should run through once and freeze until reset and
> re-activated. If it works there would be some rather interesting
> possibilites. You heard it here first if it works. I think I'll go play.
> Steve H.B.
>
Now wait. First off, not to be nit-picky, but I came up with the
animated switch idea. I really doubt you can have a 5frame switch since
sandwhiching in frames doesn't work for switches. For instance, in my
deutex file, I have all the sw1s in a "switch" switch section. Some
of the sw2 are further down in my file with the animated textures.
If you could sandwhich animations between sw textures, I would have
seen something screwy by now.
brian
------------------------------
From: Hurricane/MACS ROT!!!!!!! <bhume@is.dal.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 11:21:21 -0400 (AST)
Subject: Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
On Tue, 15 Nov 1994, John Wakelin wrote:
> The reason I joined this list was to participate in intelligent,
> creative and productive discussion about my favorite addiction. That
> addiction is DOOM editing. I have found that this list serves that
> need EXTREAMLY well. I agree that the mailing list medium is
> difficult to deal with and keep up with, but for me it has been a labor of
> love. I have been on the list for about half a year now and have
> never once thought about UNSCRIBEing :) I feel that the difficulty
> associated with it is part of the reason that there are <mostly> only
> serious level designers here. Even the newbies are still fairly
> serious about what they are trying to do and the ones that aren't
> don't stick around. I like this list and am very happy with it's
> current membership, if it goes to someplace where that would become a
> lot different, I won't follow. I don't visit a.g.d. at all anymore and I'm sure
> that the same thing would happen with r.g.c.d.e or whatever.
I, too, would like to see the list and newsgroups kept seperate. I'm
still a true newbie, I haven't even made a real level yet. But I like
this list because I can actually sit and learn from everybody else. I
don't say much, because I have little to add. But I can trust that
everything in here has to do with editing DOOM- not the sporatic "DOOM
SUCKS!" postings and the hundred replies. I can figure out how to make
doors on my own...but this is the place where I can learn some of the
REAL cool stuff.
} Brandon "Hurricane" Hume {
{ bhume@is.dal.ca|Brandon.Hume@viocomm.alt.ns.ca|Hurricane@alt.tbbs.ns.ca }
} "Without honor, there can be no true victory... {
{ With honor, there is no real defeat." }
\_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_/
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 11:19:49 EST
Subject: Re: Info Request: DOOM save buffer
"D.J.S. Damerell" <djsd100@cus.cam.ac.uk> ,in message <Pine.SUN.3.91.9411152224
26.28337A-100000@grus.cus.cam.ac.uk>, wrote:
> Are you sure that the save threshold isn't just a matter of the number of
> Things - maybe critters taking up more? Watch this space: determination
> of exact value will follow...
I'm told that sector state info is also stored. Otherwise, moats would
load up un-filled. Open doors would be shut again.
I need a second machine and some kind of PC NFS that DOOM doesn't lock up
with.
------------------------------
From: quinet@stud.montefiore.ulg.ac.be (Raphael Quinet)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 18:38:19 +0100
Subject: Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
> Jay Wilbur (CEO of Id Software) sent this to the authors of Aliens-TC, who
> were asking if they could distribute Aliens-TC, which includes some textures
> from Doom:
>
[...]
Just a short comment about this: it was not related to the original Aliens-TC
distribution, but to "Aliens-TC for Doom II", which includes some textures
from Doom 1 that are not in Doom II. The original message was kindly
forwarded to me by Olivier Montannuy, who asked the question to Jay Wilbur.
I think Id Software should make this point clear: if including copyrighted
material (i.e. the textures) from DOOM.WAD is illegal, then some WADs such
as DOOM1-2.WAD are illegal. Jay's message implied this, but I would like
a clear statement about this.
> Jay Wilbur did not sound happy at all
> in the above message...
>
Jay is usually a bit picky about legal issues. That's his job. :-)
- -Raphael
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Finger: finger quinet@finger.montefiore.ulg.ac.be for some useless info. |
| Mosaic: http://www.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~quinet (NEW: preview of DEU 5.3) |
| E-mail: eedraq@chapelle.ericsson.se or quinet@montefiore.ulg.ac.be |
| S-mail: Raphael Quinet, 9 rue des Martyrs, 4550 Nandrin (Belgium) |
| or: Raphael Quinet, Kapuzinergraben 2, 52062 Aachen (Germany) |
| --* Send your questions about DEU to: Deu_Help@boblab1.bobst.nyu.edu *-- |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 18:10:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
There seems to be some confusion over Jay Wilbur's refusal to sanction
Aliens-TC:
>----- begin included message -----
>No.
>
>In fact I want nothing to do with the Alien's patch. Have you guys talked to
>20th Century Fox about this? I am sure they are not happy and I suggest you
>call them and getting a release before shipping.
>----- end included message -----
This doesn't say that Jay's unhappy about id's texture patches being
released: it says he's unhappy about id sanctioning the release of anything
which is trading on *some-else's* trade marks and copyright -- in this case
20th Century Fox's ownership of all things Alien-related (and, in another
message, Lucasfilm's ownership of all things StarWars related). The last
thing id wants is companies the size of these giants jumping on them for
sanctioning mis-appropriation of those companies marques. id probably
won't sue you for passing around their texture patches (though don't blame
me if they do) but you can be damned sure 20th Century Fox WILL sue id for
telling some-one it was OK to use the word ALIEN on something without
paying them royalties!
id, as a company, may be truly enlightened. Unfortunately, it still has to
swim in shark-infested waters.
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: Josh_Howard@horacemann.pvt.k12.ny.us (Josh Howard)
Date: 15 Nov 1994 10:33:49 GMT
Subject: Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
I agree with you one hundred percent. When I read my mail, I try to keep it as
private as possible.
------------------------------
From: Salporin@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 17:56:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
>> Just a short comment about this: it was not related to the original
Aliens-TC
distribution, but to "Aliens-TC for Doom II", which includes some textures
from Doom 1 that are not in Doom II. <<
Ok, that would answer my question as to "why in the world would they
distribute original DOOM textures with their patch in the first place?"
>> I think Id Software should make this point clear: if including
copyrighted
material (i.e. the textures) from DOOM.WAD is illegal, then some WADs such
as DOOM1-2.WAD are illegal. Jay's message implied this, but I would like
a clear statement about this. <<
I agree strongly. That's why I asked about it in the first place: nowhere
was it clearly stated exactly _what_ could and couldn't be done.
>> Jay is usually a bit picky about legal issues. That's his job. :-) <<
Oh, I see... :)
------------------------------
From: Salporin@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 17:57:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
>> This doesn't say that Jay's unhappy about id's texture patches being
released: it says he's unhappy about id sanctioning the release of anything
which is trading on *some-else's* trade marks and copyright -- in this case
20th Century Fox's ownership of all things Alien-related <<
Ok, I can see how you get that from his message. However, if that's the
case, then why did Raphael say they were releasing another version that
didn't have the original DOOM textures?
>> (and, in another
message, Lucasfilm's ownership of all things StarWars related). <<
I think you misunderstood my "quote-by-hand" quoting system. The part about
a Lucasfilm liscense for SW stuff was Raphael warning me, not Jay warning
Oliver.
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #56
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