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HOMEBREW Digest #5058
HOMEBREW Digest #5058 Thu 14 September 2006
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org
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Contents:
share a drink with your boss (LA Times) (leavitdg)
RE: Re: Mead for Dummies?/ quick mead (Steven Parfitt)
Re: Mead in seven weeks ("Al Boyce")
Degree of yellow color in beer....is that what all this is about? Part 1. (mabrooks)
Degree of yellow color in beer....is that what all this is about? Part 2 (mabrooks)
Keg Conversion FAQ ("NS Teddy Winstead, MD, MS")
Beer, Lambert & Bouguer ("A.J deLange")
Thanks, and I mead it ("drscholtz")
Refrigeration Help!! ("Doug Lasanen")
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 07:08:35 -0400
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: share a drink with your boss (LA Times)
?You don't need to golf with the boss to get a raise. Just share a beer.?
>From LA Times: http://email.latimes.com/cgi-bin1/DM/y/e8NO0J8sCv0G2B0HrUK0E6
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 05:29:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Parfitt <thegimp98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Mead for Dummies?/ quick mead
I suspect there is no such thing as a good quick mead.
I'm trying it any way since my daughter is getting
married and asked me at the last minute ( at two
months to go) if I could make a mead.
I made two meads.
1 - ABC Lite - this is a variation of the venerable
ABC recipe, but cut back to use # of honey in the 5
gallon batch. It fermented with 71B and dropped clear
after three weeks.
2 - Straight blueberry honey mead. 6# honey in a 5
gallon batch with a bit of yeast nutrient added. 71B
again.
At three weeks out, both have dropped clear.
The ABC Lite is at 1.002 (due to the DME) and appears
to be finished. It is hazy, and sharp tasting.
The BB Mead is at 0.996 and also appears to be done.
It is not as sharp tasting as the ABC Lite, but still
has undesirable flavor components of a young mead.
I have 5 weeks until the wedding. I seriously doubt
either of these will age out sufficiently in time.
One though I had was to rack to a corny and blast it
with an air stone and 02 from a tank. This would
accelerate the oxidization of the mead and possibly
accelerate the aging process.
It seems I have read somewhere about aging wine by
doing this.
Any thoughts?
Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian
"There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 07:35:45 -0500
From: "Al Boyce" <aboyce at mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Mead in seven weeks
>>>>> "drscholtz" == drscholtz <drscholtz at comcast.net> writes:
drscholtz> Can anyone out there help me out with a no-fail recipe
drscholtz> that can be served 6-7 weeks from now?
I heard Ken Schramm (author of The Compleat Meadmaker) speak at Fargo last
year, and had a BOTTLED mead of his that was seven weeks old. It was not
only completely attenuated, but was amazingly delicious! Since then, I
have had several Curt Stock meads (two-time winner of AHA COC Mead
competition, and 2005 AHA NHC Meadmaker of the year) that were seven weeks
old, and they were likewise fabulous.
The trick is yeast health and nutrition. The Schramm method is to start by
hydrating two packets of dried yeast in a solution of 104F water with GoFerm
added to it. Then take the amount of yeast energizer and yeast nutrient
that you would normally add all at once, and to divide it in eighthts. Make
your mead IN A PLASTIC BUCKET with room to spare, put in the first eighth,
then oxygenate the heck out of it and pitch your yeast.
For the next four days, open up your bucket every 12 hours, add another
eighth of your energizer/nutrients, then stir it vigorously to whip more
oxygen into it. BE CAREFUL with the first few stirs - the CO2 that is
released will want to foam your mead right out of the container.
The combination of A) The nutrient/energizers delivered in an "as-needed"
basis; B) the release of the CO2 which is essentially retarding yeast
growth, and C) the addition of oxygen every 12 hours will supercharge your
yeast growth and make them very healthy. A side benefit is that healthy
yeast will not produce the "rocket fuel" fusel alcohols which are usually
very unattractive in meads.
Schramm says that if his mead is not DONE in 28 days, he feels he's done
something wrong. Rack your mead, and leave it for another three weeks to
drop clear, and bottle.
If Ken or Curt is reading this and I've misrepresented their technique, I
hope they'll chime in and correct me. But I've been using this method on my
meads for about 6 months now, and it works every time.
BTW: This technique was documented in the Nov/Decc 2005 issue of Zymurgy in
Schramm's article on mead.
- Al
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 08:18:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: mabrooks <mabrooks12 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Degree of yellow color in beer....is that what all this is about? Part 1.
In a recent post A.J explained the Tristimulus method
for color determination in Beer and explained that the
Larger breweries will prob be soon moving to this
method.
This is likely due to the fact that the Tristimulus
method is an "approved" water quality analysis
"method" and it is really measuring the percieved
color of beer, a spec set at 430 nm is not measuring
anything but the yellow color of a beer...not what we
are really after is it? Anyone who disagrees with
this please inform me how you can measure the
absorbance of anything othe r"color" in the spectrum
at 430nm as this is the spectrum at which only the
yellow color of a solution is measured, period! no
other dominant colors!
While people who own a spec may think they are one
step above everyone else I throw this out to chew on:
Coherence physics explains that only certain types of
Lasers can approach "True" monochromatic light output,
LED's are the "next best thing", and lastly (what
everyone reading this who has a spec is likely using)
-tungsten filament lights are the worst at producing
monochromatic light. Why is this important ? When
one is using a Tungsten Filiment Spec to determine
"Color in an aqueous solution"(beer is 90+ percent
water), one will not be using a "true" source of
monochromatic light, hence one will have a certain
amount of error inherent in the readings...Please
refer to the following links for more info on this:
http://www.chem.vt.edu/RVGS/ACT/lab/Experiments/Exp_11-Beer's_Law.html
http://www.chem.vt.edu/chem-ed/spec/beerslaw.html
http://www.chem.vt.edu/chem-ed/spec/spectros.html
Please note the following info in these links: (which
has been my take on this topic all along and is
corroberated in these links)
"Unfortunately, however, the condition of
monochromatic light upon which the Beer-Lambert Law is
based is not obtainable in the laboratory. Since more
than one wavelength of light passes through a solution
at the same moment, deviations from the law are
observed over much of the available spectrum, and
non-linearity is observed in the Beer's Law plots. An
absorbance reading in such a case will indicate a
concentration which may be quite different from the
actual concentration of the solution. The object,
therefore, of much preliminary laboratory work in
optical analysis is to find a suitable wavelength band
where the deviation from the law will be only slight
or negligible" - ie. The "wavelength of maximum
absorbance".
Hence the SRM outlined by the brewing industry cannot,
in any way shape, or form give the "concentration or
quantity" of color of a beer, rather it gives a
"degree" of light absorbance in the yellow color
spectrum, ie. at 430nm. This is important, as at
430nm a spec is detecting the absorbance in the yellow
color spectrum by the transmittance of violet light
(430 nm)through a cuvette. (again at 430nm one is
only measuring the "yellow" color in the beer!)
I think we all agree that we cannot obtain a beer
"Color concentration" from the spec, and being the
case then how does one apply Beers law to this "Color"
measurement, especially when it has been shown that it
is non-linear?. The purpose of Beer-Lamberts law is to
allow an analyst to determine concentrations of
individual species as they relate to a corresponding
color absorbance wavelength, specific to the species
and methodology one is trying to measure (its not a
"general applies across the board to all solutions
everywhere law" for use on specs). An analyst (when
using the Beer-Lambert law) is trying to measure a
"concentration change" by correlating it to a change
in the amount of color absorbance at a specific
wavelength that is specific to the absorbtion
characteristics of species being measured, as outlined
in the link and above ...that is what the "c" in Beers
Law is is for, to determine concentration change as it
relates to observed color change at a narrowly focused
wavelength (to limit inherent nonlinearity) at a peak
of maximum absorbance (again to limit inherent
nonlinearity)for the species of interest!
Please read over the links provided and come up with
your own conclusions. I happen to teach this
particular method/topic as part of a Graduate level
Engineering water quality Lab course, I have over 18
years of experience in the water quality/water
chemistry/water analysis field (beer is 90+%
water)....I know how it works, why it works and the
problems/interferences associated with it....I have
applied Beers Law to measure species concentration in
1000's of samples, I used specs and Beers law
extensively for my Masters Thesis work. I have
examined beer with specs, unfortunately without a
"Peak of maximum absorbance" it is impossible to
reduce error enough, hence, the non-linearity of Beers
Law does not allow for accurate beer color
quantification/measurement "with respect to Beers
Law".
For example:
Because Beers Law is inherently non- linear, diluting
a sample 1:1 and getting a corresponding measurement
difference on spec that seems to correlate to the
dilution,at 430nm, does not validate that Beers Law is
at work! I agree, as I stated before, that there may
be a species present in beer that does follow Beers
Law (why wouldnt there be?), unfortunately according
to the SRM method, the said species would only be
detected at 430nm (yellow color absorbance spectrum)
and I can assure you there is no "peak of maximum
absorbance" in beer at 430nm, in fact there is no peak
of maximum absorbance at all, which does not allow use
of Beers law with any accuracy, precision yes,
accuracy no!.
As a side note: in case some are confused about yellow
at 430nm, when 430nm indicates a violet source color
band, one must remember that a yellow color will
exibit maximum absorption in the violet spectrum and
vice versa....e.g. a red sollution will exibit maximum
absorption in the Green spectrum. Remember your
ROYGBIV color triangle...
See part 2 for more info....
Cheers,
Matt B.
Northern VA.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 08:20:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: mabrooks <mabrooks12 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Degree of yellow color in beer....is that what all this is about? Part 2
Part 2....
Again is "relative degree" of yellow color what
everyone is really after by using a spec?..."relative
degree" of yellow color in their beer? Seems pointless
esp. for a dark beer, with lots of roasted malts, hey
what about that Killians red stuff, I wonder what the
color of that is...looks red to me...but if I measure
it on a spec at 430nm I will not be able to detect any
absobance in the red color range will I ?, This spec
stuff at 430 is just too simplistic! Again, a spec
set at 430nm will certainly give you an idea of degree
light transmittance through a substance that absorbs
in the yellow color of the spectrum - more or less,
but in no way can it give you a "concentration or
amount, or a unit of measurement" as one must have a
standard curve or a constant derived from a standard
curve.....I feel tha tby limiting the scan to 430nm we
are neglecting alot of other absorbance colors
here...dont you agree? When it comes to absorbance
many diiferent species present in a aqueous sample may
contribute to the overall color of the sample and you
cannot discount them by neglecting to look for them at
other wavelengths in the spectrum...can you?
Reading the info in the links provided, please note
that in order for Beers Law to be applicable using an
inherently poor momchromatic light source such as a
tungsten filiment spec, one MUST do a scan of all wave
lenghts between 400nm and 700nm and look for "peaks of
maximum absorbance". These peaks will allow the
analyst to "focus" in on the "color" that will provide
the best (still not perfect in any way, so Beers Law
will still NOT BE LINEAR!) chance at using beers law
to determine concentration changes of a species in
solution. One must, as previoulsy stated, have a set
of Color Standards or a constant (obtained by using
said standards on said spec) to use to verify the
concentration. Remember, when we focus in on a
particular "peak of maximum absorbance" we are really
focusing in on a "individual species color reaction"
responsible for producing color at that
wavelength..unless interferences are occuring....which
they likely are in a beer, then all bets are off for
determining anything in beer with a spec.
I believe this subject has strayed a bit, in "real
life" in the water quality/analysis field, color is
not presented in "concentration or amounts"...rather
it is done with a precalibrated color disk (best for
homebrewers and many microbrewers), or, when a using a
method that calling for readings on a spec , which is
done with a full spectrum scan (~420-650nm) to insure
one is detecting the full color absortion
characteristics of the sample Tristimulus method.
There is even a Tristimulus filter method requiring
the use of "special precalibrated tristimulus light
filters" that are used in conjuction with a specific
light source and photoelectric cell (not part of a
normal spec set-up). The Tristimulus method will give
you the color properties as in units as A.J described,
and when reporting color via an approved tristimulus
method one would report not only the pH of the
solution and the type of instrument used , an analyst
would report color as follows:
"Color characteristics" of the sample: ie. dominant
wavelength, hue, luminence, and purity....
please note: there is no mention of "amount" or
"units" here, or the use of beers law to scale
dilutions? For someone to think they have devised a
method that has thus far eluded the professionals in
the water industry for applying Beers Law to
"background color in aqueous solutions" (beer is `90+
percent water)is just not correct. (I can assure you
there is a lot more research money and mental capacity
(Bachelors, Master'PhD's) in the academic Chemistry,
Engineering and Laboratory Water Quality/ Analsis
fields then there ever will be in the Brewing
Industry, not a slam against brewers, as they are on
average a more sociable bunch then the
academics)...just a fact, while I dont consider myself
an "academic" I have done and continue to do a a great
deal of in-depth water quality research and Laboratory
analysis (BTW: I do all analysis on instrumentation in
a "Certified Laboratory" so I can unequivically stand
behind all of my methods and most importantly the
results). All of my research is peer reviewed by
academia. I speak here as a brewer, and relying on my
professional experience I can say I do not have or
know of a better methodology for determining the Color
of a beer or other aqueous sample then those methods
already approved in the Analytical water quality/water
analysis field. If it was possible to apply Beers Law
someone would have figured it out by now....and there
is no approved method that I know of that specificly
details that Beers law has an application in
determining the amount of background color in aqueous
solutions in the Chemical or Engineering or Laboratory
Water Chemistry/Analysis fields? ...can someone please
send me this method if they have it? Beers law is
used to determine concentrations of a specific analyte
in solution by using a specific wavelength....even
then its not perfect.
I think this concludes any further comment from me on
this topic. If someone thinks they have devised a
better method to measure and report color of aqueous
solution, please submit it for review to one of the
organizations that are responsible for evaluating new
methodologies and approving their use for laboratory
analysis throught-out the world so that we can all
have a uniform approved method to use that is
repeatable from one lab to the next (for those of us
who have labs to use) for those who dont...can someone
please invent a calibrated color wheel. Remember, due
the the vast percentage of water in beer, it is
considered to be an aqueous solution, and thus follows
all the same physico-chemical properties that water
does, and the same types of instrumentation and
methodolgies apply here. Seems to me the big brewers
have finally come to the realization they needed to
move to an "approved methodology" and I applaud their
efforts to do so.
Please educate yourselves and draw your own
conclusions...on second thought, its probably not
worth it, as most people here dont have spec to use
and its just really not that important ...eh?
Personally I like dark beers! I also like lighter
colored beers, heck, I just plain like BEER....Good
beer that is!
You want to know how I determine the color/amount of
color in my beer (remember I have access to hundreds
of thousands of dollars worth of lab equipment) I hold
it up to an incanescent light bulb. Pretty
impressive...eh? I scale my malt additions by taste
and taste alone. What do you certified beer judges do
for color determination at competition...hold the dang
thing up to a light, WOW! thats certainly
scientific...what if you are in a room with florescent
light for one competition and incandescent light for
another ? same style might not cut the musturd for
color as it wont be the same will it? Better yet, the
temperature "color" bands of light bulbs in
florescents and incandescents can differ due to
selection of the purchaser? A flashlight you
say...still not right, what if one judge has a krypton
bulb and two AA batteries and the other has a one AAA
with a non halogen cheapy bulb? and not all judges
even use flashlights! A calibrated color wheel will
do the trick and get everyone on the same page.
Cheers,
Matt B.
Northern VA.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:07:15 -0500
From: "NS Teddy Winstead, MD, MS" <twinstead at uab.edu>
Subject: Keg Conversion FAQ
I just wanted to let people know that I've put the keg conversion FAQ
back online with a few timely updates (like the invention of
websites). It's available at:
http://polydipsia.com/kegconversionfaq/
I'm still farting around with it some. Mostly this is just an excuse
for me to play with wordpress. The ASCII art still sucks, don't
worry. In fact, it sucks worse now because wordpress ate some of the
formatting which I can hopefully fix.
PS - can someone explain to me what all the hubbub over the Rogue
"Pacman" yeast is all about? I thought I might order some but people
are sold out?!?!
PPS - thanks to everyone for the nice notes after by multi-year
absence welcoming me back.
Also - enjoying the discussion of SRM determinations from a digicam
and photoshop. Good, very original, beer-geeky stuff.
Best,
Teddy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:43:14 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Beer, Lambert & Bouguer
Whover gets or should get the credit (and a bit about the three gents
involved can be found at
http://www.answers.com/topic/johann-heinrich-lambert
http://www.answers.com/topic/august-beer
http://www.answers.com/topic/pierre-bouguer
the law itself is quite simple to derive from basic thought processes,
may be of interest to some and the excercise was a good review for me.
If a beam of N photons per second all of nearly the same wavelength is
directed along the x axis impinges upon a slab of solution perpendicular
to the x-axis which is of small thickness Dx and...
1. This solution contains particles, at concentration c, of some species
which can capture photons of this wavelength and
2. Particles of this species are in chemical equilibrium with all other
species present including the solvent and
3. The solvent does not capture photons at this wavelength (or does so
with probability much smaller that the capture probability of the
species of interest) and
4. The probability that a particle of this species will capture a photon
is very, very small and
5. The probability that a particle of this species will capture a photon
is independent of the proability that a particle of any other species
will and conversely and
6. The electric and magnetic fields associated with the photon beam are
too weak to cause chemical or physical changes (such as boiling) to any
of the dissplved species or solvent ...
then the number of photons captured by this species per unit time in
going through the slab will be DN = N(x)*K*c*Dx i.e. proportional to
N(x), the number of photons impinging at x per unit time, the thickness
and the concentration with the proportionality constant K being related
to the probability of capture. Thus N(x + Dx) - N(x) = N(x) -DN -N(x) =
- N(x)*K*c*Dx and the limit of [N(x + Dx) - N(x)]/Dx as Dx becomes
vanishingly small, which is the definition of the derivative of N with
respect to x, is -N(x)*K*c i.e. we have the first order linear
differential equation
dN(x)/dx = -N(x)*K*c
Every first year engineering student knows that this equation has a
solution of the form N(x) = N0*exp(alpha*x) where N0 and alpha are
constants. If this is substituted into the differential equation it is
clear that N0 = N(0) and alpha = -K*c. Thus
N(x) = N(0)*exp(-K*c*x)
The number of photons per second at, respectively, x and 0, is
proportional to the intensity of the light at, respectively, x and 0 so
the ratio N(x)/N(0) = I(x)/I(0) = exp(-K*c*x). Taking the negative of
the natural logarithm (ln) of both sides
-ln(I(x)/I(0)) = K*c*x
[ln(exp(u)) = u] Multiply both sides by ln(10) to get the log to the
base 10 on the left and you have
-ln(10)*ln(I(x)/I(0)) = -log(I(x)/I(0)) = ln(10)*K*c*x = k*c*x
where k = ln(10)*K. The negative logarithm to the base 10 (log) of the
ratio of the intensities is the definition of A, the absorbtion so
A = k*c*x
is the law in it's usual form with k being called the absorbtion (or
previously, extinction) coefficient. For whatever reason Beer's name
seems to be associated with the fact that A is linearly proportional to
concentration and Lambert's with the fact that it is linearly
proportional to path (x). I believe all three came up with the law in
the same form.
A.J.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 19:48:15 -0400
From: "drscholtz" <drscholtz at comcast.net>
Subject: Thanks, and I mead it
Thanks to all who responded to my mead for dummies request. I am now
thoroughly intrigued by this mead thing. I am going to make a batch via
the Al Boyce/Ken Schramm method and then a more traditional one that I
can age for a while. Thanks again to all. I really appreciate all of
you and HBD!
Brendon Scholtz
Ridgefield, CT
Pleasantville, NY
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 21:48:15 -0400
From: "Doug Lasanen" <Dlasanen at fuse.net>
Subject: Refrigeration Help!!
Fellow Brewers and Refrigeration Engineers!
Long time brewer and hbd lurker! Need help......In addition to brewing for
a hobby, I am also a cabinet maker. Last year I decided to build a new
fridge for my beers. I built one several years ago, with four taps, and
space for lagering. The new fridge would be "Frost Free".
I was innitially going to cannabalize an existing refrigerator for the guts,
but, opted to purchase "New" guts and build to suit.
The unit is in total about 20 to 24 Cu Ft..........Top, holds 4 kegs for
Dispensing, and the bottom was planned to hold a combination of kegs and
Carboys for lagering.
Well, I have all components installed and functioning.......the problem is
the temp is only 56 to 58 degrees in the box!! The idea is good, but the
engineering is lacking at this point!! I know, I need to get the air
flowing over the "Condenser" (Cold Coil", but have not yet found the
appropriate approach.
I attemted to build a styrofoaom shroud around the fan. That apparently
restricted too much air flow, causing the coil to ice up all together!!
If someone in the HBD is intrested, I can forward pictures of the situation.
Perhaps, someone with more knowledge would have a suggestion.
Thanks, in advance!
Doug Lasanen
Bloatarian Brewing League
Cincinnati, Ohio
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5058, 09/14/06
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