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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 029
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #29
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Monday, 31 October 1994 Volume 01 : Number 029
Re: Node building
Re: txalign
Re: Node building
Re: Archvile's 'jump'
Re: Archvile's 'jump'
Re: multi-door triggers (was Vid Capture into Doom)
Re: Archvile's 'jump'
Changing the Doom Pallette
Re: Node building
DEU 5.3
Silent teleporters
Re: txalign
Re: Silent teleporters
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jrife@loanstar.tamu.edu (Jeff Rife)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 20:49:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Node building
>Well I'll go back and check it again, but it _did_ pass deu521gcc's f10
>checks. It also passed doomcad's checks (doomcad worked for the
>nodebuilding). Do you think it would actually work correctly with
>doomcad even though it had an error? I looked for all the things that
>have caused HOM's for me before (the things the faqs said to look for).
>It's definately not the textures. I'll check about the sector references
>again. If you flip a linedef deu should correct the sidedefs, right?
I had this weirdness, too. It is related to the orthogonality (squareness)
of the wad, I think.
When my wad was small, with easy to figure nodes, it was OK. Adding a
little more cause DEU's node builder to give me HOM and textures that
started in the middle of LINEDEFS.
The reason I say that it is related to the squareness of the wad is that
this effect did *not* happen with the exact same layout of VERTEX's,
LINEDEF's, and SECTOR's, but with the lowest numbered SECTOR's not the
square ones. I accomplished this by deleting the first few SECTOR's and
associated other stuff, and recreating it. This was easy, because they were
simple rooms.
- --
Jeff Rife P.O. Box 3836 | "Because he was human; because he had goodness; College Station, TX 77844 | because he was moral they called him insane.
(409) 696-4252 or 847-8775 | Delusions of grandeur; visons of splendor; nabs@tamu.edu | A manic-depressive, he walks in the rain."
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 1:11:38 CDT
Subject: Re: txalign
> You're not making it a windoze app are you?!?!? Please say you just
> meant a GUI? I assume thats what you meant. BTW: What is the ETA of 5.3?
No, we just mean a GUI. *We* have more self respect than to make something
that would run in windoze. But rumor has it that DEU 5.3 will also run
in linux... But I don't know how long after 5.3 this will be released, etc,
etc. Just consider it a rumor.
ETA of 5.3: an iD two-weeks[tm].
Here's what has to happen for 5.3 to be released:
I have to finish the tab/shift-tab keyboard focus for keyboard interfacing
Other coders need to finish the details of their projects (I hear someone
is having a real bear with the GIF code. The post script printing code
is done though.) Most of the work is alledgedly done. You can consider
the dialog box code (my segment) 97% done. The texture alignment is
like.... 95%? something close to that. We've gone a long way.
Raphael pastes all of the changes together into a beta.
We test the beta for a week or so, make all of the needed changes,
And release 5.3.
Yay. It's the first two steps that give the greatest uncertainty in the
release date. I know I should have more time since I'm switching my class
load to be softer, but I don't know what's holding up other people.
Incidently, I've been thinking about making some screen shots of DEU 5.3
just so people know that we haven't been slacking off and that DEU *has*
progressed greatly... But the screen shots are still nothing compaired
to the real program.
Any votes on this? Yea? Nay? If I get enough "yes"s, I'll run the idea
past Raphael.
> >No, alignment is only on a single sidedef. However, you can tweek things
> >like this by setting or resseting upper/lower unpegged while still
> >setting offsets. It will give you infinite flexability, but it will
> >increase what you can do a little more.
>
> Could you clarify that last bit. It almost made it sound like you could
> do seperate alignment of uppers and lowers and norms.
Not really. You just have slightly less inflexability.
Suppose you have a sector that is 96 high. You put a normal wall texture
that is 128 high. If you set the linedef lower unpegged, the texture will
be drawn from the bottom up, not the top down. This has a simulated
effect of giving the texture an offset of 32 (or would that be -32?). Now
since you can set one flag for the upper texture and one for the middle/lower
textures, you can "simulate" different offsets. Of course, you would also
get weird effects if the sector changed heights.
So in most cases, no. But if you really work at it and have a very
special case, you can get things to work out fine.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 02:03:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Node building
><discussion of problems w/ deu & bsp node building
>
>> Umm... silyl question I know but you are using 1.666 yes? And all of the
>> sector references on your linedefs are facing the correct sectors?
>> You're not missing any textures? Do you pass all of DEU's checks?(if you
>> use DEU)
>> Steve H.B.
>
>Well I'll go back and check it again, but it _did_ pass deu521gcc's f10
>checks. It also passed doomcad's checks (doomcad worked for the
>nodebuilding). Do you think it would actually work correctly with
>doomcad even though it had an error? I looked for all the things that
>have caused HOM's for me before (the things the faqs said to look for).
>It's definately not the textures. I'll check about the sector references
>again. If you flip a linedef deu should correct the sidedefs, right?
>
Remember, DEU has flip linedef and swap sidedef. The two do very
differnt things. The first only changes the coordination of the line,
the second swaps the actual stuff. You can also pass all the tests and
still have errors. Maybe I'm slow but it took me a bit of time to be
able to de-bug my wads one by one. Check those sector references!(not
tags) If worst comes to worst change them by hand.
Steve H.B.
BTW: DEU programmers. One little thing I thought I would mention. DEU
seems to always makke a first sidedef before a second when using the add
sidef command. Click on add second or even hitting three still makes me
go back, add the second again(made the first the first time) then delete
the first. Is it just my copy? This would be a great help if it would be
fixed now that I have become 'proficient'.
------------------------------
From: "S. McCrea" <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:20:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Archvile's 'jump'
gt whatever @ prism whatever wrote:
> [sm@eng.cam.ac.uk wrote:]
> > Stephen Wassell wrote:
> > > If a weapon, say the fist was set up to cause Archvile fire on the player
> > > who fired it, there would be another new thing to put in PWADs - gaps
> > > that must be jumped across, not just ran.
> > >
> > Whoah. I just understood your message now. But it would be extremely
> > annoying timing! Or no - you get thrown backwards, right? In that case,
> > just annoying aiming the jump. And annoying wasting invulnerability each
> > time. And the LOS thing may be a problem. But hey, go ahead!
>
> Hmm. Perhaps you could take away the damage it did? Just keep the
> bounce. Also, it will make you leap forward if you are already running
> forward.
>
Getting away from the realms of a dehacked patch now though? You're asking for
a total rewrite of the punch routine to just add some z velocity. I only know
of one person capable of this kind of patch (aside from iD, Cygnus etc)
and he's pretty busy these days.
Steve.
------------------------------
From: SWassell@sv.span.com (Stephen Wassell)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 18:31:24 GMT
Subject: Re: Archvile's 'jump'
In article <199410281322.28823@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> you write:
>Stephen Wassell wrote:
>> If a weapon, say the fist was set up to cause Archvile fire on the player
>> who fired it, there would be another new thing to put in PWADs - gaps
>> that must be jumped across, not just ran. We'd probably lose the Archvile,
>> though.
>>
>I don't understand. The player would just kill himself - if the code didn't
>get confused trying to determine line of sight between the player and himself.
>
>Whoah. I just understood your message now. But it would be extremely
>annoying timing! Or no - you get thrown backwards, right? In that case,
>just annoying aiming the jump. And annoying wasting invulnerability each
>time. And the LOS thing may be a problem. But hey, go ahead!
The way to get round this would be removing the damage part of the jump -
skipping that frame or something. Then, there would be no explosion, and
you would not go back - try getting hit in IDCLIP mode. If you ran at a gap,
then fired the 'jump' weapon just near it, you would be able to got further.
------------------------------------=*=------------------------------------
_____ __ __
/ ____)\ \ / / from Stephen Wassell 8 Caithness Close, Oakley,
\____ \ \ \/\/ / SWassell@sv.span.com Basingstoke, Hants,
(_____/ \_/\_/ Try coopers.wad! RG23 7NG, England.
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 17:02:54 GMT
Subject: Re: multi-door triggers (was Vid Capture into Doom)
>Wonderful! Psycho, thank you very much for this wonderful list. I will have
>fun trying to decode it until an editor (DEU) comes out that includes it in
>english.
>To think I went for sooo long without this mailing-list. I don't know how I
>did it. Thanks again John Romero for posting it in the first place.
>Steve H.B.
>(I'm sure no one is upset I didn't quote the whole thing.)
No, we've seen it too many times already. If you want it in English, get
the latest copy of WADED (1.42 I think) , go into LINEDEF mode (you just
click the LINEDEF button) click the button labelled LIST next to SPECIAL
and up pops the list! In English. Plain english. OK? Advanced enough
for this list??? ;)
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: Carbon-BasedLifeForm <decerman@ouray.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 11:27:29 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Archvile's 'jump'
On Fri, 28 Oct 1994, Stephen Wassell wrote:
> The way to get round this would be removing the damage part of the jump -
> skipping that frame or something. Then, there would be no explosion, and
> you would not go back - try getting hit in IDCLIP mode. If you ran at a gap,
> then fired the 'jump' weapon just near it, you would be able to got further.
I think this Archvile jump thing is a really keen idea. What I would do
is put an invulnerability sphere or two near Archie, so you could get
"jumped" over something without getting hurt, and without having to make
a DeHackEd patch.
__ __
____ /\ \ /\ \ Dan Cerman
/ \ \ / \ \ _\ \ \ University of Colorado at Denver
/ /\ \_\ / /\ \ \ /\_\ \ \
\ \ \ | | \ \/ \_\ \ __ \_\ decerman@ouray.cudenver.edu
\ \/ |_| \ /\/_/ \ \ \/_/
\ / / \ \_\ \ \_\ DOOM II:
\/_/ \/_/ \/_/ Now might be a good time to save.
------------------------------
From: DTeeter@aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:37:43 -0500
Subject: Changing the Doom Pallette
Hi,
Has any one ever thought of changing the Doom palette to 255 grays (plus
cyan).
This change, while making Doom colorless, would also allow graphics to have a
much higher apparent resolution. Anyone who has ever called up the Doom
palette in Photoshop etc., will understand how limiting it is to have only 32
or so grays to work with (and even fewer of the colors.)
Any ideas on the 255 gray (plus cyan) Doom conversion?
dteeter@aol.com (Dan Teeter)
------------------------------
From: cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:56:33 -0800
Subject: Re: Node building
>The reason I say that it is related to the squareness of the wad is that
>this effect did *not* happen with the exact same layout of VERTEX's,
>LINEDEF's, and SECTOR's, but with the lowest numbered SECTOR's not the
>square ones. I accomplished this by deleting the first few SECTOR's and
>associated other stuff, and recreating it. This was easy, because they were
>simple rooms.
It's not that easy when you have 500+ sectors though. I as well used to
just nuke the sectors and re-do them but that is no longer an option. I
don't know how I can help you to debug it other than to say, one day it
all just made sense and debugging it by hand was a snap. Thats when I
found out that DEU will find blatant mistakes, but you can still do
write things in a wrong way.
Steve H.B.
------------------------------
From: Tom.Holmes%224@satlink.oau.org (Tom Holmes)
Date: 29 Oct 94 07:54:00 -0500
Subject: DEU 5.3
al> No, we just mean a GUI. *We* have more self respect than to make
al> something that would run in windoze. But rumor has it that DEU 5.3
al> will also run in linux... But I don't know how long after 5.3 this will
al> be released, etc, etc. Just consider it a rumor.
al> ETA of 5.3: an iD two-weeks[tm].
Is it just me, or does it sound a little silly to make bottoms up
rewrite of DEU into a .1 upgrade? It seems that you guys should be
thinking about making it DEU 6.0.
- --- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
- --
|Fidonet: Tom Holmes 1:363/224
|Internet: Tom.Holmes%224@satlink.oau.org
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.
| From C.F.Satlink +1-407-240-7781 (ANSI or Vt-100 _required_).
------------------------------
From: cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:59:01 -0800
Subject: Silent teleporters
I know not if this has already been covered, my guess would be yes, but
I have been trying to create silent teleporters. Getting rid of the
graphic is easy enough as you just make it totally invisible, but I am
stymied as to how to get rid of the sound. Solutions?
Steve H.B.
------------------------------
From: cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:11:39 -0800
Subject: Re: txalign
>> meant a GUI? I assume thats what you meant. BTW: What is the ETA of 5.3?
>
>No, we just mean a GUI. *We* have more self respect than to make something
>that would run in windoze. But rumor has it that DEU 5.3 will also run
>in linux... But I don't know how long after 5.3 this will be released, etc,
>etc. Just consider it a rumor.
No windoze is wondderful. I'd hate to have to install that hog on my
system.
>ETA of 5.3: an iD two-weeks[tm].
>
>Here's what has to happen for 5.3 to be released:
> I have to finish the tab/shift-tab keyboard focus for keyboard interfacing
> Other coders need to finish the details of their projects (I hear someone
> is having a real bear with the GIF code. The post script printing code
> is done though.) Most of the work is alledgedly done. You can consider
> the dialog box code (my segment) 97% done. The texture alignment is
> like.... 95%? something close to that. We've gone a long way.
> Raphael pastes all of the changes together into a beta.
> We test the beta for a week or so, make all of the needed changes,
> And release 5.3.
>
>Yay. It's the first two steps that give the greatest uncertainty in the
>release date. I know I should have more time since I'm switching my class
>load to be softer, but I don't know what's holding up other people.
Sounds like an impressive lot of work. Whats the current features list
standing at? Oh, and do you need some beta-testers?
>Incidently, I've been thinking about making some screen shots of DEU 5.3
>just so people know that we haven't been slacking off and that DEU *has*
>progressed greatly... But the screen shots are still nothing compaired
>to the real program.
>
>Any votes on this? Yea? Nay? If I get enough "yes"s, I'll run the idea
>past Raphael.
That would be cool. Could put them up in binaries. To tell you the
truth, until I joined this list I thought that 5.3 had died. I'm sure
others feel the same. A reminder might be a nice idea. Just to still up
things.
>> >No, alignment is only on a single sidedef. However, you can tweek things
>> >like this by setting or resseting upper/lower unpegged while still
>> >setting offsets. It will give you infinite flexability, but it will
>> >increase what you can do a little more.
>>
>> Could you clarify that last bit. It almost made it sound like you could
>> do seperate alignment of uppers and lowers and norms.
>
>Not really. You just have slightly less inflexability.
>
>Suppose you have a sector that is 96 high. You put a normal wall texture
>that is 128 high. If you set the linedef lower unpegged, the texture will
>be drawn from the bottom up, not the top down. This has a simulated
>effect of giving the texture an offset of 32 (or would that be -32?). Now
>since you can set one flag for the upper texture and one for the middle/lower
>textures, you can "simulate" different offsets. Of course, you would also
>get weird effects if the sector changed heights.
Ah, I get you. Now that I think it over I've been doing that, sorta.
Well, DEU's texture alignment is still peachy with me.
Steve H.B.
------------------------------
From: Brad Spencer <spencer@ug.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 19:39:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Silent teleporters
On Sun, 30 Oct 1994 cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu wrote:
> I know not if this has already been covered, my guess would be yes, but
> I have been trying to create silent teleporters. Getting rid of the
> graphic is easy enough as you just make it totally invisible, but I am
> stymied as to how to get rid of the sound. Solutions?
> Steve H.B.
>
Maybe if you create a sound file a few bytes long, containing only
silence... I can't see what that wouldn't work, and it can even be a PWAD..
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Brad Spencer - Bilbo - spencer@ug.cs.dal.ca - Dalhousie University
"Everybody is Kung-Fu Fragging . . ."
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #29
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