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HOMEBREW Digest #4524
HOMEBREW Digest #4524 Tue 20 April 2004
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Are There Any Diabetic Homebrewers Out There? ("Steven P. Bellner")
Re: Low alcohol brewing ("Fredrik")
RE: Convoluted Counter Flow Chillers (kerry.drake)
Convoluted copper chiller to pump (Fred Johnson)
Geo. Washington Recipe (Lee Ellman)
Re: Mash Thickness (Jeff Renner)
Re: Recipe Translation (Jeff Renner)
Historic beer (Jeff Renner)
posting format suggestion (Jeff Renner)
Wit Problem ("Sweeney, David")
thank you ("Jeff & Ellen")
15th Annual Sunshine Challenge ("Urban, Michael J, WCS")
Convoluted copper chiller connections (Fred Johnson)
cooked raw barley beers (Randy Ricchi)
South Shore Brewoff - updated info for judges and stewards (McNally Geoffrey A NPRI)
cf chillers (Randy Ricchi)
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:49:02 -0400
From: "Steven P. Bellner" <sbellner at chartertn.net>
Subject: Are There Any Diabetic Homebrewers Out There?
Well, I got a little bit of bad news last week, when the Dr. told me I had
type II diabetes. It's not too bad yet, but if left unchecked, I could
expect it to worsen. Immediately I thought this would be the end of my
homebrewing endeavor, which for what it's worth, is my absolute favorite
pastime outside of spending quality time with my family. Homebrewing has
become part of what I am, and what I most like to do.
The Doc said I need to lose about 30 pounds, and keep it off. He wants me
on the lean side of thin. I then asked him the question I was most
dreading, "What about beer?"
"Well, it's a carb, and you'll have to treat it as such. As part of an
overall dietary plan, in moderation it should be OK.", he replied.
Pretty much music to my ears. So for the next couple of weeks, I will be
reducing my carbs and fat drastically, and working on a new "structured"
diet.
Are there any other diabetic hombrewers out there, and if so, how do you
manage your disease while still fully enjoying this wonderful hobby?
I've read that alcholol reduces blood glucose levels. Cinnamon is being
researched as a possible adjunct cure for diabetes. It sounds like my next
brew will have to be a cinnamon big beer. That may be cure for diabetes!
Steven P. Bellner
sbellner a t chartertn.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:59:20 +0200
From: "Fredrik" <carlsbergerensis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Low alcohol brewing
> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:05:00 +1000
> From: Chris.Pittock at dpi.vic.gov.au
> Subject: Low alcohol brewing...
>
> Hi All,
>
> No, I haven't gone 'soft'! BUT I am trying to help out a guy who has
> beaten cancer. His quality of life would be higher if he could enjoy beer
> without high alcohol content. The drugs he's on give his liver/kidneys a
> good workout, but he enjoys his beer. Problem is alcohol could tip the
> balance on the health of his organs...
>
> SO! I was wondering about minimal pale malt, mashed with darker malts
> (light crystal or lighter...). I have seen maltodextrin powder available
> for non-fermentable 'body' addition to kit brews, so some of this may
> relieve some of the mouthfeel issues with very light beers. Is dextrin
> malt the unprocessed version?
>
> Residual femrentables aren't much good, whether balanced with hops or
> not... [killing the guy with a glass grenade would be a savage irony]
So,
> I guess I'm looking to produce a bitter with some colour (but not very
> dark), some mouthfeel and less than 2% v/v ethanol. Or close to it...
>
> All ideas gratefully accepted, and summary willingly posted to the forum.
> (PS. Will be away from the office for a few days, so fast responses from
> me won't be likely!)
Hello Chris,
I have been thinking of doing a low alcohol beer too, mainly because
sometimes you may like a small glass of beer to dinner and they drive an
hour later, so ~2% seems ok if you have just a normal glass with food.
It may not make sense suggesting an actual receipe as I don't know what kind
of beer your friend likes. But FWIW, I've considered making a low alcohol
version of a beer I made recently. I like to start out by considering what
sweetness I aim at. For nottinghamn(assuming 93% maltotriose depletion) and
the normal gravity beers I've brewed so far a residual extract of 4.6P gives
46% sweetness as compared to 1% sucrose solution as per the rough estimates
I use. Note, the correlation between 4.6P and 46% is a conincidence. This
doesn't hold for low attenuative strains were you get lots of residual
maltotriose, as I'm assuming maltotriose to be alot sweeter than the average
typical dextrins. For example a windsor wheat beer I made recently ended up
with 4.6P and 70% relative sweetness according to the math. That beer is
indeed sweet. Actually too sweet, ever though I personally like weissbeers
sweeter, 70% as compared to 46% is major. Which was also confirmed by my
tastings.
But suppose I want 4.3P for a low alcohol beer, then in a 2vol% brew I could
use a 1.029/43% wort. It would reach 1.014 at 93% maltotriose depletion.
Then I think the easisest thing would to modulate your grain bill with
maltodextrin to hit the target of 43% fermentability? The maltodextrin
powder I buy is 10% fermentable, the remaining 90% is left unfermented.
Then you can add the hops you want. I used this technique on a few beers so
far and it seems to work quite well. The first time I tried this receipe
calculator I was surprised how close to my imagined "mind target" the beer
was. Maybe I was lucky. I will keep testing this technique.
I've got a very crude excel sheet so far I use for this, if you want some
formulas let me know. The sweetness formula is just adding the residual
dextrin and residual maltotriose at their relative sweetness ratings. It's
just what I use until I get something better. It may even be incorrect but
so far it has made rough sense to me.
Disclaimer: I haven't got a chance to try this low alcohol brew yet though,
just played with the numbers.
/Fredrik
>
> Thanks in advance, Chris.
> (Err... approx 12,000 miles Universal Rennarian... OK so I made that up!
> It's Australia)
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 6:49:46 -0400
From: kerry.drake at cox.net
Subject: RE: Convoluted Counter Flow Chillers
onzo asks how others have connected their CCFCs,
>For those who have purchased the newer convoluted
chillers like from St. Pats or Morebeer, how have you
connected them to a pump system?
>They appear to come with 1/2" OD copper tubing for the
wort in/out. The 1/2" id tubing I have is too big to
make a tight fit. Have people attempted soldering?
What a bout compression fittings?
I have the one from St Pats; I've been using it for about 3
years now. Although I let gravity pull the wort through
it, I did put fittings on it. I don't remember the size,
but I used compression fittings. I had to tighten the heck
out of them, but finally did get them to seal. So far,
it's worked well for me; both with the cold tap water in
Alaska and the not so cold tap water of northern Virginia.
Kerry
Springfield, VA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:44:15 -0400
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: Convoluted copper chiller to pump
Regarding Lonzo's question about the connection of the counter flow
chiller to the pump connection, I failed to mention that I use a
peristaltic pump downstream from the chiller so that I am pulling the
wort through the kettle and the chiller and pushing it into the
fermentor.
Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:05:11 -0400
From: Lee Ellman <lee.ellman at cityofyonkers.com>
Subject: Geo. Washington Recipe
Maybe my colonial English is not so good either,
but I missed there being any MALT in the recipe.
Was something really missing in the translation?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:43:06 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Mash Thickness
Bill Gornicki <gornicwm at earthlink.net> writes from up north of here:
>First, Don't shoot the messenger!!! The Horst Dornbusch book
>on Helles explains everything. That's where I got the
>beef for my "baloney". :-)
I am afraid that the Dornbusch Helles book is rife with serious
technical errors. When it came out I posted a critique of the water
chemistry section. See http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/3371.html#3371-18
and follow-up
http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/3373.html#3373-2
The author emailed me that chemistry was his weak subject but that he
relied on his technical friends in Germany to help him. I'm afraid
it didn't help. And evidently the editor at the time didn't run the
manuscript past US technical readers, who could have helped.
Errors of such magnitude call into doubt the authority of the entire
book in my opinion.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:43:22 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Recipe Translation
Bob Hall <rallenhall at henry-net.com> writes (in a personally
approved message) from Napoleon, OH:
>I'm interested in doing a semi-authentic brew for a historical observance
>later this year, and would like to try something along the order of George
>Washington's recipe, which I have seen in a number of sources:
I've always been suspicious of this recipe, quite aside from your
question about the amount of hops to use. Without malt it is not
going to produce a beer that is typical of even Washington's time but
rather a something else - a pseudo-beer that is much cheaper and
easier to make than a true beer.
I find even a pound of molasses in five gallons of beer unpleasantly
overpowering. I can't imagine how an all molasses beer would taste!
I sure wouldn't make 30 gallons! ;-)
You can do a little calculating regarding how strong such a beer will
be. Molasses has a SG of about 1.40 and is about 44% sugars
http://www.premiermolasses.ie/standard.htm, presumably mostly
fermentable.
I think you could make a more enjoyable beer with an all-malt porter
recipe of the time (lots of brown malt - "See Historic British beers
and How to Brew Them" by John Harrison/Durden Park Beer Circle), but
it's an interesting idea and I'd like to hear how it goes.
See next post.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:45:53 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Historic beer
Brewers
To follow up on my previous post on historic beer:
I suggest that brewers interested in historic brewing (and
distilling), as I am, check out HBDer Glenn Raudin's wonderful
reprints of historic books at http://www.raudins.com/BrewBooks/. The
upcoming sixth book to be republished is one that knowledgeable
American brewers of Washington's time would have been using. It
(actually the second edition) is the one that Jefferson bought in the
early 19th century, when he set up a brewhouse at Monticello with his
slave Peter Hemings as brewer. See fascinating report at
http://www.monticello.org/reports/life/beer.html
From Glenn's web site:
"The Theory and Practice of Brewing, 1762, by Michael Combrune
"The most pivotal book in brewing! In 1762, Michael Combrune changed
the brewing world forever. He published the Theory and Practice of
Brewing, a book which treated brewing as somewhat of a Science and
not just an Art. (He was the first author to advocate using the
thermometer in brewing.) In this book he lays down the theory of
brewing AND the practical application of his theories to the brewing
of the beers of the time. Referenced by most subsequent brewing
books, here is your chance to own the book that changed the brewing
industry."
Glenn's reprints are beautifully reset entirely in historic fonts on
heavy acid free paper and bound in bonded leather. I find myself
helpless when he brings out new titles. This new one is more
expensive than the ones in the past and I know that Glenn is
concerned he'll take a bath because of this, but he too is helpless.
If you like history, historic brewing and/or distilling, and
beautiful books, do yourself a favor and check these titles out.
Collect the whole set! I have.
I have no personal interest in these other than to see Glenn succeed
so he will continue to bring out more titles.
Cheers
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:10 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: posting format suggestion
Brewers
A former English teacher (as well as history and biology) speaks out:
Most of us suffer from MEGO symptom (my eyes glaze over) when
confronted with long paragraphs. A whole screen of unbroken type is
probably going to get the PgDn treatment unless it's really
fascinating. Like my golden prose. ;-)
My suggestion is to limit paragraphs to maybe ten lines - just hit
the return/enter key at logical breaks in thought.
Cheers
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:01:59 -0500
From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu>
Subject: Wit Problem
I recently brewed a fairly standard Bavarian Wheat beer; 45% malted
wheat,
55% Czech Pils WM, Plzn water, 1.044OG WYeast Bavarian Wheat pitchable
tube, 55F. At T+3 days, the SG was 1.027. At T+7 days the SG was 1.018.
Today is T+9 days. There is no apparent activity in the airlock and a
2-inch
layer of white yeasty foam on the top. I've started to drop the temp
slowly
-1 degree per day. There is no off odor, taste or color - it seems to be
coming
along nicely, although the gravity is still high.
Here's my question - I don't remember such a thick head of yeast on the
beer this late in the fermentation with my previous batches. I don't
have any
notes of it in the 2 batches of this recipe I have made before, and I
probably
would've noticed. Should I transfer to a secondary to get it off the
yeast, or
is there a danger of stopping the fermentation too high? Should I stir?
David Sweeney
Texas Aggie Brew Club
david at studentlife.tamu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:29:59 -0400
From: "Jeff & Ellen" <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: thank you
I just got back from a very enjoyable trip to Portland, Oregon and thought
I'd say, "thank you" to the hbd for providing such good info on places to go
for good beer and good food. I found two great pages of recommendations in
the archives and was able to visit most of the brewpubs described. I'd have
needed another week to fully explore the area. Special thanks for a post by
Mark Wilson from 9/18/03 that recommended Higgins restaurant downtown: Hair
of the Dog on tap with mussels cooked in Belgian ale. Mmmmm.
We stayed at McMenamin's Kennedy School bed and breakfast: four bars, a
theatre, a soaking pool and "primitive" art everywhere. 'Visited Horse
Brass Pub, Rose and Raindrop, Full Sail Pilsener Room (and the brewery in
Hood River), Portland Brewing Company (beautiful copper kettles), Bridgeport
Brewing (vine-covered ambience), the Rogue Public House, BJ's Pizza, plus
another brewpub in Hood River and two more on the coast. Five days, a dozen
great beer places, and we still had some tourist time to see all the gardens
in full spring bloom, do some hiking in the Columbia River Gorge and walk a
few miles on the Pacific beaches. (Actually SWMBO was in conferences for
three days, but I managed to struggle along.)
As Mark says, "It's and embarrassment of riches, really."
Jeff Gladish, back in Tampa, FL, wishing I could retire and just travel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:52:56 -0400
From: "Urban, Michael J, WCS" <mjurban at att.com>
Subject: 15th Annual Sunshine Challenge
Once a year in sunny central Florida the largest homebrew competition east of
the Mississippi takes place. The Sunshine Challenge, hosted by the Central
Florida Home Brewers, will this year host it's 15th annual event.
Check www.cfhb.org for registration and entry information.
This year's Challenge, as always, is much more than a homebrew competition.
It's a 3 day celebration. We have confirmed co-Guests of Honor Sam Calgione
from Dogfish Head Brewing Company - one of the fastest growing micros in the
country, and 2 time Best Florida Beer Champion Buzz Brown of Spanish Springs
Brewing Company.
Events kick off on Friday night with dinner hosted by the Florida Brewer's
Guild, an association of breweries, brew pubs, distributors, and other members
of the Florida brewing industry. The best commercial beers brewed in Florida
will be available for sampling, and entertainment will be provided by the
Shaun Rounds Blues Band.
On Saturday morning we open the day with our Beer Revival with appearances and
pontifications by our Guests of Honor and a breakfast beer. This year we feature
the Best of Show winning Hefeweizen recipe from last year's Sunshine Challenge.
After breakfast those not involved in judging are encouraged to join the famous
pub crawl. Sign up early, it always sells out. On Saturday night there will be
dinner and dancing to the music of CFHB's own Barley Wine Band.
Sunday morning you may sleep in, unless you're involved in BOS judging, which
starts at 9:30 AM. Enjoy pizza by the pool from 11:00 - 2:00, when the awards
ceremony gets underway. As a special feature, along with our normal raffle,
this year we have a special raffle of all 6 of the rare Sam Adams high gravity
vintages: 1994, '95, and '97 Triple Bocks, 2000 Millennium, 2002 Utopias Mmii
and the 2003 Utopias. All 6 bottles will be awarded as a single prize.
Raffle tickets are available via PayPal on the CFHB website (www.cfhb.org),
and you don't have to be present to win.
Except during the Friday FBG Reception and the Saturday dinner event, fine
beers will be flowing throughout the weekend from the infamous SC beer truck.
Sampling privileges are included with the purchase of any event ticket.
This year we are having the weekend event at a new location, just north of
downtown Orlando in Maitland at the Hotel Orlando North. The hotel is located
at the northeast corner of the intersection of I-4 and Maitland Blvd.,
exit #90 (old #47). They can be reached at (800) 628-6660 or
www.hotelorlandonorth.com for reservations. If you are making reservations
mention Sunshine Challenge to get the $59 rate.
See www.cfhb.org for more details and event tickets.
regards,
Mike Urban
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:03:16 -0400
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: Convoluted copper chiller connections
The email below was supposed to have been posted before the one above.
Lonzo asks how to connect to the half-inch copper tubing on a
convoluted copper counter flow chiller such as the one sold by St.
Pat's.
I have one of the St. Pat's convoluted copper chillers and I, too, have
had some difficulty adapting to the copper tubing diameter. I heated
the end of a piece of vinyl tubing that would otherwise be extremely
difficult to attach and stretched it over the copper tubing. After a
while the vinyl becomes accustomed to this stretch and it doesn't fit
as tightly as before, so a clamp is really required to ensure a tight
fit. Still, this isn't the best solution.
Silicone tubing should work much better as it will handle the high
temperature much better, but I simply haven't gotten around to
replacing the vinyl. And I'm too cheap to buy the Pharmed (R), Norprene
(R), or Viton (R) tubing, which are probably ideal for this high
temperature application.
Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA
Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:32:58 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: cooked raw barley beers
In Monday's HBD Dave Burley wrote:
"But as I said in my earlier comments, I fool all these attempts at
controlling my brewing by using Moravian malts and adding cooked raw barley
to emulate the old malts and thus I use the older low T hold methods of
brewing.
When I gave some of my German style lager to a German staying with us, he
said on his first taste "You MADE this? Tastes like the German beer I
remember."
This is very interesting to me.
Dave, what percentage of the total grist is made up of raw barley?
You mention the low T hold methods of brewing, but also refer to "cooked"
raw barley so I wonder if you treat it in the same manner as Jeff Renner
prescribes for his CAP cereal mash?
Let's say we were making a helles bier, with a total of 10# of grain for a
1.050 OG. Would you use something like 3# of raw barley and 1# of pils in a
mini-mash at 150F or so, then after 30 min or so, boil it like a decoction
and then add it to the other 6# of pils malt which you already would have
mashed in separately at a low temperature?
One other question (for now): is the yield from raw barley similar to pils
malt, and where do you get raw barley?
Looking forward to trying something new in Hancock, Michigan.
Randy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:33:38 -0400
From: McNally Geoffrey A NPRI <McNallyGA at Npt.NUWC.Navy.Mil>
Subject: South Shore Brewoff - updated info for judges and stewards
Hi All,
It has recently been brought to my attention that the mailing address
for the competition judge coordinator (Steve Rose) printed on the
judge and steward registration form is no longer valid.
If you are planning on judging or stewarding, please contact Steve ASAP
via the email address or phone number listed instead of mailing the form.
Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.
Geoffrey McNally
Competition Organizer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:53:54 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: cf chillers
I just ordered a chillus convolutus counterflow chiller, and I'm wondering
if there would be any problem with using TSP (tri-sodium phosphate) to
clean it after use. I use TSP on my carboys and that stuff rips through
organic crud like butter. I'm just not sure if it's safe to use on copper.
I've put off getting a CF chiller for years because I was worried about how
to properly clean the insides.
TIA
Randy Ricchi
Hancock, MI
ps:
It's great to see our Aussie friends posting again with their magnificent
sense of humor. When reading those posts I feel like I really should have
a beer in hand, then it would feel more like I'm having a session with Phil
and Graham and the boys, yukking it up and having a good time. Too bad I
usually read the HBD while at work. Maybe if I explain this to my boss, he
would understand if I brought a few homebrews to work with me? Hmmmm.......
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4524, 04/20/04
*************************************
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