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HOMEBREW Digest #4193
HOMEBREW Digest #4193 Wed 12 March 2003
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
RE: DCL yeasts (Brian Lundeen)
Several very bitter beers ("Limosani, Peter")
Hop plants ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
Chandler, AZ water analysis ("Mike & Kim Walker")
warm and dead (Jeff Renner)
Increasing Bitterness (Joe Screnock)
2-Liter Soda Bottles and Pressure Limits (rhostler)
National Homebrew Competition ("Gary Glass")
Hydrometer correction ("Greg Remec")
The Dead Horse rides again (can you beat that?) (John)
Copper and yeast (Bill Tobler)
2003 Maltose Falcons Mayfaire (aka the 24th) ("Beechum, Drew")
RE: Greed ("Jimmy Jams")
Free Yeast (Stephen Johnson)
Care and cleaning of plastic (Rod Tussing) (Stuart Lay)
Comments on first all-grain procedure (John Palmer)
hawaii (ensmingr)
Headspace ("Kessenich, Michael")
overcarbed wee heavy (Randy Ricchi)
re: 1st All Grain Batch Procedure (Ben Hanson)
RO Water ("A. J. delange")
Re: Dry Hopping Lagers (by way of Jeff Renner)
Re: Chili Beer (Michael Hartsock)
re: Refractometers and Hydrometers (Brew Man 333)
foaming stout woes ("John Misrahi")
Re: CAP and Jeff Renner (Bill Wible)
Frozen Grain Bill (Micael Mullins)
ProMash Greed!!!!!! ("Eric R. Theiner")
RE: TMS ("Doug Hurst")
CABA rule changes (long) (Brian Lundeen)
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Chili_beer?= ("=?iso-8859-1?Q?Larry_Bristol?=")
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:19:58 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen@rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: DCL yeasts
Steve Alexander writes:
> DCL thinks homebrewing is about making cheap beers and that
> HBers certainly wouldn't notice the 'subtle' differences
> between two different lager or ale strains since we just brew
> infected cheap swill from kits.
>
> I surely wish that Lallemand had the same range of yeasts in
> dry form. They certainly appraise the HB market more accurately.
Well, I have to question Lallemand's commitment to brewing yeast in general.
This current renaissance of dried yeast seems to have eluded either their
attention or their interest.
As for DCL, hey, we knew they were British. ;-) Clearly, a concerted effort
in modifying their attitude toward homebrewers world wide would seem to be
called for. I believe that the AHA can, and should, take the lead role in
this. They represent many thousands of homebrewers, and their words should
carry a little more weight than a few emails from disgruntled homebrewers
scattered here and there.
At the same time, perhaps the AHA could be doing more in the other
direction, namely encouraging homebrewers to try out this new generation of
dried yeasts. As long as the perception remains that serious brewers will
only use liquid yeasts, and dried yeasts will just end up under the plastic
lid of a kit, I don't see that competitive factor driving new developments
in packaging on either side of the fence.
Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 11:37:51 -0500
From: "Limosani, Peter" <Peter.Limosani@FMR.COM>
Subject: Several very bitter beers
I've searched the archives, but searching on 'bitter' or the like produces
a lot of documents and I couldn't really pinpoint any answers.
The last several beers I've produced have been too bitter to drink. Two of
them are too bitter to even get a lick of malt flavor.
I have a spreadsheet that I use to calculate hops additions using IBU and
BU:GU ratios as explained in the book 'Designing Great Beers'. I doubt
that I'm over hopping. The quantities are within the range of other recipes
I've made.
I consider myself to be very impeccable about sanitation. I clean with
B-Brite and everything that even hovers near my beer is sanitized with
Idophor, boiled or burned with alcohol. I muck with fermenting beer as
little as possible.
I started using two new techniques about the time the bitterness started.
One, I started making 2 liter yeast starters with stirring aeration using
the technique I found on the PrimeTab Web site. It appears to make a lot of
slurry and fermentations really get going!
http://www.primetab.com/yeaststarter.html
Two, I bought a regulator and stone and started oxygenating the cooled wort
before pitching yeast. I use a $10 oxygen tank from the local hardware
store. I bought the gear from an on-line brew shop and follow the
directions.
I boil the stone to sanitize.
Has anyone had bitterness problems traced to either of the above techniques?
Maybe wild yeasts are getting in my starter? Maybe the oxygen contains some
nasties? Maybe there's something else I'm missing?
I know I can eliminate one technique and then the other, but I want to avoid
dumping any more beer, so any thoughts from the group are greatly
appreciated!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 08:56:02 -0800
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson@hotmail.com>
Subject: Hop plants
George/Ludwig {Bluestar792@netscape.net}
asked:
>Where can I buy hops plants? I would like to grow my own.
I have found a good deal of information (and a good source for those in the
US) at http://www.freshops.com/
For those in Canada who do not wish to go through the hassles and cost of
phyto-certification (due to disease concerns), a few varieties are available
(Cascade, Hallertauer, Mount Hood, Nugget and Willamette) mail order from
Richters' Herbs [www.richters.com]. They are small plants, not rhizomes,
and will not produce the first year.
Hoppy Brewing....
Steve Dale-Johnson
Brewing at 1819, 298 (mi) Rennerian
Vancouver area, Canada
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 09:58:46 -0700
From: "Mike & Kim Walker" <walkermik@earthlink.net>
Subject: Chandler, AZ water analysis
I received the following numbers from the City of Chandler Water Quality
department.
Calcium = 73 mg/L
Magnesium = 27 mg/L
Bicarbonate = 200 mg/L
Sulfate = 130 mg/L
Sodium = 200 mg/L
Chloride = 291 mg/L
Hardness (as CaCO3) = 290 mg/L
Alkalinity (as CaCO3) = 200 mg/L
pH = 7.59
A quick review of the numbers shows high levels of Bicarbonate, Sodium &
Chloride. Would the best course of action be dilution w/distilled water to
bring the Sodium & Chloride concentrations down?
Thanks,
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:28:19 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner@comcast.net>
Subject: warm and dead
Brewers
In attempting to draw an analogy, I wrote
>There's a rule among EMTs that no one is dead until they're cold and
>dead. A similar rule applies here - never throw out a beer because
>you think it might be bad. Wait until it's old and bad (unless it's
>clearly infected). It may ferment out just find, and even if it
>doesn't taste great when it's finished fermenting, it may age out to
>be better.
Wil Kolb and Bruce Carpenter both caught this brain lapse and have
pointed out that it's "no one is dead until they're WARM and dead."
It applies in the case of near drowning and/or hypothermia. A
patient may be very cold and have no apparent vital signs but upon
warming will revive. They put it better than this but that's the
idea.
Thanks Wil and Bruce for the backup. I should stick to beer, not medicine.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:54:46 -0600
From: Joe Screnock <hts@essex1.com>
Subject: Increasing Bitterness
Greetings to you all. I have a problem which I don't remember being
discussed here before, and can't seem to find anything in the archives.
I made an ESB this past weekend and shot for an OG of 1.055 to 1.060. I
targeted 30 - 35 IBU's for bitterness and think I am right on. However,
I overshot my OG and it turned out to be 1.066. The batch is happily
bubbling in the primary now, but I'd like to increase bitterness to
about 50 IBU's (adding about 20).
My plan is to boil 4 cups of water, 2 cups of DME, and 1 oz Goldings
(6.8%) for about a half an hour. My IBU chart tells me this should give
me about 20 IBU's. I'd then add this to the secondary when I rack it.
My question is this: Will this give me the desired results? I know
that hop utilization changes with an increase in OG (over 1.050), but is
there a utilization change with 1 oz of hops being boiled in 1 qt of
wort (i.e. a high concentration of hops)?
I won't complicate this post with the recipe and my thinking when making
the recipe because it is kind of a "goulash" batch. I had some of this,
and some of that, and some of this over here that needed to be used up.
I'm not expecting to win any awards with this particular batch (nor
will I try) - I'd just like something very drinkable and I feel that
with an OG of 1.066 and "only" 35 IBU's, the result will not be very
balanced.
Any help - on-line of off - would be appreciated.
Joe Screnock
[317, 266] AR
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 16:03:43 -0500
From: rhostler@pcconnection.com
Subject: 2-Liter Soda Bottles and Pressure Limits
I am planning to make a hard cider from apple juice and my used ale yeast. I
plan to add the juice to the yeast after I rack the beer to secondary. I
plan to let the cider ferment until I see no more activity then add corn
sugar and bottle in 2-liter soda bottles.
I have a few questions before I make my first attempt:
1. Will I run into bursting problems using these bottles?
2. What is the maximum pressure these bottles can handle? I read several
articles that explained how to make rockets with soda bottles. They
recommended keeping the pressure below 90psi.
3. What is the average maximum pressure that glass beer bottles can handle?
TIA
Richard Hostler
In snowy New Hampshire where it's still cold enough to lager in the garage.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:31:03 -0700
From: "Gary Glass" <gary@aob.org>
Subject: National Homebrew Competition
Hey Everyone,
The entry deadline for the First Round of the American Homebrewers
Association's 25th Annual National Homebrew Competition (NHC) is quickly
approaching, so get ready to send in those entries!
Last year we had 3,074 entries, once again making the NHC by far the world's
largest homebrew competition! We expect even more entries this year. Due
to the growing number of entries, we've added a new "East" region based in
Cleveland, OH.
Entry Deadline: April 9-18
Judging: April 25-27
See http://www.beertown.org/events/nhc/index.html for details, entry forms,
site map, etc.
We Need Judges and Stewards! If you are interested in judging, contact the
judge coordinators listed at
http://www.beertown.org/events/nhc/judging.html.
For entries advancing to the Second Round of the competition, judging and
awards ceremony will take place at the AHA National Homebrewers Conference
in Chicago, June 19-21, 2003. For details on the conference, see
http://www.beertown.org/events/hbc/index.html. Once again, the Ninkasi
Award winner (for the winningest brewer in the second round of the
competition) will be taking home a stainless steel conical fermenter,
compliments of Beer, Beer, & More Beer.
Also, for AHA members, don't forget to vote in the AHA Board of Advisors
election! Ballots will be accepted through April 1. We have an excellent
line up of candidates this year. You can vote online at
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/election.html.
Okay, one last thing. Once again, Lallemand, makers of Danstar yeast, is
offering one lucky AHA member a full-paid scholarship to attend the Siebel
Institute of Technology's Concise Course in Brewing Technology. See
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html for contest details.
Cheers & Good Luck in the Competition!
Gary
Gary Glass, Project Coordinator
Association of Brewers
888-U-CAN-BREW
(303) 447-0816 x 121
gary@aob.org
www.beertown.org
Join the American Homebrewers Association today at
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/membership.html. Check out the new AHA
Pub Discount Program, http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/pubs.html!
Get your entries in for the 25th Annual AHA National Homebrew Competition,
entries due April 9-18, 2003 see
http://www.beertown.org/events/nhc/index.html for details.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 16:40:16 -0600
From: "Greg Remec" <gmrbrewer@hotmail.com>
Subject: Hydrometer correction
Hello all,
My hydrometer came with correction factors for samples up to 107F, but I'd
like to check samples on the fly without cooling them. Are the correction
curves standardized, or do they vary with each hydrometer model? If they're
standardized, can someone please post the corrections up to mashing
temperatures, say up to 160F? If the corrections are not standardized, can
I extrapolate the curve (it looks fairly linear in the temperature range
provided with the hydrometer)?
Thanks for any help,
Greg
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:44:36 -0800 (PST)
From: John <j2saret@yahoo.com>
Subject: The Dead Horse rides again (can you beat that?)
Well, I thought I would have a couple of days off last
week so I planned I would brew my long delayed
McSorley's Black and Tan (From North American Clone
Brews) The smack pack were a little old so I smacked
them right away, I had all the grains, the crush went
fine and then I got called back to work (where are all
the unemployed clamoring for jobs?). Now I had to
mash, sparge and brew across three days in the wee
hours of the evening. Had a good mash, was only one
point below the o.g. set the mash aside until the next
day. Did the hour boil, added the preboiled cool
water to top up the wort, chilled in a cold running
water bath. The smack packs had a little pressure in
them and when the wort temperature went below 75deg
(f) I pitched them. After 72 hours I had no pressure
in my fermenter. I pitched new yeast and had
fermentation within 12 hours. My question is this: I
could not replace the Irish Ale yeast (wyeast 1084)
from the limited resources of the local liquor store
so I pitched a generic dry canadian ale yeast. I
wonder if anyone can tell me what differences in
flavour, body, etc I might expect from this
substitution. I generally use dry yeasts for my ales
so I am not familiar with what the wyeast might have
provided to the brew.
Thanks
John S.
In the northern most of the Duluths
"Absent hypocrasy none of our great institutions:
Political, Cultural, Religious and Commercial could
not co exist with each other and would probably fail
of their own contradictions."
___________________________________________________________
Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification
software.
Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:10:58 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Copper and yeast
I've been having some fermentation problems lately, like the ferment
quitting early. I just brewed a Helles the other day, and when I blew out
the Star San from the counterflow chiller and post chiller, (20 feet of 3/8
copper tube in a cooler of ice) I noticed the Star San had a green tint.
Not good. I caught a sample to check gravity, then boiled it for a few
minutes and put it in a 4 ounce sample bottle and gave it to our lab guy to
run a Copper. He just called and said it had 16 PPM Cu. Now, for some
reason, I seem to remember that anything over 1 PPM is bad for the yeast. I
sure could use some direction here. We run Cu samples on a regular basis at
work, and he tested by Atomic Absorption, so I believe the results. Thanks
in advance.
Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:25:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "Beechum, Drew" <Drew.Beechum@disney.com>
Subject: 2003 Maltose Falcons Mayfaire (aka the 24th)
Brewers,
The Maltose Falcons are happy to announce the arrival of the
24th Annual Maltose Falcons Mayfaire
This year's new style addition should be welcome to all the hopheads,
the vaunted Double IPA! (See the full guidelines at our website.)
The BOS Winner will receive a statuette of the famous bird, "Hashell
Dammit!"
Entries are due between April 1st and April 17th. 3 bottles and $6 per
entry
Results of this competition are used in the Sierra Nevada California
Homebrew of the Year Award.
Full details and online entry at http://www.maltosefalcons.com/
Good Luck!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:50:35 -0500
From: "Jimmy Jams" <jimmyjams@stribmail.com>
Subject: RE: Greed
Dear Wayne Holder AKA Zymie AKA Brewer With A Thick Wallet,
When you get a chance, could you look up self-righteous?
Thanks,
Jim James
Get your free Web-based E-mail at http://www.startribune.com/stribmail
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 21:48:13 -0600
From: Stephen Johnson <sjohnson3@comcast.net>
Subject: Free Yeast
A quick update: Despite the recent online battle about dried yeast
between Bill Wibble and the rest of the homebrewing world, Bill was true
to his word of offering free dried yeast to anyone who wanted it. The
day after he made that offer on the HomeBrew Digest, I e-mailed him and
asked him to send me some free yeast, requesting some of the Danstar
yeasts in particular. He sent me a packet of Danstar Nottingham yeast
that I received today. Cost him .60 for the stamp, and probably another
.50 for the bubble wrap mailer, and the pre-sale cost of the yeast. This
all happened while he was moving his shop to a new location in Malvern,
PA. Thanks, Bill, you are a gentleman.
After I use the yeast, I'll send you a bottle of the English Ale I brew
with it and you can tell me if it is phenolic or not...
Steve Johnson,
Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN
Vote for Chuck Bernard and Brian Cole for the AHA BOA!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:38:19 -0800
From: Stuart Lay <zzlay@yahoo.com>
Subject: Care and cleaning of plastic (Rod Tussing)
Hi --
There's been some discussion of Stainless CC's and US Plastic's tanks as
an alternative. Also, how Rod asked how to clean a plastic CC without
scratching.
I've been using a Minibrew 8.5 gallon plastic CC for a year now and have
really enjoyed it. Cleaning is a snap. As soon as I'm done kegging a
batch, I rinse it out using warm water and a teflon-safe scrubber made
by Skilcraft, a Scrub-eez. I find these near the mops or the sponges in
local supermarkets. They clean effectively and do not scratch the
plastic. After cleaning, I fill the fermenter with Star San, let sit
for five minutes, then drain back into the seven gallon plastic bucket
(my first fermenter). I'm able to reuse the Stan San at about six times
before it turn cloudy.
On brew day while boiling, I run the Stan San through the fermenter
again. After pouring the solution in, I take a clean Scrub-eez and use
it to wet the sides, top rim, and top thoroughly with sanitizer. Put
the lid back on and let it sit for five to ten minutes. Then I drain the
bulk of the solution back into the former fermeter through the racking
valve to sanitize it, and then the remainder through the bottom dump
valve. Wait twenty minutes.
Then I take 3 liters of boiling water and rinse all surfaces and drain
again.
The brew day process may seem involved, but it goes easily between hop
additions and works effectively...I haven't had any problems with
infections.
The only thing I'd change about the Minibrew would be a way to lift the
CC out of its stand without removing the ranking port, but oh well...
BTW -- I'm not affiliated in anyway with any of the manufactures listed
above, yadayadayada.
stuart
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 21:42:28 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer@altrionet.com>
Subject: Comments on first all-grain procedure
In Digest #4192 Michael asked for comments on his proposed procedure
for his first all-grain brew.
In general it looks good, but I do need to point out a couple issues.
Step 1: Grain crushing: Okay.
Step 2: Pre-heating the mash tun: Good idea, but it is much easier to
heat about 2 gallons to boiling, pour it in, swirl it around, let it
sit and then dump it. Transferring 7 gallons to and fro is asking for
trouble. Strike temperature matches what I would calculate.
Step 3: Strike volume: Okay.
Step 4: Adding the Grist to the Water: No, it is better for the enzymes
if you either a) Add water slowly to the grist, or b) Add all the grain
quickly to the water. But considering the strike water temperature is
only 163F it is not that big a deal. (but your emphasis seems wrong).
Step 5: Readying the Sparge water: No, do not add gypsum to your
sparge water to attempt to adjust the pH! It does not work that way.
Gypsum (actually the Calcium component) and magnesium-containing salts
adjust the *mash pH* by participating in a chemical reaction with the
malt phytin to release hydrogen ions, and thus lower the pH. Sparging
is not the time to be doing this. If your water is alkaline, you are
better off adding a couple tablespoons of dark malt extract to your
sparge water to buffer it, or simply brew a darker beer to begin with.
I don't recommend adding acid to your sparge water unless you know just
how much to add. Not to blow my own horn, but please read Chapter
15--Understanding the Mash pH before attempting to adjust your brewing
water. (www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15.html)
Step 6: Checking for conversion: Not really necessary, especially if
you are doing an all-malt brew without any starchy adjuncts like flaked
corn, torrified wheat, or oats. I haven't checked for conversion in
years.
Step 7: Recirculation: Hmmm, I have never had recirculation/clearing
take 15 minutes. Maybe 5 or 6 but not 15. You should only have to
recirculate a few quarts, 2 gallons at the very most.
Step 8 and 9: Sparging Proceure: Okay. Although in my next edition I am
really going to recommend that everyone batch sparge instead of
continuous/fly sparge. It's a lot easier to coordinate, especially for
a first brew. see www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/HTB_update.pdf
Step 10: Stopping the Sparge: Okay, but batch sparging makes this
easier because you don't have to check the runnings, you just collect
the amount you want to boil.
Hope this helps, best of luck!
John
John Palmer
john@howtobrew.com
www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer
www.howtobrew.com - the free online book of homebrewing
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 02:10:34 -0500
From: ensmingr@twcny.rr.com
Subject: hawaii
Any HBD'rs in Hawaii? I'll be on Oahu from May 8-11 and the Big
Island from May 11-17. Want to hook up?
Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 07:01:54 -0600
From: "Kessenich, Michael" <Michael.Kessenich@deg.state.wi.us>
Subject: Headspace
If a person was to buy a 12 gallon conical fermentor could he ferment 5.5
gallon batches in it? Would the excess headspace cause any problems? Too
cold to brew outside in the winter.
Mike in Madison, WI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:10:39 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi@houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: overcarbed wee heavy
Greg (dropthebeer@hotmail.com)
Just do like your email address says and drop the beer into a pitcher to
de-carb it before pouring into your glass and drinking. That's about all
you can do at this point.
If you take the caps off and re-cap, you're not going to diminish the
carbonation much, because the CO2 is at equilibrium throughout the
bottle. You would only be releasing the little bit of gas in the
headspace. When you re-capped, the CO2 in the beer would evolve out
until the headspace pressure was in equilibrium with the liquid, and
you'd still probably have gushers.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:13:19 -0500
From: Ben Hanson <bhanson@rica.net>
Subject: re: 1st All Grain Batch Procedure
Only one hint that I remember still from the first couple of all grain
batches: The time frames will always sneak up on you for which you need
large quantities of hot water ready. I have a very slow electric stove,
and need to anticipate those times pretty far in advance.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:25:57 +0000
From: "A. J. delange" <ajdel@cox.net>
Subject: RO Water
In response to Trevor White's question: I used to start with RO water
and build up to whatever was appropriate for the style I was breweing.
In fact my well water is pretty good for most anything except Pilsners
and one day it dawned on me that I could get a profile very close to
that of Pilsen by using 3 parts RO water to 1 part well water and that's
how I do that style. Water pH doesn't matter at that level of dilution
so all I go for is the sulfate and calcium content (which I do check for
each brew).
A.J.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:55:54 -0500
From: "Horzempa, Jack" <horzempa@drs-fsc-comm.com> (by way of Jeff Renner)
Subject: Re: Dry Hopping Lagers
Russ Kruska enquired about dry hopping a lager and there were several posts
from folks recommending that he not dry hop his lager.
In private e-mails to Jeff Renner (one of the posters not recommending dry
hopping) I discussed my experiences with dry hopping Pilsners and CAPs
(which were all favorable by my taste buds). Jeff encouraged me to post
those experiences so below are extracts from the e-mails that I sent Jeff.
I have brewed numerous batches (maybe 20 batches?) of Bohemian Pilsners
based upon a recipe that Ray Daniels posted on the All About Beer website.
He called his recipe Perfect Pilsner. In my humble opinion it is truly a
perfect Pilsner and he calls for dry hopping with Saaz hops within his
recipe. I will freely admit that I am not a certified (or non-certified)
beer judge but the resulting beers from this recipe are by my taste buds
very good to excellent. They do not taste in any way grassy or vegetative
(or weedy as Steve Alexander describes it).
I have also brewed numerous (about 15?) batches of CAP based upon Jeff
Renner's recipe. Since I am so fond of dry hopping my Bohemian Pilsners, I
also dry hop my CAPs as well (with Hallertauer Mittelfruh) to good effect.
Again, I do not perceive grassy/vegetative/weedy tastes or aromas.
One of my favorite commercial Pilsners is Tuppers Hop Pocket Pils brewed by
the Old Dominion Brewing Co. in Ashburn, VA. This beer was 'voted' by
Michael Jackson as the best beer in America. It turns out that this beer is
dry hopped, see description copied below:
Commercial Description:
Tuppers' Hop Pocket Pils is made via a complex hopping schedule which
includes dry hopping for weeks over whole-flower Saaz and Mt. Hood hops.
Also used are Saaz, Mittelfruh, Spalt and Mt. Hood in the kettle. The beer
is bottled and keg conditioned which provides very fine carbonation and a
fine head.
Jeff enquired as to my dry hop 'technique' to which I replied: I pretty much
'mimic' Ray Daniels' procedure: I dry hop within the secondary (a carboy)
for a period typically of 5-6 weeks. I also typically use about 1 oz. of
pellet hops within a muslin sack which I 'weigh down' with marbles; 1 oz. of
Saaz hops for the Bohemian Pilsner and about 1 oz. of Hallertauer Mittelfruh
for the CAP. As to the quality of the hops I am uncertain how to qualify
that. I typically purchase these hops from Williams Brewing (mail-order; no
affiliation) and from physical and aroma perspectives they 'appear' to be
fresh (i.e., nice and green with a pleasant aroma).
I then made some comparisons of my resulting homebrewed Bohemian Pilsner to
commercial products: It is my guess that the presence of dry hop aroma may
be 'disturbing' to some folks since it is not a generally accepted practice
by the European brewers. At the risk of sounding immodest, I have not tasted
a commercially brewed Bohemian Pilsner that I like better than the one I
brew. I have tried Pilsner Urquell on numerous occasions (both in bottle and
on draft) and I 'say', what's the big deal? I recently purchased a six pack
of Czechvar and I also was under whelmed by this beer. Another good local
microbrewery is Victory and they make a German Pilsner called Prima Pils. I
drink one of these and that is enough for me. I do like the Tuppers Hop
Pocket Pils but for me, my homebrewed Bohemian Pilsner is even superior to
that product (no offense to Michael Jackson since he thinks it is the best
beer in America).
Perhaps dry hopped Bohemian Pilsners is an 'acquired' taste, but I must
confess that it was not an acquired taste for me. I still remember the first
batch of Perfect Pilsner that I brewed (boy, probably 5 years ago) and on my
first sip I said "Wow!". Needless to say, I have been pretty much brewing it
the same ever since; no sense messing with Perfection :-)
I apologize for the length of this posting but I thought that Russ should
see (in detail) that there are other opinions on the matter of dry hopping
lagers. I also want to give credit to Ray Daniels for his excellent recipe
of the Perfect Pilsner.
Jack Horzempa
King of Prussia, PA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:33:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Chili Beer
I have a bland, lifeless ale in the secondary. It
lacks malty notes and lacks even more hops. I don't
like fruit beers, yet i consider this a good chance to
experiement.
How many jalepanos (like how many oz or #s) per gallon
would make a good chili beer? I want light, spicy
notes, nothing overtly "hot". Any ideas?
Michael
=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 07:37:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Brew Man 333 <brewman333@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Refractometers and Hydrometers
Speaking about Cynmar Corp. in HBD #4190 (Sat 08
March), Kyle Mychajlonka said:
> In addition to the above they also have a range of
> Hydrometers for various uses (Alcohol, Wine,
Specific
> Gravity, Brix, Balling, Plato, and even Urine)
Urine! Now we can measure the FG of mass-produced
domestic lagers!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:49:47 -0500
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin@sprint.ca>
Subject: foaming stout woes
Hi all,
I just made my second all grain oatmeal stout, third over all. Every single
one foams when the bottles are opened. The beers are definetely not
overcarbonated- or dont appear to be once they are in the glass. The first 2
were certainly not infected, and the third seems fine as well , though it is
still young and I've had an infection appear a few weeks on before. Anyways,
someone told me a large amount of flakes (protein? nitrogen?) can be the
cause, or a boil of insufficient vigour. Has anyone else had this problem?
The most recent one finished at only 1.022 (OG 1.061) so it could still
have a teeny bit left to go, but I think it was done - overdid it on
maltodextrin, lactose most likely, mashed ~154F. But the one before finished
at 1.015 - not out of line for an oatmeal stout, and the first one was
similar.
Does this happen to anyone else besides me? I think I am cursed. It doesn't
happen to any of my other beers, even some that I overcarbonated through
carelessness.
OTOH, It tastes good and will still be my official St. Patrick's brew,
though I may have to decant the bottles into a pitcher first.
john
[892, 63] Apparent Rennerian (km)
"Actually John it uses a very complex algorithm to determine your average
time between "Generate" clicks, and from that can it figures out how drunk
you are, and what styles of beer you prefer. Obviously, you prefer obscure
Belgians!" - Drew Avis
Seen on a tee shirt - "The internet is full. Go away!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:00:23 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill@brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: CAP and Jeff Renner
Speaking of CAP and Jeff Renner, I heard a long
time ago that Jeff was writing a Style Series Book
on CAP. Any progress? How's that coming, Jeff?
I want my copy as soon as it's available!
Bill
[482.2, 105.9] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:11:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Micael Mullins <brewmiker@yahoo.com>
Subject: Frozen Grain Bill
I am quite sure this was a mistake but I am asking the
collective just in
case there is some chance I haven't ruined the
twenty-plus pounds of grain I
purchased last week.
I knew I wouldn't have time to brew until next week,
so last week, when I had
time to visit my LHBS, which is approximately two
hours drive away, I bought
the needed materials for two belgians, a dark and a
saison. Knowing I was two
weeks away from brewing, I froze all the ingredients
in my freezer.
Will this ruin the already milled grains? If so, what
effect does freezing
have on the malt? Hoping to brew Saturday...
Mike in Lapeer, MI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:22:01 -0500
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <rickdude02@earthlink.net>
Subject: ProMash Greed!!!!!!
I cannot believe the balls of Jeff Donovan!!
To use this forum to sell his product, just to pad his own wallet!!
This greed knows no bounds (or no bounds are now known... or no bounding
knowers know no, ah, nuts).
(this has been a tongue-in-cheek commentary)
Rick Theiner
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:58:25 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH@theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: TMS
Ok, I'm jumping into the fray on this one.
Charles Stewart points out the fact that TMS is running an add in
Zymurgy. Clearly, more than anything, this points to the fact that they
DO want "onesie - twosie" orders. If not, why would they run the add.
If so, then why in conjunction with the running of the add did they
raise the price?
Someone suggested that they may not maintain a stock of homebrewing size
hoppers and that one-off production is too expensive. Surely, when they
ran the add, they knew (or hoped) there would be an increase in small
orders and would have increased their stock of the pertinent sizes to
meet expected demand.
The only explanation is that they're trying to exploit a newfound
market. Obviously they're in need of a competitor. Anyone out there
work in SS fabrication?
That's my $0.005
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:22:25 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen@rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: CABA rule changes (long)
First of all, let me say that I am a dues paying, card carrying member of
both the Canadian Amateur Brewers Association (CABA) and the AHA.
I am extremely troubled by what I read in the latest edition of the CABA
newsletter. The following rule changes were approved by the CABA board to
apply to the upcoming Great Canadian Homebrew Conference (GCHC) in April
2003. The GCHC is a first round qualifying event for the AHA National
Homebrew Competition. Here is what they wrote verbatim:
1. Only craft-brewed beer, brewed in an amateur fashion, can be entered.
Craft-brewed beer, brewed in an amateur fashion, is defined as beer brewed
at home (BAH). (no change from the existing rules)
2. Competition among BAH entries is intended to emphasize the brewer's
creativity in brewing the competition entry. The use of commercially
prepared extract or wort as the sole ingredient in the recipe prior to
fermentation is not permitted. The entrant must have performed all of the
steps in the brewing process at his/her home setting in the case of BAH
entry.
3. All entries must be accompanied with a completed recipe sheet
illustrating the "creative" components of the recipe formulation. Recipes of
all winning entries may be published, space permitting, in the CABA Times
(the newletter).
Rationale: The rationale is that brewing beer for a competition requires
recipe formulation. Opening a kit and adding the yeast without adding any
new ideas or creativity is not meeting the spirit of the competition. The
Board plans to have a special edition of the CABA Times devoted to revising
these rules so your input will be sought.
rule changes came about as a result of a new product called FestaBrew from
Magnotta, which is basically sterile wort that only requires the yeast to be
pitched. They also state that the rule changes "will apply to the upcoming
March in Montreal (MiM) and GCHC competitions for this spring. We then plan
to consult the membership on these rule changes over the summer".
Well, if that isn't putting the cart before the horse, I don't know what is.
This is absolutely something that the membership should have been consulted
on before any changes took place.
First of all, the Magnotta FestaBrew kits are not appreciably different from
other wort-in-a-box kits such as BrewHouse that have been around for years.
The BrewHouse kit requires adding back some water and a pH adjustment
package, but they are functionally the same concept. Dump in your fermenter
and add the yeast. Take that concept far enough, even a pre-hopped extract
kit is the same thing, you just need to add more water. At the risk of
sounding a bit cynical, I suspect that this has suddenly become an issue
because the CABA board is largely based in Toronto Ontario, and Magnotta is
a southern Ontario company.
But back to the rule changes, the CABA board has no business imposing these
rule changes on Canadian brewers. The language of the ruling not only
excludes beers made solely from any kind of kit, it can even be interpreted
to mean that brewers can not use someone else's recipe verbatim. Go back and
re-read the rationale paragraph above and decide for yourselves whether that
is a valid interpretation, whether intended by the board or not.
I am all for making up your own recipes and brewing from scratch. That's how
I've always done it, because I enjoy the creative process. However, I would
not presume to tell other brewers that that is how it must be done. People
brew for a variety of reasons, some people just want to make beer quickly
and easily. They have every right to do that. More importantly, they have
every right to have their beers evaluated by trained judges at a
competition. Besides the competition side of it, the main benefit of
entering competitions is receiving qualified feedback to help people improve
in their hobby. There is still a lot that can go wrong outside of the actual
"brewing" process. Should these hobbyists not have the right to find out
that they are suffering from sanitation problems, or that their fermentation
techniques could use improvement?
Now, it would be bad enough if the CABA board ruling applied only to events
over which they have complete jurisdiction, such as MiM. They have applied
it to an event (GCHC) that should fall under the rules set out by the AHA.
The AHA has no such specific prohibition against yeast-ready worts. In fact,
they specifically state in their rules that the first round entries do not
even need to include a recipe. I invite you to read the AHA rules at
http://www.beertown.org/events/nhc/pdf/03rules_regs.pdf to see if I've
missed something.
In my opinion, CABA has over-stepped its authority here, and the AHA should
flat out tell them, these rule changes can not be applied to the GCHC. If
CABA wants to make its own rules, then perhaps the AHA should associate
itself with a non-CABA event for Canadian qualification in the future.
Disclaimer: These views are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of
the executive or members of the Winnipeg Brew Bombers homebrew club.
Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:51:21 -0600 (CST)
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Larry_Bristol?=" <Larry@DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Chili_beer?=
On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 08:46:23 -0800, Jim Bermingham <jbham6843@netscape.net>
ranted:
> I have tasted many "Chili Beers" in my time. Some I liked, some not.
> Most were too hot to really enjoy. I like spicy food and can set down
> with most anyone and hold my own in a pepper eating contest. But why
> make a beer that one or too is all you can drink and most people not
> even one?
> I was fortunate last October to be invited by Larry Bristol, to the
> Double Luck Station, for October Fest. Larry and his charming wife
> Marsha, did themselves proud, providing about 40 people with great food
> and beer. One of the beers Larry served was his Cerveza Chingaquedito
> con Chili. Cerveza Chingaquedito con Chili is a tasty beer, flavored
> with jalapeno peppers. Since most of the heat from the peppers comes
> from its seeds, they were remove so the beer did not inherit a lot of
> heat, only the pepper flavor. This beer went great with the Mexican
> food it was served with. I think everyone there had the beer with the
> Mexican food, including all the wives and girlfriends. Larry did a
> little something extra with the peppers to reduce the heat and enhance
> the flavor. He told me, but swore me to secrecy and said he would kill
> me if I told. Sense I will be seeing him at the Blubonnet in a few
> weeks, and the fact that I want to live, and will be wanting another
> invitation to his annual October Fest I will not let his recipe out.
> With a little encouragement however, he might.
And this is somehow related to the musings on Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:33:23
-0800 (PST) by Michael Hartsock <mhartsoc@netzero.com> to wit:
> I have a bland, lifeless ale in the secondary. It acks malty notes and
> lacks even more hops. I don't like fruit beers, yet i consider this a
> good chance to experiement.
>
> How many jalepanos (like how many oz or #s) per gallon would make a good
> chili beer? I want light, spicy notes, nothing overtly "hot". Any ideas?
Well, Michael, maybe such an experiment should work out OK; I guess it
depends on just how bland and lifeless your ale really is! :-)
Using jalapeno peppers does not *HAVE* to result in a lot of heat, and it is
really no secret (to those of us who regularly eat the little gems) that the
amount of heat can be controlled. Just to prove it is no secret, all you
have to do is refer to the recipe for the beer Jim mentioned having at my
last Oktoberfest. [I really need to be more careful about who I invite to
such things!] It is on my web site at the following URL:
http://www.doubleluck.com/things/brewery/recipes/Chingaquedito.html
[I also really need to work on shortening these names!] There you will see
the following note: "Half and remove the placenta and seeds from 6 large,
fresh jalapeno peppers, and add during secondary fermentation." [Note that
this is from a recipe for 10 gallons.]
OK, maybe there *IS* a secret --- the heat from the jalapeno pepper does not
really come from the seeds. It comes from the placenta, the interior "stem"
from which the seeds grow and a thin white membrane between the flesh of the
pepper and the seed chamber. The seeds are hot merely because they are in
close contact to all this for so long.
To make a beer with a wonderful jalapeno pepper character, but with
absolutely NO HEAT at all, use fresh, whole peppers about 4-6 inches long.
Cut them in half (the long way) and remove the placenta and seeds. Soak the
remaining flesh in vodka for 24-48 hours (I usually do this during primary
fermentation) to remove any heat from the flesh that was in contact with the
placenta, and to sanitize them. Put the peppers into a muslin or nylon bag
and add them to the beer during secondary fermentation (2-4 weeks). [Drink
the vodka; it makes a great martini!] Remove the peppers prior to bottling
or kegging the beer.
I wonder if there will be any jalapeno pepper beer at the Bluebonnet?
[P.S. - Sorry for misspelling the name of the pepper. The digest does not
seem to like the "n" with the tilde, claiming it is a non-ansii character.
This seems somewhat chauvinistic to me, gringo! <grin>]
=====
Larry Bristol
Bellville, TX
http://www.doubleluck.com
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4193, 03/12/03
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