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HOMEBREW Digest #4458
HOMEBREW Digest #4458 Thu 22 January 2004
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
Re: Vanilla Porter (Matthew Riggs)
Craftbrewer Sponorship ("Graham L Sanders")
ATTENTION: Those using email authentification services... (Pat Babcock)
Re: Special roast and victory malts (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
Re: uh-oh/If you start me up ("-S")
Need help in updating Brewery (Edward Seymour)
Scottsdale Brewpubs (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
RE: Victory & Special Roast ("Urban, Michael J, WCS")
drying malted grain ("Mike Sharp")
Sanitation Practices and the common Homebrew Resources ("Pat and Debbie Reddy")
starter aeration and stuck fermentation (Craig Agnor)
Need help in updating Brewery ("Seymour, Edward C")
Propane cooker conversion to NG (victorsv)
er; Splenda -- Is it Fermentable? ("Stephen Alexander")
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:18:48 -0600
From: Matthew Riggs <braumeister at cox.net>
Subject: Re: Vanilla Porter
Ed Benckert <ed at ebonmists.com> wrote:
I was just about to brew one myself. Here's my take on things.
I've only brewed a vanilla porter once before, a small 1 gallon tester
batch. I used 1 vanilla bean. It was so sickly vanilla I had to
throw it out. When I brew my 5 gallon batch, I plan on 2 beans. Thats
40% the amount of vanilla I used the last time, so it should be
good. Maybe try 3 if you're daring, but 1 bean in 1 gallon made the
beer undrinkable, at least to my tastebuds.
I use two beans split in half down the long center and it is always more
than enough vanilla flavor. I also put it in the secondary if that is
any consolation.
- --
Matthew Riggs in San Angelo, TX
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:00:22 +1000
From: "Graham L Sanders" <craftbrewer at bigpond.com>
Subject: Craftbrewer Sponorship
G'Day All
Well with the wet season well and truly broken here in Nth Qld, I now have a
swamp instead of a good ol Aussie backyard. You know when Huey sends her
down up this way when wild life photographers come to visit the back of the
house to take pickies of all the wildlife. Even the crocodile man, baby on
the shoulder, paid a visit.
But I am out of lurk mode due to Pats request for sponsorship of the HBD.
The lack of aussies on this digest was due in part to the success of the
HBD.
Its formula was the receipe for the Oz Craftbrewers site
(www.craftbrewer.org) and I can say with confidence that by following the
HBD's formula, we have become the most dominant brew site in Australia, if
not the Southern Hemisphere.
But we have never forgotten our mother site. I for one dont miss reading it,
and do contact many of the posters when I need brewing advice (yes its true,
even the "Brewing Guru of the North" needs advice, as if only occasionally).
And its much of this technical knowledge that we take back to our website
and digest and inform Aussies brewers, even if they dont like what they
hear. So be it malt to melanoidans, starch to sucrose, the advice we get
perpetuates thru-out the wide brown land.
So we are sending to the HBD $70.00 Australian as sponsorship, about $50.00
US as a vote of thanks. But hang onto that little aussie battler. The rate
your dollar is falling, shouldn't be long til it will buy a lifetimes
support. But in a shameless plug, we couldn't make this offer it wasn't to
our sponsors, such as David Cryer Malt, and Country Brewer (just visit our
website to see the links). Its sponsors like these that allows all this
independant advice to get out to the brewing public, and we thank them for
not only their support, but their confidence in allowing independant
thought.
And like Pat, our "all Seeing Brewing Oracle", David Lamotte keeps the whole
thing running together seemlessly.
What is the one overlying thing we have best picked up from the HBD. Easy
independant advice will further the hobby. And we should support any-one who
advances the hobby.
Shout
Graham Sanders
On Behalf of OZ Craftbrewers
www.craftbrewer.org
Oh, when the Crocodile Man paid me a visit, he asked me about his stunt with
his baby and feeding the croc. As we actually live in croc country it was
only natural he visited for advice. I told him where he went wrong. But I
told him his next stunt was far more dangerous. "Steve" I said "Feeding a
croc with a baby in you hands has some dangers, but feeding Michael Jackson
with your son in hand is far too dangerous to even think about".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:58:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: ATTENTION: Those using email authentification services...
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your thinking center...
Folks, I know spam is a huge pain in the dupa; however, if you
have set yourself up on one of those SPAM killing systems that
require human authentication in order for the mail to proceed to
your inbox, you can no longer receive the HBD. If
you are on one of these services,
the HBD receives the bounce message asking to authenticate. The
HBD, being a machine process cannot comply.
To rectify this, you can either manually enter the HBD address
(homebrew-request at hbd.org is the addrress it mails from) in your
list of acceptable addresses, or you can unsubscribe your
address, and read the HBD on the web.
Thanks!
- --
-
God bless America!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor at hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
- Arlo Guthrie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:46:02 -0500
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
Subject: Re: Special roast and victory malts
Michael from Middleton, WI asks:
>I have a recipe for a brown ale which calls for special roast
>and victory malts, neither of which I can find. Are equivalent
>amounts of brown and biscuit malts reasonable substitutes?
The Briess Malting Company web site has the following
descriptions for each of these malts. The Victory name is
a registered trade name and carries the "R" with a circle
around it on their site:
Special Roast is a fully malted product that receives
additional processing designed to contribute a "biscuit"
(pronounced English) flavor to beer.
Victory Malt is a fully malted product which receives
additional processing. It is designed to contribute a
warm, toasted, nutty flavor to beer.
We Make the Beer We Drink!!!
Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, MI
(2.8,103.6) rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:51:00 -0500
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: uh-oh/If you start me up
Wes writes,
> Well, it certainly seems I have Mr Alexanders total attention.
Aww - not even close yet Wes. I have a soft spot for you and your partner
and anyway it's bad form to "beat up" on a guy who can't put up a fight.
1/ ====
> I am not an expert in yeast or the mechanics of fermentation which is why
I
> talked to a fermentation professional. I am going to stick with his input.
FALLACY: argumentum ad verecundiam" or "appeal to authority". "It must be
so because some expert says so".
Instead let me suggest that you examine the data or at least the results of
people who observed experimental data. Any undergrad text and dozens of
university websites cover the basics of enzyme catalysis and kinetics. Look
specifically for the development of the Michaelis-Menten(M-M) eqn. In
brief enzymes are catalysts and in theory one molecule of invertase will
eventually convert a ferment full of sucrose solution. More invertase will
increase the rate of conversion, but not the amount of sucrose hydrolyzed.
As I posted in a long series of enzyme kinetic posts a few years ago
M-M:
v0 = d[P]/dt = k2 * [E0] * [A] / (Km + [A])
The *RATE* at which sucrose is hydrolyzed ( d[P]/dt ) is linearly related to
the initial amount of enzyme [E0].
This is uncontested, basic, enzyme kinetics 101 that you refuse to accept
Wes.
2/====
> Googling up a string of commodity market quotes and simplistic shipping
> costs without understanding how all this works in practice was always
going
> to be risky - especially from the comfort of the old favourite armchair.
Wes first claimed that my sugar pricing was for the US domestic market
price. I pointed out using a USDA website that verified it was world market
price. Now Wes impugns my information based on the notion that I googled
it up from an armchair.
FALLACY: "argumentum ad hominem" or arguing against the person rather than
the facts. I have a dream, that one day I'll post to a digest where I will
not be judged by the URL of my search engine but by the content of my
argument. .. ' has nothing to do with the merit of the argument.
I've given Wes a lot of openings to post on his area of expertice. What are
the bulk prices of malts, sugars and syrups in Oz Wes ? What are the real
costs of shipping ? What are local tariffs and price supports like ?
Instead Wes provides no data and presents no germain rebuttal except to
proclaim he is right and my esttimates "risky"..
3/====
> Many of the original malt houses were brewery owned
> and in some cases co-located. Today we find most of the maltings
operations
> near the principal growing areas, but still focused on suppling the mostly
> state capital based breweries.
Now Wes seems to argue the reason for plant co-location is historical rather
than current shipping economics as previously stated. I find that
completely believable.
4/===
> We
> plan to do a similar exercise using a basic Coopers kit [...] - one
> with granulated supermarket cane sugar and the other with Trimoline ...
I'd sincerely appreciate hearing about that Wes. I expect you'll see
similar cidery flavors for both, but who knows. Can you describe
Trimoline in more detail than "invert sugar".
I'll post a little more on enzymes shortly.
-S (riskily riding a secretarial chair ;^)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:46:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Edward Seymour <eseymour at yahoo.com>
Subject: Need help in updating Brewery
Greetings Beer Guru's
I have taken a little sabbatical from home brewing
and wish to return. My current system is an
all-plasticelectric brewery. This serves me quite
well. What I wish to do is automate it. This could be
using a
computer, pid. magnetic pump, rims, shims, etc. . .
Does anyone have a web page that has instructions for
automating their brewery (Automate your Brewery for
Dummies)? I am one of those geeks that got a degree
in business and economics, and have no idea what a pid
does, or how to set one up. I am leaning towards a
computer based system as I have an old Pentium III
system that sitting around taking up space. It
doesn't have to be simple, but it has to be through.I
have friends that are into computer hardware/software
that I can tap for knowledge, but I need to know what
everyone else has done so as to not re-invent the
wheel.
Regards,
Ed Seymour
Hamden CT.
eseymour at yahoo.com
brew web page:
http://www.geocities.com/eseymour/brewery.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:58:15 -0500
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
Subject: Scottsdale Brewpubs
Will be in Scottsdale, Arizona next month for only two days.
What are the brewpubs I HAVE to visit?
I have the following as a preliminary list"
The Unlikely Cowboy
Papago Brewing
Are either of these a can't miss? Are there others??
We Make the Beer We Drink!!!
Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, MI
(2.8, 103.6) Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 12:08:16 -0500
From: "Urban, Michael J, WCS" <mjurban at att.com>
Subject: RE: Victory & Special Roast
>Michael in WI sez:
>I have a recipe for a brown ale which calls for special roast and
victory malts,
>neither of which I can find. Are equivalent amounts of brown and
biscuit malts
>reasonable substitutes? I'd like to follow the recipe for a change
before
>freelancing like I normally do.
You will probably hear this from lots of folks, but these are both
Briess malts,
and should be widely available. The Briess website
(http://www.briessmalting.com/bmcindex.htm) lists them both under
"Special
Processed Malts". It also shows Victory as a registered trademark, but
not Special Roast.
They are available at Heart's Homebrew here in Orlando, and Heart's does
a
pretty large mail order business. http://www.heartshomebrew.com
regards,
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:35:55 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: drying malted grain
bruce asks about drying malted grain
"Any good ideas out there?"
I saw a home-made dehydrator made from a small window unit air-conditioner
once. It was used to dry lumber in lieu of a kiln. He had it mounted
inside a small shipping container. You have remove the internal ducting and
reverse the air flow so that the air goes through the evaporator and then
through the condenser. It warms the air overall, but also strips much of the
moisture out when it cools the air first. You rig the duct so that it
recirculates the air in the dehydrator "box", and rig a hose to drain the
condensate away. I don't think it needs to run continuously, but it
wouldn't take long to dry the malt if you put it in trays with screen
bottoms, stacked and spaced.
Regards,
Mike Sharp
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 12:38:15 -0600
From: "Pat and Debbie Reddy" <reddydp at earthlink.net>
Subject: Sanitation Practices and the common Homebrew Resources
Hello all,
Perhaps some of you experienced brewers out there can shed some light on
this issue. I've scoured the typical internet resources as well as some of
the more popular home brew bibles in search of some in depth discussions on
the topic of sanitation but have yet to find the answers I seek. I have an
understanding of the difference between clean, sanitary, and sterile so
don't go there please. What I am looking for are some examples of your
cleaning and sanitation practices. Particularly....
What does it take to create a "clean and sanitary work surface"? - a phrase
so common in books and other references. Is wiping down the countertop with
a Star San solution, C-Brite, or Iodophor with a damp sponge acceptable?
When I clean and sanitize a piece of equipment, a spoon for example, and set
it on the above mentioned sanitary surface, just how long could it typically
sit there before I should sanitize it again? I realize that working
outdoors in my garage is probably less sanitary than in my kitchen, but I'm
just looking for a general idea/rule of thumb.
The no-rinse agents available sound great but geez, do you know how long it
takes a spoon to air dry? I've got a mash to stir every 15 minutes or so.
If I stir, clean, sanitize, then air dry I won't be stirring for 30 minutes
or more in some cases.
And in the case of the "must rinse" sanitizers, is rinsing with hot (140*)
tap water acceptable? I've read where it is definitely not, and I've read
where it is perfectly fine.
I've been brewing for several years and haven't had much trouble with
infection, possibly because of the strong yeast starters I pitch. But I may
be tossing a 10 gallon batch of my favorite ale tomorrow night and I can't
attribute the funk in this beer to anything but infection.
Please, if you'd be so kind, answer these questions as best you can, or even
better, describe some of your own cleaning and sanitizing practices.
Thanks.
Pat Reddy
- ---
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Version: 6.0.564 / Virus Database: 356 - Release Date: 1/19/2004
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 12:25:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Agnor <cagnor at emerald.ucsc.edu>
Subject: starter aeration and stuck fermentation
Howdy folks,
I've had a rash of stuck fermentations lately (for example an IPA
with 90% Pale malt 5% wheat 5% 40L crytal mashed at 150F with OG 1.060
fermented with Wyeast #1028 London at 66F finishing with SG 1.022, and
similarly high FG of 1.020 with a 50% Pilsner malt 50% wheat malt
hefeweizen of OG 1.055). From tasting the beers, the fermentations are
clean, but the beer sweeter than I'd hoped or like.
I feel like I've checked out most or all of the usual suspects for stuck
fermentation.
Quantity of yeast - I've grown up smack packs in 1qt. starters
Aeration - I aerate for 30'-60' minutes with an aquarium pump
Fermentation temps - I've got a chest freezer with temp control and
fermometers to monitor the temp. Doesn't seem like the culprit to me.
Nutrients - I'm an all grain brewer and don't *think* this should be a
problem.
Any insights suggestions on how to improve attenuation of my beers would
be appreciated.
One possibility that occurred to me is starter aeration. I don't usually
aerate my starters. My standard procedure is to pour a quart of canned
sterile wort into a 1/2 gal. jug through a funnel and then add the
yeast. My thinking was that the splashing of pouring the canned wort
into the jug provided enough aeration. Is it possible that this doesn't
provide enough oxygen and is stressing the yeast prior to introduction
to the main wort and resulting in poor attenuation?
TIA
Cheers,
Craig Agnor
Santa Cruz, CA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:13:40 -0500
From: "Seymour, Edward C" <ESeymour at SIKORSKY.COM>
Subject: Need help in updating Brewery
Greetings Beer Guru's
I have taken a little sabbatical from home brewing and wish to
return. My current system is an all-plastic electric brewery. This serves
me quite well. What I wish to do is automate it. This could be using a
computer, pid. magnetic pump, rims, shims, etc. . . .
Does anyone have a web page that has instructions for automating their
brewery (Automate your Brewery for Dummies)? I am one of those geeks that
got a degree in business and economics, and have no idea what a pid does, or
how to set one up. I am leaning towards a computer based system as I have
an old Pentium III system that sitting around taking up space. It doesn't
have to be simple, but it has to be through. I have friends that are into
computer hardware/software that I can tap for knowledge, but I need to know
what everyone else has done so as to not reinvent the wheel.
Regards,
Ed Seymour
Hamden CT.
eseymour at yahoo.com
brew web page: http://www.geocities.com/eseymour/brewery.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 00:38:06 GMT
From: victorsv at juno.com
Subject: Propane cooker conversion to NG
I have a Camp Chef single burner propane cooker and would
like to convert it to natural gas. I would appreciate any
posts that would help me accomplish this. Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:10:01 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at ieee.org>
Subject: er; Splenda -- Is it Fermentable?
Todd in Qatar asks,
>Will yeast ferment Splenda?
Splenda is dextrose & maltodextrin & sucralose. The dextrose(glucose)
component is fermentable. The amount of dextrose you'd add via Splenda in
order to substantially sweeten a beverage would be small - maybe 8% or 10%
of a beer priming dose. You may get a very little bit of refermentation but
a trivial amount.
>Wonder if it can be used to sweeten cider?
I believe it's possible. I had/have some concerns about sucralose stability
in acidic conditions, but the mfgr (Johnson & Johnson) claims it's stable.
J&J is a class act and is probably right.
>I tried it this week in my tea and honestly couldn't detect an aftertaste.
Yes, it's the best tasting of the manufactured non-nutrative sweeteners.
Very sucrose-like in flavor. It's just an opinion, but I think aspartame
(Equal) is equally neutral in flavor and gives a sort of smooth warming
touch to alcoholic beverages that works well. The disadvantage of
aspartame is that it cannot be used for cooking - it breaks down at high
temps unlike Splenda. I prefer Splenda for general kitchen use and
aspartame as a cider/wine sweetener Haven't used it in beer and it's a
minor preference issue.
-S
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4458, 01/22/04
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