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HOMEBREW Digest #4868
HOMEBREW Digest #4868 Wed 12 October 2005
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org
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Contents:
oysters & beer (Bob Devine)
CO2 Safety ("Michael Maag")
Kunze, Modeling, Process literature, deClerk (David Harsh)
Post your location (Jeff Renner)
Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day ("Gary Glass")
Re: Comments re HBD 4866 (Scott Alfter)
Any Wilmington, NC folks heading to the Lighthouse International Beer Festival? ("Chris Horner")
Tinyurl (was: Comments re HBD 4866) ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
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Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:48:25 -0600
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: oysters & beer
Bill Velek wrote:
> Brad: I've read about real oysters being added to an
> "Oyster Stout" (IIRC it was from Michael Jackson)
Never underestimate what adjuncts or flavorings
have been tried in brewing. Somehow stout is one style
that has had variety of additions -- milk sugar, coffee,
oatmeal, licorice, maybe even Rocky Mountain oysters...
This might be the column you remember:
http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000740.html
A label proclaiming oysters
http://www.beers-of-the-world.com/brands/detail/oyster_stout.764.html
Other brewers have used ground shells from oysters
as fining agents. Such shells are somewhat like
diatomaceous earth -- the particles are small, rough,
and good for capturing small particles. Shells are
also somewhat alkaline.
Bob Devine, Riverton UT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:26:47 -0400
From: "Michael Maag" <MichaelMaag at doli.virginia.gov>
Subject: CO2 Safety
I am posting this alert now that the cold weather
is on the way, and the case has been closed.
A fatality occurred in SW Virginia last winter
when a Pepsi employee was delivering a 20 lb
CO2 tank to a customer.
He had placed the CO2 tank in the cab of the
truck near the heater vent.
The heater vent blew air at at 150F.
The CO2 tank had been overfilled.
The increase in internal tank pressure due
to the heat caused the frangible disk to
rupture, and the entire tank contents filled
the cab.
The victim was unconcious before he could
roll down the window, and died.
The vehicle was found stalled on the shoulder
of the road.
Brew Safely
Mike Maag, Va. OSHA
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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:03:15 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Kunze, Modeling, Process literature, deClerk
Greetings-
I'll stop after this, I promise.
On Kunze-
I don't own a copy of Kunze (but maybe I'll check the library), but
the posted passaged seemed to me to be very poorly translated and
perhaps it could be stated more clearly. However, I think Steve A.
correctly interpreted what was written.
- -----------------
To model the sparge-
A proper sparge model has to account for both diffusion and convective
issues. Dave Burley and I discussed this several years ago and
although he used different terminology, we described it as the same
basic processes:
1. Diffusion in the liquid phase (I'm pretty sure we could neglect
this)
2. Convective mass transfer from the liquid phase to the particles
3. Diffusion in the particle phase (the Fickian process)
Physical data needed:
-Equilibrium data (sorption isotherm, partition coefficient, whatever
you want to call it)
-Bed characteristics (particle "size", porosity, sphericity, all that)
-Diffusivities for the solute in the bulk and particle phases.
Hinds gives solutions of the model for varying limited resistances and
references a solution for combined resistances. Although derived for a
sorption process, it is easily applicable to a desorption process.
Many other mass transfer references will probably present the same
solutions if one is interested and can't find a copy of Hinds (Bennett
and Myers; McCabe, Smith and Harriot, anything on that part of the
library shelf!) And this is for transfer of ONE solute. Multiple
solutes do not allow an analytical solution.
- ----------------
What does process literature say?
I think Dave Burley and I have seen the same literature over the years
and are almost perplexed that anyone would claim that batch processes
have an advantage in efficiency over a continuous one. The continuous
process maintains a higher average driving force for mass transfer, and
that is easily proven. It is not often expressed explicity, but here's
a quote from King, Separation Processes (McGraw-Hill1980, p. 173)
talking about making coffee for freeze drying:
"...Since the water in this extract is subsequently removed by
evaporation or freeze-concentration, followed by spray-drying or
freeze-drying, there is a large incentive to obtain as concentrated an
extract as possible ... In order to obtain this high extract
concentration, countercurrent contacting of roast and ground coffee and
extract is used .... In this way water always contacts the most
depleted coffee grounds first and contacts the freshest grounds last...
the process can obviously be extended to any number of beds."
So, in effect, I'm saying that Dave Burley is correct when states that
Chemical Engineering literature claims higher efficiency for continuous
over batch processes. Although I'll point out that this does not state
whether a better quality extract is obtained - and my opinion of
instant coffee would doubt that, but that's a whole different argument!
- --------------------
I do own a copy of deClerk, and here's his take: (the 1994 reprinting
by Seibel, page 288 in Volume I)
"After the first wort has been run off, sparging is started. Many
years ago the spent grains were washed by steeping. Liquor was
introduced into the vessel by underletting, and after a a stand, was
run off in the same way as the first wort. The terminology used in the
obsolete process was "first steep wort" for the first wort, and then
second, third and fourth steep worts. In other words, the spent grains
were washed by dilution. Today, the spent grains are washed by
displacement. Hot liquor is sprinkled over the bed of spent grain from
above by means of the sparging machinery in the tub and the bed of
spent grains is kept covered with liquor during the whole process.
Sparging is a very much more efficient method of washing the spent
grains since oxidation is prevented and less liquor is used, an
important fact in the brewing of high-gravity beers. "
(no references are provided for this text)
So I'll close by saying, if anybody ever solves the model or bothers to
collect enough data to really prove the point, I'd love to hear about
it. But in the mean time, I doubt any of us are going to change from
our current methods we consider successful.
Dave Harsh Cincinnati, OH
Bloatarian Brewing League
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:26:16 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Post your location
Brewers
It's time for my semi-annual request that posters tell us their name
and location. It fosters community and might help answer questions
you have. Who knows, there might be a homebrewer in your hometown
that you never knew about, or maybe someone with the same water
problems that he's solved.
And for relative newcomers who wonder what this occasional "Rennerian
Coordinates" stuff is, it was this request that led to Rennerian
Coordinates about eight years ago. See my "The Definitive History of
Rennerian Coordinates" at
http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4235.html#4235-4.
Jeff
- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Calculate your Rennerian Coordinates at
http://hbd.org/rennerian_table.shtml
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:15:39 -0600
From: "Gary Glass" <gary at brewersassociation.org>
Subject: Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day
Calling All Homebrewers!
It's time to brew some beer for the greater good. The American Homebrewers
Association's 7th annual Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day is coming up on
November 5th (always held on the first Saturday in November). This is a day
of service.....well, and fun, if it's not fun you're not doing it
right.....where homebrewers around the globe gather their non-brewing
friends, neighbors, and family to teach them how to brew up some beer.
Why? Because more homebrewers = better world to live in!
Last year we had 1179 participants from 137 different sites. Help us make
this year even bigger. Sites registered before October 23 will be sent
copies of Zymurgy for Beginners, our 24-page guide for beginning homebrewers.
For details and to register your site see:
www.beertown.org/events/teach/index.html.
Cheers!
Gary Glass, Project Coordinator
Brewers Association
888-U-CAN-BREW
(303) 447-0816 x 121
gary at brewersassociation.org
www.beertown.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:14:06 -0700
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Re: Comments re HBD 4866
Bill Velek wrote:
> Boris: One word -- "TinyURL" :-)
> Instead of posting a long link and asking people to patch it together,
> it would be better to change it, as I have now done for your link, into
> this: http://tinyurl.com/96twz .
I won't attempt to speak for others, but I very much dislike the posting of
such abbreviated URLs. They give no clue as to where they are actually going.
For all I can tell, your example link goes someplace offensive like goatse.cx
or democrats.org.
It would be nice if the HBD didn't pitch a fit on long lines, but reassembling
a long URL that's been split takes a minimal amount of time (copy it to a text
editor, remove the line breaks, and paste the result into your browser) and
leaves no questions about where you're going.
With some sites, you can get rid of extra crud in the URL and it'll still work.
Consider this link to Charlie Papazian's latest at Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060531053/103-8568819-2801460?v=glance&n=
283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance
All you really need to post is the part up to the book's ISBN:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060531053/
eBay can also have its URLs shortened considerably. Consider this
click-through from a search page (disclaimer: this isn't my auction and I don't
know the seller; it was just the first result returned in a search for
"Cornelius keg"):
http://cgi.ebay.com/FOUR-5-five-gallon-keg-homebrew-soda-tank-Cornelius_W0Q
QitemZ7552231420QQcategoryZ67137QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Plugging the item number into Firefox's search feature brings back an even
longer URL for the same item:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7552231420&ru=http%3A%2F
%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Fquery%3D7552231420%26MfcISA
PICommand%3DGetResult%26ht%3D1%26ebaytag1%3Debayreg%26srchdesc%3Dn%26maxRec
ordsReturned%3D300%26maxRecordsPerPage%3D50%26SortProperty%3DMetaEndSort%26
fvi%3D1
Only a very small part of this, though, will take you to the same page:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7552231420
Plug in a different item number at the end and you'll get a different item.
This is very much a site-specific method for shortening URLs, but it doesn't
take much experimentation with a given site to find a method that works (or to
find that you can't shorten it, in which case a decent site design means it's
not all that long to begin with).
_/_ Scott Alfter
/ v \ Visit the SNAFU website today!
(IIGS( http://snafu.alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:30:52 -0400
From: "Chris Horner" <chrishorner68 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Any Wilmington, NC folks heading to the Lighthouse International Beer Festival?
Greetings,
Finally getting settled in down here on the southern Carolina Coast, and
making some free time on the weekends to socialize and meet new folks!
Thinking about heading out to Hugh MacRae Park for this.
http://www.lighthousebeerandwine.com/2005festival.pdf
For me, the 20 bucks is worth it just to catch Colonel Bruce Hampton & the
Codetalkers - but I know that's steep if you're not really interested in the
music.
My dad's in bachelor mode this weekend, so I figured I'd drag him down there
- we used to go to GABF behind Dominion Breweries all the time when we lived
up north.
Anyone here been before? What can I expect for 20 bucks? A sample glass
and a few tokens?
If any of you are going to be there - or have displays setup there, please
let me know - it would be nice to meet some fellow homebrewers.
Chris Horner
http://db.etree.org/chorner
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:00:59 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Tinyurl (was: Comments re HBD 4866)
On Tuesday, 11 October 2005 at 14:19:05 -0500, Bill Velek wrote:
> Boris: One word -- "TinyURL" :-)
> Instead of posting a long link and asking people to patch it together,
> it would be better to change it, as I have now done for your link, into
> this: http://tinyurl.com/96twz .
Yes, but will it be there in two years' time when somebody reads the
archives? Tinyurl is great for interactive use, but for something in
an archive, I'd like to see the original.
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4868, 10/12/05
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