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HOMEBREW Digest #4483
HOMEBREW Digest #4483 Tue 24 February 2004
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
Re: mass flow meters ("-S")
RE: Garden Hose in brewing? ("Renato Bugge")
Chooks In Our Shorts? ("Phil Yates")
Unused Brewing Equipment (Alexandre Enkerli)
RE:Garden Hoses ("Pat and Debbie")
Mass Flow Meters ("Pete Calinski")
Re: mass flow meters ("Mike Sharp")
Regarding Turndown ("Mike Sharp")
Re: Link of the week ("Richard S. Sloan")
static fizz (Burn Unit)
Seattle brewpubs ("Peter A. Ensminger")
Lead and garden hose misinformation? (Calvin Perilloux)
Clinit*st availability, unflavored water hoses ("Dave Burley")
Cool Technology (no pun intended) ("Reif and Angie Hammond")
max safe ambient temp for ful CO2 tank ("Andy and Tina Bailey")
Solvent and banana flavors ("Steve Smith")
Fifth Annual Lallemand Scholarship! ("Rob Moline")
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Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:44:16 -0500
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: mass flow meters
Mike says ...,
> > Still the MFMs are temp sensitive
> No, they're not that bad. [...] 0C to 50C.
The ones I see on Omega are 1.5%FS from 18C to 25C but only 3%FS from 0-50C.
[low resolution and error issues ]
> But if you're interested in the *integral* of flow (the total CO2 mass
> produced), I'd say the accuracy at the low end doesn't really matter all
> that much.
I disagree. The cumulative error at that low end is very important. Look at
Ken's data, ~400L from a 5gal ferment. If you are off by 15ml/min for a 42
hour ferment that's 40L (10% total) error!! Also about a third of his
non-zero data is below the turndown point assuming 500ml/min and 10:1. I
don't want a thermometer that's labeled cool, warm, hot - I want numerical
results at least as accurately as a good hydrometer. Total CO2 to 3%
accuracy and hopefully 1%.
> If you're interested in the *rate* then buy a meter that's about
> 150% of the rate you're interested in.
You are missing the point. HBing is NOT an industrial process. Our peak
CO2 rate will necessarily vary and we can't afford an extra sensor for each
case. I will probably have to compromise, but that's the goal.
> It's not fair to say you're
> interested in the rate at all points! ;^)
It's completely fair to seek better resolution & accuracy so long as I'm
willing
to pay for it.
> Both coriolis and thermal mass flow meters have around a 10:1 turndown
> ratio. Typically the accuracy is rated from 10% to 100%, but the
> resolution is much better.
> In the case of the Omega thermal mass flowmeter, the
> repeatability is 0.5% FS. But while the coriolis MFMs have a better
> accuracy for a given rate (about 0.5% of the rate, I think), they still
> only go from 10%-100%.
We are CLEARLY talking about two different things Mike.
For anyone interested turndown ration is ...
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/32_494.html
Coriolis MVDs have a turndown around 100:1 and as high as 500:1
and an accuracy of 0.1%; so error is spec down to 1%
(or 0.2%). They are stunningly accurate and ideal for HB use.
If only they were cheap !
> IMHO, It's hard to argue with 1-1.5% FS, when the turndown is 10 to 1.
> You're still in within 10% of the actual rate at the low end.
I agree that 1.5% is fine for a 10:1 turndown, but 10:1 isn't acceptable
given
the range of our parameter and my design requirement to get the integral
under
3% total error.
> And at the end of ferment, as you said, the source of a lot of that gas is
> the CO2 coming out of solution, so it's not telling you much about the
> current state of fermentation anyway. And it makes little difference in
>the total gas produced.
Mike - I can see why you don't care about several percent meter error when
you throw away a 10% sized terms without a second thought.. Your approach
is far too primitive for me at least.
There are two distinct gas rates involved - the rate at which CO2 is
produced by yeast (which related to the Balling eqn) and the rate that CO2
evolves from the fermenter(related to vols vs partial pressures and
nucleation sites, etc) The wort/beer fluid acts as a reservoir of CO2
which absorbs and releases the gas according to some simple rules.
The meter reads the evolved gas rate NOT the yeast CO2 production rate. You
can determine an approximate figure for the supersaturation decay time
constant and model the entire system with 1/ yeast CO2 production, 2/ wort
CO2 reservoir and 3/ CO2 evolution rates all included. This is Control
Theory 101 type stuff and I'm sure a dozen people on this forum can produce
the eqn faster & better than I. Right now I don't have the hour necessary
to fiddle with it.
> so it's not telling you much about the
> current state of fermentation anyway.
The evolved and measured CO2 rate NEVER tells you directly what the yeast
is doing. It's not just a problem at the end of fermentation. In the first
part of fermentation the yeast produce CO2 but little is evolved - it stays
in solution and the meter reads near zero. As the peak approached the wort
CO2 buffer dampens the rate. Later the yeast have almost ceased fermenting
but the CO2 evolution continues out of the buffer. The Wort/beer buffer
effectively causes a phase shift of the "signal" which is the CO2 creation
rate. The wort buffering of CO2 is a bit like throwing a capacitor over
your signal voltage if you'd like a circuit analogy. The only way to
derive a *dynamic* model is to correct for the wort buffering and that's
ONLY rocket science.
> And it makes little difference in
>the total gas produced.
No. In practice wort with typical gravity and attenuation will produce
around 20-25 volumes of CO2. You CANNOT ignore even 0.5 vol of CO2 if you
hope to match the accuracy of a good hydrometer. Ignoring the late
evolution of supersaturated CO2 - gives around 6 % error ! Unacceptable.
===
It's a different topic but I've also been exploring driving supersaturated
CO2 from the fermenter actively. This would improve fermentation and also
make the model above much simpler.
===
> > The performance of Coriolis MVDs sensors looks completely outstanding,
...
> You mean like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2598064685&category=1504
No - that's a thermal MFM I believe. What I am talking about are Coriolis
effect meters ...
http://www.emersonprocess.com/micromotion/products/pdf/ELITE_PDS_ENG_00374_B.pdf
I'm certainly not opposed to other technology or arranging several thermal
MFMs to get accuracy but I really want the integral accuracy <3% at worst
case.
====
"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in
numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when
you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge of it is of a meager and
unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have
scarcely, in your thoughts, advanced it to the stage of science", Sir
William Thompson, Lord Kelvin (1824-1907)
"Hats off" to Ken A. For those who didn't realize - Ken took all those data
points *manually* and it must have cost him a lot of sleep and being chained
to his fermenter for several days in a row ! That's dedication.
-Steve
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:33:05 +0100
From: "Renato Bugge" <renato.bugge at iet.ntnu.no>
Subject: RE: Garden Hose in brewing?
Pat Babcock wrote:
>
Something about garden hose (deleted).. :)
>
>Between pots, I've been in the habit of using washing machine
>hookups (armored hose). This thread begs the question: is lead
>involved in the manufacture of the interior hose of these
>beasties? Maybe not, since hoses made throuhg a similar process
>are used to hook up sinks; however, I still wonder...
To my remeberance, such hoses consists of rubber interior and exterior with a
fiber wowen in between the two layers. It has black inside and red outside?
Rubber does not contain lead, but there could be trace amounts of sulphur
(from the rubber processing).
Garden hoses are essencially more cheaper versions made of plastic (and
seldom rubber), personally I prefer rubber (not for wear, though). Running
some hot water through the rubber hose should remove any sulphur, but to be
shure you shuld add a little vinegar (not much!) to the water (the weak acid
will dissolve any surface sulphur).
Rubber hoses are essencially more expensive as they last many times longer.
If you are only planning to brew a couple of batches of your favorite
imperial stout, it shouldn't matter which type you use.
Cheers!
Renato Bugge,
Trondheim, Norway.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:59:01 +1100
From: "Phil Yates" <phil.yates at bigpond.com>
Subject: Chooks In Our Shorts?
Steve Alexander makes note:
> Phil Y notes ...
> >I can't see anything wrong with sticking the odd chook in the cask
> >when making Cock Ale,
>
> That sounds more than a bit perverse, but whatever twists your pickle
> Phil ;^) Yes I was being a bit judgement - in jest. I don't generally
> enjoy vegetables or poultry in beer and I can find a better place to
> keep my chook.
>
> -S
Oh dear oh dear, I see a dreadful misunderstanding here. I believe Steve has
grasped the chook by the wrong end. In fact I think he's altogether grasped
the wrong chook! I blame all this on Arnold Chickenshorts, who may have left
a wrong interpretation of Aussie terms (and led Steve to believe we keep
chickens or chooks in our trousers). But who would remember Arnold, other
than Steve?
My reference to Cock Ale comes from an old recipe that suggests it (the
cock) be parboiled, flayed and stamped with a stone mortar till his bones
are broken. With raisins, mace and a few cloves he is added to the cask
before bottling. Mr Charles Papazian himself made reference to this very
recipe in one of his early books.
I'm a bit inclined though to agree with Steve, it might be one you drink
whilst pinching your nose very tight. But on the other hand, who knows? It
might be worth a try. I think homebrewing is all about getting away from
laws and restrictions. What got me started (in brewing) was a fascination
with being able to brew any style (or non style) you wanted. I'm surprised
so many brewers tie themselves down to accepted styles, as though there is
nothing else to discover.
But be assured Steve, real Aussies don't keep chickens in their shorts, nor
chooks for that matter.
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:38:24 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Unused Brewing Equipment
Guy Gregory, of Spokane, WA (1660.4, 294.3 Rennerian) described his
experience with rehabilitating some of his equipment after two years of
something called "not brewing."
My experience differs from his in that when I reused my equipment after
leaving it for two years, not much more cleaning was needed. Likewise,
the equipment I use now belongs to someone who has stopped using it
three years ago and I've not had had any problem with this either.
Well, there was a cracked racking cane which eventually gave up but it
probably had little to do with storage.
In both cases, I soaked the equipment in hot tap water for a while then
inspected everything and soaked it in a chlorine solution. Extensive
rinsing and then boiling some of the equipment. Use as usual. Good as
new.
Some of my own equipment (plastic and glass, including carboys) spent
extended amounts of time in chlorine solution and I didn't perceive any
effect of chlorine residue. Of course, I rinse very thoroughly and I
boil everything that can be boiled. Of course, I made the mistake of
boiling my hydrometer and kept getting weird readings. Turns out the
paper in the hydrometer slid down because of the heat... ;-)
But everything's fixed now and I brew happily ever after...
Cheers!
AleX in Moncton, NB
[1568.9km, 68] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:19:02 -0600
From: "Pat and Debbie" <reddydp at charter.net>
Subject: RE:Garden Hoses
I piped hot water in to my existing pipe leading to the outside as I brew in
the garage. This has several advantages that I'll save for another post.
The problem I ran in to was that my "reinforced" garden hose lasted me 3
batches before it got some ugly bubbles in the cover and ultimately burst.
I don't know about garden hose materials and how they may effect an
otherwise healthy brew, but I can tell you without a doubt that garden hoses
are NOT meant for high temps.
PMR
River Bound Brewing Co.
- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:52:13 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Mass Flow Meters
Well, Mike Sharp said, "I'd be interested if someone could find a lower
accuracy version (especially with a display) in the $100 range".
I don't have the full solution but, just about every vehicle engine has a
mass flow meter in the air cleaner path. Of course, this is just the
sensor. The measurement and interpretation is done by the "vehicle
computer".
I have built the OBDII Scantool (http://www.scantool.net/index.htm) (no
affiliation just a satisfied....) and use my PocketPC and/or PC to read the
vehicle computer, including "Air Flow Rate (MAF sensor)".
So a trip to the auto junk yard will get the sensor and hopefully the
computer. Then buy the Scantool chip ($16.00) or complete unit. Tie it to
your computer and you are off and running.
If your junk yard version is the same system as your vehicle, you can also
use it to shut off the "Check Engine" light so you won't need to keep the
masking tape over the light.
Of course I have no idea if the MAF measures in range of interest or can be
modified to the correct range.
Just an idea, I may get interested in this project.
Hope this helps.
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
http://hbd.org/pcalinsk
***********************************************************
*My goal:
* Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
* (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:17:32 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: mass flow meters
-S rants in typical fashion, saying among other things:
> Coriolis MVDs have a turndown around 100:1 and as high as 500:1
> and an accuracy of 0.1%; so error is spec down to 1%
> (or 0.2%). They are stunningly accurate and ideal for HB use.
> If only they were cheap !
You need to re-examine what you've read. You don't get maximum accuracy at
maximum turndown. The specified accuracy is governs the turndown ratio. As
the TD increases, the accuracy gets worse. There isn't a Coriolis MFM made
with 500:1 and 0.1% of rate! (BTW, MVD is Micromotion's trademark for their
signal processing technology; there's no such thing as a Coriolis MVD unless
you're talking about Micromotion Coriolis MFM with MVD). The thermal MFMs
can work with higher TD, but like ALL measuring devices, the accuracy
suffers if you require high TD. Coriolis MFMs are unique in that their
accuracy is flat until the reading disappears in the zero stability region.
They are "stunningly accurate" if the flow rate is high enough. They are
stunningly inaccurate if the flow rate is very low, as it is here.
However they are anything *BUT* ideal for HB use. In fact, (and as far as
I'm concerned, this ends the discussion about coriolis MFMs), the meter
you're so hot on won't go anywhere near low enough for our use. In fact,
Micromotion recommends (for their smallest device) about 1000 sccm *at the
low end* and the accuracy is around 3% at that flow. They can't even
*measure* the flow rates you want at the low end. Low flows are the domain
of the thermal MFM.
My suggestion is to use two thermal MFMs in series, if you're so concerned
with the accuracy at the extreme end of the turndown. And if accuracy at
the low end is that important, I'd run the gas through a dryer, as the
moisture will affect your reading.
Steve, I've installed both coriolis AND thermal MFMs in the past (including
the Micromotion products, which are wonderful products), and I'm intimately
familar with what each can do. You're welcome to go out and spend a couple
grand on a meter that won't work at all for you...These meters have their
application "sweet spots", but home brewing isn't it. Now, if you want to
measure CO2 production in a 15 bbl fermenter, you're getting closer. Even
then, I'd say thermal MFMs are more appropriate and cost effective.
> "Hats off" to Ken A. For those who didn't realize - Ken took all those
data
> points *manually* and it must have cost him a lot of sleep and being
chained
> to his fermenter for several days in a row ! That's dedication.
At least we agree on something! Thanks Ken!
Regards,
Mike Sharp
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:56:39 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Regarding Turndown
I wanted to add one more comment about turndown ratios. The turndown of a
given instrument is based on the *instrument's* maximum flow, not your
*desired* max flow. You can't say "I'm interested in 1000 sccm" and assume
you'll have even 500:1 of reading available. The smallest Micromotion MFM
is rated for 4 SCFM at a 10psi pressure drop. That's 113300 sccm, which is
a bit out of our range for both flow and pressure. A 500:1 TD takes it down
below the instruments capacity to read. To get 500:1, you have accept a
much greater pressure drop across the instrument.
At the pressures we're working with, you're not going to get anywhere near
500:1, even assuming they had a meter to measure the flow.
Regards,
Mike Sharp
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:12:09 -0800
From: "Richard S. Sloan" <rssloan at household.com>
Subject: Re: Link of the week
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 Bob Devine wrote...
>>
>>When you are on the road and want a good beer, how to you
>>find out what is worth stopping for?
Another good link for this is
http://beeradvocate.com/beerfly/
Cheers & Beers!
Richard Sloan
San Diego, CA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:31:36 -0600
From: Burn Unit <burnunit at waste.org>
Subject: static fizz
That sounds like a decent name for an ambient band, or a brewery. BUT,
it's a symptom in my carboy.
To wit, I have this dunkel-mumblemumble in the secondary right now (I
say mumble mumble because it was supposed to be a dunkel bock, but the
OG placed it out of that style so I just call it a dunkel). I've done
four hydrometer tests over three weeks and it hasn't moved from 1.013.
To me that says it's basically fermented out and ready to bottle.
EXCEPT, it's still active. It's a little fizzy, with some fizz in the
graduated cylinder and the airlock shows positive pressure from within,
and it bubbles if I jostle it (like when I went to take a reading).
Hence, the 'static' fizz.
It's my first lager and first serious all grain, so I'm not adjusted
fully to the slow ferment times and catch myself trying to get back to
the 'relax don't worry' mode (the samples have all tasted great!). But
since it hasn't budged at all from that 1.013 gravity, I feel it's
done. I just don't want to overprime it. Do I wait til it's flat and
then go? Or do I use less than my usual amount of priming sugar? Or
do I use a normal amount but keep it cold for a while?
Suggestions?
Thanks,
JonO
Minneapolis, MN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:06:41 -0500
From: "Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Seattle brewpubs
I am going to Seattle, WA soon for a conference. I got a list of
brewpubs from links posted in yesterday's digest
(<http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/4482.html#4482-5>, see below). Any
locals care to give their opinions of these places? TIA for your help.
Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
- -----
Seattle Brewpubs:
Big Time Brewery & Alehouse
Dad Watsons
Elliott Bay Brewing Company
Elysian Brewing Company
Elysian Brewing Company - TangleTown
Gordon Biersch Brewing Company
Hale's Ales Brewery & Pub
Hart Brewery & Pub / Pyramid Ales
Maritime Pacific Brewing
McMenamins Queen Anne Hill
McMenamins/Six Arms Pub
Pacific Crest Brewing Company
Pike Brewery & Pub
Pyramid Alehouse, Brewery & Restaurant
Ram Restaurants / Big Horn Breweries
Rock Bottom Brewery
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:16:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lead and garden hose misinformation?
Tim Howe complains in Monday's HBD about misinformation
regarding using garden hose in brewing. Seems to be a bit
of confusion as to which aspect of brewing was being addressed,
as we've discussed offline, so let's straighten it out..
I was talking about the post of the day before:
> David Houseman mentioned the possibility of using garden
> hose in home brewing.
>
> I wouldn't advocate that as I would be concerned that some
> of the platicisers may come out into the wort, but it is
> possible to get "catering grade" hose that does the job
> admirably. Being specially designed for food, I'm more
> happy with leaving it in contact with wort.
So I was thinking of this posting regarding "plasticisers"
and adding some info to that, whereas I believe Tim was talking
about another posting using garden hose as the outer shell
of a counter flow wort chiller. I think both Tim and I agree
that wort-contact applications are bad, and waste-water-contact
applications are fine. No misinformation there, just some
clarification.
Anyone feel like running some tests on hot wort through a
garden hose? I do wonder what the lead testing kits would
tell you if they got a sample jar of wort instead of water!
And I also wonder if the lead coming out of that hose would
actually be higher than what our poor brewing brethren in DC
are getting fresh out of their kitchen taps already! (So THAT'S
what happens to our hometown politician after they've been in
DC too long... it IS the water!)
Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:00:32 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Clinit*st availability, unflavored water hoses
Brewsters:
Andy in Hillsborough decries starting a new Clinitest row but asks about
getting Clinitest.
You must have missed my first reply.
You can buy the tablets from your pharmacy ( maybe 100 in a box) and if you
don't have the kit, just get an eyedropper from the pharmacy and use a
testube. The color test comparisons and instructions are in the box of
tablets.
- ------------------
Another place to get those unflavored white, food-grade water hoses is from
camping and RV stores and probably Wall-Mart.
Keep on Brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:37:32 -0500
From: "Reif and Angie Hammond" <arhammond at comcast.net>
Subject: Cool Technology (no pun intended)
Check this out:
http://www.coolsystem.de/home.html
Reif Hammond
Durham NH
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:13:35 -0800
From: "Andy and Tina Bailey" <atmlobailey at cox.net>
Subject: max safe ambient temp for ful CO2 tank
I would like to put my CO2 tank outside of my refrigerator. However, where I
live, average daily high temps are 100+ for 2.5 to 3 months. What is the
safest ambient temperature that I can keep my full CO2 tank at without
worry. Also, what is the highest ambient temperature for a high pressure
hose leading from the tank to the regulator? Any help would be appreciated.
Andy in Las Vegas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:34:46 -0700
From: "Steve Smith" <sasmith at in-tch.com>
Subject: Solvent and banana flavors
In my recent batch of Belgian Ale, I ended up with a fair amount of the
solvent and banana flavors that result from fermenting with Chimay yeast
(cultured from a bottle of Chimay) at too high a temperature, or from poor
yeast health. Can anybody who has experienced this tell me if, after 6
months of cellar storage, those flavors dissipate to where the beer is
actually enjoyable?
Whoops...,
Steve Smith
Missoula, MT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:48:50 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Fifth Annual Lallemand Scholarship!
Fifth Annual Lallemand Scholarship!
Folks,
It is with the utmost delight that I post this!
Lallemand, the makers of Danstar dry yeast and Servomyces yeast nutrient,
is once again proud to sponsor the Fifth Annual Lallemand Scholarship.
This scholarship is for one lucky American Homebrewers Association member
to attend the 2004 World Brewing Academy Concise Course in Brewing
Technology (Nov. 1 - 12, 2004) in Chicago, Illinois.
The famous two-week WBA Concise Course in Brewing Technology will provide
students with a comprehensive knowledge of the brewing process, the dynamics
of brewery operations, and socioeconomic issues affecting the industry.
This two-week course (valued at $ 2,900) is provided at the Siebel
Institute of Technology campus in Chicago, America's oldest and most
recognized brewing school. The winner also receives $1,000 towards any
expenses while in Chicago, one of America's most exciting and vibrant
cities.
REQUIREMENTS
AHA members may enter the contest by filling out the online form linked
to this page. You will need to know your AHA membership number, which
appears on your AHA membership card. If you do not know your membership
number or would like to join, e-mail info at aob.org, call 888-822-6273, or
visit our membership page.
HOW TO ENTER
Online entry forms must be submitted by June 4, 2004. Entries will also
be accepted from attendees at the AHA National Homebrewers Conference in Las
Vegas, NV, June 17-19, 2004. Only one entry per AHA Member will be accepted,
however, an additional entry may be obtained by submitting a ballot for the
AHA Board of Advisors election or see the ballot in the March/April Zymurgy
for details. All ballots must be submitted by April 1, 2004.
WINNER ANNOUNCED
The drawing for the Lallemand Scholarship will take place at the AHA
National Homebrewers Conference in Las Vegas, NV during the Grand Banquet on
June 19, 2004. The winner must have a current AHA membership at the time of
the drawing to be eligible.
SCHOLARSHIP RULES
Members of the AHA Board of Advisors, Association of Brewers Board of
Directors, staff of the Association of Brewers, Siebel, Lallemand, and
anyone who has previously been awarded any scholarship to the Siebel
Institute are ineligible. Awarded courses must be completed within one year.
Winners must provide a written report on their Siebel experiences to the
AHA/AOB/Lallemand/Siebel. Rights to publication of report and photographs of
the winner are granted to the AHA/AOB, Siebel and Lallemand.
For more information, go to
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html
http://www.siebelinstitute.com/registration/scholar_lallemand.html
http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/danstar.html
or contact Rob Moline at lallemand-yeast at mchsi.com
Cheers!
Rob Moline
"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #4483, 02/24/04
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