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HOMEBREW Digest #4309
HOMEBREW Digest #4309 Tue 29 July 2003
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
re: Re: No Spam and beer culture ("-S")
re: State Run Liquor/Colour Software/Taxation & S.G. ("-S")
interesting spam (Jeremy Bergsman)
RE: Beer Culture in Scandinavia (Jonathan Royce)
CO2 tanks on Ebay? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
Betadine (Michael Hartsock)
Home Grain Roasting with Popper (Alexandre Enkerli)
Ukrainian beer scene (Robert Marshall)
First All Grain Batch (croll01)
Storing Star San solution in CF Chiller (Timothy Burkhart)
american lager dry malt question (jOsh tAusCheK)
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:08:42 -0400
From: "-S" <-s@adelphia.net>
Subject: re: Re: No Spam and beer culture
Bill NoSpamWible posts ...
<<
The previous poster stated that Canada doesn't have a
problem with binge drinking on their college campuses.
First, I'm not sure that's true. He also stated
(incorrectly) that England has a problem with binge
drinking, but doesn't have heavy taxes or any kind
of prohibition. He obviously doesn't know much about
the UK.
>>
I those comments were from two different posters- Alexandre and myself and I
think Bill has misinterpreted both. Canadian students aren't getting a
general pass as a model of alc use, but Alexandre noted that Quebec college
students weren't so avid about drinking to excess as Indiana students.
Extrapolate at your own risk Bill.
I wrote that Britain has about 3X the beer tax as a typical US state,
(30-some pence a pint). My point was NOT that UK beer tax was low (it's
not), but that it is not intended to curb drinking in trends that correspond
with prohibitionist sentiment. It's been relatively constant aside from
wartime increases. In contrast some Scandi countries (you can find details
on the web) have attempted to impose prohibitive alc taxes (tho the EU is
making such policies difficult). One had a 30 year long prohibition
period in the early 20th century.
The UK seems to have avoided much of the neo-prohibition (and original
prohibition) movement sentiment. (Canada had it's own prohibition in the
early 20th century btw. ). I can see on the web that neo-prohibitionist
occurs in the US and to some extent in Australia. Why not the UK ?
-S
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:13:00 -0400
From: "-S" <-s@adelphia.net>
Subject: re: State Run Liquor/Colour Software/Taxation & S.G.
Travis writes ....
<<
I find it interesting that people seem to be claiming that the state
run liquor stores in Sweden are unique to the area and a part of the
problem.
There are actually several states where any hard liquor has to be sold
through the state run liquor stores (Washington, and New Hampshire come to
mind). And the ones in Washington State practically keep bankers hours.
>>
.I believe that 17 states have all liquor distributed by the state! Some
like Ohio permit private stores to retail the liquor, but the distribution
is limited in a most ridiculous manner by the state.
> Someone also mentioned the fact that English bitters are low in gravity
> because of taxation. This was certainly true initially, but since those
> taxes went into effect well ove a hundred years ago, I suspect that even
> if they were removed, the S.G. would not go up significantly.
Taxes ...... they have completely shaped the face of beverage alcohol.
The English taxation of beer dates to the crusades, when a 'Saladin Tithe'
was imposed in 1188 to pay for the crusades (let's not give our US
politicians any ideas). It's said that in 1694 London gin was cheaper
than beer due to taxation. Originally malt was taxed on England and
Ireland - this is the reason Guinness used unmalted roast barley. It also
explains the use of sugar imports from the West Indies in ales. Later in
the mid 1800 a hops tax was imposed too. At some point (when?) the
English taxed potential alcohol of the wort by a rather obtuse formula.
In most of the US this isn't the case. I suspect the strength tax
explains why most non-mega brews in the US tend to run around 13-13.5P and
vs a plethora of UK ales at or under 11P. IPAs dropped to more drinkable
SG(from up around 17-18P as I recall) probably due to marketing reasons, but
dropped a bit further due to taxation.
Taxes have virtually created both of the planet's great whisk[e]y
traditions. Britains beer tax imposed on Scotland circa 1745 and Alexander
Hamilton's 1791 whiskey tax ... but that's another forum.
-S
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:34:13 -0400
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremy@bergsman.org>
Subject: interesting spam
OK, perhaps this is not appropriate, but I think it may be of interest.
This morning I received an email from someone I didn't know with the subject
"New Page 3.htm". At this point these two criteria usually mean I delete
without even looking at it, but I opened it due to a slip of the finger.
Before I could delete it my eye caught the word "keg" so I figured maybe it
was to me. Here is what it said:
> Irene Morris
> Sales Manager
> morris@hostex.com
>
> my stout into the new keg and everything is
> well and good.
>
> That night as I lay in bed, my mind wanders. I begin to wonder exactly how
> much of the amber I lost in all the times I hooked up empty kegs to the
> other side of the line. I wonder. Hmmmmmm. Should I look or leave well
> enough alone? Hmmmmm.
>
> The next morning, before work, I make up my mind. I'm going to open up the
> amber's keg and look. I do so and, holy cow,
Then there is a MIME attachment which I'm guessing is a virus or something.
The interesting thing about this is that everything after the first 3 lines
is from a post to the HBD on Jan 31. Is this the new spam--robots
harvesting/creating material to appeal to small numbers of recipients? I
bet the subject line is from some hbd archive or mirror and the next one
will be more on target. Perhaps the author of that bit could sue for
copyright infringment.
Fight spam!
- --
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremy@bergsman.org
http://www.bergsman.org/jeremy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 05:56:50 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan@woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: RE: Beer Culture in Scandinavia
Just catching up after a short vacation and I wanted to comment on some of the
recent posts concerning Scandinavia (particularly w.r.t. Sweden) and the
drinking habits there:
In #4304, David Radwin pointed out the high rate of taxation on alcohol in
Sweden. While his tax rate tables are correct, I believe his relative ranking
of the Scandinavian countries may be off by one: as I understand it, Norway's
tax is even higher, which is why Norwegians make frequent trips to border
cities like Stromstad to buy alcohol, tobacco, groceries and anything else that
they can fit in their vehicles.
In #4305, Steve Alexander accused me of "high-jacking the topic [of beer
culture and US adolescents]". (I stand guilty as charged, but in the roughly 2
years that I've been reading HBD I hadn't noticed that there was a strict
policy of topic adherance.) In any case, my point was simply to expand upon the
reference to 3rd century annual Nordic festivals with some information about
the current situation in order to avoid any confusion that might link the two.
I apologize if Steve felt it was irrelevant to his post.
However, it was great that Steve provided the original reference to Engs'
thesis in his reply, although I wish that he had paraphrased her work a bit
because the author provides several theories on the causes of binge drinking
episodes in Northern Europe, where grain-based alcohol was the drink of choice:
"Ales and beers were perishable and needed to be quickly consumed, there were
often lean years without much available alcohol, limited supplies were consumed
by the elite, and the long dark nasty winters in cramped quarters may have
fostered depression and stress resulting in heavy drinking when alcohol was
available. With limited alcohol a "feast or famine" situation may have occurred
leading to sporadic bouts of heavy drinking whenever any alcohol was
obtainable." (This is in contrast to Mediterranean cultures where wine was the
beverage of choice and available year-round due to its ability to be stored for
extended periods.)
-S also provided some information about binge-drinking rates (binge drinking
episodes as a percentage of all drinking occasions per year) that indicate that
Sweden is #2 behind the UK. Of course, this statistic is somewhat biased, since
the total number of drinking occasions per year is not cited. (If I binge drink
once a year and that is the only occasion that I drink during the annum, then
my rate would be 100%, whereas if I binge drink the same amount but consume
alcohol in moderation daily, I'm at less than 1%. ) That said and without
additional data, the conclusion that "Obviously there is a considerably more
binge drinking in far N.Euro as opposed to Italy, Germany & France." is valid
only if pre-conditioned by the phrase "as a percentage". (One should also note
that the study defines binge drinking as "5 or more standard drinks in a single
occasion", a definition which Steve "wouldn't agree...represents binge
drinking.") In my experience, most Swedes are quite aware of their alcohol
consumption rates and limit its use to weekends and vacations, which seriously
brings into question this particular study's ranking of binge drinking.
Two more points from Steve's post. The first is the "Swedish/Finnish ferry
trips", and again I must disagree with Steve. In the ferry trips that I've been
on, David Radwin's description of "binge buying" is much closer to the reality.
The second is his comment that "Taxation and control of alcohol in
Scandanavia...have clear prohibitionist overtones". Of course, anyone who's
spent significant time in Scandinavia knows that *EVERYTHING* is (relatively)
highly taxed, including clothing, income and gasoline. I'm not convinced that
the tax on alcohol is as much a reflection of a "prohibitionist" attitude as it
is one of a socialist economy which views alcohol as a luxury, rather than an
evil.
Finally, in #4306, Pete Calinski recounted a tale about Systembolaget and how
it closes early on Friday afternoons, thus resulting in binge buying which he
concludes "encourages excessive binge drinking".
Well, Pete, you'll be happy to know that whoever oversees Systembolaget must
have felt the same way, because over the past three years or so the stores have
begun opening on Saturdays. They also did away with the "order at the counter"
system and went to a self-service format with check-outs, similar to a grocery
store. Of course, now people are able to browse the store, rather than purchase
what's on their list, and most Swedes I've spoken with feel that this has
increased how much they purchase since they can impulse shop, but that's
another topic...
Happy brewing,
Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:22:15 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer@umich.edu>
Subject: CO2 tanks on Ebay?
Chip writes:
>Don't forget e-Bay as a source for equipment. I've seen CO2 tanks go for less
>than half of what you quoted! I just saw two 2.5 lb. tanks go for $24.99.
>
But watch out for the shipping charge! The "tare weight" on my 5lb tank
is 11+lbs. If you end up shipping that cross country, even UPS ground
rate, you'll add significantly to the cost of the tank.
=Spencer
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:31:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze@yahoo.com>
Subject: Betadine
Does anyone know if diluted betadine solution can be
safely used as a sanitizer? The digest archives
reveals many questions about this, but no answers.
Anyone with any expertise or experience to this
effect?
Michael
Columbia, MO
=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:56:35 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli@indiana.edu>
Subject: Home Grain Roasting with Popper
Quick query, this time.
Did anyone try roasting grain with a popcorn popper? It works with
green coffee beans (Maillard reaction and all) so it might work with
grain, if the temperatures are appropriate.
Alex (so, where's the Rennerian calculator now?)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:01:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm@hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Subject: Ukrainian beer scene
The Kiev Post has ran some articles on the commercial
beer scene in Ukraine recently, and figured I would
drop a note to the list for those interested.
UKRAINIAN BEER: IT TASTES GREAT AND IT'S MORE
FULFILLING Quality control and increased varieties
lead to a boom in sales
http://www.kyivpost.com/dayandnight/feature/17239/
BEST OF BEER PARLORS (brewpubs)
http://www.kyivpost.com/dayandnight/bestkyiv/17236/
HOW TO GET MORE OUT OF YOUR BEER
There's more to beer than just drinking it...
http://www.kyivpost.com/dayandnight/toftw/17235/
BOOD-MO!! (cheers!)
Robert
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:04:36 +0000
From: croll01@comcast.net
Subject: First All Grain Batch
Hi,
I have been lurking here for some time but this is my first post, so please
bear with me. I made my first attempt at an all grain batch this past weekend,
and I think I may have rather botched the job. As of this morning there is
absolutely no activity in the fermenter. At the risk of making this an overly
long post I will describe my recipe and process, and perhaps someone here may
offer some suggestions regarding what I might do to salvage this batch, or next
time to achieve better results.
Recipe: German Alt
4 lbs 2 Row Pale Malt
4 lbs Vienna Malt
1 lb Wheat
1 oz Spalt Bittering
.5 oz Spalt Flavor
.25 oz Spalt Aroma
Process:
Let me begin with a caveat that I know I did several things wrong or halfway or
not at all. I was approaching this batch as more of a test run for my
equipment and as a means of getting a feel for how all grain brewing works
rather than as an attempt at a perfect beer. But I digress...
Heated Strike water to 175, doughed in with all the grain, added a little cool
water to bring mash temp to 154, mashed for 1 hr. Ending temp was a little low
at 146. I did not check the mash pH or water chemistry, I was hoping this
would sort of take care of itself, nor did I check for starch conversion. My
guess is this is where I went wrong. To be honest I know nothing about the
water chemistry here in Richmond, VA (actually south of Richmond, in
Chesterfield County). Perhaps there is another brewer from my area on the list
who may be able to provide some information regarding water chemistry for this
area.
In any case I heated the Sparge water to 175, recirculated the mash a half
gallon at a time (no fancy RIMS here), lautered, and drew off the wort into the
boil kettle.
I boiled for 1 hour, with three hop additions, one at the beginning of boil, a
second at 30 minutes into the boil, and a third 55 minutes into the boil. I
then hooked up my counterflow chiller and drew off the wort into the
fermenter. A couple things to note, I did _not_ see coagulated protein, but
there was trub at the bottom of the boil kettle, I am not sure if it was just
hops or hot break as well. It looked like a little too much junk to just be
hops, but I am not sure, never having seen the process before. I let the wort
fall from the outlet of the chiller to the fermenter so it should have been at
least somewhat aerated. The wort was properly cooled when it exited the
chiller, so I pitched the liquid yeast, covered, and put the fermenter in the
old fridge I use for temperature control. The controller is set to 60 degrees
and the thermometer I have inside the fridge reads between 56 and 60,
appropriate for the swing. The stick-on thermometer on the fermenter reads
about the same.
Unfortunately I have seen no bubbles so far from the air lock and when I pulled
it out of the grommet this morning to check for activity I could see no signs
of fermentation at all. No foam whatsoever. The wort did smell sweet, pretty
much like my extrzact brews have smelled before they fermented. I detected no
infected smell.
Any ideas as far as where my major stumbling blocks might have been? Would it
be worth it to try some dry yeast, just to see if it would work, or did I miss
something somewhere and end up with unfermentable wort? I apologize for the
length of this post, but any help would be greatly appreciated, I hope to have a
better time with the next batch. Private replies are welcome.
Thanks, and keep on brewin,
Mel Croll
Richmond, VA (sorry, don't know my Rennerian Coordinates)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:57:59 -0700
From: Timothy Burkhart <tmburk@comcast.net>
Subject: Storing Star San solution in CF Chiller
All,
I know this has been addressed but gave up digging in the archives.
Is it ok to store normal strength water/Star San solution insided of
the copper tubing in my new counter-flow chiller between uses?
I have just purchased and used for the first time. Feeling uptight
about keeping any nasties out of it between uses.
TIA
Tim Burkhart
New to Portland, OR
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 22:20:05 -0500
From: jOsh tAusCheK <tauscj55@vaxa.cis.uwosh.edu>
Subject: american lager dry malt question
a homebrew supply shop i recently found on the internet
(http://www.williamsbrewing.com/) sells a dry maly called american lager,
which contains corn. I Was wondering if anyone else knew of another place
that sells this kind of product as I never heard of it before. I also never
have done all grain or partial mash so i have no experience in producing this
myself so products like these would be very helpfully to me, the extract
brewer I still am. And if there might exist more kinds of malt extracts ??
Any information is appreciated.
Josh
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #4309, 07/29/03
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