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HOMEBREW Digest #4456
HOMEBREW Digest #4456 Tue 20 January 2004
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
Re: sparge arm? (Scott Alfter)
Re: dropped rubber stopper in carboy - should I be concerned? ("Bob Daugherty")
Vanilla Porter Question ("Don Scholl")
Re: Pressure Cookers and Cereal Mash, MCAB (Jeff Renner)
Motorizing a JSP MaltMill ("Mike Dixon")
Re: Yeast ranching (Christopher Swingley)
beer in the news ("Christopher T. Ivey")
RE: "purging" (neils)
RE: dropped rubber stopper in carboy - should I be concerned? ("Josh Ellison")
Re: uh-oh, ya got him started... (Wes Smith)
Re: Advice sought on yeast culturing supplies and techniques (Jeff Renner)
Re: Advice sought on yeast culturing supplies and techniques (Mark Tigges)
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:40:21 -0800
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Re: sparge arm?
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 at 20:12:25 -0600, Stan Gammons <s_gammons at charter.net>
wrote:
> I just started making beer using the all grain method. My first batch
> was an Oatmeal Stout and it turned out pretty well considering it was my
> first attempt. Slowly pouring the hot sparge water over the grain a
> quart at a time is the way I sparged the first batch. As everyone know,
> that is a pain. I've seen the Phil's sparge arm and was wondering how
> well it works? Has anyone made something similar, rotating or
> stationary that works just as well?
I made a lauter tun out of a 5-gallon water cooler, some copper tubing (3/8"
o/d, IIRC), and assorted fittings and valves. The manifold is a copper
spiral drilled with lots of 1/32" holes that bolts to a short piece of
tubing stuck through the valve (remove the button and stem from the valve
and drill through it from back to front so you can pass the pipe through).
The sparge arm is a length of copper tubing, drilled with holes and stuck
through a couple of holes at the top of the cooler.
I've used it for one batch so far, a partial-mash Jever clone back in
November. I just bottled it this past Wednesday, but I think it'll turn out
well. (While it's still flat at this point, it had pretty good flavor
otherwise.) Once the mill arrives from B3, it'll get put to use on an
all-grain batch.
While you would want a swiveling sparge arm in a commercial setup, I suspect
that at homebrewing scale it doesn't make much difference. As long as you
keep about 1" of water over the top of the grains, a stationary arm should
work just as well. You're only dripping water onto the grains, not shooting
a firehose at it.
_/_ Scott Alfter ($firstname at $lastname.us)
/ v \ http://alfter.us/
(IIGS( Southern Nevada Ale Fermenters Union - http://snafu.alfter.us/
\_^_/ Beer and Loafing in Las Vegas - http://www.beerandloafing.org/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 05:31:10 -0600
From: "Bob Daugherty" <lz129 at houston.rr.com>
Subject: Re: dropped rubber stopper in carboy - should I be concerned?
Dave:
I had the same thing witha trippel I made back in October.I went ahead and
let it stay as well with no tastable ill effects. I'm sure that your
stopper was sanitized? The most worrisome thoought for me was that I would
have to buy another 6 1/2 gallon glass carboy butafter we racked to
secondary my wife (and PBWed clean the carboy of course!) was able to turn
the carboy upside down, get the stopper into the neck, loop a string
throough the stopper hole with a weight on it, and then pull it out!
Bob Daugherty
Houston, TX
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:18:12 -0500
From: "Don Scholl" <dws at engineeringdimensions.com>
Subject: Vanilla Porter Question
Good morning, I just brewed a Brown Porter yesterday (Sunday) with approx.
30 IBU's and 5.5% ABV. I would like to add 2 vanilla beans cut into 1" long
pieces and add to the secondary and rack the porter onto them for 2 weeks.
My question is: Will this cause too strong a vanilla flavor or will I need
to add more beans? Thanks in advance for your comments.
Don Scholl
Twin Lake, Michigan
(140.9, 302.4)Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:03:25 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pressure Cookers and Cereal Mash, MCAB
Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> of Lake Jackson, TX writes
>I seem to remember someone
>(Jeff?) posting last year about doing a cereal mash (cornmeal/Polenta and
>malt) in a large pressure cooker. I'd like to try this and was looking for
>some information on water ratios and cooking time. Was there any scorching
>problems?
I use about the same amount of water as in a regular mash, maybe a
little more. Mash the cereal with 30% malt for a half hour or so at
150-155F (63-66C), then put it in a pressure cooker. Be sure to use
a separate pot or bowl inside the pressure cooker for the mash - not
the pressure cooker itself, or you may have scorching. I use a big
pressure cooker so this is easy, but when I had a small one, I used a
SS bowl for the cereal mash.
There should be no scorching since you are not heating the cereal
mash directly. I cook it about 15-20 minutes once it comes to
pressure, but longer won't hurt corn. Polenta should be cooked
longer than finer meal, but 20 minutes at 15 psi should take care of
either. Rice should not be overcooked or it may cause lautering
problems, according to the old texts. I'd say maybe 10 minutes. Of
course, this potential problem is with large proportions of rice, not
the 20-25% we typically use.
>Anyone planning on going to the MCAB this year? http://hbd.org/mcab/ It
>looks like it should be a good time.
I'll be there.
>I wonder how far Warren, Michigan is from (0,0)?
[42.0, 071]
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:26:55 -0500
From: "Mike Dixon" <mpdixon at ipass.net>
Subject: Motorizing a JSP MaltMill
> From: "Richard Schmittdiel" <schmitrw at earthlink.net>
> Bill at No Spam notes that motorizing a JSP MaltMill does void the
warranty.
> True enough.
I believe that you and Bill have misunderstood. When I look at the site
http://schmidling.netfirms.com/maltmill.htm I clearly see the statement...
"The MALTMILL is as at home in a small brewery as it is in the basement. It
is designed to last forever and any part that does not will be replaced at
no charge. This LIFETIME WARRANTY is in no way effected by motorizing the
MALTMILL..."
Motorize all you want according to that statement and you're still
covered...
Cheers,
Mike Dixon
Wake Forest, NC
www.ipass.net/mpdixon/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:28:58 -0900
From: Christopher Swingley <cswingle at iarc.uaf.edu>
Subject: Re: Yeast ranching
* Steve Jones <stjones1atchartertn.net> [2004-Jan-17 04:21 AKST]:
> One problem that can occur is condensation in the slants.
I'm just curious -- what's the problem? I'm new to yeast ranching, but
I've got four varieties of yeast in the fridge, and there's certainly
some water on the inside of the tube. It seems to pick up some of the
yeast and results in a blob of yeast at the bottom of the slant where
the water collects. But the yeast are growing well on the slant
surface as well.
In the future I'll let the media cool some before pouring, but should I
worry about the yeast I've already cultured, and the blank slants
waiting for new varieties?
Chris
- --
Christopher S. Swingley email: cswingle at iarc.uaf.edu
IARC -- Frontier Program Please use encryption. GPG key at:
University of Alaska Fairbanks www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:20:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher T. Ivey" <cti3c at unix.mail.virginia.edu>
Subject: beer in the news
Last Sunday (11 Jan), NPR aired a story about an 18th century style beer
(sounds like a honey-lemon wheat ale) brewed by Yard's brewery in
Philadelphia, and served at the City Tavern. If you're interested, the
archived story can be heard at:
http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=1591417
Chris
Champaign, IL
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:56:13 CST
From: neils at texas.net
Subject: RE: "purging"
Sorry, I have to chime in here although I seem to be a total minority in my
opinion. I do not agree with the "tasteless/odorless" view of Iodophor. After
the episode I describe below, I did email someone I had found through the web
that did some sort of experiments - can't remember his name. The jist though is
that he vehemently disagreed with my accusations.
When I mix up a solution for sanitizing and I immediately detect that hospital
smell I'm led to believe it is not odorless.
More to the point of the "purging", again, I completely disagree that Iodophor
solution is tasteless in a finished beer. My first attempt at using Iodophor
with corny kegs proved this. I failed to extract the solution from the outlet
dip tube and it went into solution with the beer. The entire keg was totally
undrinkable and had to be dumped. I did allow the keg to settle a number of
days after having dumped a considerable number of the first pints down the
drain after I first detected it but it never seemed to clear up. I have another
witness to this particular situation, poor sole. It truly was "Iodine Beer" -
not one I want to reproduce.
Don't get me wrong, I continue to use Iodophor and it has proven to be far
superior to using chlorine. I am paranoid however so to go along with
the "tasteless/odorless" issue I also DO rinse and dry when using it and am
very careful about making sure all the keg parts have been thoroughly rinsed.
I've not had a problem since.
Neil Spake
Austin,
TX
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:22:27 -0600
From: "Josh Ellison" <wspweasel at msn.com>
Subject: RE: dropped rubber stopper in carboy - should I be concerned?
Read this thread.
http://www.beeradvocate.com/forum/read.php?thread=210490
I had the same problem. If your plug was sanitized don't worry about it.
Just buy a new one and keep it sealed up. FWIW it didn't contribute any off
flavors to my brew and that was my main concern. But let it be a lesson. #1
Make sure your plug and carboy neck are dry before plugging carboy. #2 don't
force it in too far, because once it's past that tapered part the carboy, in
essence, sucks the plug down into it. I managed to get my plug out after
racking my brew to secondary. I got it out with a coat hanger bent just
right so that it folded onto itself when pulled, thus reinforcing itself.
Good luck. And remember don't worry.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:54:04 +1100
From: Wes Smith <wsmith at rslcom.net.au>
Subject: Re: uh-oh, ya got him started...
Well, it certainly seems I have Mr Alexanders total attention.
>That's an erroneous understanding of enzymes. Enzymes are catalysts, and
>their amount determines RATE, not AMOUNT of source or product catalyzed.
>Your explanation is inconsistent with basic facts etc etc.
I am not an expert in yeast or the mechanics of fermentation which is why I
talked to a fermentation professional. I am going to stick with his input.
>NO ! Wes made up a fallacious sources for my data - and didn't even bother
>to look. The figures I quoted are "World refined sugar prices" from the spot
>market etc etc.
Googling up a string of commodity market quotes and simplistic shipping
costs without understanding how all this works in practice was always going
to be risky - especially from the comfort of the old favourite armchair.
Phil and I live and breath the malting and brewing industry here in this
antipodean corner of the globe - and we reckon we run a good little
operation. We import and export by shipping containers, we sell to large
commercial breweries, large and small micros and homebrew supply
wholesalers. We ship in bulk and in bags using container sea freight,
container rail freight, transcontinental trucking and regional trucking
services. Week in week out. Quite obviously we have got it all wrong -
maybe there is an opportunity for a qualified and experienced freelance
expert to come down and show us all how to run the industry?
BTW Sucrose syrup is liquid cane sugar and this is how the major sugar
users here in Australia take the product, usually by road tanker.
>Oh c'mon - I suppose they grow the malting barley on the north side of
>these plants and put up breweries on the south side to avoid shipping costs
>too ? etc etc
Actually almost right. Many of the original malt houses were brewery owned
and in some cases co-located. Today we find most of the maltings operations
near the principal growing areas, but still focused on suppling the mostly
state capital based breweries. Thats the way it is Steve. And I agree, this
discussion is not for this forum.
>Just to get back to basics - I have no doubt that simple sugars in high
>ratios impact flavor and fermentation- that's not at issue. There is
>certainly a case to be made in favor of low DE hydrolyzed starch for added
>dextrin body in beer. My point is only that off-citrus flavor is not
>directly attributable to high sucrose level and theories to explain it
>remain unsupported speculation.
Very happy to get back to basics. I note in todays (#4455) digest John
Palmer has recently done a side by side comparison with Coopers draught ale
kits. Funnily enough Phil and I only discussed this very idea yesterday. We
plan to do a similar exercise using a basic Coopers kit (the new premium
kits are actually a dedicated wort dehydrated straight to the can) - one
with granulated supermarket cane sugar and the other with Trimoline invert
syrup. We will report in due course.
And thats more than enough from me on this fractured thread.
Wes out.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:11:33 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Advice sought on yeast culturing supplies and techniques
Mark Tigges <mtigges at shaw.ca> wrote:
>2. Yes, break down and get a PC. ... Start making
>your media while the PC is warming (if you have a small one, that's
>uneccessary), fill your PC with your empty plates and vials (vials
>should be filled, it's much easier). Run PC at 15psi for 15 minutes,
>shutdown and let cool past 0 psi. Open her up, pour your plates.
Wow, I've always been a Mac man, but this may change my mind. I had
no idea PCs were that versatile. Does it take some kind of special
software? I'll bet it must be something in Promash. There must be
something like the CD drawer for putting in the plates and vials, I
guess. I hate to admit it, a Mac just doesn't do these things.
BTW, HBDers, I've sent in my donation to the server fund. Have you?
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:17:32 -0800
From: Mark Tigges <mtigges at shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Advice sought on yeast culturing supplies and techniques
On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 12:14:55PM -0500, Jeff Renner wrote:
> Mark Tigges <mtigges at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> >2. Yes, break down and get a PC. ... Start making
> >your media while the PC is warming (if you have a small one, that's
> >uneccessary), fill your PC with your empty plates and vials (vials
> >should be filled, it's much easier). Run PC at 15psi for 15 minutes,
> >shutdown and let cool past 0 psi. Open her up, pour your plates.
>
> Wow, I've always been a Mac man, but this may change my mind. I had
> no idea PCs were that versatile. Does it take some kind of special
> software? I'll bet it must be something in Promash. There must be
> something like the CD drawer for putting in the plates and vials, I
> guess. I hate to admit it, a Mac just doesn't do these things.
>
hah, being a computer professional the idea of 15psi for 15 minutes
seems sometimes seems like a fantastic idea to do to a PC (the digital
kind), but not to discriminate I'd throw a mac in there just as fast
;)
But as others have mentioned on this thread ... the PC (the really hot
kind) are useful for more than just culturing. Get a big one, big
enough to can the tomatoes that you're growing in the field that your
border collies roam in, right Denny?
M
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #4456, 01/20/04
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