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HOMEBREW Digest #5006
HOMEBREW Digest #5006 Fri 12 May 2006
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org
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Contents:
Re: Millet Roggenbier (Andrew Lavery)
Re: Roggenbier and enteropathy (Andrew Lavery)
Re: Wondering about what CEP requires ("Tumarkin ")
Re: rust on diffusion stone (Jim Eberhardt)
Re: Rust on diffusion stone (Jim Eberhardt)
rye bread (roggenbrot) (Jeff Renner)
130*F mash rest ("Andrew Tate")
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Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 14:54:48 +1000
From: Andrew Lavery <alavery at iprimus.com.au>
Subject: Re: Millet Roggenbier
Peter Ensminger wrote:
>Interesting HBD post (as always). However, your closing comment about a
>"millet roggenbier" has me confused. Roggen (German for "Rye") is
>especially high in gluten. How can you make a gluten-free Roggenbier?
>
>
Peter,
No rye in it. Made with 100% millet malt but to the style of a
roggenbier, so technically should be called a hirsebier but no judge
would know what you were on about.
Cheers, Andrew.
Ballarat, VIC, Australia.
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Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 15:53:24 +1000
From: Andrew Lavery <alavery at iprimus.com.au>
Subject: Re: Roggenbier and enteropathy
Dave Burley wrote:
> There is some hope for brewing beer from gluten containing grains.
I think that was achieved some time ago (you left yourself open for that
one).
> The use of aspegrgillus niger amylase enzymes can break down
> protein/carbohydrates and the <<<<carbohydrates>>>> which seem to be
> the agent that stirs up the production of T cells and causes the
> breakdown of the villi in the intestine of celiacs. We know that
> malting and brewing times and temperatures can affect the content of
> small protein/peptides/carbohydrates and therefore suggests a pathway
> to reduce these in the beer. This obviously needs a lot of
> experimentation, but the direction is tempting. Here is extracted
> information. Full articles are in the references.
Some of that research 30+ years old (particularly the ones refering to
amylase enzymes as a saviour) and most likely has hit a deadend since
then. Current research is focussed on identifying which of the 1000's
of gluten peptides are toxic, no silver bullet yet.
I would hate think someone would read your post and think it was OK to
wash down some enzymes with a six pack of regular beer!
I would also imagine using enzymes the breakdown the protein and
carbohydrate into tiny fractions (that may or may not be toxic) would
destroy the basis for a decent beer - no body, no head retention, no
melanoidins etc...
I'll stick to using malted gluten free grains - much easier, very tasty,
and there is no chance of poisoning oneself.
Cheers, Andrew.
Ballarat, VIC, Australia.
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Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 06:41:56 -0400
From: "Tumarkin " <Tumarkin at HogtownBrewers.org>
Subject: Re: Wondering about what CEP requires
Bev wrote:
>Are there exams at the end of the NHC sessions that will earn CEP
>points? I don't know what to expect....
Being the Speaker Coordinator for the AHA Conference, I have been
working with Kris England, the BJCP Education Director, on bringing CEP
to the NHC. Since the CEP program is brand new, it's not really
surprising that you don't know what to expect. Almost all CEP events will
include a short exam. This includes those at the AHA NHC. We are planning
on sending out information on this soon, but I'll try to answer this now.
These are short answer, approx 15 questions quizzes. The purpose of these
is to be sure you understand the presented material, a 70% score will be
required. The questions will be given out at the beginning of the talk,
so if you pay attention this shouldn't be a problem (hint: there is a Q&A
period at the end of each talk). Your BJCP number will be required and only
current BJCP judges can receive credit (no retroactive points like for judging
and stewarding).
Check out the CEP section on the BJCP website for a program overview -
http://www.bjcp.org/cep/
Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
AHA Speaker Coordinator
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 05:54:34 -0500
From: Jim Eberhardt <jim at jacysplace.com>
Subject: Re: rust on diffusion stone
Randy,
Thanks for that idea, its a great one. My stone is in similar
condition, too - it needs strong pressure to push water/O2 through, so
a cleaning would do it some good. While I'm at it, I know one of my
showerheads could use some cleaning, too :).
Thanks again for the tip.
Jim
On May 11, 2006, at 7:26 AM, Randy Ricchi wrote:
> Jim,
> I doubt that that little spot of rust is going to do any harm to your
> beer, given the short contact time and all.
>
> But, if you have time, here's a way to get rid of it:
>
> I had the same thing with my stone, and I filled a little cup with CLR
> (Calcium, Lime, Rust) remover, dropped the stone in and left it
> overnight. The next morning I rinsed the heck out of it and ran water
> through it. Worked like a charm, AND, I believe it actually cleaned
> unseen deposits out of the pores in the stone, because before the
> cleaning, when I'd run water into the stone, it wouldn't seep through
> on it's own but had to be blown through. After the cleaning the water
> would seep through on it's own. It's been years since I did this and
> I'm still using the same stone, and haven't had a recurrence of rust.
>
> I think CLR comes in a green pint or quart size plastic bottle; you
> can probably find it at Wal-Mart or hardware stores, it's a pretty
> common product.
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 06:00:00 -0500
From: Jim Eberhardt <jim at jacysplace.com>
Subject: Re: Rust on diffusion stone
Alex,
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the confirmation (and your
credentials to support it!). I sent my post in last week (queue must
have been small?) so I made the executive decision to brew on Saturday.
Hard to quantify the amount of rust, but it didn't look like much.
Sounds like the only concern I could have will be taste - I'll find out
before too long. In the meantime, I'll just "Relax...etc".
Thanks again,
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 11:20:16 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: rye bread (roggenbrot)
Dave Burley wrote:
> My recollection is that it is not the gluten in <true> 100% rye
> bread ( no wheat or wheat gluten) that forms a somewhat risen,
> heavy loaf but other gum components of the rye which trap a small
> percentage of the CO2 generated by the microbes.
I'll dissent here. While the gums in rye definitely make for a
sticky dough, I'm pretty sure that the gluten components in rye are
far less elastic than those in wheat. It is this elasticity that
allows gas bubbles in the dough to expand, given a well risen loaf.
You can check this out by simply stretching rye dough and compare it
to wheat dough.
This is why most rye bread contains at least 50% wheat flour. I have
made 100% rye bread and it's very difficult to work with and to get
much volume. About the best I can do is 50% rise when proofing the
loaf, and I get virtually no oven spring (the rise in the hot oven).
The low pH of sourdough is important in making rye bread (sauerteig
roggenbrot) as it keeps the gums from being too sticky. A yeast-
raised rye bread is not only less flavorful than one fermented with a
natural culture, the dough is harder to work with and won't rise as
well. Rye flour also makes much more active and flavorful cultures
than wheat ones. I think it's the enzymes, as I recall from long ago
reading.
My mother is a celiac and we find it much easier for her to simply
avoid oats. It's not a big sacrifice. She did once buy some spelt
bread because it proclaimed "wheat free" and ended up rather sick.
The new labeling laws are very helpful as she only has to look for
"gluten free."
Jeff
- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 16:00:04 -0500
From: "Andrew Tate" <atatepilot at hotmail.com>
Subject: 130*F mash rest
I've been reading Greg Noonan's New Brewing Lager Beer book, which is
excellent. He briefly discusses a mashing schedule with at rest in the
130's for both protein and a B-amylase, followed by an alpha-amylase rest at
around 160F or so.
Can anyone comment on more specifics of this rest? Is it useful at all for
modern pils malts? I know protein rests are out of favor now, but
supposedly the higher temp rest preserves more of the body and foam positive
proteins than the traditional 122F. Are there any styles of beer that are
especially suited to this schedule?
Andrew Tate
Boston, MA
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #5006, 05/12/06
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