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HOMEBREW Digest #4119
HOMEBREW Digest #4119 Sat 14 December 2002
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
RE: Using an A/C for a beer cooler ("JZ")
Dry hopping in cornys ("Michael Maag")
RE: pumpkin pie beer (keith)
Re: Bottle Conditioning (Jeff Renner)
Re: Brewing as a profession ("Mike")
Re: Cider clearing.. how much? ("Jim Dunlap")
Re: Hop bags and bleach (Jeff Renner)
Re: Bottle Conditioning (Michael Grice)
Woodworking - Beer Case Plans? (Bill Wible)
RE: Bottle Conditioning ("Sven Pfitt")
Gott cooler thermometer placement ("jeff")
MCAB Qualifier and entry info? (Bev Blackwood II)
Re: Yeast info pages (Rama Roberts)
Converting to natural gas ("Jason")
Old Water Questions (AJ)
Head Retention ("Jeff Stith")
Cylindroconical Fermenter (Jennifer/Nathan Hall)
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:36:18 -0800
From: "JZ" <jamilz@citlink.net>
Subject: RE: Using an A/C for a beer cooler
Unlike a few others, I've had tremendous success with my A/C walkin-cooler.
I heard all sorts of horror stories about why it wouldn't work from lots of
different folks. However, it was Regan at Beer, Beer and Morebeer that
explained how to make it work.
First, he explained that an A/C unit didn't pull moisture out of the air as
well as the commercial units, but it DID pull moisture out of the air. The
trick is to do three things, seal your walkin space so no moisture gets in
(a continuous moisture barrier), insulate the heck out of it, and step down
the temperature in stages so the unit doesn't ice up.
I have a three different temp probes on my 4 x 6 x 7 foot walkin cooler.
I've got the cooler working at 36F (measured on the beer bottles) for the
past 12 months. One is a high/low on the air coming out of the unit. Last
week it registered 2.3F! (Of course, outside ambient was around 45, so that
helped.) Yes, I'm sure I'm pulling liquid through the compressor, but I'm
betting that $150 clearance A/C unit will go at least 5 years before it
breaks, probably 20.
I bought a 12,000 btu clearance unit from Fry's for $150. I opened the front
panel and pulled the thermostat wire and routed it directly to the switch,
bypassing the thermostat. I then hooked up a Ranco temp controller from
http://www.morebeer.com which I slowly worked down to 36F over several days.
I live near Sacramento, California and last summer there were plenty of hot,
drippy, 100F+ days, with at least one week around 110F. The unit never
skipped a beat.
The walkin is actually half of a shed. I filled the stud walls with regular
fiberglass insulation, then put two 2" polyurethane sheets to give me 4" all
around. I sealed the seams with that funky pink tape that makes an airtight
seal after it sits for a day. (About $11 per roll, I think.)
For the door, I made a bevel cut through the panels, staggering them about 3
inches. I put a little weatherstrip gasket in there and used more pink tape.
Thanks Reagan!!! You saved me from buying a $1500 used walkin!!!
I've got approximately 60 cases of beer in there sitting at 36F. Why I'm
doing that is a whole other story. :-)
JZ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 08:15:24 -0500
From: "Michael Maag" <MichaelMaag@doli.state.va.us>
Subject: Dry hopping in cornys
It is important to note, even with a very tight weave nylon bag,
do not use pelletized hops. Only whole flower hops or plugs
are suitable. The powered pelletized hops will filter through
the bag, and you will have green beer. After a week of drawing
off a pint each evening as a nightcap (weird dreams) as the powder
settled out, the beer was great though.
Mike Maag, in the Shenandoah Valley, VA.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:54:20 -0500
From: keith <kellum@adamsadv.com>
Subject: RE: pumpkin pie beer
Byron
You'll probably end up with a better beer if you forget the pumpkin and
just use the spices to get the pumpkin pie taste.
I seem to remember researching the same subject a few years ago and
finding that other brewers had come to this conclusion.
Cheers!
Keith
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:01:26 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Bottle Conditioning
"Kenneth Peters" <kpeters6@cox.net> writes:
>In his book, "Homebrewing Guides", Dave Miller states that in bottle
>conditioned beer, the yeast will have fermented the priming sugar within 24
>hours and the remaining time is only required for the beer to absorb the CO2.
>If Dave is correct then a correct procedure MIGHT look like this: 1- prime
>beer and let ferment in bottle at room temperature for 3 days, 2- refrigerate
>beer and shake each bottle daily to facilitate CO2 absorbsion. I've searched
>the archives on this subject and there seems to be a majority counter opinion
>that the fermentation process takes longer and that other significant changes
>are occurring at this time. .What is the current thinking on this? If Dave is
>right, couldn't one save several weeks from fermentor to bladder :)
I still think that Dave is full of CO2 on this. If it were the case,
then you would notice a really big HISS! when you opened a bottle two
days after priming. As it is, you get barely a pff.
As CO2 is produced molecule by molecule by the yeast as it
metabolizes the sugar (also molecule by molecule), I cannot imagine
any mechanism whereby the CO2 would not go immediately into solution
in situ rather than rise to the top of the bottle and then dissolve
later.
Have any of you Nashville brewers asked Dave what HIS current
thinking is on this?
BTW, I do think that occasional tipping of primed bottles to mix the
sugary beer and yeast helps accelerate carbonation, but even that is
probably of minimal help.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:12:26 -0800
From: "Mike" <Mike@Bronosky.com>
Subject: Re: Brewing as a profession
I wonder if one of the major problems with brewpubs is not the same as for
any business.
(These may be wrong, I'm going from memory, but as a general statement they
are true.)
Most new businesses do not survive 1 year not alone 5 years. The reasons
they don't survive: not enough start-up money, too much debt, unrealistic
business plan.
A local brewpub started something like 5 or 6 years ago. They bought the
best German 10 Hexaliter brewery there was, $450,000. OUCH! This was put in
a nice restauraunt. The kitchen was A/Ced, most of the cooling equipment had
heat exchangers on the roof of a 5 stroy building taken there with water.
The ventilation system, someone could smoke next to you and most likely you
would not smell it. Nice. Problem was, when they got through building the
facilities they were something like $2,000,000 in debt. That is OK in a town
with enough customers that would patronize it.
Well, when they opened the doors they envited all the doctors, lawers,
government officials and other big-wigs but the union leaders were snubbed.
I know, a good friend of mine was president of the local CSX IBEW. Now who
drinks most of your beer, doctors, lawers, government officials and other
big-wigs or the everyday hourly worker? They also hired a German brewmaster.
This brewmaster used wheat yeast in all the beers except for the one lager
that was made. It sold do good they couldn't keep it in stock. Instead of
buying another lagering tank they stopped brewing it. A half million dollar
brewery and not a lagering vessel to be had. Piss poor management!
All the ales had a wheat beer taste. And the brewmaster would set at the bar
and drink, guess what beer. Miller Lite. Would some one pick the guy up that
just fainted.
What I'm saying is, of all the brewpubs that make it and don't make it. I
wonder if the reason is because the public care for brewpubs or because of
management's poor planning and management. The fact that brewpubs start-up
and survive proves that they can make it. Too many managers and investors
are under the impression that "If you buiild it they will come."
Yes they will but if your product, service and priceing is bad...
Oh, the cost of a pint of the above brewpub's beer was in the low teens.
Right where it should have been.
Mike
- ---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 07:22:47 -0800
From: "Jim Dunlap" <jdpils@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Cider clearing.. how much?
Greetings,
I made my first 5 gal batch of cider last year with unpasturized cider from
a local mill.
I added 5tsp of potassium metabisulfite mixed according to instruction (I
think it yielded 75ppm) and 1.5 tsp pectic enzyme 24 hrs before oxygenating
and
pitching my yeast, WL English Cider from vial. The ferment went for about 4
weeks total SG=1050 FG=.999. I bottled with 1 ounce of pasturized cider. I
never recall the cider ever being cloudy. It did take a long time for
sulfur to dimimish.
I hope this helps. Either it beginners luck or great instructions from my
local homebrew shop, Mountain Homebrew Supply & Wine Supply (PS - My club
Cascade brewer's Guild meets there and I think its an outstanding shop)
Cheers,
Jim Dunlap
Woodinville WA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:29:36 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Hop bags and bleach
David Towson <dtowson@comcast.net> writes from Bel Air, MD
>The hop bags I've seen are made of Nylon, which is damaged by Chlorine
>bleach. If yours are Nylon, I hope you don't use a very long soak, and
>you rinse them well afterwards.
Good to point that out.
Mine appear to be nylon, but the bleach solution isn't very strong,
and I must confess that I don't bleach them every time, only when
they've become stained by the beer. I soak them in the keg full of
bleach water, and, of course, bleach is dangerous to stainless steel,
too. But, again, a fairly weak solution and short contact time (few
hours) is probably the reason I haven't had problems.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:29:49 -0600
From: Michael Grice <grice@binc.net>
Subject: Re: Bottle Conditioning
"Kenneth Peters" <kpeters6@cox.net> wrote:
>In his book, "Homebrewing Guides", Dave Miller states that in bottle
>conditioned beer, the yeast will have fermented the priming sugar within
>24 hours and the remaining time is only required for the beer to absorb
>the CO2. If Dave is correct then a correct procedure MIGHT look like
[...]
I'm not entirely sure I buy this (although if true I think you had an
interesting idea). For instance, I bottled my last batch the Sunday
before last. A week after I bottled it, I opened one. It had little or
no carbonation, and tasted sweet still. Wednesday night I opened another
one, and it had begun to carbonate (albeit not completely).
Temperature shouldn't be a factor, as the beer is stored upstairs
against an interior wall, where we keep the temperature fairly warm.
I would buy the idea that the yeast ferments all the priming sugar
within 24 hours, but it seems likely to me that you're likely to have
some lag time depending on the yeast population in the bottled beer and
on the health of the yeast.
This is admittedly anecdotal evidence, and I should have taken hydrometer
readings from my last two samples to support my position. Maybe on the
next batch...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:37:26 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill@brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Woodworking - Beer Case Plans?
Hello, Everybody.
I'm looking for woodworking plans to build
one of those old wooden beer crates to store
Grolsh bottles in. The cardboard boxes they
come in are cheap and fall apart after not much
use.
So far, all I can find is:
http://realbeer.com/spencer/beercase.html
And it looks like this is a 6 x 4 (24) case
for 12oz bottles. I need a 4 x 5 (20) case
for Grolsch bottles, which are a little bigger.
Anybody know of anyplace that sells these cases
commercially, either as a built crate or as a kit
you can build yourself?
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:27:26 -0500
From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Bottle Conditioning
Kenneth Peters says;
>In his book, "Homebrewing Guides", Dave Miller states that in bottle
>conditioned beer, the yeast will have fermented the priming sugar >within
>24 hours and the remaining time is only required for the beer >to absorb
>the CO2.
So the CO2 is all in the headspace?
If this were true, when you popped the cap off a bottle of beer after 24
hrs, it would be under excessivly high pressure and make lots of Pffttt
noise. Not so. The CO2 is absorbed into solution as it it generated.
Think of what would happen if this were not the case..
Just for rough calculations, assume a 12oz bottle with 1 oz headspace and
3V/V carbonation. You would have 36 ounce volumes of CO2 compressed into a
1oz volume of headspace. At STP we have 15PSI, so the 36 volumes would be an
astronomical 540PSI pressure! Talk about bottle bombs!
I have opened bottles after three days and not gotten any significant
pressure release noise. Recapped and a week later it was carbonated and did
give pressure release noise. This is directly opposite what Dave Miller
writes.
Dave be wrong.
Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian
"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von
Bismarck
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:13:25 -0600
From: "jeff" <philosophersstone@gbronline.com>
Subject: Gott cooler thermometer placement
I use a 5 gallon Gott cooler for my mash/lauter
tun. I bought a Thermothingy from Zymico and used
it to install my metal stem thermometer. It works
very well with no leaks. My problem is that I think
I installed the thermometer too high up the side of
the cooler. I located it approximately 3/4 up the
side from the bottom, where there is a flat spot
with no ridges. Unfortunately, this puts the
thermometer just below the liquid level (maybe 1-3
inches) for most of my mashes. I fear that my
temperature readings are not accurate due to the
thermometer location. What do you say? If I move
it, how should I patch the hole that would leave?
Jeff Pursley
Fellowship of Oklahoma Ale Makers
Tulsa, OK
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:42:14 -0600
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2@bdb2.com>
Subject: MCAB Qualifier and entry info?
Does anyone here know when (or if) the MCAB will be posting entry
deadlines and shipping details on their website? Thanks to a good year
for our club competitively we have quite a few area MCAB Qualifiers,
but a lot of them are first-timers. The sooner we could get our hands
on some details, the better. We'd also like to see a list of
qualifiers, if possible.
-BDB2
Bev D. Blackwood II
Competition Coordinator
The Foam Rangers
http://www.foamrangers.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:12:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Rama Roberts <rama@retro.eng.sun.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast info pages
Bill writes:
>Have you seen:
>
>http://www.skotrat.com/brewrats/yeast.cfm
Very nice! But its still missing lots of stuff, like:
WL Belgian/Canadian Ale = Unibroue
WL German Bock = Ayinger
WL Zurich Lager = Samichlaus
Any Brewrats out there? I'll help compile the info if you can update the pages.
- --rama
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:49:46 -0600
From: "Jason" <jhayes75@cox.net>
Subject: Converting to natural gas
I was wondering if anyone has successfully converted from propane to natural
gas burners?
I drilled my cajun cooker orifice to 1/8 inch. This seems to work but would
like to know how i can increase btu. There is a 4 inch blue flame and the
rest is yellow. I used a needle valve to regulate the gas. This might be all
there is or maybe someone knows more.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:54:35 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel@cox.net>
Subject: Old Water Questions
RE Jim Dunlap's questions in #4115 (sorry it took so long to get around
to it): At the levels of hardness mentioned the water is still soft and,
assuming that there isn't lots of sodium or potassium in it (which I
wouldn't expect as I believe most of the water in your area comes from
rain runoff) it shouldn't be too alkaline. As it is actually the
alkalinity that one worries about you shouldn't be concerned about the
small increase in pH. The increased hardness will help to offset the pH
somewhat and I would expect mash pH with the "harder" water to be less
that the pH earlier (though not by much). Given low alkalinity it should
require very little acid to tweak the pH to exactly where you want it so
that carrying over the flavor of lactate shouldn't be a concern. I still
prefer the "natural" method of adding a bit of crystal for this job
(though fully recognize that it's a personal preference which you may
not share).
With such soft water and any high kilned malt at all I'd expect low pH
to be more of a problem and apparently it is. There are several ways to
combat this and I think most brewers would reach for chalk (calcium
carbonate) as their first choice as it neutralized excess acid and
augments calcium at the same time. The problem is that it is not very
soluble so adding it to tap water (especially at higher pH) results in
very little dissolving. Thus you wind up adding it to the mash as a
solid anyway so you might as well forget about trying to get it to
dissolve in the mash water (which you can do by sparging with CO2 in
imitation of the way nature gets it to dissolve but that's a PITA) and
just put it in the mash. It still isn't very soluble (it must react with
the mash acids as they are evolved) and because of this it can take a
long time for you to observe its effect, the danger being that you will
be tempted to keep adding more and more only to find that you eventually
overshoot.
You might want to try "pickling lime" which is just calcium hydroxide as
sold to cooks (look in the canning section of the super market) for the
purpose of neutralizing some of the acidity in pickles. It is about 100
times as soluble in water as chalk (1.8 grams per liter cold water as
opposed to .015 grams per liter for chalk). If you make up a slurry, let
it settle a bit (you don't have to wait until it's clear) and decant the
liquid you'll have a solution with some alkaline authority in it. This
you can add to the mash and you should see faster response to your
additions. You could add it to the mash water as well. This would be the
preferred way once you figure out how much is needed but it is the mash
tun you tune for. If you have a reasonably accurate balance you can do
test mashes in which you take a pound of the grist and add to it a quart
and a half (or whatever ratio you like) of water at strike temp to which
you have added x mg of Ca(OH)2/gal and check the pH. If still too low,
try again with water at 2x mg/gal and so on until you get the desired
strike pH or close to it. Then scale up for the entire recipe and treat
the entire volume of water. Note that the pH of water treated with
Ca(OH)2 is definitely going to be high but again it's not the pH of the
water, it's the pH it creates in the mash tun. As a final comment
Ca(OH)2 also contains beneficial calcium.
A.J.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:02:57 -0600
From: "Jeff Stith" <jstith@kc.rr.com>
Subject: Head Retention
Hi All,
I'm on only my third batch ever. It's a honey wheat which, as good as it
tastes, it doesn't seem to want to hold much of a head! From the beginning,
I'm getting about 1/2 inch which quickly settles down to nothing within a
minute. Carbonation is good though.
I fermented it 6 days in a primary fermentor and 9 days in a secondary. I
did the 5 oz. corn sugar boiled in two cups water mixed in before bottling.
I usually drink the beer chilled to around 50 degrees F then poured into a
chilled or frozen glass.
Thing is, this has been the same on my two previous brews: an Irish Red Ale
and Winterfest. As a newbie, what can I do to improve head retention and
increase that creamy foam head from the bottle to the glass?
Thanks!
Jeff S.
Lee's Summit, Missouri
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."
-Edmund Burke
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 18:23:45 -0500
From: Jennifer/Nathan Hall <hallzoo@comcast.net>
Subject: Cylindroconical Fermenter
Just racked my first-time-ever-in-the-cyclindroconical to a keg and let me be
the first to say it's a hell of alot easier than siphoning! I built this
fermenter from Toledo Metal Spinning's 12.2 gal hopper and the Zymico
conversion parts. 10 minutes to sanitize the keg and that's all it took. No
messing with racking canes and spewing sanitizer all over the kitchen walls
trying to wrestle a 6 foot long piece of tubing into submission! The beer was
also much clearer after two weeks than I've ever seen in a carboy - dumping
the trub and yeast once per day starting at about day 7 of fermentation
definitely seems to have worked. Flavor is excellent, although I would
attribute this to sound brewing practice rather than to fermenting in
stainless. For those of you thinking about this setup, I would recommend it.
One more thing - I'm using the hopper lid that TMS has designed for this
particular hopper (14 ga. SS) without any type of pressure seal. Maybe I got
lucky on this first batch, but there appears to be no increased airborne
contamination risk. Lagering may be a different story.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #4119, 12/14/02
*************************************
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