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HOMEBREW Digest #4175
HOMEBREW Digest #4175 Wed 19 February 2003
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Re: Where to buy quater/half barrel legal kegs (Tom Davidson)
Dry Yeast ("Bill Tobler")
Flavoring extracts (Todd Kenna)
Re:Where to buy quarter/half barrel legal kegs (FRASERJ)
Dry Yeast is Just Fine (Matt Comstock)
Dry vs. Liquid Yeast Test (Bob Hall)
Hydrometers (bruce)
RE: Draft boxes (Michael Hartsock)
RE: Bill, Bill, Bill (Michael Hartsock)
RE: Hydrometers (Michael Hartsock)
Re: Fossil Fuel ("Jonathan Royce")
Re: George's $3.50 hopback and some commercial stuff ("Michael O'Donnell")
Equipment and yeast ("Tracy P. Hamilton")
Source of Stainless Steel parts, some that could be used for brew ("Romanowsky, Paul")
Hydrometers & Dry Yeast ("Drew Avis")
RE: freezing beers (Brian Lundeen)
Re: RIMS, finally and 4.5kW electric brewing (Daniel Chisholm)
Alright.... (Bill Wible)
energy sources (larry chaney)
Re: Hydrometers ("Ken Anderson")
Yeast taste.. ("Eyre")
Brewing woes and success's ("Chris M")
Brewing woes and sucess - II ("Chris M")
Entries Now Being Accepted - St. Patrick's Cascadia Cup ("Iain & Heather")
Re:Where to buy kegs ("Kevin Morgan")
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:45:30 -0500
From: Tom Davidson <tj.davidson@comcast.no.net>
Subject: Re: Where to buy quater/half barrel legal kegs
> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:10:23 -0500
> From: "Gilbert Milone II" <gilbertmilone@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Where to buy quater/half barrel legal kegs
>
> I'd like to make a new brew kettle, because the clown who welded mine used
> non-stainless wire, so it is corroding now. Does anyone know where I could
> buy a quater barrell or two from? I would buy a ready made one, but I'm
> short on cash and would like to craft my own from all the parts I already
> have.
http://www.kegs.com/buildyourown.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:48:07 -0500
From: "Bill Tobler" <WCTOBLER@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Dry Yeast
Yesterday, Gregman said he brews extract beer with dry
yeast. No way, Greg. You can't possibly make good
beer like that.
Ok, you can send the sixer to me at
301 Azalea
Lake Jackson, TX 77566
Any one else out there who uses dry yeast, can send a
sixer to the above address. I like largers, not too
hoppy and well balanced.
If I knew it was this easy to get free homebrew, I
would have quit homebrewing long ago and started
posting more often. :>)
Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:20:16 -0800
From: Todd Kenna <Todd_K@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Flavoring extracts
Has anyone used fruit flavoring extracts in their beers? Do they instill a
"chemical" or "fake" flavor as opposed to real fruit?
any recommended brands/sources/flavors?
Thanks
Todd
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:47:44 -0500
From: FRASERJ@Nationwide.com
Subject: Re:Where to buy quarter/half barrel legal kegs
I got mine from a metal recycling yard, $0.30/pound, ended up being about
$15.00 per keg.
John M. Fraser
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:55:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Comstock <mccomstock@yahoo.com>
Subject: Dry Yeast is Just Fine
After a long time away, I happened to read the
comments about dry vs. liquid yeasts. To weigh
in:
I used to dabble with liquid yeast but for the
past two years have used nothing but Nottingham.
Cheap, easy to use, easy to store, beer tastes
great.
I think Wyeast is great for making style beers,
but when I'm making the house pale ale, I don't
like to mess with starters, etc. Why use 1056
when the 'ol Nott works so well?
Matt in Cincinnati
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:22:35 -0500
From: Bob Hall <rallenhall@toast.net>
Subject: Dry vs. Liquid Yeast Test
My small brewing group recently participated in an unscientific, blind
taste test regarding liquid/dry yeasts. I made a 5 gal. batch of lightly
hopped, all-grain blonde ale, divided it among six gallon jugs, and pitched
five dry yeasts (Munton's, Cooper's, Nottingham, Whitbred, and Safale-04)
and one liquid as a control (White Labs 001 - California Ale). Ales were
bottled directly from the primarys, and all procedures including priming
level and bottling date were consistent.
On Super Bowl Sunday seven of us (five guys, two ladies) gathered around a
table for the blind taste test and the ranking of brews from 1 (best) to 6
(worst). The overall winner was the White Labs Californian ... BUT ... it
did not receive a majority of first place votes. That honor was shared by
several varieties. It was interesting that a tasters #1 ale could have been
the next voters #4. The scores seemed to be across the board with the
exception of Whitbred, which was #6 on all sheets. In fairness, it was the
only yeast that did not have an expiration marking on the packet, so I have
no idea how old it was. Also, some of these yeasts probably are not at
their best in a blonde ale, but I tried to brew something that would let
the yeast characteristics shine through.
General comments on the brews/yeasts: WPL-001 = smooth; Nottingham =
dryest; Safale-04 = sweetest; Munton's = good flavor; Coopers = tart.
I'm not saying that this was at all definitive .... just a little fun. All
in all, it told us that 1) flavor is in the mouth of the beholder, 2) good
beers with unique profiles can be made with both dry and liquid yeasts, and
3) if you know the profiles of the strains, including dry yeasts, you can
match them to your desired outcome.
Bob Hall,
Napoleon, OH
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:22:43 -0800
From: bruce <vze4pvxk@verizon.net>
Subject: Hydrometers
Hi, I am also using my old hydrometer I bought in 1978. It has not changed at
all. As long as I stick with the same scale, what difference does it make,
really, if it is perfect? I like my beer, and that is what matters. Remember,
this is beer we are making, not rocket ships.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:47:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Draft boxes
I don't know about the tubing you used. Is it vinyl,
PE, or PP, or latex?
If I were you, I would just go to the hardware store
and get HDPE white tubing. Its very cheap, and I am
very confident that it won't release off flavors.
I remember reading somewhere (don't remember where)
that someone bought tubing from a beer store and it
tasted bad. Something about a roll being labeled
wrong or cut from the wrong roll. Its always a
possibility. But if you go pick it out and it is
labeled foodgrade HDPE... you can't go wrong.
mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:56:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Bill, Bill, Bill
Maybe we should ignore the trolls who pretend to know
everything about beer against common opinion and
common knowledge.
W(B)ill they go away?
Dry yeast is good, there is no microbiological reason
why it would produce different beers other than the
strain that was freeze dried, which is the issue not
the fact that it is dry. If you take a freeze dried
strain and make a starter with it, and the yeast
reproduces (as all yeast does), it is no different
than a liquid yeast started. At that point, both are
live yeast in medium.
The only problem with dry yeast is the purity of the
strain in the package and storage conditions. This
has nothing to do with the fact that it is dry, but a
prolem with the manufacturer.
BTW, Bill, I'm a trained microbiologist, so I'm pretty
sure that i'm not an idiot when it comes to yeast.
mike
University of Missouri - Columbia
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:02:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Hydrometers
This is a common problem. I'm going over the Fisher
Sci catalog listings for hydrometers Couple of
variables:
1) does it meet ASTM standards for accuracy?
2) Is it calibrated, i.e. does it have a certificate?
3) What temperature is is calibrated to? 60? 68?
4) How many mL of sample does it require for an
accurate sample. I surmise that too narrow of a
sample tube would affect accuracy.
5) All devices have an error margin. Do you know what
it is?
A one point calibration for hydrometers (in my
opinion) is not sufficient. the following was posted
to another group:
S.G. grams/liter lbs/gallon
0.9982 0.000 0.000
1.0099 30.3 0.2528
1.0219 61.31 0.5117
1.0423 114.7 0.9568
This will give you a linear error correction factor
mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:35:02 -0500
From: "Jonathan Royce" <jtroyce@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fossil Fuel
"I didn't realise uranium was a fossil fuel???
Reuben
W.A"
For those who are splitting hairs along with their atoms, I should have
said:
"...electricity is produced by first burning fossil fuels or by a nuclear
reaction that
creates heat, and (regardless of the energy source) today's plants are (at
best) 40% efficient."
Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:56:13 -0800
From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: George's $3.50 hopback and some commercial stuff
George,
Thanks for a most interesting post...
>Almost all commercial breweries (and many homebrewers) utilize a whirlpool
>rest to remove hot break and hop debris from the wort. At home and at the
>brewpub the procedure is the same: stir the wort for a minute or so (until
>it is all moving at a few rpm), then stop stirring and allow it to settle
>for 10-30 minutes (the more shallow your kettle, the less time it will take
>for the stuff to settle to the bottom center).
This is something that I have wondered about for a while. Once i have the
break material settled in the middle of the kettle, how to best separate it
from the wort? My kettle has a spigot with a dip-tube down to the middle
of the bottom. Should I drain off the break first and discard it, or
should I move the tube off to the side a ways?
Thanks,
mike
Monterey, CA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:06:46 -0600
From: "Tracy P. Hamilton" <hamilton@uab.edu>
Subject: Equipment and yeast
I think equipment does matter. So does the use it
is put to - technique.
Consider cooling of wort - does a counterflow vs.
immersion chiller matter? Definitely yes. How it
affects the brew is less clear, but the received wisdom
is that the fast break is better. In both cases the brewer
is taking steps to cool the wort.
Then there is filtering. Some members in our club did a little
experiment on a filtered vs. unfiltered Kolsch, and the filtered
Kolsch won a best of show in a homebrew competition.
This was not due to a difference in brewing technique.
About yeast, of course it matters, too. Dry yeast is
just fine, and enables those who don't want to bother
with starters (oxygen, stir plates?) to have very healthy yeast
pitches. There are fewer dry yeasts available, so
for brewers interested in variety it is not as practical.
Tracy P. Hamilton
Birmingham Brewmasters
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:35:25 -0500
From: "Romanowsky, Paul" <paul.romanowsky@siemens.com>
Subject: Source of Stainless Steel parts, some that could be used for brew
Just thought I would pass this info along. I was in my local hardware store
asking about Stainless Steel pipe fittings and they directed my to a local
supplier, (about 7 miles from my home). I looked them up on the web today
and found they have a lot of good stainless steel items that would be useful
in brew equipment. They do mail order also. Here's the link:
http://www.jschmidtstainless.com/intro.htm
Then click on the HARDWARE link
Paul Romanowsky
Harleysville, PA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:39:41 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis@hotmail.com>
Subject: Hydrometers & Dry Yeast
Brewers: last night I had to poor fortune to knock my hydrometer on the
floor, where it shattered. Perhaps this is for the best - it was a very
cheap model, though it always seemed fairly accurate to me... anyway, all
the posts about hydrometer accuracy have me thinking - is there a brand of
hydrometer that folks can recommend? Where does one get a super-accurate
hydrometer? All I can find at the LHBS are the cheap $10 kind.
On the never-ending yeast debate, I'd like to throw out this challenge to
Bill: let's go head-to-head in a competition and see if your liquid yeast
beer can beat my dry yeast swill. I just brewed a porter and schwartzbier
this weekend and pitched dry yeast - S-04 in the porter, S-189 in the
Schwartzbier. I plan to enter the porter in an upcoming comp, and the
Schwartzbier if it's ready. I'm also going to enter an American Light Lager
(no hiding bad yeast flavours there, eh?) which was fermented w/ DCL 34/70.
So, send one of your beers in any of these styles to March in Montreal
(http://www.realbeer.com/caba/) and let's put this dead horse to rest. Oh
yeah, my system did *not* cost $4000! (Unless you count the time I spent on
it...)
And if this debate has sapped your will and creativity for naming beers,
check out my new Random Beer Name Generator:
http://www.stragebrew.ca/beername.php .
Cheers!
Drew Avis, Member of Barleyment for Greater Metro Merrickville, Ontario
http://www.strangebrew.ca
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:54:51 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen@rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: freezing beers
Jeff Renner presents us with a bit of a poser:
>
> "Freddie Freshman left five bottles of beer on his window sill
> overnight. Their alcohol contents were 3.5%, 3.7%, 3.9%, 4.1% and
> 4.3% by weight. The first two froze, the remaining three did not.
> What was the range of minimum temperatures overnight?"
>
The correct answer is, of course....
-40C. The remaining beers were stolen by Freddie's friends who knew about
his penchant for leaving beers outside, drank them, and thus they did not
freeze. And for what it's worth, I think Cliff Clavin should have won on
Jeopardy. ;-)
Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:35:23 -0400
From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc@nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: RIMS, finally and 4.5kW electric brewing
Lou King wrote:
(...built his RIMS....)
Congratulations!
> Everything went fine, with only a little concern about the mash getting
> stuck. I believe there is a line between pumping too quickly (stuck
> mash) and pumping too slowly (scorched wort). I don't know how fine
> that line is, though. Turning the pump off (to let the weight of the
> wort clear out the false bottom), then on seemed to do the trick.
I visited your web site, and saw that one of your to-do items is to
"insert a vacuum gauge after the mash tun, but before the pump to
measure the pump suction"
What I do is have a tee fitting attached to my mash tun outlet. On the
branch I have about 20" of clear siphon tubing (the "run" side goes to
my pump inlet). This effectively acts as a "vacuum gage", in that the
wort level gives a direct reading of how much suction you're pulling. I
usually limit my pump's outflow such that the liquid level in this
"sight gauge" is an inch or two above the tee fitting. This means that
I am draining liquid at a rate slightly less that wide-open-gravity
flow....
I have thought about, but have yet to turn the "branch" side so that it
is pointing down, so that I can measure several inches of "negative"
pressure (without sucking in air). The idea here is to increase my flow
rate, yet be able to measure it so that I can find out at what point
compaction happens, and then avoid that. Someday Real Soon Now, I will
do this, really..... ;-)
A quick note on a query from a few days ago re: hybrid gas/electric
brewing. I use an all-electric brewery, a converted keg (50L) with a
3kW and a 4.5kW element, each controlled by a 79 cent light switch. The
3kW element on it's own produces an adequate boil (actually, I'd ideally
like to be able to throttle is back to 50-75% power - might do this Real
Soon Now). The 4.5kW element produces an overly violent boil (it can't
be left running unattended). For heating up water, it's really nice to
be able to use both elements, but if I had too I could (at some increase
in time) brew using a kettle with just one 3kW element. I've also run
the 3kW element at 120V (therefore 750 watts) --> this is too little to
sustain a boil (I guesstimate therefore that my uninsulated kettle
probably has about 1kW of heat loss).
FWIW.
- --
- Daniel
Fredericton, NB Canada
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:41:56 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill@brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Alright....
Alright, Alright, Alright
Can we just let this die? Please?
If you're making good beer with dry yeast, more power
to you. I don't have a high opinion of it, and that's
not going to change. Apparently, I'm in the minority.
Dry yeast is great. I believe you. Nobody has to
send me any beer. In fact, I have a better idea.
To show I'm a man, for the rest of this week, I will
send a free pack of dry yeast to anybody from this
digest who emails me their address. Limited time
offer, act right now.
Experienced brewers tend to have better systems, so
maybe it seems the better and more expensive systems
are a reflection of an experienced brewer, not the
other way around. I can accept that. I was wrong
there. Fine. I agree.
Let this die. I was wrong. You've all convinced me.
Let's all move on to another topic.
Thanks
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:43:48 -0800 (PST)
From: larry chaney <chaneylj@yahoo.com>
Subject: energy sources
In the US, nuculear energy is the source for
approximately 20% of electricity generated. And since
a nuclear plant is basically a steam plant, I doubt
that the efficiency is much over 30%. Coal accounts
for approximately 50% of the electricity generated,
and the efficiency of coal plants is at best in the
low 30s. A modern gas turbine combined cycle plant
can achieve 60% (LHV) efficiency. But whether it is
wise to burn precious natural gas to generate
electricity is another topic altogether. A much
better use of natural gas is to heat your brew kettle.
relax, have a home brew
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:59:33 -0500
From: "Ken Anderson" <aken75@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Hydrometers
Doug, I share your annoyance. Here's what I did, using some of the
information from this site,
http://www.knology.net/~sprevost/beerwine/cal.htm, which I hope is accurate.
First, I simply found the temperature at which my hydrometer reads 1.000.
Sixty degrees doesn't work? Find the temperature that does - 80, in my case.
Next I weighed out 33 grams of sugar, then topped up with water for a total
of 150 grams. This gives 22% by weight of dissolved sugar, and will give you
enough liquid to fill your cylinder. This should read 1.092 with an accurate
hydrometer. Then I heated (or cooled, as the case may be) the solution to 80
degrees, and measured. I did it three times, and got 92, 90, and 90. Close
enough for me, given the errors that I may have introduced in the process.
My conclusion? I've got a hydrometer that's accurate at its newly determined
calibration temperature of 80 degrees. Actually, 80 is a pretty handy
temperature to work with. Now to just keep from breaking it!
Ken Anderson
- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 12/25/02
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:57:08 -0500
From: "Eyre" <meyre@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Yeast taste..
Hey!
I just finished the whole process here of fermenting a store bought (stop
and Shop) gallon of apple juice. Just grabbed a gallong, champagne yeasted
it, and let 'er rip for a week or so (I forger how long, really..) bottled
and primed, and now I've tasted the first two bottles. Quite a fun drink for
the $2.40 I've got into it.. Only problem I see (taste?) is that the yeast
flavor is REALLY apparent. And I mean REALLY. It's like a chunk of the yeast
off the bottom oer mouthful.. but it's so good otherwise, if I could just
get rid of the yeaste flavor, it'd be great.. what's my problem here? How do
I nuke that flavor from the finished product?
Mike
Please note my new email address:
meyre@sbcglobal.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:49:28 +1100
From: "Chris M" <chrismac_aus@hotmail.com>
Subject: Brewing woes and success's
Hi All,
I bottle an Amber Ale ( extract brew ) on the weekend and used White Labs
irish yeast, i decided to re-pitch another brew ontop of the yeast bed in
the fermenter ( there was a period of about 2 hours where the fermenter was
empty except for the yeast bed as i had to bottle the Ale first ), i was
also concerned about the old yeast/hops scum at the top of the fermenter but
proceeded ahead without touching the fermenter in any way shape or form, i
threw in the extract, added the usual light malt/dextrose/maltodextrin, put
the lid on and left it alone, silently praying it wasn't going to be a
disaster.
The air lock was bubbling after a period of approx 8 hours which was
amazing. I had gone out earlier so not really sure what time it kicked off,
well 3.5 days later it has FG of 1005, it wasn't a particularly big brew but
it is a little cloudy as it is quite warm this time of year, the beer is
rather fruity and light in flavour, i will add some gelatine finings in the
next day and then bottle.
Q: When brewing like this do you clean the old scum from the top inch of the
fermenter or do you leave it alone, i decided to leave it.
I have tasted the brew and it is fine. I think in the future i will try and
have the brew ready to go straight onto the yeast bed as soon as th e
fermenter is empty.
Should i be concerned about how long i leave the yeast bed alone in the
fermenter, i usually transfer to another carboy and bulk prime before
bottling. I brew inside so there are no major temp fluctuations.
Thanks.
Chris.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:00:01 +1100
From: "Chris M" <chrismac_aus@hotmail.com>
Subject: Brewing woes and sucess - II
Hi All,
I decided to try a batch of beer using 1.5kg of honey with a cheap can of
extract, i took the attitude of 'experiment' and i was in a rush and did not
boil the ingredients feeling all would be well, i did add a litre of hot
water to the hops for about 5 mins to break them up.
I had a sachet of Safale dry yeast and decided to rehydrate it in luke warm
water in a glas jug and then covered it with plastic wrap and left it alone
for about an hour, i threw the ingredients into the fermenter and then
pitched the yeast.
At bottling it tasted fine although a little sweet, summer in Aus can be
vicious and i made the mistake of leaving the bottles out in the sun for
more than a few days.
After a month they tasted suspiciouse so i visited my LHBS and they
confirmed it was infected - describing a taste of rubber ??
I believe the heat affected them more than my earlier assumption of not
boiling the ingredients prior to adding to the fermenter, on some occasions
i have boiled the extract can in the past but the LHBS dont't feel it is
beneficial as you boil out the hop oils and loose bitterness and arome so i
have stopped boiling the can extract, at worst i did not boil the honey and
hops at all.
Comments.
Thanks.
Chris.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:57 -0800
From: "Iain & Heather" <house.cat@verizon.net>
Subject: Entries Now Being Accepted - St. Patrick's Cascadia Cup
We are now accepting entries for the 7th Annual World Renowned St.
Patrick's Cascadia Cup Homebrew Competition.
The competition will be on Saturday March 8, 2003 at Bear Creek Brewing
Co. / Northwest Brewhouse & Grill in Redmond, WA.
(http://www.bearcreekbrewing.com/) The competition is BJCP and AHA
sanctioned, and as always, we can use as many judges as possible.
The competition features cash award certificates for the top three
finishers in each flight and more great prizes for first place and
Best of Show winners. Up to three winning beers will be brewed by
our region's local microbreweries. This is the largest industry-
sponsored homebrew event in the State, if not the Pacific Northwest!
To help reduce paperwork, please use the Online Registration Wizards:
Judge Registration Wizard:
http://www.HordsOfFun.Com/hbc/judgewiz.asp?w=0A0E100707
Entry Registration Wizard:
http://www.HordsOfFun.Com/hbc/regwiz.asp?w=0A0E100707
Additional competition details are available on our website:
http://www.cascadebrewersguild.org/
Thanks in advance,
Iain Ross
Cascade Brewers Guild
7th Annual St. Patrick's Cascadia Cup Homebrew Competition Organizer
house.cat@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:32:33 -0500
From: "Kevin Morgan" <kevin.morgan2@verizon.net>
Subject: Re:Where to buy kegs
Gilbert Milone II said "Where to buy quater/half barrel legal kegs
I'd like to make a new brew kettle,"
snip
My reply
Try the Fleamarket on HBD.ORG
Kevin, brewing in south jersey (or at least I will when the blizzard stops)
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4175, 02/19/03
*************************************
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