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HOMEBREW Digest #4258
HOMEBREW Digest #4258 Fri 30 May 2003
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Igloo mash tun (John Lovett)
English Dry Ale- yum... (darrell.leavitt)
Re: Peach Puree (sbgns)
RE: Quick Carbonation (Bill Tobler)
Re: peach puree ("Rob Dewhirst")
Fermentation, racking and lagering ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
Hoover Universal Kegs ("Stephen Silverthorne")
Big Strange NB Brew I (New Brunswick, Canada) (Daniel Chisholm)
RE: Goin' to Boulder ("Leonard, Phil")
re: Goin' to Boulder ("Mike Racette")
Re: Water, hardness, and alkalinity ("Martin Brungard")
Boiling (AJ)
Label archives (Jim Wilson)
Places ("Patrick Hughes")
Robert considers all grain (J & B Gallihue)
post, ("Howard")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:17:07 +1000
From: John Lovett <John.Lovett@amcor.com.au>
Subject: Igloo mash tun
I've been using a 10gal Igloo for a mash tun for some time - I love it.
There are some pics of it and my false bottom, made from a plastic bucket
lid on the Aussie Craftbrewing website:
http://www.users.on.net/lamotte/gear/JLovett/index.html
Cheers.
John
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 07:15:57 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt@plattsburgh.edu
Subject: English Dry Ale- yum...
I just transferred and English Dry Ale from primary into secondary, and
was so pleased with the behavior of this yeast that I thought I'd share:
The recipe was:
1 lb CaraAmber
1 lb Wheat
1 lb Belgian Aromatic
10 lb Pale Malt (Golden Promise)
2 stage infusion (148, 158..)
first runnings were 1.082
boil gravity was 1.055
Original Gravity was 1.064
gravity going into secondary was 1.018 (about 6% abv)
hops were .5 oz Columbus at 60
same at 30
same at 15
Total IBU = 53.3 (using Promash)
Yeast was wlp007 English Dry Ale
This is the description from the Whitelabs site:
===start quote===
Clean, highly flocculant, and highly attenuative yeast. This yeast is
similar to WLP002 in flavor profile, but is 10% more attenuative. This
eliminates the residual sweetness, and makes the yeast well suited for
high gravity ales. It is also reaches terminal gravity quickly. 80%
attenuation will be reached even with 10% ABV beers.
Attenuation: 70-80; Flocculation: High; Optimum Ferm. Temp: 65-70
====end quote====
I have been experimenting with maize and various other ways of making
cleaner/crisper ales and lagers, and to my pleasure this yeast has created
a very crisp / dry taste to the ale. This was my second use of this
particular yeast, and I think that I will use it one more time....and I
will certainly purchase more....a good yeast for dry ales...
Happy Brewing!
..Darrell
Plattsburgh,NY 44 41 58 N Latitude
73 27 12 W Longitude
[544.9 miles, 68.9]Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:14:41 -0500
From: sbgns@wideopenwest.com
Subject: Re: Peach Puree
on Wed May 28, darrell.leavitt@plattsburgh.edu says:
"I made a Peach Ale, using the Oregon Peach Puree"
Darrel,
My wife has requested a Cherry Raspberry Wheat, so I brewed
a 15 gallon batch of American Wheat and will be drawing 5
gallons out of the fermenter to "enhance" or "corrupt"
(depending on your point of view) the beer with 2 can's of
the Oregon Fruit Puree (Cherry), and some whole raspberries.
I have previously used Vintner's reserve Cherry wine base
for the cherry addition. The VR product is basically whole
cherries in juice, so this is my first attempt with fruit
puree. I did some HBD searching just yesterday, and found
some results very similar to yours.
You say:
"It was in primary for about 7 days, then when I transferred
into secondary I added the tin can of Oregon Peach
Puree...."
You are correct...the secondary would be the preferred time
to add the puree.
"And, by the way, the peach flavor was not real strong..."
Most of the info I found indicates that a mild fruit flavor
is what you would expect with 1 can in 5gal, and I would
think peach is milder than many. I plan to use 2 cans of
the cherry puree for a more pronounced flavor.
"Is there a better way to use this puree?"
I plan to do it just like you did, but I'll use 2 cans for
the 5 gallons and wait for the puree goo to settle out so I
don't get it in the keg. (some of the posts in the archives
complained that it took a long time for the puree to settle
completely)
Regards,
Stacy Groene
Columbus, OH
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:16:11 -0500
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Quick Carbonation
I've been using Steve Jones's quick carbonation method he described in
digest #4112 back in December. http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4112.html#4112-4
I'm having pretty good results, still trying to figure the times and temps.
My beers are usually coming right out of the largering box at 30 degrees,
so I just cut the times back a little. I still tend to over-carbonate
though. Anyway, to my question, if one should want to force a 2.5 gallon
keg, I was wondering if the times get cut or maybe this doesn't rely on
volume as much as pressure/temperature?
Having fun in the brewery,
Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:06:26 -0500
From: "Rob Dewhirst" <rob@hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: Re: peach puree
> Now there is a huge clump of yeast, and mostly peach puree (I believe) at
> the bottom of each bottle...
I brew about 6 batches of apricot beer a year with the Oregon fruit
products.
In my opinion, you did exactly what you should have done with regards to
adding the puree, if you want a genuine fruit flavor and aroma.
In my experience, the fruit flavor declines over time, and beers designed to
bring out the fruit should be lighter bodied to begin with. If you still
have fruit in the bottle and the fruit flavor is not very strong I would say
lighten up the recipe a bit, cut back on the hops.
It is not necessary to "rouse" the fruit puree to get a good flavor.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 10:16:12 -0700
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson@hotmail.com>
Subject: Fermentation, racking and lagering
Back in April, the brewer formerly known as Steve Alexander (-S) provided a
response re a question about underpitching and went into a good deal of
appreciated detail on pitching at the intended ferm temp (which I now do),
pitching big ( I use a 1st or 2nd generation starter of 1 or 2 liters) and
(!) racking off the yeast after the first day to remove the beer from the
trub, cold break, dead yeast etc. While I usually rack at day 2 or 3 with a
well-pitched and fermenting ale as soon as it slows enough to NOT blow over
in a carboy, I am wondering what -S and the colloective feel would be the
best protocol for lagers where (I believe) this is active fermenting yeast
on the bottom.
I currently leave my lagers in the primary much longer than ales (ie 1-2
weeks) before racking off the yeast into a carboy, allowing a 2 day rise to
room temperature for diacetyl rest, and then slowly reducing to lagering
temp back in the fridge over a couple days.
As an unrelated question, for lagering temps I have read in several sources
to lager as close to freezing as possible, while a tech at Wyeast suggested
that a temp of 40-43F (4-6C) would allow the yeast in a 2278 Czech pils to
reduce the (overly strong) sulfur aroma better. It never did lager out
until I scrubbed with a few carbonate/bleed (and bleed, and bleed, and
bleed) cycles with C02 in the keg. Does yeast metabolism actually play a
role in the lagering phase, and if so is around 40F for 6-8 weeks a good
all-around standard for lagers??
Steve Dale-Johnson
Brewing at (1918, 298) Miles Apparent Rennerian (I'm west of Jeff ...
shouldn't the degrees be negative???)
Vancouver, BC, Canada.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 13:20:29 -0400
From: "Stephen Silverthorne" <s_silverthorne@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Hoover Universal Kegs
I have a 50L keg made by Hoover Universal that I would like to use as either
a mash tun or hot liquor tank or fermenter. It has a rubber base and also a
rubber top. The handles are part of the rubber. There is a bead of glue
around where the rubber meets the steel but this is loose. It appears that
the rubber top is held on by the collar for the dispensing equipment so I am
worried that if I cut a large hole in the top of this keg, the handles will
no longer be attached.
Does anyone have any experience with using this type of keg in their home
brewery? Also of some concern is whether the rubber
will stand up to the heat required for use in brewing but another brewer
pointed out that when this keg was in normal use, the brewery probably used
heat for sanitizing it, so that is less of a worry.
Thanks.
<- Stephen Silverthorne
Montreal, QC, Canada
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 14:50:09 -0300
From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc@nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Big Strange NB Brew I (New Brunswick, Canada)
FWIW - just in case there are any HBD'ers who'd like to join us, I'll be
hosting a Big Brew at my house Saturday, 7 June 2003. Anyone who'd like
to join us, please email me for a little info-blurb....
- --
- Daniel
Fredericton, NB Canada
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 13:24:35 -0500
From: "Leonard, Phil" <Phil.Leonard@dsionline.com>
Subject: RE: Goin' to Boulder
If you have the time to get to Ft. Collins the New Belgium tour and
tasting afterwards is well worth it. I've been to many brewery tasting
rooms and New Belgium is by far my favorite. While you're there stop
in at Coopersmith Brewpub in the old downtown area.
Philip
[612 251.4 AR] Overland Park, KS
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 12:27:40 -0600
From: "Mike Racette" <mike.racette@hydro-gardens.com>
Subject: re: Goin' to Boulder
Boulder has lots of good beer - much better than Denver's selection imho,
but if I had to choose just one brewpub to go to it would probably be
Mountain Sun.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:18:11 -0400
From: "Martin Brungard" <Martin.Brungard@trow.com>
Subject: Re: Water, hardness, and alkalinity
Michael Hartsock posed some questions regarding his Columbia, MO water.
He boils his water for chlorine removal. He asks what the hardness and
alkalinity of his water is after boiling.
For chlorine removal, the boil time is only a few minutes. For chloramine,
the time must be increased. In either case, the amount of water boiled off
is minor. There are some chemical reactions that may occur due to the
boiling that could affect hardness and alkalinity. But, this probably isn't
a factor if the boil is short and other decarbonation and softening measures
aren't used. Boiling is not a very good chlorine removal option in terms of
time or cost, given the alternative removal methods. I prefer activated
carbon filtering. For about $40, you can have a carbon filter that will
serve you for a year or two, depending on use. Replacement carbon filters
are on the order of $20 or less. I notice that propane is now about $20 per
20lb tank. I bet that this extra boiling is costing at least a dollar extra
a batch. Who knows how much free time is worth. It all starts to add
up...maybe that carbon filter isn't so costly after all. And you won't have
to worry what the starting hardness and alkalinity of your water is after
filtering!
The water supply's hardness (148 ppm as CaCO3) is not really a problem, but I
notice there is a good bit of magnesium in the water (18 ppm). That is about
as high as I would like to go with a brewing water. I wouldn't add Epsom
salts to any style you're trying to duplicate.
The alkalinity of the water is fairly high, but that's easy to correct with a
little acid or hardening. I see that Michael frequently hardens with gypsum.
The amount he adds concerns me though. Several heaping tablespoons sounds
kind of high. I estimate that increasing the calcium concentration to about
150 ppm is about as far as this water needs to go. That is about 6 to 7
grams of gypsum or 5 to 6 grams of Calcium Chloride in 4 gallons of mash
water. I did some measuring a few years ago to find approximate volume
equivalents for this kind of stuff. I think that the gypsum weight above is
about 1 level tablespoon and the calcium chloride weight above is about 1
level teaspoon. Michael is likely overdoing the calcium and sulfate ions
with the amount of gypsum added. I don't recommend volume measures for these
mineral additions, get a scale that can get down to at least 1 gram accuracy
(0.1 gram is better yet).
I did an ion balance using the water report and can say that there is
probably a significant cation missing from the water report. I figure that
there may be sodium in the water. I figure its probably up in the 35 ppm
range for the ions to balance. That sodium concentration isn't too bad if
its true.
The reported pH (8.84) is very troubling. Its higher than most water
companies and water users like to see. Michael's pH meter reading (7.94) is
more in line with the normal. The reported pH is high enough that you can't
just assume all the alkalinity is from bicarbonate. I estimate that 10
percent of the alkalinity would be from carbonate if the reported pH were
true.
The other flavor ions (sulfate and chloride) are OK. Sulfate is a little
high, but it shouldn't be to bad. Those heaping tablespoons of gypsum
probably jacked the sulfate way up there though. Definitely don't use gypsum
to harden when trying to accentuate sweetness or maltiness.
Excepting for the alkalinity, magnesium, and sulfate content, I don't think
the water is too bad a starting point. Its softer than my water supply.
Have fun with it.
Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 21:40:23 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel@cox.net>
Subject: Boiling
For Mike in MO: For starters, as your total hardness is 148 and your
alkalinity less than this at 116 the permanent hardness is 148 - 116 =
32 ppm as CaCO3. That's the easy bit. It's a little tougher to guess
what your mineral content might be after the boil. As a general rule
"good" decarbonation will reduce the alkalinity to about 50 ppm as
CaCO3. One unit of hardness goes with each unit of alkalinity so the
reduction of alkalinity to 50 implies a loss of 66 units of hardness
meaning that the calcium hardness would also be reduced by 66 to 5 ppm
as CaCO3. In actulity the alkalinity will probably be reduced to more
like 70 or 80 (i.e. by 46 or 36) resulting in calcium hardness of 25 or
35. I'm assuming that some precipitation takes place as decanting is
mentioned. If the fullest decarbonation is desired (i.e. down to about
50) then add supplemental calcium chloride before boiling.
Your residual alkalinity is about 86 - not that high. You can probably
deal with that through the use of some high kilned malt rather than
decarbonation of the water. You can dispose of the chlorine/chloramine
by the use of half a campden tablet rather than boiling.
The only way to be sure of the post boil chemistry is is to run a test.
Hardness and alkalinity test kits can be had from several internet
sources or from an aquarium supply store.
68 mg/L is pretty healthy sulfate to the extent that most beers are
going to have accentuated hops bitterness. About the only way to beat
this is to dilute the tap water with distilled or RO water.
A.J.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:46:03 -0700
From: Jim Wilson <jgwilson@adelphia.net>
Subject: Label archives
There used to be a terrific commercial beer label archive at
ftp.stanford.edu but I can't find it or it's not there anymore. Spencer
points to ftp.funet.fi/pub/culture/beer/, but I can't gain entry to the
images directory where I think the labels might be. Anyone have an idea
where this great resource currently resides?
Jim Wilson
o \o
__o /\ /
`\ <> `\ `> `\ >
(*)/ (*) (*)/ (*) (*)/ (*)
I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 21:43:54 -0500
From: "Patrick Hughes" <pjhinc@eriecoast.com>
Subject: Places
I didn't get the original post for some reason, but it sounds like Scott is
looking for places in the Cleveland area? Rocky River Brewing Co. and Great
Lakes Brewery are within 20 minutes of each other . Great Lakes is now a
fairly large regional brewery [ west side of downtown] I don't think they
are in the micro category anymore but I don't know. They have been around
for a long time and are one of the nations premier breweries of any size.
They have tours, pub, store, tasting room. Rocky River is a small brewpub
brewing some excellant beers, many times as good or better then Great
Lakes. The head brewer there is great and always willing to talk beer. There
is a BOP/Pub in Strongsville about 20 minutes from Rocky River, they sell
good beer that they make and I hear they have a good beer bar but I haven't
checked that out yet. I could get more info if it is needed.
Patrick Hughes
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 21:39:55 -0400
From: J & B Gallihue <jgallihue@comcast.net>
Subject: Robert considers all grain
Robert Sandefer asks about igloo Mash Tuns. He is thinking about
experimenting with all-grain. Way to go Robert!
Many of us have used an Igloo-brand cooler as a mash tun and it has changed
our lives! You can get stuff designed for that cooler like a plastic
perforated disk and a mechanism for raining water down onto the top of the
mash. Visit your local homebrew store for details.
I used to do it that way. In fact, before that, I used to do it another way
that Charlie Papazian suggested.
Now I have a really big rectangular cooler from BJ's. I usually do single
infusion mashes (one temp). So I just mash in before bed. Come back in AM
to find temp pretty much the same then dump in the sparge water. The liquid
exits the cooler through a slotted manifold. The slotted manifold is made
from pvc pipe that has slots cut in it with a hack saw. Some of the folks
who have really been spiritually moved by this method have made websites.
Here is one:
http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/MashTun.html
I used to think sparging was a big pain in the mash. Now I just fill it and
forget it! Hows that for an infomercial?
Joel Gallihue
Columbia, MD
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 19:25:31 GMT
From: "Howard"<eveer45q2@verizon.com>
Subject: post,
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bD4=
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #4258, 05/30/03
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