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HOMEBREW Digest #5366
HOMEBREW Digest #5366 Thu 10 July 2008
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org
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Contents:
Re: New to Homebrewing ("Daniel Chappell")
Chloramine and Campden Tablets ("A.J deLange")
Hops for Donation/Trade (Pete Limosani)
Re: Oxidation of Frozen Liquid? (Glyn and Mary)
Re: A Trick for the Conical ("Dave Larsen")
keg cleaning (drsmith)
Re: Software and Equipment (Joe Brandt)
bottle or keg (Nick Trubov)
re: New to Homebrewing & Souring a Witbier ("jeff_ri")
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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 06:50:53 -0400
From: "Daniel Chappell" <daniel.chappell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New to Homebrewing
All,
Thanks everyone for your responses (both on here and via private
email)! It amazes me how willing everyone is to share the knowledge
they've gained and the opinions they've formed over their brewing
time. You guys have been infinitely more helpful than any homebrewing
forum in which I've posted!
I was reading the very end of the last post in the previous HBD
(mentioned cleaning conicals v. carboys), and an excellent point was
raised: you can't get your hands inside a carboy to scrub it, and it
seem to me that a carboy brush is a rather inefficient mechanism for
cleaning. I'm curious to know whether or not cleaning a conical is
really that easy: despite having a zillion little parts to sanitize,
I'd think that'd involve making a big batch of Star San, tossing the
stuff you want to sanitize in, and then giving it a few minutes to
sit. It seems easier to do that than to spend a bunch of time
scrubbing away to get that *one* spot with a carboy brush.
I'm not too concerned (at the moment) about being able to do a
secondary fermentation in the same vessel or harvest yeast a lot more
easily; I'm told that both are often-cited benefits of a conical, but
that many people intend to use those features when they get a conical
and then never quite get around to it. The road to Hell is paved with
good intentions, right? :)
I'd love to hear what you guys think.
Daniel
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:27:33 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Chloramine and Campden Tablets
Dr. Wizzard is quite correct: Campden tablets are a fine way of removing
chloramine (and chlorine) from water though as I noted in an earlier
post my homebrew supplier has reported that he and one of his customers
had problems with batches of beer which they blamed on the use of
Campden tablets. Polling readers of HBD showed that many dechlorinate by
this method as a matter of course and have been doing so for years. Thus
we dismiss the problems these 2 brewers encountered as most likely to
have been caused by something else.
The reaction of momochloramine with bisulfite goes as
S2O5-- + 2 H2NCl + 3H2O --> 2SO4-- + 2H+ + 2Cl- + 2NH4+
IOW the sulfite is oxidized to sulfate and the chloramine reduced to
chloride and ammonium ions. Thus mash sulfate is increased slightly
while the yeast will consume the ammonium (frequently an ingredient in
packaged yeast nutrients). The details of the stoichimetry can be found
in my old BT article at http://ajdel.wetnewf.org:81/ but roughly
speaking 1 Campden tablet should be sufficient to treat 20 gallons of
water chlorinated/chloraminated to 3 mg/L which is typical of most
supplies. In this case your nose is a good enough instrument for
determining a proper (if not the exact) dose. If, after treatment, you
can smell chlorine, more bisulfite is needed. If, after treatment, you
smell sulfur dioxide, you have added too much bisulfite. Use a little
less next time but a bit of excess at the levels being discussed here
won't hurt a bit.
So if your goal is to dechlorinate/dechloraminate AND deoxygenate then
observe that it takes 2 Campden tablets per 5 gallons to get the oxygen
out and 1/4 Campden tablet (per 5 gallons) to get the
chlorine/chloramine at the normal maximum level of 3 mg/L. Thus if you
dose with 2 tablets per 5 gallons you will certainly get all the
chlorine/chloramine and most of the oxygen. Add the extra quarter tablet
if you like. Note that there is no reason to deoxygenate mash, sparge or
kettle makeup water. It is important to deoxygenate water used to dilute
beer after fermentation and before bottling.
In the case of the experiment I reported on yesterday chlorine and
chloramie were not part of the equation as the water was drawn from a
well and is thus, happily devoid of either.
A.J.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:24:54 -0400
From: Pete Limosani <peteLimo at comcast.net>
Subject: Hops for Donation/Trade
Fellow Brewers,
Last fall, when I learned of the upcoming hops crisis, I bought a number of
Cascade plugs at my two local HBSs. I have 15 oz left and will only use 3 oz
before my backyard vines are ready to harvest.
So, I have 12 oz that will go unused. They have been in the freezer since I
bought them in October 2007, but they are not vacuum sealed. The HBS packaged
them in 1.5 oz baggies that are twist tied, so they are not labelled as to the
crop year either. The aroma is not great, but it's Ok. My Pale Ales have been
good, but not as good as last year as far as that circusy Cascade aroma is
concerned, but the bitterness has been fine. They are labelled 5.5% AA.
I am happy to donate them to anyone who's unable to get Cascade in plug form.
Toward the end of the summer, my Cascade vines will get harvested (this is
their second year here and, man, they outgrew my 20 foot trellis before the
summer solstice!). I am anticipating more yield than I will need for the next
year. So, I'm wondering if any hop growers out there would like to trade some
home-grown Columbus, Chinook, Tettnang, Fuggles, others for some Cascade from
my vine?
Please send me a note if you are interested in the Cascade plugs or in
trading some home-grown hops.
Thanks.
/Pete/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:45:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glyn and Mary <graininfuser at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Oxidation of Frozen Liquid?
>I could sanitize a 12 oz. beer bottle and fill it with the8 oz. of leftover
>concentrate, cap and refreeze.
I would think a heavy duty freezer bag would be better than a bottle.
The bottle may break when the liquid is re-frozen. Oxidation I will
leave for someone else.
Glyn
So. Middle TN
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:07:55 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: A Trick for the Conical
> When it becomes time to drain, simply open the bottom valve and go to
> it. At time, however, the first drainings may be quite sluggish like peanut
> butter. This is where the tubing comes in handy. With the bottom closed
> and top open squeeze the tubing like milking a cow. This forces yeast in
> the tube upward into the upper valve, thus helping to break up the peanut
> butter. If that doesn't work, you can always take the lid off and poke
> around with a piece of welding rod (or coat hanger) to break up the sludge.
> Once that is accomplished, slowly begin draining.
I find that adding a little pressure is a whole lot easier. What I do
is take off the airlock, put a pressure hose connected to a CO2
canister in its place, and add 1 or 2 lbs of pressure. This is just
enough to get the "peanut butter," as you called it, to push slowly
out the hose connected to the bottom dump valve. You have to be
careful as it will start moving a whole lot quicker near the end of
dumping. I've had quite a mess on my hands on more than one occasion.
This works with a Blichmann Ferminator because when you close the
bottom dump valve, it simply pops the bung off rather than building up
pressure in the conical. The Ferminator also has a emergency pressure
relief valve, in case the bung is on too tight. I'm not so sure about
other brands of conicals, like B3.
I've read that using pressure to perform a bottom dump is not uncommon
in commercial settings as well. If it is good enough for the big
boys, it is good enough for me.
I've never had to fish around in my conical with a coat hanger. That
sounds problematic to me. The less things that come in contact with
the beer, the happier I am.
I also use pressure to rack my beer into a keg after it is done. This
works really well, and I don't have to move the fermenter out of my
refrigerator to a countertop to gravity feed, stirring up the
remaining yeast.
Dave
Tucson, AZ
http://hunahpu.blogspot.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:22:54 -0400
From: drsmith <hbd at aperature.org>
Subject: keg cleaning
> The downside is that you can't open them up for cleaning without
> some difficulty (or a special spring compressor tool) which means
> that they must be cleaned by chemical means in the blind. The real
> issue is beerstone.
> Once that stuff starts to form scrubbing (you obviously have to take
> the spear out to do this) with acid is about the only way to get it
> out and rinsing with acid after every few cleanings is the only way
> to prevent it (that I know about).
>
> A.J.
Interesting. I've been using corny kegs (and now sankey) stainless
kegs for quite a while. I've always cleaned them using a hot PBW soak
and followed that up with StarSan for sanitizing prior to filling.
For the corny keg, I could just barely get my arm in there with a
sponge to scrub any really stubborn soils out, but I can't do that on
the sankey kegs.
After reading your post, I did a search and found this paper on the subject:
http://www.birkocorp.com/brewing/beerstone.asp
... and suddenly I have more questions as I'm not entirely sure the
cleaning procedure I've been using is enough to ensure the kegs don't
get a build up in them. I do remove the spear for cleaning, though -
at least that way I can at least get a carboy brush in there if
nothing else.
What processes do others use for sankey kegs and why? I'm inclined to
stay with what I've been using since it seems to work for me, but
maybe there's a better way.
- --Darrin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:16:24 -0400
From: Joe Brandt <vzd1s11k at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Software and Equipment
> Subject: Re: Software and Equipment
Beer Tools has a beta test for it's Linux version.
http://www.beertools.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=13
You will have to register and ask to beta test. I use it for every brew .
- --
Joe Brandt
100% Microsoft Free & Loving it!!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:48:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nick Trubov <ntrubov at swbell.net>
Subject: bottle or keg
I know it has been said (I even remember READING it
"somewhere") that those plastic bottles that soda pop
come in are NOT good for bottling beer.
May I disagree?
Thank you.
I have been using "used" plastic pop bottles for a
couple of years now. The caps MAY wear out EVENTUALLY,
but I have never had one fail.
What I HAVE found is that the two liter bottles are
just a little too large in MY use. I like the 33.8
fluid ounce bottles. They are perfectly clear so you
can see any "dirt" that might "grow" in them if they
aren't cleaned and stored properly. I wash 'em out
when they are empty and put the cap back on (when they
are DRY -- VERY DRY) and then place them in a large
trash bag out in the garage. When I am ready to
bottle, I bring twenty bottles in and "sterilize them"
with iodophor solution and don't even bother to rinse
'em out. I just dump the iodophor solution back into
the pitcher that I use for filling 'em, after a couple
minutes, so I can wash out some more. Twenty of 'em
takes care of a five gallon batch.
These bottles are TOUGH. They will NOT explode (at
least I have never gotten one to burst. If they ever
DO explode it would be due to a pressure WAY beyond
anything you would be creating in a home environment.
Someone, once, told me that they would only be good
for ONE use after the soda pop was out of 'em. I have
used several of them four or more times and they still
work just fine. They are small enough to be used as
"gifts" and they are large enough to fill a "pitcher"
and have a "couple" for yourself and a friend.
So, whatever you do, DON'T use plastic bottles (unless
you have some and want to see for yourself) since "it
has been written and published".
Thanks,
That's all I have to say about that.
==========================
Nick Trubov
and all the LITTLE Trubovs
Lorree, Corbin and Alex
==========================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:24:21 -0400
From: "jeff_ri" <jeff_ri at cox.net>
Subject: re: New to Homebrewing & Souring a Witbier
Hi All,
In HBD #5362 Daniel Chappell asked about equipment for a new homebrewer.
I'm very much of the keep-it-simple philosophy. As people have already
said, great beer can be brewed on very simply equipment and fancy equipment
can produce poor quality brew. As a new brewer you should probably focus
more on the basics (sanitation, techniques, recipe formulation, etc.) than
on fancy/expensive equipment. Just my 2 cents worth, YMMV.
In HBD #5364 Dave Larsen asked about souring a witbier.
I've had great results with using the powdered acid blend distributed by
Crosby & Baker. One quarter of a teaspoon in 5 gallons produces a nice
subtle sourness. I add it at 10 minutes before the end of the boil. If I
remember correctly the acid blend is made of citric, malic and tartaric
acids.
I've been reading the HBD since 1994, but post only occasionally. It's
great to see the increase in traffic lately!
Jeff McNally
Tiverton, RI
(652.2 miles, 90.0 deg) A.R.
www.southshorebrewclub.org
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #5366, 07/10/08
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