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HOMEBREW Digest #4314
HOMEBREW Digest #4314 Mon 04 August 2003
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
RE: Top Twelve ("Steve Ford")
Slow-starting Alt, 18-year-old beverage, 12 most influential (BrewInfo)
aerating after fermentation (BrewInfo)
Desert Island Sixpack (Alexandre Enkerli)
Re: Tops in Homebrewing ("Richard Schmittdiel")
Re: Top Twelve ("eska")
Re: authentic malt/cheaper kegging options (BrewInfo)
beer colour estimators/Top Twelve (BrewInfo)
Alt ("Patrick Hughes")
Art v Science (12 rounds no decision) ("John Sarette")
peated malt ("Buck Wilke")
CAP question ("Steve Arnold")
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Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 00:01:34 -0500
From: "Steve Ford" <spare@kc.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Top Twelve
Good list Louis,
I can think of a good regional group as well ... the Ragers, Susan Ruud,
Jeff Swearengin, Bob Rescinito ... and I'll leave the list open for people
who contribute a great deal in the plains states.
For your national list my additions would be Louis Bonham (for his
writing, speaking and contributions to the AHA and MCAB), Rob Moline (for
all he contributes in addition to his work on the Lallemand Scholarship) and
Jeff Renner (outside of Pierre Cellis, I can think of no individual more
closely identified with a single beer style).
Steve Ford
KC Bier Meisters
Overland Park, KS
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 02:03:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: brewinfo@xnet.com (BrewInfo)
Subject: Slow-starting Alt, 18-year-old beverage, 12 most influential
Regarding Mel's slow-starting Alt... underpitching seems to have
been your problem, although it could also have been temperature shock
to the yeast. You want to make sure that your starter is pretty close
to your wort temperature. Attemperation is what Lallemand calls it
and they describe it on their website. Basically, it's just doubling
the starter volume with the wort into which the starter will be added.
If the temperature difference is still a bit high, double the starter
again after 10 or 15 minutes. I'd also like to point out that I would
have used Munich in place of that 2-row (and probably in place of the
Vienna too) and I would have used three times the bittering hops for
a proper Duesseldorfer Altbier bitterness. Aroma hops would make it
in line with a Sticke, not an everyday Alt. Flavour hops are un-
necessary if you use the proper amount of bittering hops, because
with 3 ounces of hops, you're going to get some spillover flavour
no matter how long you boil.
I'd go for either an 1.100+ Barleywine or an 1.100+ mead. One
responder suggested Red Star Champagne yeast, but that's not
necessary for high alcohol level. You can get 11%+ with wine
yeasts that result in a much better-tasting and far less dry
mead. I prefer Premier Cuvee and have gotten over 11%abv with it.
Finally, I'd like to add Dave Miller and Greg Noonan to the
list of 12 most influential people in homebrewing. The first
book I read was Charlie's, but I soon followed up with Dave's
and Greg's. While those of you who have been reading my posts
over the years may be surprised that I would suggest them, since
I've often been critical of their books. In the grand scheme
of things, however, Charlie's, Dave's, and Greg's books taken
together help one sort out what procedures are probably right
and what procedures are probably wrong. Eventually, I ended up
reading professional brewing texts, but probably would have
never gotten that far without these three guys.
Another person that must be mentioned is Rob Gardner, the
original founder of the Homebrew Digest, back in 1987(?).
Personally, the posts of Steve Alexander and AJ deLange have
been very influential on my knowledge of homebrewing, far
more so than just about anyone except George Fix.
Al.
Al Korzonas
Homer Glen, IL
roughly 200miles and 270degrees AR
http://www.brewinfo.com
P.S. Did anyone comment on my expired fridge? I didn't see any
responses... or did I miss them?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 02:17:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: brewinfo@xnet.com (BrewInfo)
Subject: aerating after fermentation
Ooops! I forgot to address the important question of the "stuck"
mead. No... don't aerate. Aeration after even a moderate amount
of fermentation will result in a lot of aldehydes from oxidised
alcohols and will probably increase your diacetyl (hmmm... maybe
not unpleasant in a mead...) considerably. Just leave it and let
it ferment. I will drop slowly for months. One thing that I
would not have done is add the acid blend. I had a discussion
with Chuck Wettergreen about this and another one with Ken Schramm.
The concensus is that acidity impedes fermentation. Ken suggested
adding the acid after fermentation (and only if needed... some
honeys are naturally acidic). Chuck went one step further and
said he adds calcium carbonate to *lower* the pH whenever the
fermentation slowed to a trickle. He claims that he could get
a mead to ferment out very quickly this way. I don't know what
this does to the ultimate flavour or the longevity of the mead,
but I did taste some very drinkable mead of his that was very
young.
Al.
Al Korzonas
Homer Glen, IL
http://www.brewinfo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 08:39:22 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli@indiana.edu>
Subject: Desert Island Sixpack
"mark_t@ix.netcom.com" mentioned this, in the context of the top
personalities in HB universe:
> I suspect this will be like the desert island sixpack that turns into
> a case...
Well, this must be a cyclical one, but maybe it's the time for it.
A six-pack would clearly be too small so we could make this a row of
six taps for bottomless kegs. Problem is, some beers are better
bottled...And if the idea is having the beer that lasts the longest,
we'll think of beer that keeps well instead of our actual favs.
So...You're stranded on a desert island. What beer do you miss most,
any category? And it doesn't need to be a *tropical* desert island.
Could be a temperate one. And it doesn't need to be "the most
delicately crafted beer ever," just the one that triggers
reminiscence...
As Julie Andrews would say: "These are a few of my favorite beers"
Gillespie, tasted in Inverness on the day of the 1997 Spa F1 Grand
Prix. (Not the best beer but we had a good time)
(Local brewpub) Dieu du Ciel's Maple Scotch Ale, tasted the first time
there. (Eventually turned me to homebrewing)
Duchesse de Bourgogne, tasted at a local bar on the waiter's
recommendation. (Turns out he was right)
(Local brewpub) Cheval Blanc's Saison, which they had recently. (Great
aroma)
Leffe brune with mussels and fries at a Belgian restaurant (Moos in
Quebec City). (The mussels were great...)
A bottle of Trois-Pistoles (Unibroue) from a convenience store in a
small village (Sainte-Luce, Qc). (Seems it *does* improve with time)
Lex, in Montreal
[555.1km, 62.8] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 12:41:14 -0700
From: "Richard Schmittdiel" <schmitrw@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tops in Homebrewing
Out here in So. Cal, one would have to include John Daume, the owner of a fine
LHBS, and the sponsor/patron saint of the Maltose Falcons. John's homebrewing
history goes back at least as far as that of the Falcons, back to 1974.
Rich Schmittdiel
Possum Holler Brewery
(1935.7, 264.6 AR)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 19:08:16 -0500
From: "eska" <eska@isunet.net>
Subject: Re: Top Twelve
Egads... what a Pandora's box. Maybe Louis should have expanded the
nominations to 20 or 25 like college sports or made the list personal
favorites. Everyone mentioned deserves a nomination, but I can only speak
for myself. My personal top picks would include Greg Noonan, Al Korzonas,
Charlie P., any Brewrat but mostly Skot, Gump, any Classic Beer Style
writers, Dr. Fix, Bill Pfeiffer (Ken Schramm can stand in now), Ray Daniels,
and all of the nameless folks who have quaffed, scored or otherwise
critiqued my beers and my lovely wife for sacrificing her kitchen in the
begin when I was just learning and for kicking me out to the garage!
Everyone listed has been most influential in teaching me how to brew better
beer. A honorable mention to Louis for his personal impromptu lecture on
no-sparge brewing via Gump's cell phone one cold February night a couple of
years ago.
Eric
lost in BFE, no know Rennerian coordinates.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 00:54:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: brewinfo@xnet.com (BrewInfo)
Subject: Re: authentic malt/cheaper kegging options
Stuart writes:
>Secondly, in reading Fix & Fix's O'fest book - which stressed the importance
>of authentic ingredients - I developed a dislike for recipes that subscribe to
>this Malt Nazism. Why must people insist on Moravian malts, noble hops etc...
>
>What is everyone's experiences with "authentic" vs. local ingredients? Are you
>a Malt Nazi, or a sacraligious heretic (like me)...?
>
>But, more than that, what makes you go authentic or local. For my part, I'm
>relatively isolated, and a (poor) student meaning that I can't afford
>authentic. Does anyone choose local deliberately in anachistic (or pioneering)
>fervour?
If I could brew, say, an Altbier, with malt that was made in Wisconsin
that tasted like it was made in Germany, I would. For me, it's the results
that are important and not how much I paid for the malt. However, I have
yet to find a really really good Munich malt other than those from Europe
and, incidentally, I thought that the DeWolf-Cosyns Munich was good until
I tasted beer made with Weyermann's. Similarly with Pale Ale malt. I can
make tasty bitter with US 2-row, but it doesn't have as biscuity and
pastry-like flavour as I get with Munton's Maris Otter malt. I'd say that
the difference between the garden variety Muntons Pale Ale malt and the
Pale Ale malt made from Maris Otter barley is small, but still noticeable,
altough, I guess it could have been relative freshness... the difference
was small enough so that freshness could have played a role. When I first
started all-grain, I brewed a series of batches using 100% Pale Ale malt
from various maltsters. The range of flavours was stunning. Note that
the worst of the bunch was the DWC Pale Ale... the resulting beer was
terribly bland. Had I added 10% crystal or, say 5% Biscuit or Aromatic,
I would think that the resulting beer would have been quite tasty. I
still bought DWC, but used it sort of as a white canvass for painting
beers with other malts... just a very neutral base malt. I don't think
DWC is made anymore, by the way... can anyone confirm. I'd really only
be sad to see their Aromatic and Biscuit malts disappear.
***
I've seen a bunch of emails recently on cheaper kegging solutions. I
would like to add one comment: don't get a 2-gauge regulator. I, personally,
think they are a waste of money. The second gauge goes on the high-pressure
side of the regulator and tells you the pressure in the tank. For gasses
like nitrogen or oxygen, where the tank is all gas, it might be useful,
but for CO2, which is a liquid in our tanks, it really only begins to
drop when all the liquid CO2 has become gas and that's just a few pints
from empty. I judge my tanks' fullness by weight (I have the empty weight
(including regulator and hoses) written on the tank so all the excess
weight is liquid CO2. A 20# tank weighs 20# more when it's full of CO2
than when empty.
Al.
Al Korzonas
Homer Glen, IL
http://www.brewinfo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 02:18:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: brewinfo@xnet.com (BrewInfo)
Subject: beer colour estimators/Top Twelve
Actually, since beer colour is mostly transmitted and little or none
of the colour is reflective, what you need is a colour measurement
scale that is also transmitted. Dennis Davison (who seems to have
fallen off the planet... where the heck are you Dennis!?), about
10 years ago, developed the Beer Color Guide. It was actually a
piece of photographic colour film that was exposed such that it had
7 or 9 (I forget) squares of colour on it that corresponded to
the colour of beer transmitted through a "standard" US competition
plastic cup. These cups varied a little, but the differences were
slight. You would hold up the beer and the guide and match the
colour. You then read off the SRM (or was it Lovibond?). Dennnis
made several hundred of these and probably gave out as many as he
sold. Eventually, he grew tired of it and stopped making them.
If he is still in touch with the homebrewing community, he might
be convinced to give out his methods for making the guide.
***
Top 12...
After I posted my thoughts on the Top 12 most influential people
in homebrewing last night, I thought about it some more and
realized that I had to completely re-think my previous opinions
on this topic. What I present below is my list of the most
influential people in homebrewing. These are the people that
influenced *me* the most or, more accurately, influenced my
little corner of the homebrewing universe the most. Rather
than alphabetise... I'm going to go out on a limb and post
them in order of influence (in my opinion, of course). Here
goes:
1. Charlie Papazian - I think that no person on the planet did
more to popularize homebrewing.
2. Dave Logsdon - Founder of Wyeast. Before Dave, we had only
a half dozen poorly-kept dry yeasts available.
3. George Fix - George was the first to bring professional
brewing knowledge to the average homebrewer... he inspired
me to seek out answers in pro texts and to create experiments
if I couldn't find an answer in books.
4+5. Dave Miller & Greg Noonan - Although Charlie's "Relax, Don't
Worry" attitude is great for beginners and perfect even for some
expert brewers, I identified more with a scientific and
analytical approach. Dave and Greg's books opened my eyes to that
aspect of brewing. Although their books contained some errors,
between Charlie's, Dave's and Greg's books, you could sort out
what was probably right and your brewing experience made up the
difference when information was lacking or all three disagreed
on a topic.
6. Michael Jackson - Perhaps had Michael continued to write
about court proceedings and not switched to writing about beer,
someone else would have taken his place, but then maybe not. I
feel that there's a good chance that we would not have as wide
a scope of knowledge of beer styles nor an idea of the incredible
variety of beer flavours possible in the world if not for him.
Personally, I'd probably just be brewing Bitters and not tried
brewing anything else.
7. Rob Gardner - Founder of the Homebrew Digest. Nuff said.
8+9. Pat Babcock & Karl Lutzen - If not for them, the HBD might
just be history.
10. Pat Baker - Co-founder of the BJCP. Without the BJCP, I don't
think that brewing would have improved as much as it has. I've
been judging for about 10 years and I've seen the quality of
competition beers increase dramatically. I attribute that primarily
to the feedback that entrants get from BJCP judges.
11. J.X. Guinard - Author of "Lambic" in the Beer Style Series.
He's the first person I knew of that really went into meticulous
detail on the complexities of beer... the fact that it was Lambic
made his job that much more difficult and that much more beneficial
to us (most beer styles don't have 1% of the complexities of
"production" of Lambic).
12. Jackie Rager - Jackie was the first person that I knew of that
took a quantatative approach to bitterness. His were the first
bitterness estimation formulae that I'd seen and they influnced
the quality of my beers greatly.
13 through 24. Steve Alexander, Dr. Tracy Aquilla, Jim Busch,
A. J. deLange, Dave Draper, Pierre Jelenc, Sam Mize, Cindy Renfrow,
Charlie Scandrett, Mike Sharp, Glenn Tinseth, and Andrew Walsh.
These people are in alpha order because it's difficult to say who
taught me more over the last 15 years of reading HBD. If you took
what these 12 people wrote in HBD and edited it into a book, it would
be better than any brewing text currently out there. I've been out
of touch for about four years and there may be others that are of
their caliber (I've only seen a dozen posts from -S, and I can
already see that they are in the same league), so I apologise if
I've omitted someone on HBD who has been as forthcoming with top
quality brewing information as this dozen.
I'd like to add an honorable mention to Jack Schmidling and Dave
Burley. Without them, I would have had far less fun on the HBD
(and they taught me more than I'd like to admit to ;^).
Al.
Al Korzonas
Homer Glen, IL
http://www.brewinfo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 08:41:09 -0500
From: "Patrick Hughes" <pjhinc@eriecoast.com>
Subject: Alt
I have been to the Fatherland and fell in love with Alt. Frankenheim is an
average axample of a generic Alt . But I have to offer an opinion that many
American craft brews are over the top. And many homebrewers and Judges have
palates that have been abused by these beers. Any exceptional German beer
or any beer IMO] is about balance. In my experience the flavors are
balanced, complex , and subtle. Even in an Alt with a high IBU value.
I drank from a fresh of keg of Alt in an unofficial after hours keg changing
ceremony in Germany [ probably the best beer I have ever drank ] and have
been trying to replicate that taste ever since. I recently made the Sticke
Alt recipe in BYO from a couple of months ago and that was the closest I
have come. I would like to see Capital Brewery in Wisconcin make an Alt as
in my limited experience they make some of the best authentic , well
balanced German beers in the U.S.A.
Patrick Hughes
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 11:02:28 -0500
From: "John Sarette" <j2saret@peoplepc.com>
Subject: Art v Science (12 rounds no decision)
- ----Great Scott, man, they're
BUBBLES, get over it.-----
If you understand bubbles, you understand the expansion of the universe.
this brings you close to the UNKNOWABLE
quick am I an artist or a scientist?
John
(told by a Phil Prof "but this is easy for you, you're a math major" >not
true< and by a painter "poets and physicists are alike, they are both
concerned with the basic structure of things"
"Labor is prior to, and independent of capital.
Capital is only the fruit of labour and could never have existed
if labor had not first existed.
Labor is the superior of capital and deserves
much the higher consideratiion."
A. Lincoln (1st marxist er Republican president)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:11:27 -0400
From: "Buck Wilke" <brewer@valkyrie.net>
Subject: peated malt
hello brewers,
peated malt seems to be getting hard to find locally. i do have a smoker and
would like to do my own. does anyone have a "recipe" for smoking malt.
exactly what is peated malt? is it smoked with peat moss? or wood? what kind
of wood? how long is it smoked? and at what temp? i have tried to find these
answers to no avail. anything that i have found is very sketchy at best.
thanks,
buck wilke
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 20:42:52 -0500
From: "Steve Arnold" <vmi92@cox-internet.com>
Subject: CAP question
Greetings fellow beerlings! Long time lurker, first time poster here.
I recently made a CAP in accordance with Jeff Renner's article in
Brewing Techniques. Can I just tell you, Jeff that it turned out
WONDERFULLY! Thank you for all you have done for this style. It was
probably the best beer I have brewed in my 3.5 years of brewing. Truly
a slice of Americana Heaven. This was my first attempt at a true lager
(as opposed to Kolsch), and I am hooked. I will be brewing many more
lagers in the future.
The beer had a slight grainy sweetness which I found to provide a
delightful balance to the 25 IBUs. The problem has come only in the
last week. After about 4 weeks in the bottle, that treasured "grainy
sweetness" has disappeared. What is left is still a wonderful beer, but
I am bugged that it has changed. My suspicion is that it is caused by
the fact that I have been storing the bottles at room temperature
instead of lager temps. What do you all think? Any one else have a
similar problem with this or any other lager?
Thanks,
Steve Arnold
Fort Smith, Arkansas
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #4314, 08/04/03
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