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HOMEBREW Digest #4619
HOMEBREW Digest #4619 Mon 04 October 2004
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org
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Contents:
Cider ("Tom Clark")
Re: warm lager fermentations ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
Re: Priming with DME ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
link of the week - malt (Bob Devine)
Manifolds, bottoms and screens OH MY! ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
Priming with DME versus corn sugar (Fred Johnson)
More cider questions (hbd.to.theq)
beer in Providence, RI ("Sean McCabe")
RE: Formula for estimating O.G. with refractometer & hydrometer ("Bill Pierce")
Re: German Pilsner Yeast ("Rowan Williams")
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Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 22:27:12 -0400
From: "Tom Clark" <rtclark555 at charter.net>
Subject: Cider
I've been lurking here for months; but now I see there is a thread on cider
making.
I have found that artificial sweeteners work fine in cider that has been
fermented out too dry.
Also, try adding one or two red hot cinnamon candies to each bottle as you
bottle it. They don't cause any significant further fermentation but they
do add a little more spice to the flavor.
Tom Clark
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:44:36 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: warm lager fermentations
On Sunday, 3 October 2004 at 15:01:44 -0400, Dave Burley wrote:
> Brewsters:
>
> Rowan Williams asks about what yeast to use to ferment a pilsner type lager at
> a higher temperature such as 18C/64 F
>
> I'd use Wyeast 2112, a California Steam Beer yeast traditionally fermented at
> room temperature up to 65F
>
> or Wyeast 2565 a Kolsch yeast which gives a lager like character to pilsner
> worts at a higher temperature ( 56 -70F) .
>
> Of the two, I 'd start with the Kolsch yeast as California Steam Beer is
> traditionally used with a wort which contains some crystal malt, but it does
> work fine with a plain lager wort, just a little more fruity than the Kolsch,
> IMHO
How close do these come to Lager, especially German lager? I've made
a number of brews with 2565, and though I'm satisfied with the
results, I didn't get anything that I would consider lager-like.
Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:49:48 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Priming with DME
On Sunday, 3 October 2004 at 19:30:05 -0400, Michael Lindner wrote:
> I have a recipe that calls for 3/4C corn sugar for priming. I'd like to
> substitute DME for the corn sugar, but am unsure what the appropriate amount
> is. I looked at some other recipes, and they all seem to call for 1 to 1 1/4C
> DME for priming, yet another source I have says to substitute DME for corn
> sugar 1:1. What's the "right" answer to keep my hefeweizen non-explosive?
DME is typically round 94% maltose, so you could get away with using
the same quantity as for sugar. I don't know about corn sugar (we
don't use it here), but I'd guess that that's closer to 100% sugars,
so if you're being very picky you might try 5% more DME.
I've used DME for priming in the past. The trouble is that it creates
a mini-Kräsen [that's the German a with a pair of dots on it] in
the bottle, leaving a slight mess at the top.
Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 23:21:20 -0600
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: link of the week - malt
I missed my weekly post last week and probably will
next weekend. So, here's a three-fer on barley and malt.
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/css/330/five/BarleyOverview.htm
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/bmg/noonan.html
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/bmg/schwarzsb2.html
The two articles from Brewing Techniques are too good
to be neglected. The Oregon State course covers other
grains too. For example, week 4 covers rice for
you saki brewers, as well as wheat.
As a lagniappe, here's a handy guide to "know your barley"
http://www.ambainc.org/pub/kymbv/kymbv%202004.pdf
Bob Devine
Riverton, UT
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 23:27:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: Manifolds, bottoms and screens OH MY!
Doug Moyer writes:
"Of those that have tried several types, what works better? False bottom?
Manifold? EasyMasher-style SS screen"?
well then... I do believe that you have asked the big question... AT LEAST IT
IS NOT ABOUT CLINITEST!!!
So... I have made a few manifolds and gotten good extraction (65-70% eff)...
I switched to SS false bottoms in my converted kegs and never looked back. I
even had a friend make me a 23" false bottom for my 55 gallon system. All was
good. I was achieving 75-80% eff. I was in heaven...
About 5 years ago... a friend named Wayne Holder (now ZYMICO) sent me some
bazooka screens... I have since not used anything else. Even in the 55 gallon
system. I routinely get 80-85% eff and have not used my SS false bottoms in
several years.
That is my .02 cents
C'ya!
-Scott
=====
"I can't help it... I love being a fart machine"
- Heather Braker
http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat - Skotrats Beer Page
http://www.brewrats.org - BrewRats HomeBrew Club
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:13:48 -0400
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: Priming with DME versus corn sugar
Michael Lindner recently asked for advice on how to switch from cane
sugar to DME to prime his hefeweizen. I would not recommend the switch.
There is a good bit of misinformation (in my opinion) about priming
with DME. Some claim various improvements in the beer, such as improved
head retention or better mouthfeel, when priming with DME instead of
using dextrose. I believe these claims are unfounded. In fact, I
believe there are more problems priming with DME. Have you considered
that you must boil the DME to insure that it is not contaminated before
using it, and by boiling the DME, you generate trub that you are now
adding to your beer unless you go to some extraordinary measures to
remove it.
There is nothing wrong with using corn sugar as a priming agent.
On another note, a hefeweizen typically contains 3.3-4.5 volumes of
CO2, not the 2.2-2.7 volumes found in an American Pale Ale or 1.5-2
volumes in an English bitter. That will require 46-63 g dextrose per
gallon to be added to a flat hefeweizen. The warning to never prime
with more than a cup of sugar per 5 gallons is another piece of
misinformation in my opinion. I don't see the commercial hefeweizens
exploding and I'll guarantee you that they have more CO2 in them than
can be generated by a cup of sugar in 5 gallons. It probably is a good
idea to use a good bottle for hefeweizens, although I've even used Bass
ale bottles (very thin) and not had any problems.
Incidentally, I always add ingredients by weight, not by volume. I just
determined that a cup of dextrose (corn sugar) weighs approximately 130
grams whereas a cup of cane sugar from the grocery store weighs
approximately 200 grams. It probably depends largely on how hard one
packs in the dextrose. Adding these two sugars by volume would generate
a huge difference in carbonation in the final product.
Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:05:48 -0700
From: hbd.to.theq at xoxy.net
Subject: More cider questions
Dave Burley wrote:
> As far a stopping a fermentation with sulfite reliably, don't do it, as it
> will take so much you will taste the sulfite. You can chill the cider and
> stop the fermentation, clarify it and rack it to give you some natural
> sweetness, but if you choose to bottle it or add fermentable sweetener and
> bottle it, use about 30-50 ppm of sulfite and potassium sorbate per mfg
> directions to prevent refermentation. If you do this, you must artificially
> carbonate it if you do want a carbonated cider.
==========
I'm afraid I need some clarification.. :-)
If one were to force carbonate 5 gallons of cider and keg, rather than
bottle it, AND use fermentable sweeteners, would keeping it cold in the
fridge stop the fermentation enough, or would one still need to use sulfite?
If so, how much?
Also, what's a good starting point for how much sweetener to add (am
considering molasses)? Same question if you use non-fermentable sweeteners
such as Splenda, which doesn't bother me at all.
Thanks very much!
- Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:19:22 -0400
From: "Sean McCabe" <greenfieldmills at hotmail.com>
Subject: beer in Providence, RI
I am off to Providence for work and wonder what is worth visiting up there
as far as brewpubs or local micros.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Sean
"'Cause, remember, no matter where you go..... there you are."
Buckaroo Banzai
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:16:28 -0400
From: "Bill Pierce" <BillPierce at aol.com>
Subject: RE: Formula for estimating O.G. with refractometer & hydrometer
(Caution: this is geeky and involves math.)
In HBD #4607 (Sept. 20, 2004), I posted the following:
***********
<paste>
I'm doing a little experimenting with a refractometer and a hydrometer and
some commercial beers. In the January/February 2001 Zymurgy Louis Bonham
provides a formula for calculating the specific gravity of a beer when the
O.G. is known and a refractometer measurement is taken:
SG = 1.001843 - (0.002318474*OG) - (0.000007775*OG^2) - (0.000000034* OG^3)
+ (0.00574*R) + (0.00003344*R^2) + (0.000000086*R^3)
SG is expressed as specific gravity, OG in degrees Plato and R in Brix.
He also provides a simplified version of the above formula: SG = (1.53*R)
- (0.59*OG)
In this equation both SG and OG are in degrees Plato.
This implies that it's also possible to estimate the O.G. of a beer when you
have both a refractometer reading and a hydrometer reading. Using the
simplified version of the formula and solving for O.G., the formula is :
OG = (2.593*R) - (1.695*SG)
However, the results using the simplified version don't seem to be quite as
accurate.
I'm wondering if any of you beer math geeks have the more complex formula
above solved for O.G., or software that can solve it.
<end paste>
**************
I received a couple of direct replies, as well as comments that this is
already accomplished in ProMash. Someone also sent me an Excel spreadsheet
with some complex Visual Basic macros that emulate the curve fitting
features of MathCAD. I confess I never did get the spreadsheet to function
correctly; the results were always garbage for me.
What I found interesting was that no one attempted to solve the complex
cubic equation for OG, not even my sister-in-law who has a Ph.D. in math and
teaches it at the university level.
However, I persevered and continued my musings undaunted. I found that much
of the information for Louis Bonham's Zymurgy article comes from his post in
HBD #2923: http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/2923.html#2923-13
In this post he provides formulas for alcohol by weight and real extract
based on refractometer and hydrometer readings:
ABW = 1017.5596 - (277.4*SG) + (RI*((937.8135*RI) - 1805.1228))
RE = 194.5935 + (129.8*SG) + (RI*((410.8815*RI) - 790.8732))
It should be noted that the formula for ABW in Bonham's original post (which
is repeated verbatim elsewhere) is in error. It is correct as stated above.
The rightmost operator should be a minus sign (for subtraction) rather than
a plus sign. This error was the cause of some frustration until I
discovered it.
As Bonham mentioned, the refractometer value in the formulas is in RI
(refractive index) units rather than the more common Brix readings of most
brewing refractometers. At the time of the post he had only tables for
converting Brix to RI, but a formula has since been provided (by Domenick
Venezia and others):
RI = 1.33302 + (0.001427193*Brix) + (0.000005791157*Brix^2)
The final formula of interest is for O.G. when the real extract and alcohol
by weight are known (this is from DeClerck):
OG (degrees Plato) = (100*(RE + (2.0665*ABW))) / (100 + (1.0665*ABW))
Combining these formulas, it's possible to solve for the estimated O.G. when
the refractometer and hydrometer readings of a beer are known. The formula
is:
OG = (100*((194.5935 + (129.8*SG) + ((1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) +
(0.000005791157*R^2))*((410.8815*(1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) +
(0.000005791157*R^2))) - 790.8732))) + (2.0665*(1017.5596 - (277.4*SG) +
((1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*R^2))*((937.8135*(1.33302 +
(0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*R^2))) - 1805.1228)))))) / (100 +
(1.0665*(1017.5596 - (277.4*SG) + ((1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) +
(0.000005791157*R^2))*((937.8135*(1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) +
(0.000005791157*R^2))) - 1805.1228)))))
OG is in degrees Plato, SG is the hydrometer reading in specific gravity and
R is the refractometer reading in Brix.
Obviously this formula is very complex and practical only when using a
computer. A third order fit of the cubic equation at the beginning of this
post solved for O.G. would be considerably easier to use. However, the
results of the formula seem quite accurate. When I compare them to the
refractometer utilities in ProMash, they agree to three significant digits;
I ascribe any differences to rounding errors in the various conversions.
No doubt this is of interest only to hardcore beer math geeks, and even they
are probably satisfied using ProMash for the task. But inquiring minds
occasionally want to know the source of the numbers.
Brew on!
- -- Bill Pierce
Cellar Door Homebrewery
Burlington, Ontario
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:51:44 -0700
From: "Rowan Williams" <rowan at canberrabrewers.org>
Subject: Re: German Pilsner Yeast
Dave Burley helpfully advised:
>I'd use Wyeast 2112, a California Steam Beer yeast traditionally
>fermented at room temperature up to 65F or Wyeast 2565 a Kolsch
>yeast which gives a lager like character to pilsner worts at a
>higher temperature ( 56 -70F).
>Of the two, I 'd start with the Kolsch yeast as California Steam
>Beer is traditionally used with a wort which contains some crystal
>malt, but it does work fine with a plain lager wort, just a little
>more fruity than the Kolsch,
>IMHO
Thanks for that Dave,
I was hoping that there would be some Wyeast strains that would be
a bit more tolerant of high temp lager fermentation. Mind you, 18C
(64F) is not all that high - I've brewed kit lagers before using a
heat pad at 22C and they turned out drinkable, especially when I
bulk lagered the wort in the fridge at 10C for a month. The heater
pad is now put away, used only to assist in brewing some pale ales
during the cold winter months here in Canberra.
I read on the Wyeast site that their 2565 strain would benefit from
filtration to clarify the resultant brew. Perhaps it would be just
as easy to rack the batch into a secondary fermenter and cold
condition in the fridge for at least a month - and thereby allow the
yeast to drop out and clarify the beer? Er, that's if I can keep my
hands off the brew for that long :-)!
The ideal strain appears to be 2278 Czech Pils Yeast and it has a
range up to 14C / 58F with desirable flocculation levels and finish.
Is there really going to be a huge difference in the end result if
it does get fermented at 18C/64F? I suppose the best way to find out
is to experiment with two identical brews using each of the two
strains and compare the end product.
Just a thought...
Cheers,
Rowan Williams
Canberra Brewers Club
[9588.6, 261.5] AR (statute miles)
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #4619, 10/04/04
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