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HOMEBREW Digest #4336
HOMEBREW Digest #4336 Sat 30 August 2003
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
John Palmer/Beer Haze ("Chad Stevens")
electric element control (Alan McKay)
Re:Electric Kettle Control ("Martin Brungard")
RE: Electric Kettle Control (Bill Tobler)
Re: gluten free beer ("Spencer W. Thomas")
Old Foghorn yeast ("Strom C. Thacker")
Electric Kettle Control (=?iso-8859-1?q?Joris=20Dallaire?=)
My First Brew (Kevin Wagner)
Batch sparge ("Adam Wead")
End of fermentation, bubbles (Christopher Swingley)
Re: All RIMS'ers and those who use pumps ("Martin Brungard")
Re: Chiller Storage (Travis Dahl KE4VYZ)
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Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:08:37 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi@cox.net>
Subject: John Palmer/Beer Haze
Mr. Palmer, one and all:
Being the cheap bastered that I am, I don't own any brewing books.
Everything I know, I've learned from John Palmer's web book. You are
certainly on my top ten brew dudes list.
Read your Beer Haze article in Zymurgy today, well done. And for those of
you who haven't, one of his references, Bamforth's "Beer Haze" paper from
the JASBC is a must read.
Anyway, I've got a minor nit I was hoping you and a few of the more
knowledgeable might weigh in on, and it's one of those that have had me
teetering on the fence for years.
You state on page 30, third column, second paragraph of your Beer Haze
article, "I interpret this to mean that any protein rest for your mash or
enzyme clarifiers in your wort are probably not a good idea. In addition,
misuse of the right clarifiers can also be trouble."
Taking the second and third points first, Sheean et al., 1999, Improved
Methods for Determination of Beer Haze Protein derived from Malt,
Proceedings of the 9th Australian Barley Technical Symposium,
www.regional.org.au/au/abts/1999/sheehan.htm
show silica hydrogel, chillproofing enzyme, and tannic acid, adsorb,
denature, or bind both protein Z and LTP1 from 3 to 16% thus reducing foam
stability. These stabilizers had a far greater impact on haze forming
proteins (43-67%) than the foam stabilizing proteins. Budmillercoors would
probably argue that their use is fine. But I certainly agree with you in
that, I'd rather leave the protein profile of my beer intact and have more
stable head retention and shelf life, with a little haze.
My problem is with the no protein rest assertion. The primary Albumin
derived protein responsible for head retention seems to be Lipid Transfer
Protein 1 (LTP1). Sorenson et al., 1993, Tech Quarterly ot the Master Brew.
Assoc., www.mbaa.com/TechQuarterly/Abstracts/1975/tq75ab03.htm
demonstrated that native LTP1 has poor foam stabilizing properties. It
appears that only after enzymatic defragmentation and denaturation that
occurs in wort boiling that LTP1 becomes a foam promoting agent. Marion &
Douliez, 1999, www.regional.org.au/au/abts/1999/marion.htm
This appears to be the case with some other amphiphilic proteins.
There is no question but that an excess of enzymatic action results in a
diminution of foam stability (Kapp & Bamforth, 2001) But when some foam
stabilizing agents become active only after enzymatic activity, and FAN
production is so important to yeast health, and I haven't had a stuck sparge
since you taught me to do a gum breaking rest (a little lower temp but
certainly in the protease active ballpark), and...to suggest that "any
protein rest (is) not a good idea." Yur killin' me!
Comments?
Just thought I'd rouse your yeast a little. Nice to see you in Zymurgy and
thanks again for your invaluable web friendly resource.
Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego
- -----------------------------------------------------
You are among the few who observe:
- --If wisdom were offered me with the proviso that I should keep it shut up
and refrain from declaring it, I should refuse. There's no delight in
owning anything unshared.
E. Philips Barker
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:32:15 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay@neap.net>
Subject: electric element control
Most of the guys in our club use a fancy PID/SSR combination.
Then our resident "cheap bastard" went to the scrap yard and
got a couple stove controllers for free - works great! You can
view his "Junkyard Brewery" here :
http://tinyurl.neap.net/index.php?k=6ec5f30d5c4271f38ef59869860a5e13
Complete with closeups of his stove controllers.
I like the idea so much I saved all the controllers from our old
stove when we bought a new one a month ago, and that's what I'll
be using for the electric kettle I'm currently building.
Of course, I also bought a PID and SSR, but plan to use that to
make a nice RIMS ;-)
- --
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site
"Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is"
- Denny Conn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:47:48 -0400
From: "Martin Brungard" <Martin.Brungard@trow.com>
Subject: Re:Electric Kettle Control
Pete Calinski is correct that an electric stove controller (infinite switch)
is just an on/off switch with an internal heater to adjust the on/off cycle
time.
There is another option for simple electric control though. An electric oven
temperature controller has an external temperature probe to control its
simple on/off switch circuitry. This is not nearly as good as a PID
controller. But, at least there is a true temperature input for this
controller, unlike the infinite switch. At $40 to $50, an oven controller
will run about twice the cost of an infinite switch though. This should be a
good solution for a sparge water heater system, but it may still create
scorching when used in a boil pot or RIMS. And if you really wanted to
control an electric boil, I think you would have to go with a PID controller.
Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:31:57 -0500
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Electric Kettle Control
Dave asks what is a good way of controlling your boil in an electric kettle?
I've been using an SSR Driver, or Pulse width modulator, which is powered by
a 555 timer circuit. This idea was borrowed/copied from CD Pritchard's home
page. http://hbd.org/cdp/boilnew.htm
The controller works great, much better than a stove top controller. I
wasn't able to build one on my own, but through a brewing friend, I found a
guy who likes to build electronic stuff on the side, and he built me one for
$50 US. It's powered by 12 or 24 VDC, and controls the power to a DC
controlled SSR. I've got pictures and a diagram if anyone wants it. I can
also pass on the guy's email address. This is built from the ground up, so
he can make it any way you want it. I'm not affiliated, just got good
service.
Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:39:59 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: gluten free beer
Johnathon wrote:
>On r.c.b., there are several people who brew GF beers in order to
>work around celiac. Here are two recent threads to look at:
>
>... 2 very long URLs snipped ...
>
>Sorry for the long hyperlinks. ...
>
There are several services on the web that will shorten links. I've
used both MakeAShorterLink (http://makeashorterlink.com) and Snurl
(http://snurl.com). Here are snurled versions of the two long links
that Jonathon posted: http://snurl.com/26ov and http://snurl.com/26ow
=Spencer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:50:14 -0400
From: "Strom C. Thacker" <strom@wort.org>
Subject: Old Foghorn yeast
I've been on the Anchor tour several times (not to be missed if
you're in the SF area -- make a reservation, though). I'm pretty
sure they use the same yeast for all their ales (Liberty, Porter,
Wheat, Foghorn, etc.). They use a different, lager yeast only for
Steam.
I did a little digging into Anchor Liberty a couple of years ago, and
at that time there was speculation that Anchor uses what is sometimes
marketed as "Canadian" ale yeast. I think Wyeast calls it American
Ale II, no. 1272 (see
http://smurman.best.vwh.net/zymurgy/wyeast.html). Might be worth a
shot.
Hope this helps,
Strom
Newton, MA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:20:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Joris=20Dallaire?= <jorisdallaire@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Electric Kettle Control
<Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:45:30 -0700
From: yax <yax75@shaw.ca>
Subject: Electric Kettle Control
What is a good way of controlling your boil in an
electric kettle? I
was
thinking about using just a stove rheostat, or else
using two switches
in line of the element. With both switches on 240 V
would be supplied
and with just one switch on only 120 V would be
supplied. I have heard
of some people using PID controllers, but this seems
like overkill. Any
suggestions would be great though. >
I use one of those, specifically the oven one, but
fitted with a stove-top style scale (numbered). I buy
them used for 1$CDN in a salvation-army type of place
who happen to refurbish appliances. You might want to
check these, as a new one here will cost around
40$CDN.
The pilot light is a must. I use it to evaluate the
ratio between on and off times. But you have to wire
it in parallel with the element, so it is on when the
heater is. Do not use the pilot terminal built in the
controller, as in that case the pilot will always be
on since you do not use the thermostat. I bought 220v
pilots at a surplus electronics store.
I control two elements with these, a 4500w and a
3000w. The control is rated 15 amps, so the 4500w is a
bit over with 18.75A, but i had no problems so far.
Consumer products are always under-rated for safety
and reliability reasons.
When the two heaters are on, i can assure you it's
boiling in a record time. However i got no scorching,
due to a good flow of liquid in the chamber. To
maintain the boil in my 10-gallon setup, i set the
3000w at aroud 70%.
While i must admit i *dream* of a PID controller, i
think too they are a bit overkill. My setup is simple
and reliable, and while they're is a bit of
approximation when i brew, the results are always
good.
Good luck!
Joris, brewing in Canada
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:38:25 -0700
From: Kevin Wagner <kevin.wagner@watchmark.com>
Subject: My First Brew
Greetings,
Last night I opened the first bottle of by first brew. It is a German
Wheat Ale extract kit and was, err... unremarkable. It spent 4 days in
primary, 5 days in secondary and 14 days in the bottle. I have some
questions.
- It has almost no hop aroma or flavor - almost cloy. I used
Hallertauer pellets in muslin, 1oz at 15min and 1oz at 45min of a 60min
boil. Not enough? Wrong timing?
- The OG was 1.04 and FG is 1.02, an ABV of 2.75%. I expected 4 to 5.
It's texture is very thin. Did I rack and/or bottle too soon?
- There are tiny irregular bits that do not settle. Is this break
material? Can I filter it ahead of fermenting?
On an up note, it has a lovely color and very nice carbonation.
I'm ready to start my next batch and would like the next one to be
better, any relevant tips?
Thanks,
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:50:42 -0600
From: "Adam Wead" <a_wead@hotmail.com>
Subject: Batch sparge
Dear collective wisdom,
Has anyone out there in the homebrew world used batch sparging much?
I introduced a couple of friends of mine to homebrewing earlier this year,
and they've already gotten into all-grain. I've been brewing for a year
doing partial-mashes only.
My friends are using a technique called batch-sparging, where after the mash
is completed, the liquid is drained completely and the mash tun refilled
with hot sparge water, then drained again. They're accomplishing this in a
rectangular Coleman cooler with a perforated oval copper pipe at the bottom
to server as the drain. The advantage is you don't need a hot liquor tank
and a sparge arm, but the disadvantage is a loss of mashing efficiency, I'm
assuming, because you're not able to thoroughly rinse all the sugars out of
the grain.
When my friends first read about this, it was recommended that the initial
grist weight be increased slightly to compensate for the reduced efficiency.
However, they found that they were getting a high enough efficiency rating
that they didn't have to add the extra grain. In fact, the gravity of the
first batch they made was so high, they had to split it into two batches to
bring the gravity down to the appropriate levels
Has anyone else had good success with batch sparging?
It got me to thinking... My friends made a wheat beer and a porter, both
with good attenuation and so forth. So, how does batch sparging, versus
traditional sparging, affect wort composition, if at all? I thought there
might be less of your adjuncts and specialty grains rinsing out because
you're not sparging for very long. But, if you're mashing correctly,
shouldn't the ratio of primary grist sugars to all the other sugars be more
or less the same? They were using a simple single temperature infusion
mash. Maybe it would be different if they were attempting a more complex
mash schedule where a sustained mash-out was more crucial.
Anyway, if somebody has some theories/experiences, I'd like to hear them.
Until then, relax, and have a homebrew.
Adam Wead, Bloomington, IN
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:13:39 -0800
From: Christopher Swingley <cswingle@iarc.uaf.edu>
Subject: End of fermentation, bubbles
Greetings!
Following up on the recent discussions of counting bubbles and
determining the end of fermentation, I can confirm that bubbling is not
a good measure of what's going on with fermentation as the beer reaches
final gravity. I brewed a classic American cream ale in early July, and
brewed an old ale in early August. Both were racked from the primary
fermenter into a secondary after about one week of fermentation. At
first, neither showed any activity in the secondary, but after a week or
so the fermentation locks began slowly bubbling.
And they're still bubbling today. A week and a half ago I decided to
take gravity readings to see what was going on. The cream ale, whose SG
was 1.048 was down to 1.010 (now a month and a half after pitching), and
the old ale went from 1.072 to 1.022 (three weeks after pitching).
But they were still bubbling, and unwilling to risk bottle bombs, I left
them. This morning I checked the gravities in each, still bubbling
fermenter, and they were identical to the readings a week and a half
ago. Both tasted excellent, so the bubbling isn't something nasty.
Whatever it is, my beer is done and I'll be bottling both batches
tonight.
Anyway, I'll be getting a wort thief in my next brew order to make
getting gravity readings easier, and won't be paying much attention to
bubbling when it comes time to judge whether it's time to bottle.
YMMV, of course,
Chris
- --
Christopher S. Swingley email: cswingle@iarc.uaf.edu
IARC -- Frontier Program Please use encryption. GPG key at:
University of Alaska Fairbanks www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:36:59 -0400
From: "Martin Brungard" <Martin.Brungard@trow.com>
Subject: Re: All RIMS'ers and those who use pumps
This is a response to a question posed by Parker Dutro with an answer by Jeff
Renner about a noisy pump and crud build-up. Jeff mentioned the brown
deposits that coat the interior of the pump that require disassembly and
soaking to remove.
I had an interesting episode during my last brew, when my pump stuck. This
happened right at the beginning of the mash run-off, so it was inopportune to
say the least! I had to do a quick disassembly of the pump chamber. I found
that a coating of gunk had partially seized the impeller to its steel shaft.
That little motor didn't have the torque to get it going again.
A quick soak in a lye solution helped remove the gunk and the impeller
rotated freely again. The episode only cost me about 15 minutes, so it
wasn't a big deal.
The thing I want to relate here, is that occasional disassembly of the pump
chamber and a lye soak is a good idea. That brown protein coating that Jeff
mentioned does not seem to be affected by clean-in-place products like PBW.
I use PBW regularly in my system. The copper piping is nice and clean, but
the plastic pump parts still retain their brown coating. The lye solution
seems effective in removing that gunk. And since the gunk gets into the
bearing area of the impeller, I recommend disassembly of the impeller from
the shaft to allow the solution to get in there and do its cleaning.
Just a bit of advice based on my recent experience.
Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 20:49:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Travis Dahl KE4VYZ <dahlt@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Chiller Storage
Rick asks how to store a CF chiller without destroying it.
Well, I can't answer for a CF chiller as I don't have one, but my homemade
immersion chiller I keep from getting crushed/bent out of shape by
dropping it in one of the 5gallon buckets that I use for (bottling,
fermenting, sparging, sanitizing, etc.) They're about the right size and
work perfectly.
-Travis
A2, MI
[1.8, 98.3] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4336, 08/30/03
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