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HOMEBREW Digest #4214
HOMEBREW Digest #4214 Mon 07 April 2003
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Re: Quick Disconnects (Warren Place)
Glacier Hops again (Bill Wible)
Re: Fermentation Agitation ("Doug Hurst")
Fermenter recirculation - feedback (David Towson)
re: ultimate attenuation ("Steve Alexander")
Fly sparging (Jeff Renner)
protein rest in a hefe ("Frank Tutzauer")
Re: Fixing excess iron problems ("Mike Sharp")
Re: the classic old Hamm's tapper keg ("Mike Sharp")
Another 1st batch (Steve Hanlon)
Re: Hefeweizen Question (Teresa Knezek)
Hefeweizen Question (Eric Jacobs)
Re: HERMS question (Kent Fletcher)
Chest Freezer mods (Eric Jacobs)
Hugely improved BrewMaster 1.2 software now available (DSSS\)" <dsss@havochill.com>
new well iron, ("Dave Burley")
Advice on Mocha Java Stout (darrell.leavitt)
Mocha Java Stout (darrell.leavitt)
Indoor Boiling ("Mike Kessenich")
confusion over Campdens ("Peter Wadey")
Repackaging hops ("Doug Moyer")
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Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:13:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Warren Place <wrplace@ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: Quick Disconnects
>From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin@intel.com>
>Subject: Quick Disconnects
>Hi,
> I'm thinking of upgrading to SnapFlex QDs, but choked at the price. I
>saw on there are both Polypropylene and Polysulfone. I've seen the
>Polysulfone on sale at homebrew websites. The Polypropylene have almost
>the same specs for pressure & temp. Are these food grade too?
Nils,
I just bought some of those a short while ago and am
planning to to get more. They are very expensive, but I don't see another
alternative other than brass. The polpropylene qd's are food grade but
not rated for boiling temps. If you plan to transfer boiling wort, it
would probably be best to get the polysulfone qd's. I've seen some
polypropylene fail at high temps in the lab and it isn't pretty.
Warren
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 10:33:57 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill@brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Glacier Hops again
I asked this in the past, and I'm sorry to have to ask it again.
I recently was able to acquire 2 hop rhizomes for a variety
called Glacier. This is not a well known, or as far as I
can tell, a commercially available hop.
Anybody know what it is, what its characteristics are, typical
alpha, what kinds of beers it would be appropriate in, etc?
Thanks!
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:44:03 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH@theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: Fermentation Agitation
Speaking of agitation during fermentation, check out Al Korzonas' photos
and description of Samuel Smiths:
http://www.brewinfo.com/samsmiths/samsmth5.html
They use open fermenters and a very floculent yeast strain. During
fermentation the yeast is pumped from the bottom of the fermenter up to
the top and sprayed out through the air onto the top of the fermenting
beer. Most of us would be horrified if our beer was subjected to this
kind of aeration and agitation, but it works for their beer. Al claims
that the process is responsible for creating a good bit of diacetyl.
I would certainly label this process "agitation during fermentation".
It seems to work well for Samuel Smiths. Obviously their system is much
larger and pehaps worlds different from the typical homebrewer, but I'm
guessing that a mixing system in a closed fermenter isn't going to cause
too many problems.
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:14:23 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson@comcast.net>
Subject: Fermenter recirculation - feedback
Since posting my article describing severe damage to my Little Giant
magnetically coupled pump that resulted from continuously recirculating the
contents of my fermenter, I have received some very useful feedback. Some
of this has been posted to the digest, and some sent to me privately. I
very much appreciate these responses, and in this post I will briefly
summarize them.
Both Jonathan Royce and Doug Moller suggested that the abrasive substance
that chewed-up my pump was precipitated salt from my brewing water. That
does indeed match my situation. The water here in Bel Air has a good deal
of what I believe is dissolved Calcium salt. It forms a rock-hard deposit
in the plastic foam evaporator pads of my furnace humidifier, and leaves a
scum on the side of any vessel in which it is boiled. Doug described a
problem in the greenhouse industry wherein acid fertilizer dissolved in
high-pH water caused a precipitate that clogged injector nozzles.
Pete Czerpak said, "...my guess is that your pump impellor is destroying
itself by cavitation from the constanly produced and dissolved CO2 due to
the pressure changes seen within the pump causing the CO2 to rapidly come
out of solution. Special pumps are required for pumping liquids with
solubilized gases." And that too matches my situation. My pump is
certainly not built for heavy duty. Although the impeller shaft if made of
Titanium, the rotor itself is made of plastic, and I could hear some
chatter as it was pumping the fermenting beer.
Dennis Lewis suggested using a Powerhead undergravel filter aquarium pump,
and posted a link to a Google search that provides several links concerning
the product. But if cavitation due to released CO2 is the problem ...
And finally, Fred Scheer posted a story about Schlitz Brewing being
killed-off by bad beer that resulted from fermenter recirculation. I am
pleased to report that most definitely does not match my situation! I have
made a porter, a biere de garde and a witbier using recirculation, and they
have all been excellent.
So based on my experience and on the suggestions I have received, I think I
will give some thought to building a magnetically coupled mechanical
stirrer, so I don't have to put a hole in the lid of my fermenter.
Thanks to all for your helpful feedback.
Dave in Bel Air, Maryland
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:35:29 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: ultimate attenuation
J.N.Aikema tries to get a handle on what is meant by the attenuation of
yeast.
Unfortunately attenuation is determined by the yeast, wort properties and
the details of how the fermentation is conducted. Until you spec the wort
and fermentation process he figure is meaningless.
>If so, I assume the rest is maltotriose ?
"Typical" wort extract is about 8%to 10% non-carbohydrate. That fraction
is never fermented. A very small amount of the non-carbo extract (around
0.1% of total) is FAN and other vitamin content that is partly consumed.
Around 58-65% of extract is fermentable sugars - maltose, glucose,
maltotriose and a tiny bit of fructose. If this was all fermented the
*apparent* attenuation would be around 71-79%. The other carbohydrate
(26-34% of total extract) are mostly dextrins, but also glucans,
alpha-linked glucans and a lot of other minor non-fermentables. Note:
multiply apparent attenuation by 0.81 to estimate real attenuation.
*Most* brewing yeast will nearly fully ferment glucose, maltose and
fructose, with more variable results on maltotriose. *SOME* unattenuative
yeast do not even fully ferment maltose according to a recent JIB study.
The NCYC categorizes yeast based on the final gravity (SG 1.006 through
1.016) of some standardized wort after 6 days. They use EBC standard "tall
tube" fermentation - often used for forced fermentation tests. I don't
have the paper but the method is described in: R J Walkey, & B H Kirsop,
1969, J.Inst.Brew., 75, 393.
-S
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 13:35:17 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner@comcast.net>
Subject: Fly sparging
In HBD 4197, March 17, 2003, "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley@charter.net> wrote:
>To my knowledge, the term "fly sparging" is a mistake and came into the HBD
>lingo as a result of Al Korzonas' visit to a British brewery. Possibly he was
>having trouble understanding his guide or the guide was mistaken. He even
>commented on the peculiar term, as I recall.
>
>Likely the term is really "on the fly" sparging. Brits use this expression to
>describe any continuous process.
>
>Any British brewer have the answer for sure?
It took a little time, but I am able to rescue Al K's reputation ;-)
In H. S. Corran's 1975 classic _A History of Brewing_ (p.191), he
quotes J. Levesque's 1853 _The Art of Brewing_:
"Fly Mashing, which is modernly termed Sparging, is to pass the
succeeding liquors over the goods while the tap is spending."
It seems that sparging as we know it came into practice in Great
Britain in the mid 19th century. before that, successive mashes were
used, even though they weren't actually accomplishing any further
conversion after the first mash.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:34:17 -0500
From: "Frank Tutzauer" <comfrank@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: protein rest in a hefe
Dave L. wants to do a single-step infusion hefe, but is worried about
skipping the protein rest. Dave, my man, I was afraid of the same problem
with my first all-grain hefeweizen. I had just finished reading Eric
Warner's book, and he's pretty adamant about needing the protein rest.
I said screw it and did a single-step infusion anyway. No probs. My grain
bills will include 45-55% malted wheat, the rest barley, and a few handfuls
of rice hulls. No problems whatsoever. I've made 10 or so that way (and in
fact have one kegged now), sometimes 5 gallon batches, sometimes 15 gallon
batches. They've all turned out delicious.
I say, full speed ahead!
--frank in Buffalo
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 13:15:17 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fixing excess iron problems
Doug Moyer mentioned:
"I recently had a new well drilled. I don't know anything about the
makeup, but I can tell that the water is high in iron. (Strong iron aroma.)"
Yuck. A manganese green sand filter will remove your iron. Usually, it's an
old steel well casing that's responsible for excess iron, but yours is
new...unless you have iron pipe in your house distribution. That might be
worth looking into...
Regards,
Mike Sharp
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 13:32:26 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: the classic old Hamm's tapper keg
scott thompson talked about the classic old Hamm's tapper keg
"Has anyone out there been able to re-use one of these?"
Wow, I loved those things...I had a couple, and tried to get them to work
for homebrewing, but that was YEARS ago. They're really cool, because they
have a tiny CO2 bottle in the keg bung. I figured I could get the CO2
bottle so I could refill it from my 10 lb bottle, but the problem is that
when you pull the seal from the keg bung,it loosens up, and I was never able
to get it to seal right again. If I still had my old kegs, I'd try it
again, because since then I've found some thin split rings, that might do
the trick. If you get one of those Sankey split rings from your LHBS, it
might be the right size...Or maybe a thicker O-ring in there.
If you try it out, be sure to let me (us) know how it works. BTW, one of
mine had pretty bad corrosion in it when I opened it up, but the other was
fine. I wish you could still get them.
Regards,
Mike Sharp
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 16:58:25 -0500
From: Steve Hanlon <asciibaron@comcast.net>
Subject: Another 1st batch
I brewed up my first batch yesterday. Took 2.5 hours from start to finish
and it was a great time. I made MidWest's Autumn Amber Ale which is a mix
of extract and grains. This seems more like making something than boiling
some water and dumping in a syrup.
I learned a few things from my readings and only made 1 error - I measured
the OG of the 2 gallons in the brewpot, not the 5 gallons in the fermentor.
Other than that, I soaked everything in One-Step and kept the equipment
clean from start to finish. Hopefully I sanitized everything enough for the
batch to not be spoiled. I'll drink it if it's not too funky :)
My wife was surprised that I left the kitchen cleaner than when I started.
Bonus points for me.
Steve Hanlon
Severn, MD
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 13:13:11 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa@mivox.com>
Subject: Re: Hefeweizen Question
On or thereabout 4/5/03, Dave Larsen spoke thusly:
>I'm trying to figure out what kind of all-grain batch to do next. I was
>thinking about a Hefeweizen, which I've never done before. However, every
>all-grain wheat beer recipe I find recommends doing a protein rest.
My third batch of hefe should be done this weekend (hm, maybe I
should go check now...) and I've done single-infusion mashes every
time. And the beer is good. So I'd have to say the fancy multi-step
mash is optional.
Maybe there's something missing because I'm not doing a protein rest,
but there's not anything noticeable lacking between my beer and my
favorite commercial hefe's.
- --
::Teresa : Two Rivers, Alaska::
[2849, 325] Apparent Rennerian
"It has been my experience that folks who
have no vices have very few virtues."
-- Abraham Lincoln
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:33:49 -0500
From: Eric Jacobs <eljacobs@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Hefeweizen Question
Dave is thinking about brewing a hefeweizen, and is wondering how to
raise from a protein rest, to sacc temps, with his equipment... Or is
the protein rest really even necessary?
You could either add boiling water, exactly as you described, or do a
decoction. But if you're in the habit of just doing single infusions,
I'd stick with that. I've made a lot of good hefeweizen with single
infusions.
Eric Jacobs
Atlanta, GA
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:38:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: HERMS question
Joel Gallihue wants to HERMS with a cooler for an HLT:
(snip)
>I will have one burner w/ two cooler set up. The top
>cooler, and highest of all is the mashtun. Below it
>a cooler hot liquor tank. To the right of sparge
>water is boilding pot w/ pump below all.
>Question: If I locate a HERMS exchange coil in the
>liquor tank and fill the tank w/ 185 - 190 deg. F
>water and pump wort through the coil I should not
>have any problem running through various steps will
>I. Is not having bottom heat a serious flaw (snip)?
Joel, it would be pretty tight to make that work the
way you've postulated, with any reasonably sized
cooler/HLT. The HE in HERMS is short for Heat
Exchange, but more specifically it is Heat Extraction.
When you circulate wort through the coil in the HLT
you are extracting heat from your hot liquor. To put
it simply, as you raise the mash temp, you lower the
liqour temp. Depending on the size (mass) of the mash
and quantity of hot liqour, you probably would not
have sparge temperature liquor when you needed it.
However - it CAN be done. When I first started
HERMSing I was in the same boat, equipment-wise. What
you need to do is use your kettle for the HLT while
you are HERMSing, so you can keep the burner on to
replace the heat removed by the HERMS. This can be
done as simply as using an immersion chiller for a
HERMS coil, dropped in the kettle. After whatever
mash rests, HERMS to mash-out. Then pump your 175ish
liqour (you'll lose heat as you fill the ambient-temp
cooler) to your cooler/HLT, and start run-off and
sparge.
Hope that helps,
Kent Fletcher
HERMSbrewing in So Cal
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:03:58 -0500
From: Eric Jacobs <eljacobs@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Chest Freezer mods
I've just been making some modifications to a couple chest freezers to
add faucets, and wanted to offer a tip I don't remember being posted
before...
I went the "collar" route, building a frame that rests on top of the
freezer, and re-mounting the lid to it. But for constructing the
collar, I used vinyl trim boards. I bought a few 1x4 boards at the
local home-improvement mega-mart, cut them to size, and glued them
together with PVC cement. The PVC cement solvent-welds these vinyl
boards, so the joints are *very* strong. I doubled up the boards, so
the collar is actually 1.5" thick, 3.5" tall. It's waterproof, a
pretty good thermal insulator, and seems to be strong enough. And the
natural color of the vinyl (white) matches my freezer. ;)
The only drawback I can see is that the boards seem a bit "soft"-
their interior is sort of foamy, not completely solid. So when
mounting the lid, I drilled all the way through the collar, and used a
long screw/nut, with a washer on the inside to distribute the force.
Eric Jacobs
Atlanta,GA
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:30:06 +1000
From: "Scott Marshall \(DSSS\)" <dsss@havochill.com>
Subject: Hugely improved BrewMaster 1.2 software now available
Hi everyone,
I've just made the new release (1.2.0) of BrewMaster available.
This version is hugely improved over previous ones, with redesigned main
form and
recipe lists, online recipe imports, calculations, conversions, ingredient
and brew costs, etc.
Please check it out at http://www.HavocHill.com/downloads/bm12tr.zip
or from the overview page at http://www.HavocHill.com/bmoverview.htm
Scott.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 06:29:20 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley@charter.net>
Subject: new well iron,
Doug,
As far as iron in your water goes, many guys cannot take high iron. Unlike the
ladies, we have no way of getting rid of it. Friend of mine goes in every
month or two ( when he starts feeling lethargic) to get his blood drained to
reduce the iron content in his body. Even though it sounds medieval, it is
supervised by medical doctors in a hospital. His case is apparently not that
unusual, so he says.
I'd check with your local health authorities. Get a sample of your water
analysed. Sounds like you're in for a lot of trouble plumbing wise ( ferric
iron dissolves copper containing metal ), clean clothes wise - iron stains,
bathroom porcelain and kitchen sink stains, etc. if your water has that much
iron. Second place I'd go to is the well driller. he guarantees drinkable
water, or is supposed to. Failing all that, talk to your water treating
company. Sometimes, however, it is not the well water, but the in-the-well jet
pump rusting.
In any event and what is of real importance is you can't really make good beer
with high iron water. Go to Home Depot or wherever and get a little under the
sink RO water treatment for drinking water and making beer.
BTW if you or your family drink RO water, be sure to periodically sanitize the
system with a little bleach per instructions, change the carbon filter and
include trace mineral tablets in their and your diet.
RO will make great lagers!
Keep on Brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 07:46:38 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt@plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Advice on Mocha Java Stout
I have a Mocha Java Stout in secondary, and am in need of some of the
collective wisdom as to how to get the java in, and how much to use.
The recipe is as such:
5 lb Maris Otter Pale malt
2 lb Wheat malt
3 lb Munich malt
1 lb Special B
1/4 lb Black Patent
.75 lb Carapils
1/2 lb Roasted Barley (in the sparge)
og was 1.06
grav going into secondary was 1.022
What I intend to do is to brew a REAL strong 1/2 pot of coffee, using
freshly ground Mocha Java beans, but I am unsure as to how much to use. I
intend to fill the coffee maker's basket with the ground coffee, and
wonder is this too much?
By the way, he flavor as it went into the secondary was wonderful, and
almost tasted like it didn't need the coffee, but I am going to do it
anyway, in an attempt to make something close to the old Double Black
Stout that seem to no longer be on the market.
Does this method make sense?
..Darrell
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 08:00:39 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt@plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Mocha Java Stout
I think that I forgot to say in the previous post that I intend to add the
very strong coffee to the bottling bucket.
..Darrell
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:23:31 -0500
From: "Mike Kessenich" <mkessenich@charter.net>
Subject: Indoor Boiling
What is the best method for boiling wort indoors in a basement? I want to
go to 12 gallon batches and move to all grain brewing, but boiling outside
in the winter won't be pretty in Wisconsin.
Mike in Madison
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:37:28 +1000
From: "Peter Wadey" <pwadey@mimixbroadband.com.au>
Subject: confusion over Campdens
G'day All,
My local (Sydney) supply uses chloramine.
I have been checking out the chlorine/ chloramine removal thread on the HBD
and thinking that I'd rather add Campden tablets instead of boiling for a
few hrs (despite the person at Sydney Water saying 5 mins would do!) I
promptly bought some, but on inspection of the packet I notice the contents
listed as Sodium Metabisulphite.
I thought Campden tablets contained Potassium Metabisulphite.
Could somebody clarify this for me, please?
The local water has 11-16 ppm of sodium already.
I don't know to what extent these tablets will increase this, and so don't
know whether I should use them or not.
If somebody could offer some advice, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Peter Wadey
Mashing away in Eastwood,
Australia
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:13:16 -0400
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy@yahoo.com>
Subject: Repackaging hops
Our club (see tag-line below) is considering bulk buys of whole hops. As
such, we would like to have a way to effectively repackage the hops so they
keep fresh, especially aroma retention. I've tried "basic" vacuum sealers,
and am not at all impressed. The hop "dust" gets all over the inside of the
bag and prevents a good seal. The vacuum is largely ineffective, leaving a
lot of air in the bag.
So, for those of you that repackage hops (homebrew shops, clubs, or
individuals), how do you do it? What equipment? Cost (upfront and per
package)? How long do the hops retain their aroma with your method? Caveats?
And, by the way, for those thinking, "support your local homebrew supplier",
I respond, "It is a wine shop with a tiny homebrew corner, and he has no
interest in carrying whole hops..."
Many thanks, in advance...
Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Salem, VA
Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity
"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'"
~ Dave Barry
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
~ Galileo Galilei
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4214, 04/07/03
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