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HOMEBREW Digest #4883
HOMEBREW Digest #4883 Tue 08 November 2005
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org
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Contents:
aluminum immersion chiller (Raj B Apte)
Batch size vs fermentation time (Thomas Rohner)
Subject: A true honeymoon ("Jodie")
Just another Fridge question (Dave Perez)
Figures, don't it. (Vincent Dongarra)
Plate Chillers & Brewery Organization (Bob Hall)
strange layer in primary fermenter (Matt)
time to brew, indeed! (leavitdg)
[Fwd: [Fwd: Fermentation Rate]] ("A.J deLange")
cinnamon,...and haze? (leavitdg)
RE: A true honeymoon [Sec: Unclassified] ("Williams, Rowan")
Bad year for hops (4th send attempt, thangyouverymuch) (Francisco Jones)
Chocolate DME and salt brine ice chiller ("eric")
Small Cap Stox Can Sizzle ("Kerry I. Wilkerson")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 20:54:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Raj B Apte <raj_apte at yahoo.com>
Subject: aluminum immersion chiller
Hi all,
I'm in the process of putting together a new kettle. I
decided on Aluminum because I need the thermal
conductivity (had scorching problems with stainless). The
health questions didn't convince me. And new, 6mm thick
stock pots are readily available for < $100. Then I started
wondering about my immersion chiller.
I have read that copper--if its not cleaned with acid
before use--does oxidize wort. So, it makes sense to make
an immersion chiller from Aluminum rather than copper. The
thermal properties are close, and I'll get less oxidation.
Because I use tubing and clamps, the lack of solderability
doesn't bother me at all.
Has anyone tried this? Am I missing something here?
raj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 11:20:34 +0100
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Batch size vs fermentation time
Hello all
In general i read that bigger vessels give a faster and more complete
fermetation. Big fermentation tanks are cooled asymetrically to keep the
wort in motion and the yeast suspension.
There is one problem with large fermenters. It is the pressure at the
bottom. 10m height gives you 1bar or 14.5psi at the bottom. This can
have a negative effect on the yeast performance. (as i know from a
brewery near us. They had huge problems, when they switched to bigger
tanks. They had to change from the "house-yeast" to a more pressure
tolerant strain.)
Besides the movement in the fermenter, it should make no difference in
the homebrew scale.(from 5 to 20 gal) Given the same yeast count and
temperature.
Cheers Thomas
don't know the rennerians
but you can find me as the only one in switzerland on frappr.com/hbd
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 07:24:29 -0500
From: "Jodie" <jodiedavis at adelphia.net>
Subject: Subject: A true honeymoon
Hey Aaron,
Congrats! Before we were married my husband and I took a trip and while
he was at a meeting I bought fabric--what quilters do everywhere they
go. When he saw my purchases that evening he suggested that the next
time we travel we pack an extra suitcase to be sure we had room to bring
home my goodies. He's been the same way with beer equipment. Yeah for
supportive spouses!
www.MoreBeer.com has a wish list function. I've never used it but assume
it's something like that on Amazon, and could be just what you're
looking for.
Jodie
Jodie Davis
www.jodieandcompany.com
www.friendsinthebee.com
www.ccarhomebrewclub.com
www.rubberduckie.net
www.quiltersnewsnetwork.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 09:38:43 -0500
From: Dave Perez <perez15 at cox.net>
Subject: Just another Fridge question
So I know we can control a regular refrigerator and a chest freezer to
fermenting temps with an external controller ala Johnson. My question
is, can I control a forced air, upright freezer to refridge temps? I
will initially use the external Johnson controller but want to
ultimately change the original freezer thermostat to a refrigerator
thermostat.
Will it Work???
Dave Perez
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL
Home of the Hogtown Brewoff November 19th. Get your entries in now!!!
http://www.hogtownbrewers.org/BrewoffFrames.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:46:05 -0500
From: Vincent Dongarra <vdongarra at gmail.com>
Subject: Figures, don't it.
Directly after work yesterday, I went home and found all activity to
have stopped on my Pale Ale. Thanks everyone, for your help. Any
suggestions on an ale yeast that can do a little better at cooler ale
temps?
Thanks
Vincent
- --
Montgomery Village, MD
Bonum vinum laetificat cor hominis
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 10:05:11 -0500
From: Bob Hall <rallenhall at henry-net.com>
Subject: Plate Chillers & Brewery Organization
First of all, I too miss the volume on HBD. Topics and responses here seem
to have a depth and quality that aren't matched at other sites. I'd guess
that most of the traffic has swung over to the relatively new AHA list
which has a built-in member base.
OK, a couple of things:
1) With Christmas coming it's time to get brew-toys on the list. There
seems to be a variety of plate chillers on the market ... Therminator,
Shirron, etc. What are your experiences and recommendations (or
non-recommendations). Do improvements in chill-down time and water savings
justify the cost? Can these chillers actually be used in a gravity flow
system, or should I also plan on adding a pump to the list?
2) Speaking of toys, it seems that I keep adding items to the basement
brewery, but the floor space just doesn't get any larger. Are there any
organization or storage tips and tricks out there that have helped make
your brewery a more efficient and/or pleasant place to work?
Thanks lots,
Bob Hall
Napoleon, OH
65.3, 189.7 Rennarian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:55:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: strange layer in primary fermenter
Several times in the past, and on my latest brew, I have noticed a
phenomenon in my (glass) fermenters, in which there is a strange layer
on top of the beer. It is the same color as the beer itself and can be
anywhere from very thin to maybe 3/4" thick. It distinguishes itself
from the rest of the beer by being completely transparent--while below
it the beer is still hazy from what I am pretty confident is just yeast
that hasn't settled.
When you jostle the fermenter, the layer doesn't immediately mix with
the rest of the beer. Instead it swirls and diffuses down into it. If
you shake the carboy hard the layer will disappear, but hours later it
returns.
Beers that have shown this in the past have had no obvious accompanying
signs of infection. This latest is a pretty standard tripel, with
1.072 OG from pils malt and 15% sugar, pretty light hopping, rising
ferment temp from an initial 66 up to 76 degrees F. WY3787 from an XL
smack pack stepped up with a 1.5L starter, was still fermenting well (4
seconds/bubble on a 3-piece airlock) on the 6th day when I left town.
Came back on the 9th day and fermentation appears to be stopped and it
is clearing just a bit, and there is also this layer.
I have thought in the past that this phenomenon is just the visual
effect of yeast fully settling out of the top layer first (as you would
expect), but the layer *seems* too well-defined and distinct for that.
If a yeast is flocculating poorly, might such a layer appear at the
top?
I have also wondered if it is due to some (probably aerobic) bacteria
that somehow coagulates protiens. In the past I have associated this
layer with excessive headspace in the secondary--and I did have to
remove the airlock from this 4G batch (in a 6.5 G carboy!) on day 3
because it filled with yeast, and it spent two days under a tight
aluminum foil cap. When the airlock was then replaced on day 5 the
krausen was still 6" high, at least, and I would expect the
still-violent ferment did push most of the oxygen out, but maybe not.
Any ideas? Has anyone seen this before?
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 13:30:33 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: time to brew, indeed!
Someone suggested it is too quiet, so here goes Darrell :
What has been brewed at the Cumberland Head Brewery since July:
7/14/05: Bastille Dry Ale
Brewed on Bastille Day, first use of wlp007
8.25 pale
.25 Biscuit
.5 Caraamber
20.2 IBU (Yakima Goldings and Tet)
OG 1.05
FG 1.010
%abv 5.26
7/22/05: English Dry Ale, 2nd use of wlp007
9.5 pale
.25 Biscuit
.25 Cara Amber
OG 1.053
FG 1.010
%abv 4.5
ibu 32.5 (Amarillo, and Brewers Gold)
7/31/05: English Red Ale, 3rd use of 007
6.33 pale
.5 Crystal
4.5 Pilsner
pinch of Biscuit
OG 1.06
FG 1.004
ibu 42.2 (Amarillo and Brewers Gold)
%abv 7.4
8/10/05: Sleepwalker Brown Ale, 4th use of 007
10.5 pale
1 crystal (dark 80 lov)
.5 Brown (Fawcett's)
OG 1.058
FG 1.005
ibu 29.6 (tet, Brewers Gold, Yakima Goldings)
%abv 7
8/25/05: Hefe, first use wlp300
6lb pils
3 lb wheat
1 lb rye
8 cups rice hulls
og 1.053
fg 1.009
ibu 18.2 (tet)
%abv 5.9
9/2/05: Rye Hefe Wit, 2nd use wlp300
6 pils
3 wheaqt
2 rye
12 cups rice hulls
this one had an identity issue: started as a hefe, but used corriander like a
wit
og 1.056
fg 1.010
ibu 15 (tet)
%abv 6
9/9/05: Jake's Blonde Abbey, 1st use wlp530
5.5 pils
2 wheat
1 vienna
1.5 Flaked Brown rice
og 1.052
fg 1.007
ibu 26.3 (home grown goldings, and Hal)
%abv 5.9
9/16/05: Zapatista Lager, Saflager s-23: 2 pkgs , re-hydrated
9.5 pils
.5 CaraAmber
1.0 Vienna
og 1.06
fg 1.01
ibu 35.4 (home goldings, and Saaz)
%abv 6.6
9/23/05: Passing Thru Abbey, 2nd use of wlp530
7.5 pils
3 wheat
1 vienna
og 1.06
fg 1.01
ibu 31.5 ( home Goldings, and Hal)
%abv 6.6
9/30/05: Gingered Pale Ale, Safale SO4, 2 pkg rehydrated
10 pils
.5 wheat
.5 caraamber
lots of fresh ginger root in the boil
og 1.059
fg 1.010
ibu 38.7 (home goldings and Yakima goldings)
%abv 6.5
10/10/05: Sleepy Hollow Ale, 2 Danstar Nottingham, re-hydrated
6 pale
1 wheat
3 pils
1 carapils
touch special B
baked 1/4 of a large pumpkin, chopped, 350 degrees in oven for 1 hour, with lots
of spices, added to mash.
added tons of fresh ginger root, nutmeg, cardomom, allspice, clove, etc to the
boil
og 1.06
fg 1.007
ibu 35.1 (home goldings, and Brewers gold)
%abv 7
10/20/05: Brown Abbey, 3rd use of slurry from wlp530
7 pils
.5 brown
1.5 wheat
1 KilnAmber
og 1.047
fg unknown...still in primary...I'm slippin..
11/4/05: Rusty's Steam Beer, wlp810 Calif Lager: first use
9.5 pale
.5 CaraAmber
.5 Vienna
og 1.057
fg not determined yet
not a british pale ale, but I put in some Burton Salts, just for kicks and
noticed a pH drop
11/11/05: California Common, 2nd use of wlp810 this will happen this friday.
recipe like the above, but with a little more zip.
I am just geeting caught up!
Happy Brewing!
Darrell
Plattsburgh,NY 44 41 58 N Latitude
73 27 12 W Longitude
[544.9 miles, 68.9]Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 21:13:50 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Fermentation Rate]]
Francisco asked about fermentation rate as a function of batch size.
Ceteris paribus (including pitching rate) there should be no
differences. If, OTOH, pitching rates are lowered a longer fermentation
time and less overall attenuation can be expected as the yeast must
spend longer in the log phase and must go through more generations which
generally results in weaker cells. Another very major factor is
temperature. The difference of a single degree can make a large
difference. As a general rule a 4C change in temperature doubles or
halves the rate of a reaction and the reactions taking place in yeast
cells are no exception. Another factor which may have an influence is
fermenter geometry. One in which for example the cooling jacket(s) cause
the generation of circulating currents will keep the yeast cells in
suspension and speed the fermentation relative to a geometry in which
the liquid does not get circulated. And as another respondent mentioned,
in a larger volume the ratio of surface area to mass contained goes down
so that heat generated by the fermentation may build up if no steps are
taken to remove it. This would result in faster (even runaway)
fermentation.
This very subject is of interest to me because I have relatively
recently returned to brewing after a hiatus of 4 years. My new supplier
(the old one went out of business) tends to stock White Labs rather than
Wyeast so I have been using White Labs with which I had no previous
experience. I find the White Labs lager strains to be much slower than I
remember similar Wyeast strains. To get a half a degree Plato per day I
must hold the temperature at 50F whereas my recall is that I used to get
nearly a degree a day from the simiular Wyeast strains at 47F which was
always my standard temperature for lagers. My first Pils fermented at 47
was in the fermenter nearly 7 weeks. Indeed the White Labs website
indicates that lager fermentations may take a month or more. While I
certainly cannot complain about the results in the case of that Pils who
wants his fermenters tied up for 7 weeks? So the question is: have
others found the White Lab lager strains to be slow or is my memory
faulty (WRT to the current topic - I know it's faulty WRT to most other
subjects)? I'll note that I have been pitching a 10% starter at
fermentation temperature and oxygenate to 15 mg/L. I'm also aware that
the Whitelabs website advises pitching at 70F and dropping to 48 - 55F
only after things are well under way. I'm too chicken to do this being
nervous enough about the growth metabolites in a starter of such volume
grown at 70F.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:39:54 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: cinnamon,...and haze?
Hey;
Has anyone here made a correlation between the use of sticks of cinnamon, in
the boil, and haze in the final product? I have done this twice recently,
using different yeasts (wlp530, and Danstar Notingham) and have found that both
batches are hazy. I brew frequently, and, unless it is a Hefe, or a wit, etc,
they are not regularly hazy.
Any ideas as to a relationship between haze and cinnamon?
Happy Brewing!
Darrell
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 09:55:37 +1100
From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au>
Subject: RE: A true honeymoon [Sec: Unclassified]
Hey Aaron,
Why bother with a register? You do have a best man, doncha?! ;-)
Cheers,
Rowan Williams
Canberra Brewers Club
[9588.6, 261.5] AR (statute miles)
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 16:55:16 -0600
From: Francisco Jones <frandog at earthlink.net>
Subject: Bad year for hops (4th send attempt, thangyouverymuch)
Rama, near San Fran, laments:
|The 2005 year was a wash for the hop vines this year too. Some squirrels
|took an interest in the younger rhizomes of one varietal, so only the Mt
|Hood survived- but interestingly didn't produce a single cone (despite
|being 3 years old, and producing the previous 2 years. Whats up with
|that?)
I had very high hopes this year for my two newest vines, an Ultra and a
Willamette, since this was their second summer. They are in half barrels
so as to not take over the yard, but they are my only hops to have proper
ropes to grow on (0.25 in diameter jute, 25 ft high). However, this year
they produced nothing, nada, the big zilcho! A few (and I mean like
literally, three) hops formed early on, but they stayed small, browned
early, and had no aroma when crushed. There was nothing at all to
harvest. Those two vines produced more harvestable hops the first year I
planted them. I think I got about 8g of Willamette and 17g of Ultra last
year (dry weight).
You can imagine my disappointment! I am awash in Casacdes every year,
despite their inadequate trellis, but those vines are over 10 years
old. But I'm sick of Casacdes - I've been itching for some variety, and
some hops more appropriate to style(s). And even those Cascades didn't
produce as well as the previous two years. My Fuggles NEVER do well, but
the harvest was zero this year, compared to something like 20g (dry) last
year. We did have a very dry and hot summer in the Chicago area this
year. I'm hoping the bad harvest is as simple as that, and not something
more sinister. But San Fran is a long way from here.
So bad hop crop in Chicago and San Fran for 2005. Anyone else have harvest
reports?
Just as a point of reference, because I'm a data nerd, my hops have been
consistently losing 80% of their fresh-picked weight during the drying
process. I have been keeping better track this year than in previous
years, so I can better estimate the expected dry weight right when I come
in from the field. I have seen 75% listed in the lit. as the amount of
weight they will lose. So I was surprised that mine are getting drier. I
have a good oast with plenty of space, forced air, and gentle heat. That,
plus the laminated O2 barrier bags (polyethylene/polyester) and a vacuum
sealer have revolutionized my hop production and storage process. Now I
just need to find something more effective at tamping them than my
fist. An ammonia/alcohol solution is very effective at dissolving the
staining, persistent yellow hop resins off your hands, vacuum sealer, and
kitchen counter, btw.
Francisco Jones
Kankakee, IL
[256 magnetic/196 nm] AR
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 18:35:07 -0700
From: "eric" <zeee1 at nebonet.com>
Subject: Chocolate DME and salt brine ice chiller
Hello all
If you have read my post on ice temp vs chilling temp, delete it from your
memory. I mistakenly wrote that if the ice is right at 32 f (melting point)
then adding salt would not lower the water temp. My bad!
Adding salt to ice water will lower the temp of the water from the latent
heat in the ice.
I would like to know what to expect from chocolate DME, adding one pound to
4-5 pounds of light DME for a 5 gallon batch. Is 1 lb too much? Is this
similar to "chocolate" grains, as in Porter-like?
Or is this more chocolate milk like?
Thanks
Eric
Deweyville, UT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 15:31:31 +0000
From: "Kerry I. Wilkerson" <kerry_wilkerson_ui at lineone.net>
Subject: Small Cap Stox Can Sizzle
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In this issue of the November St0ck-Pick
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Symb0l: HTSC . pk
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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_____________________________________________
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------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4883, 11/08/05
*************************************
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