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HOMEBREW Digest #4728
HOMEBREW Digest #4728 Mon 28 February 2005
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org
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Contents:
Re: Help with Electric System ("Craig S. Cottingham")
Approximating British pale ale in Germany (Randy Ricchi)
Electric brewing ("Todd Snyder")
RE: Help with Electric System ("Todd Snyder")
WZZ HBC 2005 Winners ("John C.Tull")
Re: Irish kegging equipment (Peter Cox)
Re: Re: "No Hose Barb" site ("Meyer, Aaron D.")
Re: Electric brew questions (Kent Fletcher)
AHA board elections (Jeff Renner)
Growing hops in Central Texas ("Randy Scott")
Small keg pressure system ("Michael O'Donnell")
SafAle 56 American Ale ("H. Dowda")
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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:16:03 -0600
From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig at cottingham.net>
Subject: Re: Help with Electric System
On Feb 26, 2005, at 12:48, Scott McAfee <scmcafee at cox.net> wrote:
> 2) How long does it take 2000W to heat up 15 gallons of water?
Unfortunately, there's not enough information in your question to
provide a proper answer. That, however, will not stop me. :-)
The equation we're interested in is:
degF/min = (0.0068 * Watts) / (gallons * loss factor)
where "loss factor" is a fudge that depends on how well insulated your
vessel is, whether it's covered (which I suppose is somewhat the same
thing), etc. The web page where I found this equation (which is now
accessable only through the Wayback Machine <http://web.archive.org>,
and no, I don't have the URL anymore) suggests 1.05 for an insulated
vessel and 1.10 to 1.15 for less well-insulated vessels.
Let's assume that your vessel is uninsulated and a pretty good
conductor of heat, so we'll choose the higher end for the loss factor.
degF/min = (0.0068 * 2000) / (15 * 1.15) = 0.788
That's about 3 degF every 4 minutes. If you're heating from 60 degF (a
little above normal ground temp for mid-latitude America) to 212 degF
(boiling), it's going to take 193 minutes -- more than 3 hours.
Insulating the vessel cuts a whopping 17 minutes off of the time, to
slightly *under* 3 hours.
There are only two ways you're going to radically change that time.
Decrease the volume of water, or increase the wattage.
- --
Craig S. Cottingham
craig at cottingham.net
OpenPGP key available from:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7977F79C
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:47:11 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Approximating British pale ale in Germany
Others have suggested a small amount of caramal (crystal) malt and pils.
The problem is, pale ale malt doesn't taste caramelly. I've found a
mixture of vienna malt and pils malt, roughly 50/50, brings good
results.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:55:48 -0500
From: "Todd Snyder" <tmsnyder at buffalo.edu>
Subject: Electric brewing
Eric,
Electric brewing has many big advantages, one is SPEED! 2 4500 watt
elements bring 6 gallons of water from tap temperature to a boil in
something like 16 minutes.
The way I did this was to install a sub-panel in my brewery. I got a 220v
50A GFI breaker for the main panel and ran #6 wire to the sub-panel in the
brewery. Then I switch on/off your heaters using 20A breakers in the
subpanel, using #12 wire for the elements, making sure everything is
grounded. This includes the kettle near the element.
If you're not comfortable with wiring, hire an electrician. You might be
able to get one of them to do it as a side job after their regular work and
pay them in beer! And don't be afraid of 220 V, it's actually only 110 V if
you accidentally touch a hot wire, just like "regular" power. The only way
you'd see 220 would be if you were unlucky/stupid enough to touch the two
'hot' wires at the same time. This should be almost impossible though,
because when you're all done everything should be inside enclosures and
safe.
There's no reason to run the large low watt density elements at a reduced
voltage. They won't scorch unless you fail to clean them after brewing; they
seem to build a white/brown protein layer which eventually will flake off
the element. Scrubbing them well in between uses is quick and easy and
prevents this.
To anyone thinking electric brewing might not be safe, consider all the
people out there bathing and showering in water being simultaneously heated
by electricity in their hot water tanks! And those are not GFI protected.
Todd in Buffalo
Bill Tobler writes:
"Electric brewing indoors is great. In my opinion, you must use 220
volts so you don't spend half your time waiting for things to get hot.
This takes some serious power requirements, but it is worth the extra
trouble."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:24:26 -0500
From: "Todd Snyder" <tmsnyder at buffalo.edu>
Subject: RE: Help with Electric System
Scott,
I'm not sure mounting the element on the bottom is a good idea, that's where
any leaks or boil over will end up.
I bent two of my elements 90 degrees by placing them in a tubing bender, the
two legs fit into the bender in the 1/4 and 3/8" slots as close to the
threaded end as possible. No need to heat it to bend it, they're made of
copper tubing.
2000W is not very much, a toaster oven is about the same wattage.
2000W heating 15 gallons of water will take:
(15 gal)(3780 mL/gal)(4.186 J/g-degC)/(4000 J/s) = 59 s/degC
(60s/min)/(59 s/degC) = 1.01 degC/min = 1.8 degF/min
So to go from 40F to 212F would take 310 minutes! That's too long unless
you're heating your HLT overnight for the next day's brewing.
Todd in Buffalo
Scott McAfee wrote:
"Rick was asking about hot water heater element installation.
I picked up a 2000W 110v element at Home Depot and was wondering the
same thing.
On a return trip to Home Depot, I noticed they had an adapter to go from
a screw in type
element to a four bolt bulkhead/seal type hot water heater fitting. I
haven't installed it yet,
but it was only six bucks so I figured it was worth the try. I'm
putting it on the flat spot on
the bottom of a Sankey keg I'm not currently using. My element has an
OD at the
threads of 1 and 9/32, by the way.
Some questions I'm wondering:
1) can you heat up and bend those elements without damaging them?
2) How long does it take 2000W to heat up 15 gallons of water?"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:50:32 -0800
From: "John C.Tull" <jctull at gmail.com>
Subject: WZZ HBC 2005 Winners
The winners are in! We had a wonderful event that included excellent
judges and stewards. The Best of Show kudos go to Jonathan Plise` of
the Diabolical Order of Zymurical Enthusiasts (DOZE)! Congratulations
to him and everyone that entered beers in this event. We had 162
entries from 62 entrants spanning 9 states. This was the biggest number
of entries we have had in the last four years of the competition, and
it is a 30% increase over last year's entries!
Feedback forms from judges will be mailed out by 5 March 2005, and
prizes should be out by the end of the month.
You can view complete results online at:
http://washoezz.net/results2005.html
Cheers,
John Tull
WZZ HBC Organizer
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:28:52 -0600
From: Peter Cox <pcox at southbull.com>
Subject: Re: Irish kegging equipment
Calvin -
Thanks for the information. I'll definitely bring my kegs
over with me, then - as well as the regulator.
What sorts of kegs are used there, then?
Cheers,
Peter
On 22:06 25/Feb/05, Calvin Perilloux wrote:
> Peter Cox asks about his kegging equipment:
>
> > I'll be moving back to Ireland soon, and am not sure
> > if the standards are the same there.
> > If I take my kegs and cylinder/regulator back with me,
> > will I be able to get refills/replacement parts? Or am I better
> > off leaving the gear here and getting new stuff in Ireland?
>
> Much better to just leave it at my house in the USA,
> where I'll dispose of it for you. But seriously...
>
> I'll take a guess that the Irish standards are probably
> the same (or nearly) to the English standards. Bring most
> of your kit. I'm assuming you're talking about the usual
> 5-gal keg system that homebrewers use, and not the commercial
> Sankey/etc. stuff. Here's the details, based on my UK experience,
> which I think would *probably* apply for Ireland/EU:
>
> (1) Corny kegs. Great! You can maybe get parts in the UK,
> ir possibly Ireland, but for small things like poppets,
> etc. just order them from the USA. They're light and cheap
> to ship. Corny kegs are in use in the UK by homebrewers
> but are a premium item, rather expensive. So bring yours.
>
> (2) Regulator. I've used my British regulator in the UK,
> Australia, and in the USA as well. No problem, but
> your US regulator probably has that unfathomable psi stuff
> instead of kPa and Bar. It might confuse people who
> use those things over there. Hee hee. But you'll manage OK,
> and it ought to work just as usual. Make sure you have
> washers, not the "washerless" fittings I've seen on a
> few US regulator/tank sets.
>
> (3) CO2 tank. This might be the only problem. First off,
> you'll almost certainly have to ship it empty. Then to
> get it filled, I'm not sure the test stamp from the US
> is recognised over there. Not only that, some places
> require that you lease/rent/borrow THEIR tanks, and they
> won't even touch yours. I think Air Liquide was bad about
> that. BOC and distributors were better.
>
> So I'd sell the tank here, barring any disputing evidence from
> someone else on HBD. And if you're lucky enough to live three
> doors down from a welding supply shop like I did (nice neighbour-
> hood -- note that only a homebrewer might call that "lucky"!)
> then they'll fix you up one way or another.
>
> Calvin Perilloux
> Middletown, Maryland, USA
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:50:32 -0600
From: "Meyer, Aaron D." <Aaron.Meyer at oneok.com>
Subject: Re: Re: "No Hose Barb" site
>"I purchased my QD's from US Plastics (part #'s 60465 & 60467). They
were >very inexpensive."
>$5 for each connection + shipping, if I read this right. Hose barbs
are >inexpensive. These QD's are not.
>Will someone wake me up when quick disconnects get less than the 75
cent nylon hose barbs I can buy at my local hardware store?
I use nylon garden hose fittings myself. If you are after an alternative
to QD and barb fittings check them out. My hardware store has them for
about 2$ to 2.5$ per connection.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:08:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Electric brew questions
Scot McAfee pondered:
> On a return trip to Home Depot, I noticed they had
> an adapter to go from a screw in type element to a
> four bolt bulkhead/seal type hot water heater
> fitting. I haven't installed it yet, but it was only
> six bucks so I figured it was worth the try. I'm
> putting it on the flat spot on the bottom of a
> Sankey keg I'm not currently using. My element
> has an OD at the threads of 1 and 9/32, by the way.
Good luck with the flange adapter. It has no
relationship to a bulkhead fitting, it's made to be
able to install a screw-in element on a water heater
that has a matching four bolt flange. Might as well
return it to HD before you ruin your keg. BTW, the
threads on that element are 1" NPS, just like 90+% of
them. There were elements made with inch and a
quarter NPS threads, but they're pretty much obsolete.
> Some questions I'm wondering:
> 1) can you heat up and bend those elements without
> damaging them?
No. Don't try it, you'll just destroy the element.
Think about it: Heater elements burn themselves out
in a very short time if energized dry, and it would
take a lot more heat that that to be able to bend the
rod.
> 2) How long does it take 2000W to heat up 15 gallons
> of water?
A 2000 watt element will heat 15 gallons of water in
an at about 0.7 to 0.9 deg F per minute, depending on
how well the tun is insulated.
Also, that 2000 watt element should be connected to a
dedicated 20 amp circuit, with 12 ga minimum wire
size. If you plug it into a typical 15 amp household
circuit it will trip. If it doesn't trip, don't think
you're OK, that's even worse! 2000 watts at 117 volts
(average US) is 17 amps, and if it doesn't trip a 15
amp circuit, then you are risking a fire.
Like Bill Tobler said, if you want to go electric, do
it right and go with a 220 volt setup. Of course it
you only need to make 3-5 gallon batches, and time is
not a consideration, then use a 1500 watt max 120 volt
element, plugged into a GFCI outlet. It will work,
just takes longer, and you don't get a real vigorous
boil.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:46:03 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: AHA board elections
AHA members
That's all of you, right? ;-)
The election for the AHA Governing Committee (formerly Board of
Advisors) is open now until April 1.
Candidates' statements and ballots are available in the March/April
Zymurgy or online at
http://beertown.org/homebrewing/membership/elections.aspx.
Your AHA Governing Committee representatives have a very direct
impact on the direction of your Association. There are nine well
qualified candidates running for the four open spots. Please review
the statements and vote. We on the Governing Committee want the AHA
to be a member driven and responsive organization. Your vote is part
of this.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:11:14 -0600
From: "Randy Scott" <lists at rscott.us>
Subject: Growing hops in Central Texas
I would like to try growing hops this year. I'm in Austin TX - about 31 deg.
latitude. That's a fair bit out of the recommended growing zone of 35-55
deg. I assume that this means two problems - it's too hot, and there aren't
enough hours of sunlight per day.
Any recommendations on varieties for this climate? I've done the Google
thing but haven't come up with a consensus on what varieties would work best
here. Cascade seems like a popular grower's choice. If they'd grow, I'd like
to try Willamette and Kent Golding - although the latter seems like a long
shot for this climate.
Also, I've gotten conflicting advice on where to plant (south-facing to
maximize sunlight exposure, or east-facing to minimize heat). Thoughts?
Any other advise or experiences?
thanks
ras
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:44:05 -0800
From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu>
Subject: Small keg pressure system
Hi all,
I was just trolling around the net and came up with something that I've
been looking for: a small CO2 delivery system for taking kegs to
parties. I knew that the paintball people had little CO2 tanks, but they
use a strange valve (similar to disposable propane tanks) that won't fit a
standard regulator. Then I heard about a "stabilizer" regulator which
allows a lot of adjustment... turns out that they are already aware of the
homebrew community, since they offer a "Beer" version.
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/online-catalog/stabilizer.htm
No affiliation, yadda, yadda... can't even afford one, but it looks cool
without the waste of using disposable cartridges. Might be handy for people
trying to do conversions in really small refrigerators.
cheers,
Mike
Monterey, CA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:24:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: SafAle 56 American Ale
This product is on the Crosby and Baker web site. Is
anyone selling it?
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4728, 02/28/05
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