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HOMEBREW Digest #4527
HOMEBREW Digest #4527 Sun 25 April 2004
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
One-Step ("Nathan T. Hoskins")
Fwd: Beer For Dinner Parties (Alexandre Enkerli)
Re: false bottom buckling due to expansion (Richard Seyler)
Re: Barley in beer (Jeff Renner)
Re: Beer and Dinner Parties (Jeff Renner)
calories in alcohol (mike4nospam)
Re: Barley in beer ("Dave Burley")
Beer at dinner parties ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
low alcohol beer... ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
beer or wine? ("Jeff & Ellen")
AHA 1st Round (Second) Call for Judges & Stewards (Joe Preiser)
link of the week - beer bottle collection (Bob Devine)
beer and recovering ("Graham L Sanders")
Re: Fix and the 40C Rest ("-S")
Re: Barley in beer (Jeff Renner)
AHA Southern Regional results are NOT available... (Bev Blackwood II)
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:04:23 -0400
From: "Nathan T. Hoskins" <nathanhoskins at adelphia.net>
Subject: One-Step
I was wondering what the general opinion was about using "One-Step" as a
sanitizer? Should I be using it? Is it the best out there? What about
when I'm sanitizing my Oxygen absorbing bottle caps?
Nathan T. Hoskins
Brewing in Kentucky
nathanhoskins at adelphia.net
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:56:38 -0300
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Fwd: Beer For Dinner Parties
Matt Simpson sent this reply privately as he can't post to the digest
directly:
> As to your question, you could certainly bring beer for dinner party
> consumption. My only caveat would be to make sure that the hosts
> and/or attendees actually enjoy beer (it is a group function, after
> all).
>
> As for style, I would tend to stick to something that not only has
> larger, sharable bottles, but also wouldn't be too much of a departure
> from what they're used to. A wonderful step up from "normal" beers are
> Belgian Abbey Ales or Saisons. They're not only pleasant to look at
> and carry similar style to a wine bottle, their tastes are fresh, mild
> and fruity. And they also pair well with a multitude of food. Some
> suggestions are Qwak, Chimay, Ommegang or Hennepin, Corsendonk or
> Duvel.
>
> And especially if cheese is being served, is beer a much better choice
> than wine. Beer has none of the acidity problems that wine does in
> overpowering cheese's subtle flavors. The carbonation also tends to
> lift the cheese flavors off the palate, enabling a full flavor and
> mouth-feel.
>
> And as for homebrew, I'd say screw the law and bring whatever you
> like. As long as it's in a nice, presentable bottle (1L flip top or
> champagne bottle, perhaps?) and is a style that everyone can enjoy,
> brew away and feel free to dine! Hope this helps.
>
> Matt Simpson
> Managing Editor
> The Beer Cellar
> www.thebeercellar.com
> media at thebeercellar.com
>
> P.S. Feel free to run this in HBD if you like. I can't!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:57:28 -0400
From: Richard Seyler <tad at vt.edu>
Subject: Re: false bottom buckling due to expansion
In HBD on Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Rob Dewhirst talks about his solution for
false bottom buckling:
>
>Get a piece of 2" or 1.5" copper pipe the same length as the distance from
>the center of the bottom of the mash tun to the bottom of the false bottom
>(if that makes sense).
>
>Drill a bunch of holes in it.
>
>Place in center of tun bottom before putting in hinge screen.
>
>You can park a car on it.
>
If I am understanding this correctly, you are suggesting something analogous
to the "Mashring" described on http://www.arches.uga.edu/~seyler/brewsys.html
(sixth picture down on page). The differences are that I am using a Phil's
Phalse bottom in a Gott system, and the diameter and length of the ring are
smaller. This has worked phlawlessly for me.
- --Tad
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:40:02 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Barley in beer
Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us> asked about using unmalted
barley, and Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at charter.net> suggested a boiling
feed barley.
This may not be necessary. Barley starch gelatinizes across a range
of temperature that is generally in the mash range, 54.5-68.3C
(130-155F) according to a post by Marc Sedam
http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4009.html#4009-7 a while back. This means
that you can use raw barley in the mash, though theoretically it
might be a little iffy. It might give a little better yield than raw
barley.
I have used coarsely ground grocery store pearl barley in a dry Irish
stout and it gave good results - complete conversion. This is not
surprising since German brewers use "chit malt," essentially
unmodified barley, in some of their beers. They would happily use
cheaper, unmalted barley but for the Reinheitsgebot.
AABG members Jeff and Susan Rankert lived in Germany for some time
(Jeff's a GM engineer), and their favorite Pils is the very dry
Jever. I suggested to them that they try a percentage of flaked
barley in their clone attempts, which they did, with good results.
Flaked barley is pre-gelatinized by the steaming and flaking process,
and is easy to get and use. Its use would avoid any concerns about
remaining unconverted starch making it into the beer, though, as I
said, this doesn't seem to be a practical concern.
Cheers
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:18:27 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Beer and Dinner Parties
Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu> writes from Moncton, NB:
>Among French-speakers at least, it's common practice to bring a
>bottle of wine (or two) when you go to someone's place.
That's pretty standard around here as well, and we don't even talk French.;-)
>Do some of you bring beer to dinner parties? If so, what types of beer
>do you bring? Do you try to pair styles with food? Is the beer usually
>well-received?
If I don't know the people, I'll most often bring wine, but I have
been known to bring a three gallon Corney of bitter and a clamp-on
beer engine, but only to knowledgeable and appreciative friends.
Otherwise I might bring a half-full Corney with enough pressure to
dispense the beer, but most often two liter soda bottles filled from
the tap. Usually I bring whatever normal strength beer I have -
typically an English bitter or a CAP.
However, what I really like to bring lately is corked 750 ml bottles
of Belgian, Dutch and French stronger ales - Abbey, Trappist, Biere
de Garde, etc. I have long appreciated these with food, but was
inspired to be more deliberate in using them at the table by Garrett
Oliver, the brewmaster at the Brooklyn Brewery and author of the new
book _The Brewmaster's Table_, a book about beer and food.
Garrett is a fine speaker who spoke at the NHC last June in Chicago.
He makes a persuasive case that there is a greater range of beer
styles than wine, and this makes for a greater range of matches with
food. He especially like the styles I mention above.
As I am sure you know, there are some Quebec-produced ales of this
type that you could bring to parties and educate the masses while
being a patriotic Quebecois as well.
Check it out on Amazon and read the reviews. It's a book you'll
probably want in your library if you like beer and food. Then buy it
from your local bookstore if you can. Support owner-run, local
businesses!
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:19:46 -0500
From: mike4nospam at centurytel.net
Subject: calories in alcohol
Recent posts that mention calories in alcohol have me
thinking again about something I've wondered about in the
past - how the body deals with alcohol.
My poor understanding is that some alcohol is metabolized
and some is driven off through the lungs. I would think
that the amount exhaled would not contribute
calories
(and my even be negative.
So, do the 'calories in alcohol' assume 100% metabolization
or some fractional amount. Or is the fraction exhaled
too small to count, or is my 'poor understanding' actually
complete ignorance?
Mike
Gig harbor WA
(Rennerian: go west until you hit salt water then back up a few steps)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:19:31 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Re: Barley in beer
Jeff,
Thanks for your comments, but the major reason I use the cook and blend method
I developed for raw barley is that unlike barley malt, barley seed is not
easily milled with conventional homebrew mills. I developed it decades ago
when things like processed flaked barley was not available to the homebrewer.
I've seen no reason to change and my response was to a question on how I do
it.
Pearl barley has, of course, been processed by the removal of most of the
parts of barley except the starch, I believe. Not really what I had in mind
when I use raw barley, as a lot of the interesting mouthfeel proteins and gums
are near the husks and in the germ.
I've never used it, or even seen it, but flaked barley, if it still maintains
all the seed parts is quite likely a good alternative without the ( minimal)
work I put into using barley.
Keep on Brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:31:13 -0700
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com>
Subject: Beer at dinner parties
Ale-X on the other end of Canada asks...
<snip> Do some of you bring beer to dinner parties? <end>
Of Course!
<snip> If so, what types of beer do you bring? <end>
I usually bring one or two 650ml glass bottles of each of several, enough
for all who are interested to share. I try to cover the bases from a
lawnmower lager, a full flavoured pilsner, a *somewhat* challenging bitter
pale ale or IPA or a stout. I generally stay away from bringing a
barleywine, double imperial IPA, Belgians or anything that is sure to turn
off a neophyte unless I know there are some beer geeks present.
<snip> Do you try to pair styles with food? <end>
There is usually one (or more) that does not get consumed, but it's just
kind of decide on the fly for me. I have Michael Jackson's book Ultimate
Beer, which I find has some good pairing suggestions.
<snip>Is the beer usually well-received?
I have found it very well received when presented as an open invitation with
no pressure, when some tasting guidance is given and people are told what
strong (or objectionable to a new palate) flavours they might experience and
are free to express what they like and dislike, and especially (for me) when
the beers are either bottled clear from the keg just prior or are *very*
carefully transported to ensure they are clear and not yeasty.
Steve Dale-Johnson
Royal Canadian Malted Patrol - we always get our beer!
Brewing at 1918 miles, 298 degrees Rennerian
Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:38:49 -0700
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com>
Subject: low alcohol beer...
The credit that Kirk Harralson in Bel Air was grasping for is a recipe by
Pierre Rajotte entitled "Driver's Choice" from the Classic Beer Styles book
Belgian Ales.
My experience with a similar version of this beer, brewed from extract for
my father in law a couple years back is here....
http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?view=2337
Not bad for an extract brew yielding less than 2% ABV
Steve Dale-Johnson
Royal Canadian Malted Patrol - we always get our beer!
Brewing at 1918 miles, 298 degrees Rennerian
Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:36:53 -0400
From: "Jeff & Ellen" <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: beer or wine?
Alexandre from New Brunswick asked whether it would be improper to bring
beer instead of wine to a casual dinner party. I say that's precisely the
reason you should bring beer instead of wine to a casual dinner party. To
make it less improper. To equalize the snobbery between wine and beer
geeks. They're way ahead of us there.
Beer is every bit as elegant as wine if not more so. It's our job to
convince our friends of this.
When I bring homebrew to a casual dinner party it's usually the hit of the
party; much more interesting and well-received than some store-bought bottle
of wine.
Then you have the opportunity to let your friends try the beer with certain
foods, to convince them that beer really does go better with cheese and with
chocolate than wine. You can't lose.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa, FL
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:02:19 -0500
From: Joe Preiser <jpreiser at jpreiser.com>
Subject: AHA 1st Round (Second) Call for Judges & Stewards
This is a followup request for judges & stewards. Please use either the
online form identified below or contact me directly if you can help out.
- -------------------
Great Lakes - NHC 1st Round Call for Judges & Stewards
Judging for the Great Lakes region (MI, IL, WI, IN) of the NHC 1st
Round will be held at Goose Island-Wrigleyville (3535 N. Clark,
Chicago). Please note that this is a change in venue from previous
years. Judging sessions are scheduled for Saturday and Sunday, May
1-2.
Both judges (primarily BJCP, but others will be considered) and
stewards (experienced or not) are needed.
Sessions will begin promptly at 9:00AM on Saturday and 10:00AM on
Sunday. Stewards should arrive between 8:00AM and 8:15AM to help get
things set up. Judges should plan to arrive 30 minutes early for
sign-in, bagels, juice, coffee, and judging assignments.
If enough judges sign up for Saturday's sessions and we get everything
judged we won't schedule a Sunday session; however, this means we need
every able-bodied palate we can get. In other words, yes, we can use
you.
Interested judges and stewards can register online at
http://www.chibeer.org/NHC/ or can contact Judging Coordinator, Joe
Preiser (joe at chibeer.org, daytime phone 630-285-7688).
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:09:57 -0600
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: link of the week - beer bottle collection
Fun site this week. Many homebrewers are collectors of
beer-related items. This website has 2246 bottles for viewing.
http://tolsun.oulu.fi/kbs/beer/kbsbeer.htm
Bob Devine
"behind the Zion curtain"
Riverton, UT
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:31:22 +1000
From: "Graham L Sanders" <craftbrewer at bigpond.com>
Subject: beer and recovering
G'day All
The recovery goes well. To all the smart "ones" out there who recon there
are easier ways to catch a bus, like standing on the side of the road and
actually waving at them, I do agree that is a unique concept for us
NQlders. And dont fret those who thought I wasn't drinking while laid
up ------ please people, this is a true blue Oz character we are talking
about here.
Actually it was interesting the rules on grog in hospital. Over here in
private hospitals they actually will give you a drink with your dinner,
provided it doesn't turn your toes up with your other medication. The
Government hospitals ban it our-right, thou strangely they allow alcoholics
to have a can on demand to avoid the onset of the dreaded DT's which could
disturb the other patients. But I had the nurses fooled, which aint too hard
these days. They may be university trained, but they certainly have no
common sense or real life experience. (The old days of hospital trained
nurses certainly had a tight rein on things). Anyway, dont know how many I
told "its carbonated apple juice", and they accepted this. Real bright
sparks.
Now I can tell you that there are advantages and dangers having a few beers
while recovering. A few beers with morphine certainly sends you to lar-lar
land real quick. Numbs the pain before the first glass is gone. But - Have a
few, numb yourself real good, and go to bed has its danger. You can wake up
in a hurry when you suddenly roll over in your unconscious state, onto the
broken ribs, and no amount of alcohol stops you suddenly coming back to life
with an almighty "shit that hurts". Or something like that.
Now Phil couldn't resist. Now normally one would not comment,
as even his own state is pushing him further and further west to get rid of
him. If he moves any further west, he will be in a boat in the Indian Ocean.
(about the right place for a cockroach). anyway he suggest>>>>>>>Further
about this "Bloody Bastard Bus Vienna", what about a little competition to
find a better name?....I'm thinking "Tropical Vampire Wit-Sunday"<<<<<
Now Phil, this name is no good. The Famed Tropical Flower Wit just dominated
the Summer Beer Festival in South Africa. Its world conquest continues.
There is no way I would name another beer with a similar name. All because
your insipid rice lager has faded into nothing like the taste of the beer, I
can understand why your are jealous, but you wont undermine it that way.
Now I have been following the theme of different mash temperature regimes,
and decoction mashing with interest and you all need to take a whole-listic
view on the subject. Now my view on the matter will contradict and also
agree with others.
>>>>>>>The one method which has a clear claim to a flavor impact is
decoction. Decoction does create certain Maillard and caramel flavor
products, but it's very inefficient at this. Many HBers have some fantasy
image of immense malty flavors emanating from a decoction, but the reality
is that decoction imparts only a subtle flavor difference.<<<<<
Decoction works!!!!!!!!!! You see the results time and time again with blind
taste tests. Its quite right the difference is subtle, but its there. Have a
decocted beer on its own, and you wont pick its a decocted beer, though
generally you will note its a better beer than average. But have one side by
side to an identical non-decocted beer, and people will easily favour the
decocted beer. Yes then people will say its easy to copy by adding
melonoidan malts, but I dont think it gives the same subtleness than a
decoction gives.
On the need of a protein rest. >>>>>>but the specs in recent years show
little difference besides the slightly greater Lovibond of the PA
malt.<<<<<< This and sayings like "fully modified
malt dont need a protein rest doesn't cut it with me." Nor does things like
" British have fully modified malts and they dont need it, and modern malts
are like these" also doesn't wash. Now I still too sore to attack the books,
(so correct if you like - its the principle here to look at) but at least
in the wide brown land, our fully modified Pilsner and lager malts have
nitrogen contents around 10% plus, while traditional single step British
infusion malts are well below this. Or lets just say a lot lower when you
look at the nitrogen distribution and breakdown. Yet both are "fully
modified".
Our lager malts have what I call a borderline nitrogen content. They can and
are
simply drop infused, but will also benefit in my mind to a short protein
rest. To me the short rest certainly seems to benefit head retention, mouth
feel, and especially yeast performance. Quite a number of brewers do rests
for these malts for 5-10 minutes. I am still very much a fan of decoction
mashing, running a mixing at about 30C (temp of tropical tap water), 1st
decoct to 55C, 2nd decoct to desired scarification temp, and then sparge.
To all those poor brewers out there, the point is simple. There is no
correct way of doing this, but there are certainly wrong ways.
Dont fret, you will read all sorts ways and
schedules to brew. They will all produce great beers. Just pick one that
takes your fancy, and think about mastering it, and dont be scared to
experiment.
Shout
Graham Sanders
oh
I have had SWMBO all over me like a rash looking after me. Very scary
experience. Here was I thinking she really cared about me. But I have
noticed
she sits at the other end of the bed, and the only head she was looking at
wasn't the one with hair. Shes asking "that question as well" - when will
you be our bed again????????
I thought I was almost in heaven a month ago, now I find myself facing
hell!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:33:53 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Fix and the 40C Rest
JoeF writes,
>I don't have AoBT, but from your figures above, I think you do
>have a mistake in your math.
I don't think so, tho you made a minor error in your calc Joe. You
are right to bring this up again as it is a confusing issue.
>Using 0.275 for the specific heat
>of malted grain,
It's a minor factor, but that number is far off.. The specific heat
of 0 to 3% moisture malt is 0.38 to 0.39 not nearly 0.275.
M&BS pp 324 has a table. 0.4 is good enough for any brewing
calc.
> I calculate the initial mass of water for that
>20kg of malt to be 42.5kg. In English units, this means an initial
>ratio of 1.02 qt/lb, with an addition of 0.38 qt/lb (that's quarts of
>water at maximum density, of course).
So what temperature 'T' do we get when we mix 42.5kg water
and 20kg malt at 40C, then add [0.38qt/lb = 0.79L/kg] rounding
in Joe's favor, 16L of boiling water ?
The system heat remains constant so:
100C*16kg + 40C*42.5kg + 40C*(Cs*20kg) = T*(16kg+42.5kg+(Cs*20kg))
or solving for the mix temp is:
T = [100*16 + 40*(42.5 + Cs*20)] / [58.5+Cs*20]
Using Joes' assumption of Cs=0.275 then
T = 55 celcius, which does not reach the 60C rest.
Using a more realistic 0.39 for the malt specific heat the mix temp
is; T = 54.5 C The goal as a 60C mix temp but Joes mash-in water
mass is far too great to acheive this with a 16L boiling infusion.
All HBs should realize that the heat capacity of the mash vessel
must be accounted for and that the boiling infusion isn't quite at
100C by the time it hits the tun (Kunze suggests 90C which is I
think too low for HB practice). IOW this idealized estimate of
the infusion is always too low.
==========
Calculating a 40C to 60C infusion boost is pretty simple algebra problem in
the idealized case.
There is a mash-in consisting of 20kg of malt, Cs = 0.39 and an unknown
amount of mash-in water Wm, at a temperature of 40C. Then add a boiling
water infusion (100C, amount of water Wi) so that the final mix temp is 60C.
The heat eqn is:
100*Wi + 40*(Wm + 0.39*20) = 60 * ((Wm+Wi) + 0.39*20)
The *PROBLEM* with AoBT is this, - Fix states (pp27) that he uses only 16L
of boiling infusion water (Wi = 16) ! Plugging that into the eqn above
gives:
Wm = 24.2L, Wi = 16L.
If Fix *really* raised his 20kg grist mash from 40C to 60C with only a 16L
boiling infusion as he clearly states, then the mash thicknesses were
1.21L/kg at mash-in & 1.96L/kg after infusion. In US HB units that's
0.58qt/lb at mash-in and 0.939qt/lb after infusion. That's WAY TOO THICK.
And also it doesn't match any of his other examples which terminate with
1.58qt/lb thickness approximately.
There is some sort of typo or omission in Fix's description of his 40-60-70C
schedule
==========
It is not difficult to design a boiling infusion for reasonable mash
thickness, but it requires more boiling water than Fix uses.
100*Wi + 40*(Wm + 0.39*20) = 60 * ((Wm+Wi) + 0.39*20)
Wi + Wm = 66L (same as Fix's other examples)
gives, Wm=41.4, Wi = 24.6
A good 40C mash-in at a thickness of 2.07L/kg and a boiling infusion of
1.23L/kg does the boost. US HB thicknesses are 0.99qt/lb at 40C, and
1.58qt/lb at 60C. All quite reasonable, but Fix was missing 8.6 liters of
his boiling infusion !!!
-S
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:18:29 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Barley in beer
At 2:19 PM -0400 4/23/04, Dave Burley wrote in part:
>I've never used it, or even seen it, but flaked barley, if it still maintains
>all the seed parts is quite likely a good alternative without the ( minimal)
>work I put into using barley.
I think that flaked barley is whole grain, less the husk, much the
same as flaked oats/rolled oats are whole grain. As the husk in
pretty much inert cellulose, I think its use should be equivalent of
using whole barley.
It is easily available from homebrew shops, as well as from health
food stores and food co-ops. It's a standard ingredient in dry Irish
stout.
Cheers
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:42:08 -0500
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: AHA Southern Regional results are NOT available...
Due to an unusually large number of entries (over 500) the AHA Southern
Regional is not yet complete. Therefore, no results are available. I
will be working to get the competition completed as soon as possible,
but until that time please be patient.
Thanks!
-BDB2
Houston Liaison
American Homebrewers Association
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/index.html
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4527, 04/25/04
*************************************
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