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HOMEBREW Digest #4219
HOMEBREW Digest #4219 Sat 12 April 2003
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Oily, lingering... (Bev Blackwood II)
re: chloramines (David Radwin)
Wyeast ("David Craft")
drill bit for stainless (Jonathan Royce)
Re: What's a lager & where I brew (Mark Kempisty)
4 gallons, not 5 (Jonathan Royce)
'spurment with Coffee Stout (darrell.leavitt)
Re: Movin' On Up ("Michael Maag")
Re: Outdoor brewing (was Indoor boiling) (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
Re: where do you brew and what is in storage ("Roy Strohl")
Re: Wyeast - Ready or Not? (Matt Harrington) (David Towson)
Wyeast (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
Environmental brewing (Jim Bermingham)
wyeast (Michael Hartsock)
Heather Ale ("Jodie Davis")
What's in storage? (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
Re: slow fermentation/ low attenuation (Michael Hartsock)
This is not good. ("Roy Strohl")
Re: What's a lager? (Steven S)
Experimentation APA? ("PHILIP ROBINSON")
What's in the cellar? ("Philip J Wilcox")
RE: frozen hose (Brian Lundeen)
re: CO/the boil ("-S")
wow! thanks for the help with drilling stainless (summary) (Marc Sedam)
4 gal, not 5 ("Beer Guy")
Re: Outdoor brewing (was Indoor boiling) (DHinrichs)
Re: 4 gallons, not 5 (Jay Pfaffman)
Re: Keg Refrigerator ("Tidmarsh Major")
Wort Chilling in the Northern Winters (Jason Poll)
RE: Step drills ("Mike Sharp")
RE: contents of beer cellar ("Leonard, Phil")
Challenger hops (Jeff Renner)
THE 2003 UPPER MISSISSIPPI MASH-OUT! (allan.boyce)
Re: SWMBO (mjkid)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:36:23 -0500
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2@bdb2.com>
Subject: Oily, lingering...
> From: Hayes Antony <HayesA@aforbes.co.za> writes: (in a much edited
> form...)
> What is the likely cause?
Bad judges? Honestly... I have had the same beer score in the 20's
and take 2nd place Best of Show the same weekend at different contests
here in the United States. I think you need to collect a broad range
of opinions before you condemn the beer to oblivion. Different palates
detect different flaws. What is one man's nectar is another man's
nasty brew... Give it a broad sampling. You'll find a variety of
opinion.
-BDB2
Bev D. Blackwood II
http://www.bdb2.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:05:48 -0700
From: David Radwin <dradwin@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: re: chloramines
> From: "Peter Wadey" <pwadey@mimixbroadband.com.au>
> I have been checking out the chlorine/ chloramine removal thread on the HBD
> and thinking that I'd rather add Campden tablets instead of boiling for a
> few hrs (despite the person at Sydney Water saying 5 mins would do!) I
You could also use a carbon filter or ascorbic acid (vitamin C). See
http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4197.html#4197-12.
David
- --
David Radwin
news@removethispart.davidradwin.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:06:53 -0400
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Wyeast
Matt,
Open and pour it into a 16 oz or larger bottle or other vessel with an
airlock, add some wort and ramp it up more. You can never have too big a
starter in homebrew.
I use old or new (they are coming back in fashion) milk bottles with an
airlock. The stopper fits in just like a carboy.
David Craft
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 04:39:54 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan@woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: drill bit for stainless
Mark asks about making holes in stainless.
At my work, we use Unibits all the time to make holes in stainless.
However, our normal procedure is to use the Unibit to make a hole
big enough to fit the threaded shaft of a Greenlee punch through, and
then to make the finished hole with the punch. This provides a very
round and nearly burr-free hole. (A hole made with a Unibit alone will
require a fair amount of deburring, especially if the hole is intended
to be sealed using a rubber gasket or washer.)
Here's a link to the Greenlee holemaking page:
http://www.greenlee.textron.com/products/holemaking.html
Click on the first link "Holemaking Selection Guide". Page two has
a picture of the knockout punch that I'm talking about.
As for which bit to buy, my guess is that either will work fine. We
use the Unibits at work, FWIW.
Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:53:11 -0400
From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty@pav.research.panasonic.com>
Subject: Re: What's a lager & where I brew
I have been asked about the difference between ales and lagers and I
have answered as been already noted in past messages. But one thing I
add to those statements is "generally." I take a moment to let them
know, that there are exceptions to the general fermentation temperature,
fruitiness and crispness characteristics.
As I mentioned (A-A-A-ACHHHHHHHOOOOOOoooooooo) I brew outside and
specifically that is in the garage with at least one car door open.
I've brought my kerosene heater out with me, but if its below 30 F it
doesn't make a difference. If there is a wind blowing and its in the
20's there is only one word to describe the brew session; BRUTAL! In
those sessions, I typically mash and sparge in the kitchen and volunteer
my wife to help me carry out the kettle.
I have also had a frozen garden hose for my chiller but I discovered it
early enough. I hooked it up to the hot water at the laundry tub,
stretched out the hose and jumped on the the frozen sections to break
them up. Took a while but I was eventually able to blow out all of the
ice.
- --
Take care,
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 04:57:39 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan@woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: 4 gallons, not 5
Steve Hanlon wrote:
"my wort has been fermenting since the 4th in 4 gallons, not the full 5.
seems i got distracted when my 2 yr old son came home. in my rush to get
it out of the way, i forgot to add the final gallon.
"is my beer ruined? will it simply be very strong? please advise"
Others may disagree (and if they do, I'm sure they'll speak up) but I
can see no reason why you couldn't boil and cool a gallon of water,
then add it to the fermenter to make the intended 5 gallons. Since you
added ingredients intended for 5 gallons, you'll simply be diluting to
your original concentrations. There may be a minor opportunity for the
yeast to kick back in (if they stopped fermenting due to alcohol content,
which you'd be diluting), so after the water addition I would wait a day
or two before bottling to ensure that you won't have any bottle grenades.
Alternatively, leave it as a 20% stronger beer than intended and let
your "strong" beer help you through the remainder of spring/winter.
HTH,
Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:59:43 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt@plattsburgh.edu
Subject: 'spurment with Coffee Stout
When I posted a few days ago about the best way to get the Java into
a Mocha Java Stout, there were 2 main responses.
First, most agreed that the coffee should not go into the boil so as to
avoid that nasty boiled coffee taste.
The responses were split, however, as to the best way to get the wonderful
flavor of java in.
One approach was to add Coffee Liquor, at bottling, and to let the
sweetness of the liquor carbonate the brew,..ie adding no bottling sugar.
The other was to add various amounts of strong, freshly brewed coffee to
the bottling bucket, to bottle with corn sugar..
So, in the true tradition of the HbD 'spurment I decided to do both:
One half of the 5.5 gallon batch went into a Pig.
(by the way, I may revisit the discussion of Pigs vz those other small co2
systems in that the apparent higher price of the pig bags may just
disappear when you consider the size of the pig <2.25 gal> and therefore
the 1/2 reduction or better in price...for later post)
sorry for the diversion...
that portion that went into the pig was adorned with 3 cups of REAL strong
freshly brewed Mocha Java (Green Mtn Coffee Roasters) coffee. I ground
the beans real finely and filled the coffee maker as high as I could...
1/3 cup of corn sugar...
The other 1/2 of the batch went into the bottling bucket, added 1/2 of a
fifth of Coffee Liquor, bottled.
I will report on the results in a week or so. I am particularly
interested in : (1) the comparrison of java flavor in the finished beer
(2) whether the real Java, due to oils in the coffee beans,
will have a deleterious effect on head retention.
(3) whether the coffee liquor will carbonate the bottles,
or whether the added alcohol will challenge the yeast's
tolerance and not carbonate
(4) whether one can drink this all day and stay awake!
If anyone wants the recipe , I will send.
Happy Brewing!
..Darrell
Plattsburgh: 44 41 58 N Latitude
73 27 12 W Longitude
[544.9 miles, 68.9]Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:39:05 -0400
From: "Michael Maag" <MichaelMaag@doli.state.va.us>
Subject: Re: Movin' On Up
Mark asks about a new mashtun for 10 gal batches.
He says:
Currently I mash in a 5 gal SS pot with EZ-Masher .
I have a 10 gal Polarware kettle (no spigot or
anything) for boiling.
I had thought for sometime now that I would just get a
10 gal Gott w/false bottom & spigot .
But recently I've started thinking about the mash/lauter
tun (snip) This is a plastic tun with built in false bottom.
To which I reply:
I made a similar step. But I took my 10 gal Volrath boil
kettle and converted it into a mashtun. I use an
EZ-masher, just like you are already doing with your
5 gal ss pot.
That way, your tried and true brewing techniques will
not have to be changed much.
Changing to a non-direct-fired tun will mean you must
use hot water additions or decoction for any step
mash or mashout. Also, a false bottom can be a pain,
compared to the EZ-masher.
A 10 gal ss mashtun will hold 23 lbs of grains and the
mash water. That much grain holds heat well. I wrap a
sleeping bag around it (after flame out) and the temp
only drops a degree or two in an hour.
Mike Maag, brewing in the attached garage with the
doors part open. Shenandoah Valley, VA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:04:29 -0400
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
Subject: Re: Outdoor brewing (was Indoor boiling)
Kevin Morgan, brewing in south jersey asks:
>For those of you that brew outside in below freezing weather, how do
>you chill your wort?
I use an immersion chiller. I can get the wort to 48F within 20 minutes.
When I'm finished brewing I make sure the two garden hoses are
completely drained of all water. I store them in the unheated
garage. On brew day I take the hoses into the basement when I
start getting set up in case there is any frozen water in the hose
and then bring them out 4-5 hours later when I'm ready to drop the
chiller in the wort to sanitize it. I also completely drain the chiller and
store it in the basement to keep it from freezing. I've never had a
freeze up problem. I did forget to turn on the shutoff valve in the
basement one time and thought the hose bib was frozen. My wife
used some quick thinking and we ran the hose from the basement
laundry tub up the stairs and out on the driveway. We had to move
the boil kettle closer to the back door for the hoses to reach, but it
worked. I love my best buddy and assistant brewer!!!!
We make the beer we drink!!
Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, Michigan (2.8, 103.6) Rennerian We'll see him tonight at the
AABG meeting.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:06:30 -0400
From: "Roy Strohl" <lstrohl@mwc.edu>
Subject: Re: where do you brew and what is in storage
Here in Fredericksburg, VA I brew at the entrance of the garages which consist
of half of the basement area under our house. I brew on a natural gas fired
version of a three tier beer tree. Depending on weather, the garage doors can
be partially or completely opened, and a cross draft is created by opening the
two side windows.
What is in storage:
English mild - in bottles
Belgian dubbel - Chimay yeast - in bottles
Belgian dubbel - Rochefort yeast - in bottles
English southern brown ale - keg
PreProhibition - keg
Kolsch - keg
kegging 5 gallons of a Belgian Strong Golden this weekend
brewing ten gallons of Traquair House Scotch ale on Sunday
Roy Strohl, Dog & Dart Homebrewery
Fredericksburg, VA [ 696.3, 127.4] Apparent Rennarian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:07:18 -0400
From: David Towson <dtowson@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wyeast - Ready or Not? (Matt Harrington)
In HBD 4218, Matt Harrington asks:
"Today is April 9, I have a Wyeast that I started yesterday that has
already swelled to where the bag looks like it's going to pop. The date on
it is Nov 10 2002. Should I use is now or wait the one day per month rule?"
Matt didn't say which yeast he has, and some store better than others. But
this yeast is five months old, and its very vigorous activity may or may
not indicate that something is wrong. So my suggestion is to make a
starter with it, using the instructions on the package, and see how that
turns out. If the resulting product smells and tastes okay, then go ahead
and brew with it. But if not, then you will have avoided wasting five
gallons or more of precious wort.
Dave in Bel Air, Maryland
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:09:33 -0400
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
Subject: Wyeast
Matt Harrington asks:
>Today is April 9, I have a Wyeast that I started yesterday that has already
>swelled to where the bag looks like it's going to pop. The date on it is Nov
>10 2002. Should I use is now or wait the one day per month rule?
Matt, By the time you read this on April 12 I hope you have already made
a starter and stepped it up at least once. Use it now!!!!
We make the beer we drink!!
Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, Michigan (2.8, 103.6) Rennerian We'll see him tonight at the
AABG meeting.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:19:13 -0700
From: Jim Bermingham <jbham6843@netscape.net>
Subject: Environmental brewing
It appears that Dave Burley leads the "Life of Riley" Some of us are
not so lucky. Still, when the outside temp hovers around 105 degrees,
thoughts of being in the shade of the garage, brewing with a cold one
in your hand, sure beats being out in it mending fences.
Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX
- --
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:19:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze@yahoo.com>
Subject: wyeast
HI -
If I were you, I would either tranfer it to a starter
or use it. Don't worry so much about the date. I've
had them ready to use in 18-24 hrs for packs six
months old.
michael
=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:38:45 -0400
From: "Jodie Davis" <JodieDavis@adelphia.net>
Subject: Heather Ale
I'm intrigued by Fraoch heather ale and with about six plants in full
bloom in my garden (yes, there are a few species that stand up to
Georgia's summers) I'm toying with the idea of making a batch.
The two recipes I've found are quite different. Both recipes (Clonebrews
and one from the December 2001 BYO) call for either straining the cooled
wort through a last batch of heather blossoms or using a hopback. Ah,
can't wait to smell that!
Has anyone out there in home brew land made heather beer before? Any
input before I give my plants a haircut will be most appreciated.
Jodie Davis
Canton, GA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:39:04 -0400
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
Subject: What's in storage?
Marc Sedam asks for a list beers in the cellar.
HB in cornies:
Old Ale
Barleywine
Porter
Dopplebock
APA
Pilsner
IPA
Cream Ale
HB in bottles:
Imperial Stout
Commercial in bottles:
Bells Amber
Bells Third Coast Beer
Bells Third Coast Old Ale
Bells Two Hearted Ale
Bells Pale Ale
Bells Rye Stout
Bells Java Stout
Bigfoot 2000
Bigfoot 2001
Bigfoot 2003
Avery Hog Heaven Barleywine
Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale
Anchor Christmas Ale 2001
Anchor Christmas Ale 2002
Anchor Christmas Ale 2003
Anchor Old Foghorn 2002
Yellowstone Valley Black Widow Stout
Celebrator Dopplebock
Goose Island Honkers Ale
Middle Ages IPA
Middle Ages Grail Ale
Middle Ages Beast Bitter
Middle Ages The Duke of Winship
North Coast Old Stock Ale
We make the beer we drink!!
Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, Michigan (2.8, 103.6) Rennerian We'll see him tonight at the
AABG meeting.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:49:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: slow fermentation/ low attenuation
I've noticed the same thing. The only explanation
that i have come up with is that i also switched to
liquid yeast in a 1 pint starter from dried yeast the
same exact time i switched to all grain.
Did you make the same switch? My lag time is only
about 12 hrs with using a fifth wine bottle for a
starter. The cell count in such a starter is much
lower than in 11g of dried yeast, therefore it takes
longer. the house has also been colder, i went all
grain in feburary of this year. but that doesn't
sound like an issue for you.
Most importantly, the liquid yeast (and slower
ferment) makes a much better beer. I have more time
than money, and I'll just have to wait for it!!!
mike
=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:53:48 -0400
From: "Roy Strohl" <lstrohl@mwc.edu>
Subject: This is not good.
This news bite just came up on CNN/Money.
"Beer Slurpee, anyone?
7-Eleven convenience chain will sell its own brand of beer for $5.99 per
six-pack, wine for $4.99
<text>
Thirsty consumers who stop at 7-Eleven Inc. stores for Big Gulp cups of
soft drinks and frozen Slurpees will soon be able to guzzle beer and wines
being made especially for the store. The convenience store company said
Thursday it would sell its own beer, Santiago, in U.S. stores starting in
June. A Chardonnay and a Pinot Grigio under the new Regions brand will likely
be available in August, 7-Eleven said. The imported Santiago beer will sell
for $5.99 per six-pack, while six-packs of name-brand imported beers are
priced at about $6.99 to $7.49 in 7-Eleven stores. The company is bringing out
the drink to compete with popular beers such as Corona, which is imported from
Mexico. Santiago will be made by Cerveceria La Constancia, an El Salvador
brewer, in a joint venture with SABMiller PLC, Dallas-based 7-Eleven said. "
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:53:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven S <steven@403forbidden.net>
Subject: Re: What's a lager?
I do not know if this question is answerable from a flavor/profile
perspective. Too many styles cross the lines and it eventually comes down
to technique and yeast. If its cold and bottom fermenting its considered a
lager, otherwise its a ale. Then again where does that put steam beers!
Steven St.Laurent 403forbidden.net [580.2,181.4] Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:18:35 -0400
From: "PHILIP ROBINSON" <PhilipRobinson@peoplepc.com>
Subject: Experimentation APA?
I'm a new brewer and wanting to experiment with different ingredients to get
an sensory understanding of them. I am working in styles starting with
American Pale Ales. Anyone have any advice on which variables to mess around
with first--yeast, hops, crystal? Any other advice is welcome related to
APA's.
Phil Robinson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:21:19 -0400
From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox@cmsenergy.com>
Subject: What's in the cellar?
Mark Sedam asks "what's brewin?"
Well lets see..
In the fermentors we have Frog up you Kilt Scotch Ale,
Rauchbier-MarzenBock, Prickly Pear Mead,
In the secondarys we have Blueberry Mead, 1669 Metheglyn, Blackberry Mead,
Very Berry Market Mead.
Kegged Storage we have Heather Mead, Kylie's Apple Jack's (Cyser+), 02'
Cyser, Pyment, Cider, Export Stout.
Lagering: Koelsch, Alt, Siberian Imperial Ice Stout
On draft: Koelsch, Alt and the end of the Mild.
Its been a busy winter of outdoor brewing...
Next up: McGinty's Irish Lager, Oberon/Solsun Clone
Phil Wilcox
Jackson Mi,
Gearing up for the AHA in June!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:26:54 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen@rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: frozen hose
> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:15:39 -0400
> From: "Kevin Morgan" <kevin.morgan2@verizon.net>
> Subject: Outdoor brewing (was Indoor boiling)
>
> For those of you that brew outside in below freezing weather,
> how do you chill your wort? This past winter I tried brewing
> out in the cold, then my garden hose froze solid while I was
> trying to chill the wort with my counter flow chiller. Of
> course this would also be a problem with an immersion chiller.
>
When I was outdoor brewing, that never happened to me, even on the coldest
day where the temp was -20ish (C of course). I use an immersion chiller, and
perhaps my flow rate is faster, but I still can't see that making the
difference. And I stupidly didn't have a bib put into my garage when I had
the house built. I had to run a pretty good length of hose outside in the
bitter cold from the bib to the garage where I boiled. (BTW, I consider
garage brewing to be outdoor brewing. Them's of you that are flat out in the
full force of nature, you're just plain nuts!) ;-)
Was the garden hose left outside? Some residual water in there could have
frozen into a blockage. I always brought my garden hose inside the day
before the brew to ensure it was warm and ice free.
Do you have frost free hose bibs? If not, there could have been ice in there
that plugged up the works. Even a small blockage can quickly build up to a
total block.
Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:29:46 -0400
From: "-S" <-s@adelphia.net>
Subject: re: CO/the boil
Randy Ricchi says,
>What I am wondering is will the CO output be significantly lower if the
>burner is turned down low as compared to when it is opened way up and
>roaring.
The amount of residue CO depends entirely on how complete and well
carburated the burn is. In my experience most simple propane burners
burn cleanest near their maximum capacity and dirtiest, w/ the most
CO on lower settings. YMMV, which is exactly why you need to
measure CO or vent.
I have converted several burners to Nat Gas which tends to burn much
cleaner - tho' at a reduced power output. This may be a good solution
for you.
I applaud your use of partly covered boils. When you consider the
surface area to volume ratios of commercial vs HB it's quite clear
that our small boils need to be partly covered to reduce boiloff to
commercial levels.
HB myth #42:
>There is enough back pressure that I can get a
>vigorous boil ....
Has absolutely nothing to do with backpressure. You have greatly
reduced the heat loss thru evaporation so the power addition
needed for a vigorous boil is greatly reduced. Calculate how much
energy is lost in the 10% extra boiloff and you'll see the light. Added
head pressure (as in a pressure cooker) INCREASES the boiling
point, and so the energy losses to obtain a vigorous boil.
>With this arrangement I am now getting the 10% evaporation rate that
>George Fix used to promote (as opposed to my usual 20+%), I am using far
>less propane, and I assume I am getting less darkening of the wort, all
>while achieving a good, kicking boil.
I don't put any faith in Fix's notion of "excess thermal loading", there are
more holes in that argument than I care to recount, but there are reasons
to obtain a vigorous boil and to limit boiloff and boil time. Excessive
cooking does no good to the flavor.
In long and esp higher gravity boils there is considerable wort darkening.
Sometimes this is sensible - as in caramelizing first runnings for a
Scottish
ale, to reduce attenuation and increase sweetness. One of the common
arguments is that the boil creates Maillard products and also caramel
and melanoidins (which are not classic Maillard products but always
accompany these) . This is true, but the temperature, pH and ratios
of water, FAN & sugar are far far far from optimal for Maillard
products in the boil.
In a recent study [JIB v108,336-343] researchers from BRI and
Heriot-Watt studied several brewing variables wrt the production of a
major class of flavor active Maillard products (4-hydroxy-furanones
(4HF)). In a nutshell ....
1/ Longer mash times resulted in darker wort but LESS 4HF. At 30
to 90 minutes the 4HF levels were maximal, but at 120 minutes of mashing
the levels had dropped considerably. So much for overnight mashing.
2/ Higher mash temps result in more 4HF (up to 85C)
3/ Longer boils, to at least 90 minutes result in higher 4HF.
4/ A *huge* factor is the malt, with "stewed" malt, similar to crystal &
caramel making huge additions to the 4HF content.
5/ Fermentation - higher temperature fermentation in this case made a
very substantial difference in the amount of 4HF that survived into the
green beer. Yeast stain makes a difference as well. It is believed that
yeast can convert some 4HF precursors into 4HF.
Their conclusions ...
"A lager malt, kilned at low temperatures has no furanones, few heat
precursors and relatively low amounts of yeast precursors. An ale malt
kilned at higher temperatures, still has no furanones but contains
greater amounts of both groups of precursors. At the other end of the
scale the stewed malt kilned at elevated temperatures has the highest
levels of both heat and yeast precursors as well as furanones
themselves."
As I've said for a long long time - if you want Maillard products in your
beer add some crystal, Munich or melanoidin malt. Decoction & boils
relatively ineffective at creating Maillard products.
-S
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:38:11 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam@unc.edu>
Subject: wow! thanks for the help with drilling stainless (summary)
I always knew people were out there with good info, but a quick call out
for immediate help on drilling stainless gave me a large number of
responses. Thanks to everyone who responded so quickly... now I know
who reads the HBD over their morning coffee like I do.
There were two overwhelming concepts that came out of my questions:
1) Unibit/Greenlee step drill bit will work. Drill very, very slowly
(so you can see the drill bit turn), use cutting oil, and drill with
pressure and at a consistent angle to the metal. Faster drilling will
chew the hell out of the drill bit, and ruin the metal.
2) Use of a hole/conduit punch creates a better, cleaner hole. The
limitation of the hole punch is that you have only one choice of hole size.
In either case drilling a 'guide hole' with another bit was suggested.
The following link provided by Mike Zaploski, is great too.
http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq-stainless-alum.html
Thanks to everyone again. I'll be drilling a few holes this
weekend...slowly and steadily. I think I'm going to buy the Unibit
since I have a choice of hole sizes.
Cheers!
Marc
- --
Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:57:34 -0400
From: "Beer Guy" <beerguy@1gallon.com>
Subject: 4 gal, not 5
Steve writes:
is my beer ruined? will it simply be very strong? please advise
Steve: It's a total loss- But just for practice, why don't you bottle it up
and ship it off to me. I'll dispose of it for you.
Seriously, the only way to tell what the effect has been is to bottle and
drink a few. Who knows, you might like it better.....I doubt that it will be
as bad as some of the beers I've brewed intentionally as "experiments".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:06:29 -0500
From: DHinrichs@Quannon.com
Subject: Re: Outdoor brewing (was Indoor boiling)
My usual proceedure is to hook up the hose and but do not turn on the
chilling water until the VERY last minute. I have done this with the temp as
low as -10F without a problem. A few winters ago I made did two batches in a
row. I neglected to disconnect the hose and move it to the warmer garage
between batches. The result was a complete frozen hose and the faucet frozen
solid in the open position. Fortunately I have an additional interior value
to isolate the faucet, which was replaced at a later, warmer time.
Dave in minnetonka, mn
>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:15:39 -0400
>From: "Kevin Morgan" <kevin.morgan2@verizon.net>
>Subject: Outdoor brewing (was Indoor boiling)
>For those of you that brew outside in below freezing weather, how do you
chill your wort? >This past winter I tried brewing out in the cold, then my
garden hose froze solid while I >was trying to chill the wort with my
counter flow chiller. Of course this would also be a >problem with an
immersion chiller.
>Kevin, brewing in south jersey
This Email has been scanned for all viruses and objectionable content.
For AntiVirus Services contact: AntiVirus@quannon.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:10:27 -0400
From: Jay Pfaffman <pfaffman@relaxpc.com>
Subject: Re: 4 gallons, not 5
On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:50:28 -0400, Steve Hanlon <asciibaron@comcast.net> said:
> my wort has been fermenting since the 4th in 4 gallons, not the full 5.
> seems i got distracted when my 2 yr old son came home. in my rush to get it
> out of the way, i forgot to add the final gallon.
> is my beer ruined? will it simply be very strong? please advise
It's ruined. Please send it to me for disposal.
It's fine. It will, as you suggest, be a bit strong. You could even
add a gallon of spring, distilled, or just boiled, water now, but I
probably wouldn't. Lots of the big brewers brew and ferment strong
beers and water them down at bottling. This allows them to brew
bigger batches than their equipment would allow.
On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:39:52 -0700 (PDT), IAN FORBES <ianforbes@snet.net> said:
> I have moved into an apartment and no longer have room for 2
> refrigerators.
But where will you keep your food?
- --
Jay Pfaffman pfaffman@relaxpc.com
+1-415-821-7507 (H) +1-415-812-5047 (M)
San Francisco, CA.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 12:13:04 -0500
From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Keg Refrigerator
On 11 Apr 2003 at 0:12, Ian Forbes wrote:
> Please feel free to provide details - like size of
> fridge, make, model, how many kegs, how did you set it
> up, web links etc.
>
I have a GE 4 cu ft fridge that I use for a keg fridge. It holds one
5 gal (pin lock) keg and a CO2 bottle. I had to cut out the plastic
shelves on the inside of the door, trim the foam insulation, and
replace with a flat sheet of plexiglas to fit a keg in at all.
Currently, I just have a tap on a shank run out through a hole in the
door, but eventually I'll spring for a tap tower to mount on top so I
don't have to stoop to draw a beer.
Tidmarsh Major
Tuscaloosa, Ala.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 13:53:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Poll <jtpoll@mtu.edu>
Subject: Wort Chilling in the Northern Winters
Kevin Morgan Wonders how us Snow Bunnies chill wort in sub-freezing temps:
> For those of you that brew outside in below freezing weather, how do
> you chill your wort? This past winter I tried brewing out in the cold,
> then my garden hose froze solid while I was trying to chill the wort
Well, since I'm relatively new to brewing, I've been piecing together my
brewery, and have stumbled upon great deals, but not everything at once.
First, I got my turkey frier and converted keg, and no chiller. So for
the first couple/few batches it was a matter of sinking the keg into the
snow bank, and keeping the snow packed against the keg otherwise it would
melt away from the keg, and not chill worth a dang. Plus I'd give the
contents a stir every now and then. If I recall correctly I got about 10
gallons of wort down to pitchable temps in good time, 30-45 minutes if I
recall (sorry, my notes are at home...)
When I first built my chiller (a simple 50ft immersion,) the snowbanks
were too high around the house to actually get to the spigot. My first
two batches with the chiller me and my brewing buddy muscled the
keg-kettle into the kitchen and just chilled via the kitchen sink with
the keg sitting on the floor. One time I just attached the hose to the
kitchen sink, and ran the hose through the house. Worked great, no
muscling of a pot that could burn the heck outta ya. The only bad thing
I ran into with that trick was that I found the end of the hose attached
to the sink was leaking, after I went back inside to turn it off of
course. The leaking water had been flowing down the hose and made a small
lake in the kitchen... Nothing too terrible to clean up, it was definately
easier than the 1+ gallons of cooled wort I literally threw all over the
floor (which gave birth to the name Airborne Amber Ale,) but that's
another story.
After that incident, I got out the snow shovel and dug out the outside
spigot for my next brews, and all I did was hook the hose up right before
I needed it, and I had no problems with freezing hoses.
I should also admit, a lot of this goes a lot easier with a brew-buddy.
One person gets the chiller ready while the other one runs the hose around
the house, etc, etc. So, if you don't have a brew buddy, I highly
recommend everyone getting one! It makes brew day so much more fun/easier!
--Jason
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 12:20:23 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Step drills
Marc Sedam asks about drill bits for stainless
"I found two...one called a Unibit and another from Greenlee.
Both will drill holes between 1/8 and 7/8". Did anyone actually do this? "
The step drills work GREAT for drilling stainless. Unibit is the granddaddy,
and they work fine, but they only have one cutting surface (or at least they
used to, last time I bought one). It's been a while since I've used the
Greenlee, but IIRC, it has two flutes. I prefer the two flute variety,
because it seems like there less of a tendency to gall, and if one cutting
edge chips, it's not as big of a deal.
The best, and I mean absolute best, brand (IMHO, and I'm opinionated!) is
Lennox. I've taken a 7/8" Lennox bit chucked into my big D-handle drill
(nicknamed MasterBlaster), and blasted numerous holes in heavy gauge
stainless boxes with the box on the floor, clamped between my feet. It
takes me about 3-4 seconds to blast one through. The key is slow bit speed,
and tremendous pressure. Don't let the bit spin without cutting a curl, or
the stainless will gall terribly, and you don't want that--way harder to
work when that happens. A little sulfur based cutting fluid will greatly
help too, but with a step bit it's not really necessary. If you use a hand
drill, make sure it's a powerful one, and thread in the extra right angle
handle. Brace it against your leg, because step drills can grab the
workpiece and kick back. MasterBlaster grabbed the work once when I was
drilling a simple hole, and damn near broke my wrist. I've never used it
without the side handle since. A Milwaukee Hole Hawg drill works great on
low speed for this, and it's safer because you have good leverage. Most
drill presses don't have a low enough speed.
I'd say either the Greenlee or the Unibit will work. Stainless isn't hard
at all, it's almost buttery. Make sure you have a constant curl of material
coming off, and you'll be fine. That's why step drills work so much better
than a standard drill bit for stainless, especially sheetmetal. They're
darned expensive (a good 7/8 Lennox will cost about $50), but worth every
penny. They'll last forever, too.
Regards,
Mike Sharp
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:21:04 -0500
From: "Leonard, Phil" <Phil.Leonard@dsionline.com>
Subject: RE: contents of beer cellar
Brew in the cellar...I keep my list of brew on-line at
http://www.seidkr.com/~leonarp/Brewing/state_of_the_beer_vault.html
which is actually current at the moment.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:32:00 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner@comcast.net>
Subject: Challenger hops
Does anyone know of a source of Challenger whole hops (or plugs)?
Pellets don't work in my system very well.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:18:00 -0500
From: allan.boyce@usbank.com
Subject: THE 2003 UPPER MISSISSIPPI MASH-OUT!
THE 2003 UPPER MISSISSIPPI MASH-OUT!
The Minnesota Home Brewers Association and the St.Paul Homebrewers Club
announce the second annual 2003 Upper Mississippi Mash-Out
Homebrew Competition for all BJCP Categories (including Cider and Mead)
in Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota
(A qualifier for the High Plains Homebrewer of the Year award!)
The PRIZE LIST this year will make this one of the RICHEST contests
in the country this year!!!
April 11-20, 2003: Entries Accepted (All BJCP categories,
including Cider and Mead)
^^^^NOW!!!^^^^
May 1-3, 2003: Judging (NEW! Beds for Judges program)
CONTACT: Jonathan Crist at cristj@bsci.com
May 2, 2003: Twin Cities Pub Crawl (9pm) $30
starting from Radisson Metrodome
DEADLINE! FRIDAY - 4/25
PRE-REGISTER!: Kris England: engla008@umn.edu
May 3, 2003: Blessing of the Bock at Town Hall Brewery (6pm)
May 3, 2003: Awards Ceremony at Summit Brewing (8pm)
Information and Online registration for beers and judges available at:
http://www.mnbrewers.com/mashout
Judging will be held at the Radisson Metrodome:
http://www.radisson.com/minneapolismn_metrodome
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:23:24 -0400
From: mjkid@rochester.rr.com
Subject: Re: SWMBO
On 11 Apr 2003 at 0:34, Request Address Only - No Articles wrote:
> Subject: SWMBO
>
> Does SWMBO stand for "She Who Makes Brewing Obligatory"?
SWMBO= She Who Makes us Brew Outside;-)
(OK, I don't brew outside, but SWMBO wishes I did. She even
bought me a Cajun Cooker a couple Christmas's ago)
Mike Kidulich
320.8, 76.8 AR
>
> - --Tom
>
> "Health is overrated."
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4219, 04/12/03
*************************************
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