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HOMEBREW Digest #4498
HOMEBREW Digest #4498 Sat 13 March 2004
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Digest Special Edition (Pat Babcock)
Sad News (Jeff Renner)
Best of Philly 2004 homebrew competition ("Joe Uknalis")
Thomas HArdy Ale Recipe ("H. Dowda")
Steve Ford ("Rob Moline")
Thomas Hardy - My site visit (Bev Blackwood II)
Re: more on hop tea (Jeff Renner)
Diacetyl Reduction/Elimination ("John McGowan")
Re: Cheap Conicals - just one more (Jeff Renner)
The Yeast that Ate Ann Arbor (Jeff Renner)
RE: Gas Regulator ("Alexander Pettit")
yeast dormant 2 years .. now working again ("Ryan and Shelly Furstenau")
Welding stainless (Thom Cannell)
er: mixed yeast strains ("-S")
Killer yeast/acetone ("-S")
Re: more on hop tea/hop extracts ("William Frazier")
Yeast Nutrient Added to Stout ("Dave and Joan King")
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JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Spencer Thomas (janitor@hbd.org)
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Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:18:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Digest Special Edition
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
As you may have notices, I have eliminated the delivery of the
HBD on weekends; this to ensure the queue has an "ambient
level" which facilitates our low-level moderation policy without
causing a flood of spam into the Digest.
At the request of friend Jeff Renner, I am forcing the
generation of the HBD today to ensure the timeliness of Jeff's
sad news contained herein.
The HBD mourns the loss of Steve Ford, a true friend to the
craft. May God rest his souls and bring comfort his friends and
family.
- --
-
God bless America!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor at hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
- Arlo Guthrie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:56:12 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Sad News
Brewers
I am saddened to report to you all that homebrewer Steve Ford, of
Overland Park, Kansas, passed away on Wednesday, March 10th, of a
blood clot. Steve was an active, loved and respected member of the
Kansas City Bier Meisters, the American Homebrewers Association and
the Beer Judge Certification Program, and was a regular poster to HBD.
Steve was one of only 36 BJCP Master Judges and was a candidate for
the AHA Board of advisors.
The AHA Board of Advisors' thoughts are with Steve's family, friends
and club members. Today, there is beer in heaven, and we imagine that
Steve has been welcomed there by Bill Pfeiffer and George Fix.
The K.C. Bier Meisters have a memorial page at
http://www.kcbiermeisters.org/SteveFord.htm
His Kansas City Star obituary is at (cut and paste)
http://www.legacy.com/kansascity/LegacySubPage2.asp?Page=
LifeStory&PersonId=2019732
Steve's candidate bio is at http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/election.html
Jeff Renner
AHA Board of Advisors
Please honor Steve's memory by voting in the AHA board election
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:53:22 -0500
From: "Joe Uknalis" <birman at netaxs.com>
Subject: Best of Philly 2004 homebrew competition
The Homebrewers of Philly & Suburbs (HOPS) will be holding our first LEGAL
competition
(we're 21 now!) on April 24, 2004 at the Nodding Head Brewery & Rest.
The BJCP sanctioned competition info can be found at:
http://www.hopsclub.org/archives/hops-bops_2004/index.html
Our mail in deadline (as well as dropoff) is 4/17/04 at the ship to address
is:
HomeSweet Homebrew
2008 Sansom St
Phila, PA 19103
215-569-9469 (Ask for Nancy or George)
Entry forms can be found at this location or Keystone Homebrew in
Montgomeryville
(also a dropoff point).
We are experimenting with just having a 'internet only' competition to
reduce dead trees.
No mailings will be going out. Please enter early & often!
Judges & stewards are encourgaged to contact Joe (birman at netaxs.com) to sign
up.
thanks
Joe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:55:42 -0800 (PST)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Thomas HArdy Ale Recipe
Protz gives the ingredients as 100% Pipkin
pale;Challenger and Northdown for bitterness;
Challenger and EKG for aroma. dry-hopped;50-70
bitterness units;og 1.125 12% ABV
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:24:16 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Steve Ford
Steve Ford
Raise your glass, ladies and gentlemen....one of our own has passed.
http://www.kcbiermeisters.org/SteveFord.htm
Gump
"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
- ---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:47:39 -0600
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: Thomas Hardy - My site visit
I posted my version of the recipe to the list back in February. (I
think) I really didn't set out to MAKE a T.H. clone, but after 4 years
of aging, it comes pretty damn close in a side by side tasting with an
older (1995, I seem to remember) Thomas Hardy. Does that mean mine
will be as good come 2009? Well, like the age old question of: "How
many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie-Pop?" <insert
sound of bottlecap opening & pouring a glass> "The world may never
know..." I am down to my last bottle of that batch. :-)
I actually visited the Dorchester brewery back in 1998 or thereabouts
and will go back and review my videotape as to whether or not I
discussed the grain bill with the brewer. I do recall I have shots of
the fermentation log (I.E. the chalkboard) attached to the open copper
lined fermenters they were using to make it, so I can likely get some
OG's off the video. I was barely a homebrewer then, so I likely didn't
know all the right questions to ask, but hopefully I got an answer
inadvertently. I do know however, that the 1997 version of Thomas
Hardy is not the same beer that the 1992-1996 versions were. The
Eldridge-Pope brewery was busy trying to make lots of alco-pop at the
time, along with light lagers and the standard cask ales and the 1997
reflected that in both its body and clarity. Will go back to the
source material and see what I can glean from my visit.
-BDB2
Bev D. Blackwood II
http://www.bdb2.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:25:46 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: more on hop tea
Domenick Venezia writes from Seattle, WA:
>This may be a sacreligious suggestion, but perhaps using hop extracts would
>be more effective.
I agree. I posted here a couple of years ago that I had a small
(15cc?) bottle of "iso-hop extract" that Jay at Adventures in
Homebrewing had given me. He had been given it as a sample.
I used it in an underhopped English bitter, and it was great. It
added a clean, focused hop bitterness but nothing else. (I already
had good flavor and aroma). It also made an incredibly stable head.
There were clots of foam in the empty glass the next morning.
It was so good that I can imagine it being standard for me for part
of the bittering, but, alas, Jay can't find any more. I did ask
Chris at Northern Brewing since they have a similar product
(Scottish) in their catalog, but he was non-committal or even a
little discouraging about it. Has anyone used this particular
product or another one?
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:38:14 -0500
From: "John McGowan" <jjm1 at comcast.net>
Subject: Diacetyl Reduction/Elimination
I would like the Collective's opinion on the preferred method for
reducing/removing diacetyl. Currently fermenting is a Pilsner with WLP800 at
52F. I have read of two methods. (BTW, if no buttery smell is detected
toward the end of primary fermentation, is either of these methods
necessary?)
One method of which I am aware is to allow the temp to rise to approx 60F
toward the end of primary fermentation for one day, then rack to secondary
and reduce temp 1F/day to lagering temp.
The other method is to rack to secondary (preferably a keg) and add a pint
of wort kept out of the original fermentation (ie, frozen after boil,
thawed, and added to secondary), allowing to ferment for 7 - 10 days then
dropping 1F/day to lagering temp.
Do both methods produce the same results? I'm leaning toward the second
method since it would have the added advantage of giving the beer some
carbonation. (BTW, if I follow this method would it be worthwhile to rack
over to a clean keg after secondary and then lager for an even "cleaner"
beer?)
Again, which method is "best" based on your experience? Or are they
"interchangeable"?
Thanks,
John McGowan
Hopewell, New Jersey
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:45:59 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Cheap Conicals - just one more
Dean <dean at deanandadie.net> wrote:
>You'll still need to get an airtight seal. I plan on taking the
>plunge into "open" fermenters, and just setting the lid on my
>fermenter.
I ferment ales in a ten gallon stock pot, the same one I use to heat
mash and sparge water. I generally keep it covered except when it
overflows (see next note), which keeps contaminants out. What I like
to use is 18"/49cm wide commercial plastic food wrap. It also comes
in 24"/61 cm width. When fermentation subsides, I top crop the
yeast. I prefer real top croppers like WhiteLabs WLP013 London and
WLP022 Essex.
I wet the top sides of the fermenter with sanitizing solution and
stretch the plastic wrap tight. The sanitizer makes it stick. After
a short time, the CO2 pressure pushes it up in a beautiful crystal
dome. Very cool looking. There is enough gas escaping that it is
stable and doesn't pull off as long as the sides of the fermenter
under the wrap remain wet.
//
On your original topic, Dean, when you made your original offer I
thought to myself that you might get more takers if you had given
your whole name and location. I see from your ZIP that you're in
Redwood City, CA, but the more we know about one another (up to a
point), the nicer it is, and especially if we are going to be sending
money!
Cheers
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:51:46 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: The Yeast that Ate Ann Arbor
Brewers
I brewed an imperial stout Monday and used WhiteLabs WLP013 London
Ale yeast, which produces a big thick head of yeast. I pitched 10
fluid ounces (300 cc) in 10 gallons and aerated three times. The
next day it was crawling out and kept this up for 12 hours. I
ultimately lost a gallon of beer, despite fermenting 11 gallons in a
15.5 gallon fermenter.
I have the whole story with scary photos and the Recipator recipe at
http://hbd.org/aabg/stories/renner03102004.html. Hope you'll take a
look.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:26:54 -0500
From: "Alexander Pettit" <hippahoratio at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Gas Regulator
Some folks have suggested a cleaning regimen to resolve the issue - good
idea. Here's one other thing to look at: If you are working with a newer
propane tank with the overfill protection valve, do you usually disconnect
your tank from the regulator between uses or leave it connected? If you
leave it connected you may have a similar issue to one I had with my gas
grill. I was cooking on the grill and after a while realized that it was
not as hot as it should be and found that the gas flow appeared to be very
restricted uniformly across all burners. Was I out of gas? Nope. I shut
everything down, disconnected the regulator, and waited a few minutes.
Hooked everything back up and I was good to go. I don't remember the
reasoning behind it all, nor why this sometimes happens with tanks that have
OPD valves, but I can see sense to it.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:12:38 -0600
From: "Ryan and Shelly Furstenau" <furstenau at frontiernet.net>
Subject: yeast dormant 2 years .. now working again
Hello! I am successfully reviving yeast that has been in my "starter
bottle" since 6/7/02. I have been holding this White Labs Yeast for almost
two years in the fridge and now it is up and running again. I pitched the
bottle to a yeast starter earlier this week and it is bubbling away. The
starter should be ready for this weekend's 5 gallon batch.
Has anyone else had this success with yeast stored refridgerated for almost
2 years?
Ryan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:15:38 -0500
From: Thom Cannell <t_cannell at compuserve.com>
Subject: Welding stainless
Scott McAfee asked about welding...
I have to second Mike Sharp's advice as to silver brazing. Scott, it's a
whole lot easier to learn to braze than MIG or TIG weld. And if you don't
weld every day, the brazing process is more forgiving and easier (IMO) to
remember. But they are all great fun and taught at almost every high school
or junior college. Some welding shops have classes for potential buyers and
will offer good advice if you bring along typical "I need to weld this to
that" parts.
I just added sight glasses (right angle SS tubing and braided hose) to all
my kettles, and finally modified my large Polarware kettle. I added a 1/2"
female coupling to replace a 3/8" male pipe. It was darn near impossible to
create a good strainer in the boil kettle and now I have something that
works extremely well (you'll see it eventually in BYO Magazine.) Welding
(silver brazing) took maybe five minutes and another few for cleaning the
flux and smoothing any roughness. BTW, ordinary hole saws will cut very nice
holes in Polarware pots!
When buying the silver-bearing rod, go for the highest silver content. Sure,
it's more expensive, but works easier, flows better. And I'm not half done
with the one stick I got two years ago. Also, the correct flux is critical.
Call the techs as Harris Welco or your vendor of choice. I did write up the
whole welding stainless thing in BYO a couple of years ago...
Thom Cannell
T_Cannell youknow compuserve.com
CannellAndAssociates at comcast.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:25:40 -0500
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: er: mixed yeast strains
Robin Griller writes ...,
>To follow up on Dave Burley's contribution on this, mixed yeast strains
>are, of course, used by significant numbers of breweries operating today,
Primarily in the UK & Belgium where pure culture never fully caught on.
>And, contrary to Steve's post, they apparently can
>be quite stable mixes. Bateman's brewery in England, for example, uses a
>two strain culture that remains stable for about 16 brews,
That's not very stable. How controlled are the brewing conditions to
maintain this limited stability ? How do you think this limited stability
would stand up if we changed the wort characteristics or the fermentation
temps of the access to O2 ? Not well I think.
>The highgate
>brewery, iirc, has a four strain culture. They apparently isolated the
>strains and attempted removing the less prominent strains, but had to
>return to the original four strain mixture as the beer produced was just
>not the same.
We hear this sort of "mystical mixture of yeasts" stuff from numerous
breweries. Whitbread has three which each bring something to the party,
even Pilsner Urquell claims to use three strains. At least the Whitbread
case was well studied. I think it's mostly advertising copy - "we have this
unusual fermentation that ...makes our beer unique".
UK and Belgians breweries didn't pick up the pure culture craze that Hanson
started in Copenhagen and which rapidly (dis)infected Germanic breweries.
Well at least not till many decades later.
It's relatively easy to select out pure strains, but it's been relatively
hard to reliably distinguish and match strains until genetic phenotyping
became available in the past decade+. The breweries which do not use pure
culture typically had no idea how many yeasts were involved nor whether the
strains were in stable mixtures. There is absolutely no reason to think
that the current 4 strains of Highgate are the same in number, strain or
mixing proportion as what appeared there prior to pure culture maintenance.
They typically wouldn't know.
Please note that I am not dissing the beers made from mixed culture. The
wine industry is more evenly split between "natural (mixed) fermentation" vs
pure culture and it's difficult to claim superiority for either side except
in specific cases. In beer natural fermentation or some of the complex
successions of fermenting organisms used in some Belgian beers can be
stupendous - but are of course unreproducible and have the potential to be
very bad (infected).
I agree with Robin's other points, except I think it may be difficult to
find pairs of brewing yeasts which are "metastable" together. If you have a
traditional brewery and find two strains in the fermenter in quantity you
might reasonable have a metastable pair. If you pick two smack-pack and mix
the results it's far less likely. You haven't selected for metastability.
Perhaps if you mixed together 50 ale strains and grew these for several
dozen generations and looked for prominent populations by phenotype you'd
find some metastable mixes.
-S
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:30:39 -0500
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Killer yeast/acetone
Mike Sharp asks,
>Steve mentioned killer yeasts...I've always been curious about this. What
>is different about a killer yeast, and is it effective against, say wild
>yeasts? Are they effective against other spoilage organisms?
One K-factor is a protein secreted by killer yeasts that causes neighboring
cell membranes to open a selective potassium channel. The cells can no
longer maintain their ion balance and die about as quickly as a human after
a potassium injection. The killer cells do not suffer the same fate since
this toxin also closes the potassium channel when it's present inside the
cell.
Killer yeast are effective against many wild yeasts, but certainly not all.
In one test 30 yeast were sensitive to the potassium channel K-factor and 59
were not impaired by it. I doubt it prevents bacterial infection which are
the primary brewery spoilage vectors. Bacterial membranes are a fair bit
different than fungal membranes.
This "K-factor" is apparently caused by a virus infecting the yeast and the
property can be introduced into uninfected yeast relatively easily.
======
Fredrick notes that some Clostridia can produce acetone. Not only
Clostridia but also Saccharomyces cerevisiae have been used for industrial
acetone production by this pathway ! It *shouldn't* occur at beer pH, but
...
Also consider that certain esters have a very solvent-y aroma not unlike
acetone.
-S
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:19:22 -0600
From: "William Frazier" <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: more on hop tea/hop extracts
Demonick wrote "This may be a sacreligious suggestion, but perhaps using hop
extracts would
be more effective."
Demonick - Jeff Renner has mentioned hop extracts that provide a pure
bitterness...not necessarily hop flavor. My local homebrew shop doesn't
have this product. I've tried the sources Jeff mentioned to no avail. Do
you know of a source for this type hop extract?
Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:18:12 -0500
From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com>
Subject: Yeast Nutrient Added to Stout
I posted a few days ago asking how to add Yeast nutrient. Since no one
seemed to know, I just added 3 teaspoons into the 5.5 gal, and it took 4
days, but it's really taken off. The output of the bubbler smells fine, so
I guess it's the yeast, not bacteria that's chomping away.
Dave King (BIER) [396.1, 89.1] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4498, 03/13/04
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