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HOMEBREW Digest #4199
HOMEBREW Digest #4199 Wed 19 March 2003
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Re; Calculating IBUs ("Bill Frazier")
re: pitchable yeast ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
re: Books ("Steve Alexander")
Darkening a Dubbel and West Coast AHA location ("David Craft")
Not an Iodophor Sanitizer (Hillyard) (rickdude02)
RE: Bottle priming (was Dry Ice Purging) (dblewis)
Kegged beer w/Stuck Fermentation (paul.strickland)
Bitterness Calculations ("Dan Listermann")
Delayed Wort Chilling ("Ian Watson")
RE: Bottling Bucket (WAS: Dry Ice Purging) (Jonathan Royce)
Ramstein drinking ("Dave Burley")
Educational Yeast Info. ("Pete Calinski")
RE: Books ("Mike Sharp")
Dry Malt boil time vs/ diacytle (denalitop)
Cereal Mash. (John)
Mototrized mash stirrer ("Reddy, Pat")
First all grain.. tested! ("Eyre")
RE: dry ice purging (Bill Tobler)
Re: Dry Ice Purging ("Tidmarsh Major")
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:58:23 -0600
From: "Bill Frazier" <billfrazier@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re; Calculating IBUs
Asher Reed asks "Or is there a better
(accurate) way of calculating IBUs?"
Pass me the soap box Asher. The best way to calculate IBUs
is any of the existing formulas. Pick one out and use it in
your brewing experiments so you will get used to how bitter
a certain type beer is with various IBU additions.
However, when you discuss beer bitterness with others
I believe it's a good idea to use Dave Line's 30+ year
old HBU method. Just give the boil time and HBUs of
hops added and everyone will know how you made your
beer.
Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:50:31 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew@compuserve.com>
Subject: re: pitchable yeast
It's all a matter of competition I believe, yeast competition that is.
I have observed that larger quantities (concentrations) of yeast
appear to autolyze faster. While attempting to store a slurry of
w3068 in the fridge for a month till I brewed again, after 2 weeks,
the slurry darkened and upon checking the odor was the familiar
burnt rubber of autolysis. Then there is the test someone had posted
here about storing just a few cells under sterile water for a year at room
temperature with no mutation. I've also observed that the Extra-Large
packs and Pitchable tubes have a fridge life of 6 months where the
small smack paks had a life of 1 year. Could it be that the added
density causes a more rapid degradation of the culture? Maybe the
problem isn't that they can't deliver the quantiy of yeast people
desire, but ensuring the 4 oz of slurry is used in under 2 weeks.
Oh, the 3068 slurry was stored at 34 F right next to the smack-paks
so storage temperature wasn't the problem.
NL
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 07:01:14 -0000
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Books
>The question I have for the group is what books should be on our wish list
>for a comprehensive library on brewing?
"Technology of Malting and Brewing", W.Kunze, VLB Berlin, [modern German
brewing practice in detail - the undergraduate course at Weihenstephan].
"Malting and Brewing Science", 2nd ed, Chapman Press (now Blackwell Science
Pub) 2 volumes. [The only modern English language book that covers all of
brewing science in detail. A bit dated, from the 1970s and 1980s]
"Brewing Yeast and Fermentation", Boulton & Quain, [Very current (2001?)
coverage of nearly everything you'd ever want to know about brewing yeast]
The 'Methods' book of the ASBC would be great too - all the technical
details of the approved beer analysis methods.
I could include a lot of older books that are still useful or
interesting,but the books above will decimate $1kUSD or more.
-S
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 06:33:54 -0500
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Darkening a Dubbel and West Coast AHA location
Greetings,
I just moved a Dubbel to the secondary and would like to darken it some. I
could use dark brown sugar for priming, but don't think that would be
enough. I did not add any chocolate malt or other roasted malt to the
mash. I ran the recipe in Promash and thought the result would be dark
enough.
What about crushing, steeping, then boiling a small amount of chocolate
(for color only) with the priming sugar? Or should I do that now in the
secondary and then prime as usual?
I can live with the color and I don't want to mess with a good beer.
I read last night that Belgian Candi Sugar, this one has one pound of dark,
does not darken near as much as one would think.
I read this morning that the AHA regional contest for California is at an
Episcopal Church. We have our Club Octoberfest at my Episcopal Church. My
Baptist friends always get a kick out of that!
Regards,
David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Guild
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:50:29 -0500 (GMT)
From: rickdude02@earthlink.net
Subject: Not an Iodophor Sanitizer (Hillyard)
Hello Brew Dudes,
I was expecting someone else to answer on the topic of the
Hillyard sanitizer that was thought to be, but is not, an iodine
based sanitizer. Just wanted to make sure that no one bought that
type of product by mistake.
The product in question (I'd quote, but I'm checking email
remotely at the moment) is based on Quaternary Ammonium Chloride
compounds. In fact, when you're checking out a sanitizer, look at
the statement on the label--it'll say if it's a quat where it
lists the active ingredients.
Don't use this for homebrewing. Quats are surfactants, and
although they are flavorless at the levels used for no-rinse
sanitizing, they will definately kill your head (well, not yours,
really-- that of the brew).
Since the topic came up, I thought it should be mentioned.
Rick Theiner
LOGIC, Inc.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:28:44 -0500
From: <dblewis@dblewis.com>
Subject: RE: Bottle priming (was Dry Ice Purging)
> You will be pleased at how uniform your carbonation is with
> this procedure.
<*snip*>
> gallon carboy. Get yourself a one pint glass Pyrex measuring
> pitcher to make up your sugar solution, add the sugar, dilute
> to 8 ounces , cover with plastic wrap and boil it in the microwave.
> You may wish to make a little more of this solution so you don't have
> an end effect problem in which it is difficult to get the last few
> teaspoons full. One teaspoon of this sugar solution is added
> per bottle into the empty bottle Do them all at once so you
> won't forget. This will take two to three minutes or so. Some use
> a pipette, I prefer a measuring spoon. Then add the beer and cap on
> the fob ( foam overflow) as I suggested.
I really like this idea. As for a measuring/dosing device, I immediately
thought of those plastic oral dosing syringes that you get from the
pharmacy for children's meds. They are graduated in both mL and tsp
and can handle probably 20 mL at a time (4 bottles worth). I used one
for acid additions back when I bothered to acidify the sparge water.
This is a good alternative to PrimeTabs if you're going to do the
whole batch. I always keep some PrimeTabs around in case I have a
bit more beer in the fermenter than will fit in the kegs. Just fill
the bottles and drop in a few.
Dennis Lewis, Warren, OH
[175.3, 113.3] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 07:57:10 -0600
From: paul.strickland@gm.com
Subject: Kegged beer w/Stuck Fermentation
Hi all,
On 3/8/03, I foolishly kegged an American Red Ale that I suspected had
stopped fermenting before completion (OG 1.045, SG at kegging 1.022). It
had been in the fermenter for 1 week at 70F. I kegged anyway, and now
after one week in the keg, the beer has a "funny" (I don't have enough
experience to identify) taste. It has a hop aroma (cascade), but virtually
no hop flavor. I think it needs to finish fermenting. Here is my plan:
In the next week or so, I'm going to brew a Pale Ale. After I remove the
pale ale from the primary, I plan to siphon the Red out of the keg and onto
the slurry left from the Pale Ale.
The beer has been carbonated and is currently in a fridge at about 45F. I
would take the beer out let it come to 68-70F prior to putting in the
fermenter.
Is this OK? If so, should I re-introduce oxygen to the beer? Any thoughts
would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Paul Strickland
Lawrenceburg, TN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:06:24 -0500
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan@listermann.com>
Subject: Bitterness Calculations
: "Asher Reed" <clvwpn5@hotmail.com> asks about various formulas calculating
bitterness. It should be remembered that almost no home brew has its
bitterness measured. All these formulas are like dead reckoning navigation.
They give you a direction and nothing more. To anguish over which one to
use is starting to get close to worrying.
Operating a homebrew shop inspired me to develop a simple formula that can
usually be done in my head at the sales counter. It seems to work, but the
only feedback is my taste buds.
IBU = Alpha * Ounces * 20 / Gallons for bittering hops with a hours boil.
I scale the 20 constant for other additions. The beauty of this is that,
for five gallon batches I just divide the bitterness required by 4 for the
AAUs. For heavier gravity brews, I just shade the AAU up a bit.
Remember, these formulas are not carved in stone physics and the only
feedback is your taste buds. Pick a system and learn to use it to your
tastes. I opt for simplicity, finding complexity largely an illusion in
this case.
Dan Listermann
Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com
Free shipping for orders greater than $35
and East of the Mighty Miss.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:38:14 -0500
From: "Ian Watson" <realtor@niagara.com>
Subject: Delayed Wort Chilling
Hi All
I brewed a batch the other night, and when the boil was finished it was very
late, so I covered the kettles and then put aluminium foil over for extra
protection and left them till morning. In the morning they were still very
hot, so I chilled them in the bathtub, and moved the wort to the fermenter
and pitched. What I'm wondering is, assuming there is no bacterial or
otherwise, infection, will this delayed wort chill alter or add to the
flavour of the finished beer? And if so, what sort of flavours should I
expect?
Thanks,
Ian Watson
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
[235, 71.9] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:06:46 -0800
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan@woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: RE: Bottling Bucket (WAS: Dry Ice Purging)
Dave Burley wrote:
"I strongly advise you not to use a bottling bucket. This is a
major source of oxidation of beer. Just bottle straight from the secondary
carboy/fermenter. This was a stupid suggestion to use a bottling bucket
CharleyP made and it is still with us, unfortunately...Sounds tedious but it
takes less time than all that cleaning and sanitizing and
recleaning of the bucket and you get more uniformity and no oxidation and
less chance of infection."
Well, to each his own, but I can say that I have had no problems (either in
terms of oxidation or in terms of uneven carbonation) following Charlie P's
recommendation of using a bottling bucket. (In fact, I would argue that it's a
bit of an overreaction to call the idea "stupid". Maybe Dave doesn't like it,
but the idea does have some advantages.)
I find that it is almost no additional work to clean and sanitize the bucket,
because the bucket provides me with a reservoir for sanitizing solution into
which I submerse all of my bottles before draining and then bottling. What's
more, I have very uniform carbonation because I curl my siphon tube along the
ID of the bucket such that it creates a nice swirling action which mixes the
sugar solution into the beer. Once the end of the siphon tube is submersed,
there is little chance for oxidation--the air is simply displaced in as near a
plug-flow manner as possible.
Only once have a had a problem with this method and that time, the priming
sugar was room temperature maple syrup and was too viscous to mix properly.
(Normally I use just-boiled priming sugar).
The other advantage of the bucket, IMO, is that it has a valve at the bottom
and thus feeds the beer to my bottle filler via gravity--I never have to worry
about losing a siphon.
Anyway, like I said--to each his own.
Happy brewing,
Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 12:01:14 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley@charter.net>
Subject: Ramstein drinking
Brewsters,
Kevin White has a friend going to Ramstein AFB in Germany and asks for
suggestions on places to get a good drink.
Lots of good places to drink in Frankfurt. It's the food and beer that count.
Tell your friend to not miss the Apfelwein ( hard cider) in the old town of
Frankfurt also. Lots of good food and Camaraderie at these big tables.
Keep on Brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 12:00:43 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski@adelphia.net>
Subject: Educational Yeast Info.
This article talks about undoing the evolution of yeast.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/science/social/18YEAS.html
I don't know how interesting it is but I liked this excerpt:
'Researchers also pointed out that the interest in chromosomal
rearrangements in yeasts is not limited to the laboratory. These are issues
of concern to everyone, at least everyone who likes beer.
In brewing, Dr. Oliver said, disaster can strike, with all the yeast in a
vat suddenly calling it quits and dropping uselessly to the bottom of the
fermenter. Researchers are learning, he said, that such fermentation
failures appear to be due to evolution in the vat - the arising of yeasts
with new chromosomal reconfigurations that make them fall down on the job.
But while scientists can now explain the glitch, brewers have not needed
such wizardry to fix it.
"The solution isn't too dramatic," Dr. Oliver said. The brewers simply throw
out the uncooperative mutants, go back and get more yeast and "start all
over again." '
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
***********************************************************
*My goal:
* Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
* (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:37:02 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Books
The good folks at Stein Fillers ask for reference book recommendations
Malting and Brewing Science, 2nd Ed. 2 volumes, D.E. Briggs, et al.
(Vol. 1, Malt and Sweet Wort; Vol. 2, Hopped Wort and Beer)
The first edition of these books are the my interest in brewing since the
mid-80's. But be prepared to spend some serious cash...
These folks seem to have an excellent list of related books:
http://www.chipsbooks.com/sltw.htm
Regards,
Mike Sharp
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:39:30 -0600
From: denalitop@tds.net
Subject: Dry Malt boil time vs/ diacytle
Dear HBD'rs,
I am wondering if the boil time of dry malt
extract has a correlation to diacytle? I have
been adding my dry malt the last 20 minutes of
the boil to ensure that the malt does not darken
the wort. Hoewever I have noticed higer levels
of diacytle in my latest lagers. Is it possible
that the length of boil can have an effect on the
diacytle production during fermentation? In one
of the latest BYO issues there was discussion about
adding the dry malt additions later in the boil, so
the last batches I have practiced this. I am also
concerned about the formation of DMS in the wort.
Am I wrong in this conclusion about a sixty minute or
greater boil being required for Dry malt brewing?
Stefan in Madison, WI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:45:28 -0800 (PST)
From: John <j2saret@yahoo.com>
Subject: Cereal Mash.
Its been about a year since my google search for a Red
Cap clone, brought me instead to the HBD and Jeff
Renier's CAP. I am (or at least my brewing is) the
better for it, however my cereal mashes have taken up
all together too much time. I see from the digest
that I can use corn flakes to add the desired flavour.
This leads me to a number of questions: Can anyone
suggest what weight of corn flakes might substitute
for a given amount of corn meal/grits/etc? will I
lose/gain in gravity points by substituting flakes?
will corn puffs work as well/better than flakes?
should I crush the cereal or just dump it in the mash?
and lastly can I make an oatmeal stout using cheerios?
Any and all help will be greatly appreciated but I am
going to plunge ahead in any event.
BTW if anyone has a Carlings Red Cap Clone I would
greatly appreciate the information.
John S.
(every time I click a link to calculate rennerian I
get a bunch of 404's)
Duluth Mn.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 14:41:28 -0600
From: "Reddy, Pat" <Pat.Reddy@mavtech.cc>
Subject: Mototrized mash stirrer
Does anyone know, or care to guess, about how much torque is required (in
lbs/in) to stir a 10 gallon mash tun?
I'm looking for a used gearmotor to fit my needs and I've found several but
I'm not sure if their powerful enough.
Thanks.
Pat Reddy
MAVERICK Technologies
(618)281-9100 x134
pat.reddy@mavtech.cc
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:09:44 -0500
From: "Eyre" <meyre@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: First all grain.. tested!
Well folks, just last night I finally cracked open my first bottle of all
grain brewed beer.. just a basic brown ale, nothing fancy. I only have this
to say about all-grain brewing:
I sure wish I'd have tried it sooner.. even 5 batches of extract was too
much!
This beer is without a doubt, no contest, hands down WAY better than my
extract batches.. and my latest extract brews aren't bad! The flavor, the
texture, the whole thing is just better. I was really suprised. I had heard
the rumors and seen all the other text on the screen about people switching
over.. and nobody ever seemed to switch back to extract. I guess there's a
reason for that! I really am amazed.. and the all-grain process is easy,
too.. if you keep it simple. I know you can get crazy/fancy with setups, but
with the most basic stuff I've got, and the results obtainable.. it's worth
every bit.
Thanks for all the help from everyone on here who gave advise and helped
with pics and such for when I was building my system. Greatly appreciated!
Now, it's back to the beer... :)
Mike
Please note my new email address:
meyre@sbcglobal.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:44:06 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: dry ice purging
Mike Sharp talked about removing O2 from a closed system by pressuring and
depressuring. I can certainly vouch for that method. I work in a Chemical
Plant and pressuring and depressuring is SOP for clearing a vessel or tank.
That is how I was purging my kegs up till now. I used the water method
yesterday and today and I think I will use it from now on. What is the
danger zone in PPM O2 in the headspace? I couldn't find a number anywhere.
It looks like we have the tail end covered on oxidation for kegging and
bottling. What is the best way of "Keeping the air out" on the front end?
I'm not going to say "That" word and maybe this will stay civil. I
typically dough in with my 1/2" drill and a paint mixer. It does a good job
and is quick. I remember reading a thread about using Sulfites in the mash
and HLT, but couldn't find it. Sometimes I will put a Campden tablet in the
HLT if there is Cl2 in the water. I put one tab in 14 gallons which will
give you between 3-5 PPM Potassium Metabisulfite. It gets the chlorine out,
but not sure if it helps or hurts in any other way. Just trying to make
better beer...
Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 19:21:49 -0600
From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Dry Ice Purging
I'll second Dave's suggestion to skip the bottling bucket. I usually
secondary in a soda keg and use the lowest pressure setting on my CO2
regulator to push the beer out, with a Phil's Philler attached to the
liquid out hose.
One further suggestion to simplify the process: try Domenick
Venezia's PrimeTabs. No need to boil & measure a solution, just drop
tablets in the bottles. As an added benefit, the tablets provide
nucleation sites so that the beer foams slightly in the bottle--just
enough so that when I fill, remove the filler, and place a cap on the
bottle, the foam has just reached the lip of the bottle, purging most
oxygen.
Tidmarsh Major
Tuscaloosa, Ala.
On 18 Mar 2003 at 0:11, Dave Burley wrote:
> BTW 48 teaspoons ( 16 Tablespoons) is 8 ounces - a cup. This will
> handle a 5 gallon carboy. Get yourself a one pint glass Pyrex
> measuring pitcher to make up your sugar solution, add the sugar,
> dilute to 8 ounces , cover with plastic wrap and boil it in the
> microwave. You may wish to make a little more of this solution so
> you don't have an end effect problem in which it is difficult to
> get the last few teaspoons full. One teaspoon of this sugar
> solution is added per bottle into the empty bottle Do them all at
> once so you won't forget. This will take two to three minutes or
> so. Some use a pipette, I prefer a measuring spoon.
> Then add the beer and cap on the fob ( foam overflow) as I > suggested.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4199, 03/19/03
*************************************
-------
