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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 054
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #54
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Tuesday, 15 November 1994 Volume 01 : Number 054
Re: Alien TC for DOOM2 released!
Re: Alien TC for DOOM2 released!
The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
DeuTex 2.8 for Linux is out!
Re: Q: Animated switches
Re: Q: Animated switches
Info Request: DOOM save buffer
Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
news-group
Re: Info Request: DOOM save buffer
Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
Re: DOOM save buffer
Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
news-group
Re: DOOM save buffer
Re: Info Request: DOOM save buffer
Re: DOOM save buffer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sky@verity.com (Sky Golightly)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 18:36:40 -0800
Subject: Re: Alien TC for DOOM2 released!
Somebody beat me to it. atc2* is already on ftp.orst.edu.
- -- sky
------------------------------
From: sky@verity.com (Sky Golightly)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 18:39:11 -0800
Subject: Re: Alien TC for DOOM2 released!
> On Nov 14, 15:46, Matthew Ayres wrote:
> sky@verity.com (Sky Golightly) said...
> >> On Nov 14, 21:18, Raphael Quinet wrote:
> >> > Thanx to the great work of Jason Mezzacca, Alien-TC for
> >> > DOOM 2 is now on ftp.cdrom.com.
> >> [...]
> >> > I hope they won't delete them. Anyone can mail them?
> >> > I can't seem to reach ftp.cdrom.com now my net has closed for the night
> >> >
> >> > Olivier Montanuy
> >> >
> >> Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the files will be deleted tonight,
> >> no matter how much mail is sent to the ftp admins of ftp.cdrom.com.
> >>
> >> This site was mirroring infant2, and is now probably mirroring ftp.orst.edu
> >> (the temporary replacement for the defunct infant2). The mirroring software
> >> will automatically delete all files that are not present on the server
> >> being mirrored.
> >>
> >> I think the only solution is to put the files on ftp.orst.edu before they
> >> are deleted on ftp.cdrom.com. It looks like Olivier cannot do it now.
> >> Neither can I. Someone should. If you are reading this and you can use
> >> FTP, you know what to do in the next minute...
> >>
> >> A request to Olivier: next time, please release your programs on the main
> >> server, not on one mirror. You should also change your sig (about DeuTex).
> >> Otherwise, the programs will just be deleted again. Ce n'est pas grave,
> >> mais ca pourrait etre genant... :-)
>
> >I have ftp access. Unless I hear otherwise, by 5pm PT, I will do the transfer
> >(if possible).
>
> You've heard otherwise ;-)
>
> -Matt A.
>-- End of excerpt from Matthew Ayres
Now if only I had seen this e-mail before I started the emergency ftp.
:) Oh well.
- -- sky
------------------------------
From: Tom.Holmes%224@satlink.oau.org (Tom Holmes)
Date: 15 Nov 94 10:50:03 -0500
Subject: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
al> rec.games.computer.doom.editing
al> This should be used to discuss editing of wads, patches for the
al> .EXE of doom and DOOM II, and other issues dealing with the
al> creation of third-party add ons for doom used for editing or
al> patching .WAD and .EXE files and similar activities generally
al> related to editing files for DOOM and DOOM II.
al> There is also a mailing list; the list may or may not eventually
al> be cross-posted or unidirectionally posted to this news group.
Hi guys. I just wanted to set a few things straight with regard to this
subject. I've noticed that a few people have been kicking around the
eventual fate of this mailing list, so here we go:
1) As long as there is a demand for this mailing list, I will continue
to make it available. There are a number of reasons that I believe that
r.g.c.d.editing isn't a suitable replacement for this list:
a) While we've had our moments of disagreement and the occasional
flame-fest here, on the whole it has been very focused and civil. As we
all know, these conditions can't exist on an unmoderated newsgroup.
b) Subscribing to the list requires an effort, a fact which discourages
most of the barn-stormers and casual readers from gaining access. This
tends to keep the list fairly pure.
c) Most of us enjoy posting to a (relatively) small audience of
knowledgeable, intelligent people who share our passion. We also enjoy
*not* having to wade through three-hundred messages to find a few worth
reading.
2) I would like to know what you guys think about having this group
gated into r.g.c.d.editing. My personal, although preliminary, opinion
on this subject is that I don't think I would like it. There is a
feeling here of relaxed discussion that doesn't usually exist in a
newsgroup. I believe that knowing that your message will be gated into
a public forum will cause us to self-censor our opinions. Let me know
what you think.
I would be happy to listen to any and all opinions on these matters.
You are welcome to use the list to answer if you think your opinion is
of general interest. Thanks for your time.
Tom Holmes, Caretaker - doom-editing mailing list
- --- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
- --
|Fidonet: Tom Holmes 1:363/224
|Internet: Tom.Holmes%224@satlink.oau.org
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.
| From C.F.Satlink +1-407-240-7781 (ANSI or Vt-100 _required_).
------------------------------
From: Olivier Montanuy <montanuy@LANNION.cnet.fr>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 11:43:43 +0100
Subject: DeuTex 2.8 for Linux is out!
Thanks to Per Allansson, DeuTex/DeuSF 2.8 is out for
linux also (I pray it works, I cannot test).
Of course, the Linux detractors can always try the
DOS, Windoze, OS/2 or SUN (unix) versions...
ftp.orst.edu, ...infant2.../incoming
Olivier Montanuy
------------------------------
From: "S. McCrea" <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 13:09:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Q: Animated switches
Steve H.B. wrote:
> I belive that all a switch texture is is a animated wall that does not
> start its loop till triggered and only runs the loop once before
> reseting.
>
Unfortunately, I don't think this is right at all. A switch texture is
just two standard textures, one of which is displayed before the switch
is hit, and the other after. Correct?
> If this were the case then any animation either a) put on a
> linedef with a switch type would react only when triggered (gonna try
> it to see if any old animation will do)
>
I think unless the switch has a switch texture there is no visible
response. But this is just speculation.
> or b) same as before but only
> with things using the naming convention. I'm not sure about 'a' but 'b'
> should be correct. I'm gonna play with it, I'll post results. Comments?
>
OK, but won't it continue to animate until the switch returns to its
original state (by whatever means)? Play away.
Steve.
------------------------------
From: brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 09:12:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Q: Animated switches
>
> I belive that all a switch texture is is a animated wall that does not
> start its loop till triggered and only runs the loop once before
> reseting. If this were the case then any animation either a) put on a
> linedef with a switch type would react only when triggered (gonna try
> it to see if any old animation will do) or b) same as before but only
> with things using the naming convention. I'm not sure about 'a' but 'b'
> should be correct. I'm gonna play with it, I'll post results. Comments?
> Steve H.B.
>
Hey Steve, while your at it you can also try using an animated
texture with sw1 buried in it and see if it still switches to
sw2. maybe it will only switch after you pressed open AND it
comes around to sw1.
brian
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 14:14:12 GMT
Subject: Info Request: DOOM save buffer
Does any-one know any rules of thumb for determining when you've got so
much in your WAD that it won't save during play? Is it just a case of play
it and see? Is this something a consistency checker could check for (no
mention in Bob's Consistency Checker...)? If anyone has any info I'd be
grateful - mail me privately if you don't think it'll interest the list.
- -Steve
Steve Benner, IEBS, Lancaster University, Lancaster, UK
Voice:+44 (0)1524 593938 Fax: 593985 <-*NEW* S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk
http://cres1.lancs.ac.uk/~esasb1/index.html
GS/CS(AT$) d? -H+@ s !g p? k? au+ a w+ v(*) C++(++++)$ U--- N K- W++@$ M*$
V-- po- Y+ t+ 5+ j? R* G? tv* b+ D++>D+++ B? e++ u++(*) h- f r+++ n+++ y+++
======= WADSTERS: Check out http://cres1.lancs.ac.uk/~esasb1/doom/ ========
------------------------------
From: Christopher Wise <WISE@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 18:53:32 GMT+1100
Subject: Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
I agree, with you Tom. Also I think gating (if that's the commonly
used term; I've never heard it before) is a bad idea since I would
have to read the same message twice (if I get r.g.c.d.e). If
something is important enough to be posted to both places there is
nothing stopping an individual from doing so but to do it
automatically would be a bad idea.
Chris Wise
p.s.
Could some kind soul please post a list of all the textures that are
in doom 1 but not in doom 2.
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 15:20:27 GMT
Subject: Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
Chris Wise wrote:
>I agree, with you Tom. Also I think gating (if that's the commonly
>used term; I've never heard it before) is a bad idea since I would
>have to read the same message twice (if I get r.g.c.d.e). If
>something is important enough to be posted to both places there is
>nothing stopping an individual from doing so but to do it
>automatically would be a bad idea.
I'll add my voice to this too. I agree with Tom entirely and also with Chris.
>p.s.
>Could some kind soul please post a list of all the textures that are
>in doom 1 but not in doom 2.
and maybe vice versa too?
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 09:55:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: news-group
I vote to keep this list. The idiots over at the doom editing
news group are bothering me already. I posted a letter to see if
anyone had any of Romero's posts about certain linedefs and stuff,
some said get dmspecs (duh) and a few others sent me personal mail
asking where to find an editor! And the 'how do you make a door?'
and 'what editor works with doom2?' has already started. Please
keep this list and the news group as separate as possible.
brian
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 10:52:27 EST
Subject: Re: Info Request: DOOM save buffer
S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner) ,in message <7982.9411151414@cent1.lanc
s.ac.uk>, wrote:
> Does any-one know any rules of thumb for determining when you've got so
> much in your WAD that it won't save during play? Is it just a case of play
> it and see? Is this something a consistency checker could check for (no
> mention in Bob's Consistency Checker...)?
Well, to follow a precedent started by someone else,
I'd give it 5 stars and demand access to the DOOM engine source code
before I tried to write such a check.
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 11:17:05 -0500
Subject: Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
> Hi guys. I just wanted to set a few things straight with regard to this
> subject. I've noticed that a few people have been kicking around the
> eventual fate of this mailing list, so here we go:
>
> 1) As long as there is a demand for this mailing list, I will continue
> to make it available. There are a number of reasons that I believe that
> r.g.c.d.editing isn't a suitable replacement for this list:
>
> a) While we've had our moments of disagreement and the occasional
> flame-fest here, on the whole it has been very focused and civil. As we
> all know, these conditions can't exist on an unmoderated newsgroup.
>
> b) Subscribing to the list requires an effort, a fact which discourages
> most of the barn-stormers and casual readers from gaining access. This
> tends to keep the list fairly pure.
>
> c) Most of us enjoy posting to a (relatively) small audience of
> knowledgeable, intelligent people who share our passion. We also enjoy
> *not* having to wade through three-hundred messages to find a few worth
> reading.
>
> 2) I would like to know what you guys think about having this group
> gated into r.g.c.d.editing. My personal, although preliminary, opinion
> on this subject is that I don't think I would like it. There is a
> feeling here of relaxed discussion that doesn't usually exist in a
> newsgroup. I believe that knowing that your message will be gated into
> a public forum will cause us to self-censor our opinions. Let me know
> what you think.
>
> I would be happy to listen to any and all opinions on these matters.
> You are welcome to use the list to answer if you think your opinion is
> of general interest. Thanks for your time.
>
> Tom Holmes, Caretaker - doom-editing mailing list
I have pointed this out in the past, but I think it would serve here
as well.
The reason I joined this list was to participate in intelligent,
creative and productive discussion about my favorite addiction. That
addiction is DOOM editing. I have found that this list serves that
need EXTREAMLY well. I agree that the mailing list medium is
difficult to deal with and keep up with, but for me it has been a labor of
love. I have been on the list for about half a year now and have
never once thought about UNSCRIBEing :) I feel that the difficulty
associated with it is part of the reason that there are <mostly> only
serious level designers here. Even the newbies are still fairly
serious about what they are trying to do and the ones that aren't
don't stick around. I like this list and am very happy with it's
current membership, if it goes to someplace where that would become a
lot different, I won't follow. I don't visit a.g.d. at all anymore and I'm sure
that the same thing would happen with r.g.c.d.e or whatever.
Consider this a vote of support Tom.
John
DEATHMATCH WADS "R" US
Author: LURKER.WAD & DBLCROSS.WAD (Well that's all I'm admiting to)
__________________________________________________________
John Wakelin | johnw@datametrics.com
Datametrics Systems Corp. | Ph. 703 385 7700 x341
12150 East Monument Dr. Ste 300 | Fax 703 385 7711
Fairfax, VA. 22033 USA |
------------------------------
From: Scott Parker <parker@dorite>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 09:03:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
Well stated.
------------------------------
From: Paul Francis Turnbull <stenger@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 11:57:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Textures in Doom1 not Doom2
Get Doom1-2.wad from ftp.cdrom.com in /NEWSTUFF (or most any Doom site).
It has all the textures from Doom1 that are not in Doom2. If you want
the list you can use Oliver's excellent utility, Deutex. You can add
the textures your PWAD uses that aren't in Doom2 to make it compatible
with Doom2. (Don't forget about changing the eXmY format to mapX.)
Deutex will also make it possible to generate a PWAD with all the textures
in Doom2 that are not in Doom1 but I don't think that has been uploaded.
Also, I believe there are some copyright ramifications to releasing a
PWAD with Id textures in it (as well as the potential issues with Deutex
itself, Oliver, please sign and send in the copyright agreement). Oh
well, its all done with good intentions so I really doubt any law suits
are forth coming.
Paul Turnbull
stenger@engin.umich.edu
creator of Mayan666.wad
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier (++49-228-550-247) <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 19:11:12 +0100
Subject: Re: DOOM save buffer
> > Does any-one know any rules of thumb for determining when you've got so
> > much in your WAD that it won't save during play? Is it just a case of play
> I'd give it 5 stars and demand access to the DOOM engine source code
> before I tried to write such a check.
>
Dunno. Depends on the source (ouch ;-).
Seriously, I haven't done anything on the DSG format since 1.2, but at
least *some* information is/was known already. For each player, you'd
need 276 bytes in 1.2, AFAIRC (maybe 4 bytes more for the new shotgun,
maybe some more changes, i.e. player below door savegame bug, prior 1.4).
In addition, each THING needed 151 bytes in 1.2 (this will have to
include projectiles as well). I think nobody has bothered to hack the
level related info (i.e. height of raising/lowering elevators/ceilings/
stairs, doors). There will probably be a small DSG section in the next
UDS.
On the other hand, the 1.666 README says the savegame buffer size
has been increased to 64 KB since 1.5.
Workaround: Some WAD authors have succesfully tried to remove some
furniture from their levels (e.g. ALIENS TC). Just remove *all*
things (THINGS with required multiplayer/deathmatch start positions
only), create a DSG (i.e. save :), and use (64KB-file_size)/151
as an intial amount of things possible in your WAD.
It should be possible to create some really small (i.e. minimal)
WADs, with all coordinates used only once, and adding THINGS, having
a polite monster providing a single fireball, inserting a single door
etc., to reveal the DSG file structure. As soon as the record size
for level state data is known, one should be able to guesstimate
the DSG file size, and keep it safely below 64 KB (remember: loads
of projectiles :).
Some months ago (1.2), I collected some DSG data, as I thought about
using a DSG file instead of a PWAD for RanDOOM-like customization
(possibly smaller files, more degrees of freedom - imagine those
projectiles heading for player starts :-). If anybody is interested,
feel free to contact me (read: I abandoned this ;-).
B.
P.S.: imagine Id would be so nice to provide some info on savegame
record structure. They *had* provided netgame packet info ( == LMP),
long ago, remember?
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Bernd Kreimeier THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY
bernd@nero.uni-bonn.de LEFT BLANK ...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: ffjjd@aurora.alaska.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 09:26:16 +0000
Subject: Re: The rec.games.computer.doom.* groups are now available
There is no question that there is quite a bit of support for this list and
there are many who want to see it continue on. Personally I have no problem
with this at all. My thought originally was that I would stay subscribed
and if the list dwindled and vanished then that would be that. It doesn't
sound like this is going to happen so most likely messages will continue to
show up in my mail box and I will read the ones I'm interested in.
I do see a difference between a list like this and a newsgroup. The list is
more intimate, immediate and perhaps more focused. It's also *faster*. You
can ask a question and get it answered the same afternoon. The turnaround
time is superior to that of a newsgroup it seems.
Also a list *feels* different. It has more of a club feel than a newsgroup
which has more of a wide open spaces feel. This distinction is important to
some and will likely contribute to the survival of the list.
Added together with the fact that some don't get news and/or have to pay
for it and you've got a lot of reasons for the list to continue on and it
sounds to me like it will.
So then, in closing, it would appear that both of the editing forums (this
list and the new newsgroup) will live on and thrive. I'm happy with this.
Clint
------------------------------
From: mark.mathews@channel1.com (Mark Mathews)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 13:56:00 -0400
Subject: news-group
I vote a loud YES to keep this mailing list.
Mark Mathews
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 14:33:17 EST
Subject: Re: DOOM save buffer
Bernd Kreimeier (++49-228-550-247) <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de> ,in messa
ge <199411151811.TAA25245@goblin.nero.uni-bonn.de>, wrote:
> > I'd give it 5 stars and demand access to the DOOM engine source code
> > before I tried to write such a check.
...
> Seriously, I haven't done anything on the DSG format since 1.2, but at
> least *some* information is/was known already. For each player, you'd
Holy shit. I didn't realize we had that much information. If someone
spent a week hacking the rest of this info then I'd downgrade the check to 2
stars and put it in my editor when the time came.
> the DSG file size, and keep it safely below 64 KB (remember: loads
> of projectiles :).
All those who save with multiple fireballs in the air please raise their
hands...
------------------------------
From: Matthew Ayres <ayres@cdrom.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 13:39:41 -0800
Subject: Re: Info Request: DOOM save buffer
S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner) said...
>Does any-one know any rules of thumb for determining when you've got so
>much in your WAD that it won't save during play? Is it just a case of play
>it and see? Is this something a consistency checker could check for (no
>mention in Bob's Consistency Checker...)? If anyone has any info I'd be
>grateful - mail me privately if you don't think it'll interest the list.
I think it's DOOM, and not particularly the map/WAD you're using. DOOM II
tends to freeze up on me all the time, after saving for the 3rd, 4th or 5th
time in a row. I haven't done single player in a long time, however :-)
-Matt A.
------------------------------
From: "D.J.S. Damerell" <djsd100@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 22:28:24 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: DOOM save buffer
On Tue, 15 Nov 1994, Robert Forsman wrote:
> Bernd Kreimeier (++49-228-550-247) <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de> ,in messa
> ge <199411151811.TAA25245@goblin.nero.uni-bonn.de>, wrote:
> > the DSG file size, and keep it safely below 64 KB (remember: loads
> > of projectiles :).
> All those who save with multiple fireballs in the air please raise their
> hands...
Snicker. Just watch my jets. More to the point, it's IMHO part of good
level design to provide for the most perverse approach the player might
take...
David Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djsd100@cus.cam.ac.uk RL: Trinity, Cambridge
WOODHAL2.WAD on infant2. CUWoCS President. METLMAZE.WAD sometime soonish.
|___| Loneliness pours over you: Emptiness can pull you through. |___|
| | | Your mother's eyes, in your eyes, cry to me... - Queen, '39. | | |
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #54
*********************************
