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HOMEBREW Digest #4979
HOMEBREW Digest #4979 Wed 22 March 2006
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org
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Contents:
Re: Oxygen scavenging caps (Fred L Johnson)
RE: Thermometers ("David Houseman")
Iron ("A.J deLange")
RE: Oxycaps - The Final Word (yeah, sure) (jeff)
Re: Thermometers ("Ronnie Anderson")
Iron removal from well water (Jeffrey Byers)
Re: Did I re-invent Real Ale? (Jeff Renner)
Re: Thermometers (Dylan Tack)
welding plans for conical fermenter ("Ben Dooley")
RE: theremometers ("Benjy Edwards")
Yeast handling (zukoskyrobert)
Re: Diacetyl Rest for Ales ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
Re Thermometers ("Pete Calinski")
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:00:57 -0500
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Oxygen scavenging caps
More opinions continue to come in on oxygen scavenging caps, but I've
yet to hear the mechanism. If we understand how they work, it would
avoid a lot of speculation and guessing about what activates
them/destroys them.
I suspect there are different technologies behind different brands of
these types of caps. Does anyone have any knowledge about how these
actually work?
I've read that one approach is to embed elemental palladium behind a
gas permeable membrane in the liner. The palladium catalyzes the
reaction of hydrogen, introduced intentionally into the headspace as a
combination of nitrogen and hydrogen, with oxygen to make water.
2 H2 + O2 = 2 H20
I doubt this is the technology behind the various caps that are
commonly available at homebrew suppliers. The caps distributed by
Crosby & Baker are made by Bruninghaus (Germany), but I can't find out
how their caps work. Bruninghaus offers "oxygen barrier" and
"scavenger" crowns, and I'm trying to find out which of these Crosby &
Baker supplies and how one could recognize the difference by looking at
them.
Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:16:36 -0500
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Thermometers
I've got a number of thermometers and I'd love it if any two read the same.
There's a saying that a man with a watch thinks he knows the time but a man
with two watches is never sure. Same with thermometers. The most
accurate one I had was a NIST traceable digital thermometer (until I dropped
it into boiling wort). That's where I'd start. The better alcohol
thermometers seem to be more accurate than the bi-metal probe thermometers.
Narrower range thermometers seem to be more accurate than the broader range
ones. If you find a solution to this one please post for everyone's
benefit....
David Houseman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:34:17 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Iron
For Dylan: Iron is easily removed by exposing the water to air. This
will oxidize clear water Fe(II) ions to Fe(III) which will immediately
form the ugly gray, orange or brown (depending on amount) hydroxide. You
then filter the water leaving the hydroxide behind. Aeration can be
acheived by pouring the water back and forth between containers, blowing
compressed air through it (with an aeration stone but make sure
compressed air has been filtered for oil droplets), spraying it through
a shower head or nozzle, agitating it or whatever gets lots of oxygen
into contact with it. Filtration can be done with a wound filter or
filter paper (slow) or (per Noonan's books) a bed of clean sand (kids
play sand). You can even backwash the sand and use it again. Obviously
this process works better if the pH is high but the aeration will scrub
the CO2 out of most low pH water so you shouldn't have to worry about that.
A.J.
PS: ppm as CaCO3 is an archaic way of expressing normality, not molarity.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 04:36:54 -0800 (PST)
From: jeff at henze.us
Subject: RE: Oxycaps - The Final Word (yeah, sure)
I've heard they are activated by wetting as well. Which naturally leads to
the next question: Since I sanitize my caps prior to using them in
idophor, does that mean that they are ruined before they are even used? Or
(more realisticly) if I sanitize caps, but don't use all of them in a
bottling session, will they be "used up" by the time I try to use them for
the next batch?
They seem like a waste to me. I've used them, but only because that's what
the store had on hand. If you are bottle conditioning, isn't the O2
absorbed by the yeast anyway? Granted it may cause some off flavors in the
time between when it was bottled and when the O2 is absorbed, but is it
really a much shorter time frame than if you use the caps? Lack of
in-your-face marketing (and facts) by the bottle cap manufacturers leads
me to beleave that the O2 absorbing caps really don't do a lot for you.
- --Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:57:42 -0500
From: "Ronnie Anderson" <rjanderson1 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Thermometers
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:41:14 -0500
> From: "Paul Deniston" <pdeniston at gmail.com>
>
> The model I bought is made by Pyrex... a picture can be found at
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/
> B00004RC4R/103-5279994-0654200?v=glance&n=284507.
> (URL on two lines because it was making HBD reject my post)
> I wouldn't recommend it, if anyone else is looking for a thermometer.
The same exact thing happened to my first one of these. You have to be
extremely careful about getting the area where the metal probe crimps
onto the wire wet. I think I read that in the manual of the second one
I bought, and I've been using it without problem for the last several
brews.
Ronnie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:18:50 -0600
From: Jeffrey Byers <jbyers at yakfarm.net>
Subject: Iron removal from well water
Dylan, You don't say how much Fe is in your water or what form Fe2+ or
Fe3+. I doubt if you can taste it, that it comes from the pipes. Your
water would need to be fairly acidic to dissolve enough iron from the
pipes to taste.
Fe3+ is "easy" to remove. add oxygen to water, wait until rust forms
(orange tinted water) then filter. Most commercial iron filters work on
this principle. Ours simply sucks in air when the well pump runs. The
water sits in the pressure tank then passes through a filter bed tank on
the way to the house. works well for low iron levels and slow water usage.
The filter bed is basically a sand bed but most use "green sand." Green
sand is sand coated with layer of Manganese oxide that promotes the
oxidation. Sometimes it is mined naturally as glauconite. It needs to
be backwashed every third or fourth day to remove the collected rust.
It does this automatically at night.
A faster job of the oxidation is done using Sodium Hypochlorite (bleach)
Some commercial iron filter systems use a bleach drip prior to the
holding tank. This will remove very large levels of iron very quickly.
The owner adjusts how much bleach is bled into the water depending upon
how much iron is in the system. Too much bleach and it tastes like it.
Too little bleach and the iron remains.
For Fe2+ dominant water, Potasium permanganate systems are used. They
use a solution of KMnO4 instead of bleach. I'd avoid these systems
since Permanganate can be poisonous. Some Permanganate systems use it
only during backwash to replenish the Green Sand. These are I guess
quite safe.
The air only system we have doesn't remove all of the iron just enough
so it doesn't stain clothes in the washer and not taste minerally. I
make one gallon "iron free" water by adding a small amount of bleach to
4+ quarts of water. Stirring vigorously and allowing to sit overnight to
several days. I filter the water through a membrane filter and remove
the Chlorine using either campden tablets or boiling.
I never make more than a gallon of iron free water this way. I live
with the iron in my beer. Making 12 gallons of brewing water would be a
pain. If you can find a supply of filter quality "Green Sand" you can
probably make your own gravity flow iron filter. Garden store sell a
variety of glauconite that has all kinds of stuff in it. Not sure if I
would filter water with this.
quick internet search found this supplier
http://www.advancedh2o.com/products/brochures_html/media/birm.html
http://www.advancedh2o.com/products/brochures_html/media/greensand.html
Doesn't appear to be cheap though. Maybe smaller quantities can be
found elsewhere.
regards,
jefe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:52:56 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Did I re-invent Real Ale?
"Brian McGovney" <brian.mcgovney at gmail.com>, who neglects to tell
us where he's from (but a quick google of "Strand Brewers' Club"
reveals that it, at least, is in South Bay, Los Angeles County,
California) ;-) , asks:
> Did I re-invent Real Ale?
Yes.
I generally keep my ales, or at least British style ones, at cellar
temperature, which is 52F/16C right now, and under about 3-6 psi.
Then when I dispense it, it still has a little too carbonation for my
taste. So I use a "pocket beer engine," which is a small syringe
with a narrow orifice. I suck a few cc's of beer up, then squirt it
forcefully back into the beer. This raises a creamy head and de-
fizzes the ale. Result: a perfect pint.
Note - if you are doing this with a really carbonated beer, be sure
to allow lots of head space.
See my previous post at http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/
3693.html#3693-16 for a more detailed discussion of the subject,
including warming a too-cold beer.
Of course, the best way to do all this is to have a real beer
engine. I served a British-style best bitter (1.038, ~30 IBU) on
hand pump this past Saturday evening at my annual St. Patrick's Day
party (I re-christened the ale "Irish Red Ale" for the occasion).
The crowd drained the five gallon corney just about as things were
winding down. I think that pulling the pump was part of the appeal,
but the beer was mighty good. Even though it was an American crowd,
albeit a sophisticated one, no one complained about warm, flat beer.
Of course, most of them come every year and know what to expect, and
even look forward to it. No one asked for a Bud Lite.
Jeff
- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:06:41 -0600
From: Dylan Tack <dylan at io.com>
Subject: Re: Thermometers
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:24:20 -0800 (PST)
> From: tpunk at riseup.net
>
> like to hear if anyone has recommendations for non-crappy
> thermometers.
I'm partial to the long glass thermometers. I have several that I
bought from mcmaster.com, part 38935K64 for $11.15 each.
If you like digital, some guys in my homebrew club have reported good
results with this one:
http://www.vwrsp.com/catalog/product/index.cgi?object_id=0013422
-Dylan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:12:42 -0500
From: "Ben Dooley" <bendooley at gmail.com>
Subject: welding plans for conical fermenter
Does anyone know where I can find some? I've been toying with the idea
of building my own for a while now, but I've never had the chance to
inspect a real one and don't really know where to get started. If
anyone could point me in the right direction, it would be an enormous
help.
Thanks very much!
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:22:13 -0500
From: "Benjy Edwards" <rdbedwards at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: theremometers
>Hello all,
>I've recently started doing partial mashes and I need a dependable
>thermometer. I unfortunately bought a crappy thermometer and I'd like to
>hear if anyone has recommendations for non-crappy thermometers. The one I
>bought is digital, which I figure is what I'm looking for, but after using
>it twice it is telling me my tap water is 175 F and there's no way to
>recalibrate it. It's a 'probe' variety thermometer which is supposed to
>be able to stand up to 400 F in the oven, which made me think it would be
>ok for brewing. Apparently not. Any suggestions would be greatly
>appreciated!
>
>The model I bought is made by Pyrex... a picture can be found at
>http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/
>B00004RC4R/103-5279994-0654200?v=glance&n=284507.
>(URL on two lines because it was making HBD reject my post)
> I wouldn't recommend it, if anyone else is looking for a thermometer.
The probe may have gotten water in it. I had this happen a couple of times,
and if you super-heat the probe you may be able to fix it. I had a steel
probe that was way off, so I heated it in the flame of a propane burner, and
it made it work again.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:52:02 -0500
From: <zukoskyrobert at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Yeast handling
If you have approx 2 oz of yeast slurry having been stored for two months
under beer is it better to make a starter with the 2 oz or pull several ml
off and feed that?
bobz
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:26:46 +0100
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Diacetyl Rest for Ales
On Monday, 13 March 2006 at 9:02:58 -0500, Pete Limosani wrote:
> Folks,
> I am making an ESB and using Wyeast 1968.
> The description of the yeast says, "Diacetyl production is noticeable and a
> thorough rest; 50-70* F is necessary."
> I usually do a diacetyl rest when making pilsners by raising the temperature
> from 50* to 60-65* for a day or two. My understanding is that the increase in
> temperature is an important part of getting the yeast going to reduce the
> diacetyl.
> How does one do a diacetyl rest at 50-70* for an ale when the ale is
> fermenting at 70*? Won't cooling it down reduce the yeast activity?
> Should I just leave the brew in the carboy for a few days after fermentation
> is complete?
I asked this question a while back when brewing with the same yeast,
and in the end came to exactly this conclusion: after fermentation,
leave the beer sitting on the yeast cake at about 18<insert degree
sign here>C, about 65<insert degree sign here>F. The important thing
seems to be to give the yeast the chance to reduce the diacetyl, not
the change in temperature.
Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:56:01 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re Thermometers
Those thermometers are a POS. I bought one years ago and found that liquid
can get in the probe where the braid is crimped. It failed like yours and I
called because it was still under warrantee. They said to dry it out in an
oven and then be careful to keep the crimp above any liquid line. Well I
was able to dry it but soon it failed again even though I handled as they
said. I think condensation formed inside.
So I called again and they sent me another probe under warranty. It also
failed the same way. And you can bet I was very careful this time. I gave
up because it was out of warrantee. Makes a nice timer though.
In the last year I saw an identical one at Target, different name but
exactly the same item. It has a piece of tubing of some kind in the crimp
and since it was at a very good price, I bought it but only for use on the
grill. Well, the new one failed in a similar way. I called the maker (or
marketer might be a better term) and they said I shouldn't have gotten it
wet. I said (a) I didn't because of my previous experience (b) the
directions said nothing about keeping it dry, and (c)a I used it only on the
grill. He said I can't leave it in during grilling, too hot???, and not to
let the braid contact the grill case. He said he would send me a new one
but that would be the last one because I was mistreating it. I told him he
will have to supply me as many as I need because I was handling them as
directed and not doing anything that the instructions said I shouldn't.
Well, I got the new probe. This time the entire thing is in a Teflon type
tube from plug to probe. I use it a little on the grill but basically I'm
fed up with it.
Sorry to give you the bad news.
Hope this helps.
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
http://hbd.org/pcalinsk
***********************************************************
*My goal:
* Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
* (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4979, 03/22/06
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