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HOMEBREW Digest #5407
HOMEBREW Digest #5407 Sun 31 August 2008
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org
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Contents:
A.J.'s Beer color (Scott/Linda Bruslind)" <analabor@peak.org>
Re: Pansy water and what do to about it ("Craig S. Cottingham")
Pansy Water ("A.J deLange")
Custom glassware ("Doug Moyer")
Pansy water... (slaycock)
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Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:44:06 -0700
From: "Analysis_Lab (Scott/Linda Bruslind)" <analabor at peak.org>
Subject: A.J.'s Beer color
Don't go slumming on the MBAA website that Fred linked, go to the
source. You can get the Abstract free.
http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/toc/2008/jno308tc.htm
So, what happens next, you hbd'ers are asking yourselves, breathless
with anticipation and/or poor pulmonary fitness?
A new/alternative method subcommittee will be drawn up (volunteers?) and
an interlaboratory, designed experiment (inevitably, a Youden Unit
Block) will be conducted.
Results will be reported to the Technical Committee and then published
in the ASBCJ.
A decision to accept the new method and then amend Beer-10A in the
Methods of Analysis (MOA) will follow.
The European Brewing Convention
http://www.europeanbreweryconvention.org/ and
Brewing Convention of Japan http://www.brewers.or.jp/bcoj/bcoj-en.html
may adopt as suits their members.
As an outside chance, it's quite possible Jeff Cornell will review and
add A.J.'s transformations to an embedded calculator available in the CD
version of the MOA.
This is the age of miracles and wonderment. Congratulations, indeed, to
Herr DeLange. I've got to get a scanning spectrophotometer.
Scott Bruslind
Lacomb, OR
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Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:41:34 -0500
From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig.cottingham at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pansy water and what do to about it
On Aug 29, 2008, at 10:13, "Samuel Bosco" <samuel.bosco at gmail.com>
wrote:
> My house water is softened by a Culligan water softener. I know
> that by
> itself this water is generally useless for brewing.
[ ... ]
> Are there any salt amendments that give the full suite of important
> brewing
> salts? Would the proper addition just Burton
> salts be enough to support yeast health and brew a good ale or would a
> cocktail of salts be required?
The first thing to do would be to get your water analyzed. Rule #1 is
"you can't control what you don't measure." I've seen various
mentions here of labs that do water analysis; hopefully someone will
pipe up with a recommendation.
You say that the sodium is below your taste threshold, but it still
may be high enough to affect the flavor of your beer. (That's just me
speculating; I don't have any water chemistry literature close at
hand.) If it *does* end up being higher than you want, you can always
cut some of your tap water with reverse-osmosis drinking water.
> When does one add the salts? Mash? Pre Mash? Boil? Sparge?
Since the calcium has been stripped from your water, you'll need to
add at least some of the minerals to your mash water, or you won't
get good conversion of starch to sugars.
> What are some good texts that can explain this subject (be they
> zymurgy/byo
> articles or internet articles or book chapters)
If I remember correctly, John Palmer's book _How to Brew_ has a good
chapter on water chemistry.
- --
Craig S. Cottingham
BJCP Certified judge from Olathe, KS ([621, 251.1deg] Apparent
Rennerian)
craig.cottingham at gmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:45:15 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Pansy Water
Sam:
You are asking a bunch of questions the answers to which could fill the
digest for weeks. If you look back in the archives you will indeed finds
months' worth of posts on this subject. The problem is they aren't
sorted in any particularly useful way and perspectives have changed
somewhat over the years so it's probably worthwhile to review where we
are now and this might get you pointed in the right direction.
To start with water softeners: what they do is remove beneficial (from
the brewers perspective) calcium and magnesium from the water replacing
them with sodium (which may be detrimental from the cardiologist's point
of view but not particularly so from the brewer's unless the level of
sodium is high enough that the water and resulting beer taste salty).
They do not touch detrimental bicarbonate. The job of calcium and
magnesium in brewing water is to offset the effects of bicarbonate in
raising mash pH. Sodium can't do this. That is the problem. Rather than
removing the water softener perhaps you can tap into the system in front
of it. In well installations there is usually a drain valve for the
pressure tank which can be accessed. In any case a saddle valve (used
for connecting ice makers humidifiers, etc.) can be installed upstream.
Another alternative, usually available in modern softeners, is a built
in bypass valve which you could operate while drawing brewing water and
restore to its normal position when finished. SWMBO wouldn't even have
to know this has been done.
The only thing different between softened and unsoftened water (by the
usual home water softener) is the replacement of Ca and Mg by Na.
Bicarbonate, chloride, sulfate, and nitrate will all be the same. For
example, my water with Ca hardness of about 80, Mg hardness of about 40,
alkalinity at about 80, chloride at 7, sulfate at 28 and sodium at about
10 mg/L would, after passing through a softener, look like approximately
Ca and Mg harndesses of 1 each, alkalinity at 80, chloride at 7, sufate
at 28 and sodium at about 65 mg/L - hardly a blank canvas unless the
incoming water is low in minerals to begin with in which case a softener
would not be installed (unless the salesman was very clever). Even so
it is possible to approximate the water of any region you choose
provided that 1) you know what the ion profile of that water is 2) you
know the profile of the water you are starting with 3) you are willing
to accept that the laws of chemistry will only allow an approximation in
many cases. Point 1 is important because there are many reports of what,
for example, the ion profile of Munich is that are chemically
impossible. This is because averages are reported, inconsistencies in
units, errors in recording, measurement and reporting and changes in
values over time as the reports are passed from brewer to brewer. One
also needs to keep in mind that there is little point in duplicating the
hardness and alkalinity of Munich water in preparation for making a
Helles as the first step is going to be softening/decarbonation of that
water.
In any case the first step is in understanding what you have to work
with. If on a well send a sample (pre softener ) off to a lab. If on a
municipal supply get the annual water quality report from the
municipality. It is a simple matter to calculate post softener results
from pre-softener data. Based on your supply you can then decide how to
go about getting the water you need. If your water should be high in
hardness and alkalinity but low in everything else (like Munich's) then
you can decarbonate (by treating with lime or boiling) and perhaps
dilute with some purchased DI or RO water. Another option is to install
an RO device (in front of the softener) to obtain RO water for blending
or for use with salt additions to approximate a desired ion progile.
Salt additions to low mineral content water can be obtained from the
recipes posted on my website (www.wetnewf.org).
If the water is more or less normal it is still possible to supplement
with salts to approximate desired properties. With the exception of
hardness and alkalinity it is difficult to remove ions (RO, anion/cation
exhangers will serve but tend to be expensive and slow). Thus you can't
expect to acheive a profile with less of something than your source
water unless you dilute that something to below the desired level (or
remove it somehow). Working with diluted tap water is very doable.
Dilute enough to get the largest item you want down to where you want it
(e.g. I have 28 mg/L sulfate and would like a quarter of that for
Bohemian Pils so dilute 3:1 with RO water) and then supplement back up
anything that got diluted too much in attacking the main offender.
For synthesis from low mineral content (or DI) water I've got a
spreadsheet which I'm working on for an upcoming brewing water class
which I suppose is far enough along that I can post it and I've done so.
It's also at www.wetnewf.org. Bear in mind that it needs a little polish.
Finally, the perspective seems to have shifted from slavish attempts to
duplicate the water of, for example, Dortmund to the more practical
assessment of Residual Alkalinity (hardness and alkality dependent) and
adjustment to get proper mash pH with tweaking of "stylistic" ions
(sodium, sulfate, chloride) to get the desired flavor effects.
A.J.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 22:20:23 -0400
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Custom glassware
For those of you that have ordered custom glassware, can you share your
experiences?
I'd like to order a dozen or two "tasting" glasses - something in the 4 oz.
range, printed with a personal logo.
Ideas? Comments?
I might also order a few dozen for my homebrew club - be nice to have at the
meetings...
Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Troutville, VA
Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org
Beers wot I drunk:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shyzaboy/sets/72157603460612903/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:44:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: slaycock at discoverynet.com
Subject: Pansy water...
"Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:13:14 -0400
From: "Samuel Bosco" <samuel.bosco at gmail.com>
Subject: Pansy water and what do to about it
My house water is softened by a Culligan water softener. I know that by
itself this water is generally useless for brewing.
At the outset of this question I would like to request that no one replies
in the vein of "remove the water softener" because
that is not going to happen (I do not control the utilities of the house)
and I am not ready to move out."
I'm far from a water chemist, but Ive got a thought.
It's likely that the only water that goes through the water softener are
the water for inside usage. Do you have an outdoor spigot (faucet) for
gardening or general watering purposes that isnt hooked up to the
softener?
If so, you could use that water with a good filter and have a better
starting point for your brewing water.
Steve
High Water Brewhaus
- --
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #5407, 08/31/08
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