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HOMEBREW Digest #3980
HOMEBREW Digest #3980 Thu 04 July 2002
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Lallemand Scholarship Winner-2002 ("Rob Moline")
RE: Wiring help ("Parker Dutro")
Re: new guy wants to keg (Marc Tiar)
RE: new guy wants to keg (Kent Fletcher)
Re: "Boycott the AHA" -- Five years later (Mike Uchima)
puffed and rolled ("Thomas D. Hamann")
Clean Up ("Jason A Koehler")
Re Dave Miller's Books ("Doug Hurst")
240vac brewery circuit (Calvin Perilloux)
Miller's books (LJ Vitt)
Re: Water Softeners ("Larry Bristol")
Efficiency (Kevin Crouch)
PVC Pipe as Pressure Vessel? (mohrstrom)
Re: new guy wants to keg ("Dave and Joan King")
Dry Hopping a Pilsner ("Menzl's")
The simple truth ("Dave and Joan King")
Wheat beer tests (Rudi Wehmschulte)
Re: 220 volt (David Towson)
Chemical cleaners (David Towson)
Cardamom and skunking ("Doug Moyer")
how long will bottles stay sanitized? (Alan McKay)
Dave Miller's Books (Andrew Calder)
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 23:49:03 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump@mchsi.com>
Subject: Lallemand Scholarship Winner-2002
Lallemand Scholarship Winner-2002
Lallemand is pleased to announce that Jeremy Lenzendorf of West Bend,
WI. is the winner of the 3rd Annual Lallemand Scholarship, drawn at random
by Keith Lemcke of the Siebel Institute and World Brewing Academy, at the
American Homebrewers Association National Homebrew Conference in Dallas,
Texas, on June 22nd, 2002.
Jeremy is a graduate of the University of Wisconsin-Platteville with a
degree in Mechanical Engineering, 1998, and is a Project Engineer for
Progressive Engineering, Inc., an engineering services company in Fond du
Lac, WI. He plans to pursue his Masters through long distance learning this
fall and to be certified as a Professional Engineer in the spring of 2003.
He became interested in brewing about 12 years ago when he helped his
uncle brew up a
batch. In college he dreamed of the day that he could have a brewery in his
own home, and in 1999 he brewed his first batch, a Belgian Wit. Jeremy lives
with his supportive wife, Jennifer, two miniature Dauschunds and three cats.
"It's awesome to have won the scholarship! This is the opportunity of
a lifetime for a small homebrewer like me!" So moved was Jeremy by his
opportunity to attend Siebel, he decided to move his professional
certification exam back by six months in order to attend. Now, that's the
brewing spirit!
The Lallemand Scholarship is awarded to an AHA Member, and offers a two
week Concise Course to the Siebel Institute and World Brewing Academy in
Chicago, Illinois, valued at $2750, and a $1000 stipend to offset travel and
accommodation expenses.
For more information, go to
http://www.beertown.org/AHA/lallemand2.htm
http://www.siebelinstitute.com/
http://www.lallemand.com/Brewing/eng/aboutus.shtm
or contact Rob Moline at
lallemand-yeast@mchsi.com
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:10:48 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128@edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: RE: Wiring help
Aaron,
I just put my SOFC to work for the first time tonight! Seems as
though one jug of ice, with the lid on loosely, will keep the inside of
the chiller at a nice 69 degrees without the fan even running! Of
course, this is in an air conditioned house at an ambient temp of about
72, so it's makes sense. Anyway, here's the skinny: If your fans are
the little three inch kind, make sure they are AC, (you said your
adapter is AC, correct?) If the fans are DC (direct current) then the
adapter will need to be direct current also. In addition, the ampage
needs to be compatible, meaning the adapter can't operate in a range
that will fry your fans. Same with the volts. That's why Ken Schwartz,
the SOFC engineer, recommends the non-digital type thermostat. Because
the cooling system of the chiller acts as a temperature controlled
switch, it's a single unit. The adapter powers the fan, but only when
the thermometer is set at a lower temp. than the air temp, causing the
thermostat tho turn "ON" and complete the electrical connection to the
fan. The DC adapter is ALSO powering the thermostat at all times. A
digital thermostat requires more current to operate, meaning the adapter
will need to supply more electricity, meaning unless there is a
converter in the thermostat, the fan will fail to work or go hay wire.
On top of all this, the DC (direct current) fan and adapter have
polarized wires, so one is negative and the other is positive. They are
like batteries, and will be marked as such. Sometimes all you get as an
indication is some dots or writing on one of the wires. That one is
usually positive. Anyway, make sure you connect the neg. to the neg.,
and the pos. to the pos., otherwise you may burn up your fans.
You can e-mail Ken Schwartz, too, if you need more detail.
Good luck,
Parker Dutro
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 22:17:42 -0700
From: Marc Tiar <marc@tiar.reno.nv.us>
Subject: Re: new guy wants to keg
Dan,
Best one I saw when I first tried kegging was this site:
http://www.bodensatz.com/homebrew/kegging/index.html
-Marc
At 09:47 PM 7/2/02, you wrote:
>Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:06:19 -0400
>From: "dan kehoe" <dan.kehoe@verizon.net>
>Subject: new guy wants to keg
>
>hi all. i am relatively new to the brew world (again) i took a few years off
>after just starting to brew and have nothing but sucess thus far. i
>typically do partial grain batches 5 gallons at a time. my problem is that,
>even brewing a batch every 3 weeks or so, i cant keep the stuff around.
>(hey, i like to drink, what can i say?) so, i would like to make larger
>batches and keg them, so i can keep some brew around. i know NOTHING about
>kegging and would like to find a good resource, like a "kegging for idiots"
>any place you gods can reccomend that i can look online for a start? thanks.
>hoppy brewing, dan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:19:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: new guy wants to keg
In HBD #3979, Dan Kehoe asked about getting into
kegging
"i know NOTHING
about
kegging and would like to find a good resource, like a
"kegging for
idiots"
any place you gods can reccomend that i can look
online for a start?"
Check out:
"sing your Cornelius keg draft system"/ by Pat
Anderson
You MIGHT be able to find it in a good public library.
Kent Fletcher
brewing in So Cal
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 01:32:25 -0500
From: Mike Uchima <uchima@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: "Boycott the AHA" -- Five years later
Thank you Louis, for an excellent progress report on what's been
happening with the AHA. I couldn't agree more. I've been brewing since
1995, but didn't join the AHA until 1999 -- right around the time when
things started to turn around.
I have enjoyed the AHA conferences immensely (I've been to the last 4
now). With Ray at the helm, Zymurgy really seems to have turned a
corner. While Zymurgy doesn't -- and, quite frankly, shouldn't -- fill
the void left by Brewing Techniques' demise, in my opinion it now
strikes a very good balance between beginner and advanced topics, which
is *exactly* what it should be doing. The reconciliation with the BJCP
(as evidenced by the AHA dumping their own style guidelines in favor of
the BJCP guidelines two years ago, and Bill Slack's role at the awards
banquet in Dallas last month) is also a very positive development.
Unity at the national level is a good thing. I hope that the steady
improvements we have been seeing these past few years will continue.
Cheers!
- --
== Mike Uchima == uchima@pobox.com == http://www.pobox.com/~uchima ==
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 18:45:38 +0930
From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann@senet.com.au>
Subject: puffed and rolled
In the Stirling Organic market today (in the soggy Adelaide Hills) I saw
-rolled barley
-rolled oats
-rolled wheat
and
-rolled rye
as well as their puffed versions.
Apart from the puffed variety costing up to 8 times the price what
differences are there in mashing requirements and flavour?
tdh
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:15:42 -0500
From: "Jason A Koehler" <Jason.Koehler@ipaper.com>
Subject: Clean Up
I just wanted to survey the group to see what everyone else is using
for sterilizing and cleaning. I am a clean freak when it comes to my
brew process. I am currently using a powdered cleaner called B-brite.
It is the same as what they use in local bars and restaurants. I use it for
cleaning all objects that touch the brew as well as for sterilizing
bottles and removing labels. It is does a fantastic job and rinses
completely clean leaving no residue but the problem I have is that
it is rather pricey.
So what I need to know is what types of cleaners everyone else is using
or if anyone has a source where I can get a B-brite cleaner at a cheaper
price??
Thanks again!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:55:22 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH@theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re Dave Miller's Books
Michael writes:
>>I'm a big fan of Dave Miller's "The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing."
I noticed that Dave had a new book out called "Dave Miller's
Homebrewing Guide"
...
I'm wondering if this is a different book or an updated version of the
one I have. I hope it is as that is my favorite book.<<
"Homebrewing Guide" is a different, later book which I would highly
recommend. It's been out for at least three years. I learned a few of
the basics of all grain from Papazian but wasn't confident about trying
to brew all grain until after I had read Miller's book. He does an
excellent job of explaining the process in a logical, technical yet easy
to understand manner. Miller's writing is better organized than
Papazian's as well.
coincidentally I pulled this book off the shelf a couple days ago and
found it to still be quite informative. There's information I must have
glossed over previously, which now that I've gained more experience and
knowledge, is very useful.
It's an excellent book for the intermediate and advanced brewer. I
wouldn't recommend it as a beginning brewing text. For the beginner I'd
still recommend Papazian's TNCJOHB (my copy is simply TCJOHB) or
perhaps Miller's "Complete Handbook of Homebrewing".
Hope this helps,
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 07:17:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux@yahoo.com>
Subject: 240vac brewery circuit
Steve Alexander notes that:
>> There is sadly no US standard 240 plug&socket
>> receptical design. There are 3&4 prong connector pairs...
Yes and no. There is not a single standard for all
240v plugs, but there are conventions, and (importantly)
there are different format outlets for different amperage-
rated circuits. For example, a 30 amp rated circuit
breaker uses [I forget which] gauge wire and leads to
one of the 30-amp style outlets. The smaller 20-amp 240v
outlet used for some A/C units is only slightly different
than our usual 120v outlet in that one of the vertical
connectors is horizontal; these are easy to use and not
too obtrusive (but use only for their amp ratings, please!).
If you've got different outlets installed than what
the circuit is designed for, especially if your outlets
indicate more amperage than the circuit can handle,
you'll still be OK if you don't go over the minimum
rating of the "weakest link", but the electrical
inspectors might not be so pleased ith your handiwork.
Some detailed electrical handbooks will show the formats
for the different amp-rating 240v sockets, and it's
recommended to use them. Note that the twist-lock
plug/sockets, by the way, which Steve uses, are
particularly useful for "mobile" applications like
power tools or extension cords, since they should
prevent the plug from being yanked out of the socket
inadvertantly.
Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:11:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4@yahoo.com>
Subject: Miller's books
In HBD#3979, Michael asked about Dave Miller books:
>I'm a big fan of Dave Miller's "The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing."
>I noticed that Dave had a new book out called "Dave Miller's
>Homebrewing Guide"
>I'm wondering if this is a different book or an updated version of the
>one I have. I hope it is as that is my favorite book.
I have both books and I consider the homebrewing guide to be an update
to the complete handbook.
=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 10:11:01 -0500
From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry@DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: Re: Water Softeners
On Tue, 02 Jul 2002 09:04:30 -0400, Jeff Renner
<JeffRenner@comcast.net> wrote:
>...<snip>...
>While it might not have caused a problem, especially in this brew,
>it's not a good idea to brew with softened water. An ion exchange
>softener replaces each calcium and magnesium ion with two sodium ions
>and leave any alkalinity unchanged. so you are removing the desired
>calcium ions and leaving the generally often unwanted (at least for
>pale beers) alkalinity.
Actually, Jeff, that is only partially correct. An ion exchange
softener replaces calcium and magnesium ions with another ion, but that
ion is not necessarily sodium. The outer tank on such softeners is
filled with "salt" tablets. Periodically, the system will use this to
purge the inner tank of the calcium, magnesium, and other ions
collected, and to recharge the catalyst that encourages the ion
exchange to take place.
"Salt" is a generic term (even more generic than "beer"), and does not
necessarily refer to sodium chloride (NaCl) otherwise known as "table
salt". When NaCl is used in the water softener, the calcium and
magnesium ions are replaced with sodium ions, as you said. This, of
course, has some undesirable consequences. Perhaps the most important
of these involves individuals who must restrict their sodium intake for
medical reasons. Water high in sodium is also bad for plants, making
it undesirable for such mundane purposes as watering the lawn.
It is becoming more common to use potassium chloride (KCl) in water
softeners. In this case, the calcium and magnesium ions are replaced
with potassium ions with far fewer negative consequences. Potassium
chloride is often used for medical purposes as a substitute for common
table salt. And plants love potassium! Fertilizers are rated
according to their N-P-K content; this refers to the usable amounts of
nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), and potassium (K) in them.
So, if one has a water softener, they may want to consider switching
from sodium chloride to potassium chloride. Both are widely available
and sold specifically for use in water systems. Potassium chloride is
slightly more expensive than sodium chloride, but may be well worth it
in many cases.
For brewing purposes, I will take some exception to the general
statement that it is "not a good idea to brew with softened water".
Any potable water can be used to make good beer, and artificially
softened water is no exception. Like any water, it will be better at
making some styles than others, and may require "treatment" (perhaps to
reduce alkalinity) before it is "ideal" for any particular style.
Whether it is artificially softened or not, the key is to know what
your water contains, regardless of what those ions might be, and to act
accordingly.
You might have guessed that I have a water softener. When I moved to
the Double Luck, I made sure that my brewing water was not softened. I
decided it would be better to brew with "natural" well water than with
"artificially" softened water. In retrospect, this was a strange
decision since before the move, I had brewed successfully with softened
water for almost 20 years [I suspect it inhibits oxidation]. Frankly,
I am now beginning to regret this decision.
There is nothing wrong with using softened water for brewing. Simply
know what you water contains and if necessary, treat it accordingly.
Larry Bristol
Bellville, TX AR=[1093.6,223.2]
http://www.doubleluck.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Crouch <kcrouching@yahoo.com>
Subject: Efficiency
On June 29th Nathan writes
"In a recent post someone spoke of efficiency. I see
it
mentioned elsewhere regarding brewing with grain and
such, except I
haven't
seen it explained (even in the several home-brew books
I have)."
Nathan, simply put, efficiency is a measurement of
the extract of malt sugars from your grain as a
percentage of the theoretical yield of the grain under
laboratory conditions. You aren't all-grain brewing
yet, which pushes the issue out into the margins of
frivolity and novelty.
For all-grain batches, my humble philosophy is, and
that is all it is, is that the only use for the
concept of efficiency at the homebrewing level is that
you need to be able to formulate recipes that yeild
your target gravity/volume numbers accurately. For
example, I know that I generally get about a 60%
efficiency because I stop runoff a bit early (around
1025) for a variety of reasons. If I formulated
recipes based on a standard 70-75% efficiency
benchmark that many people use, then I would end up
with much less extract, (less beer or lower original
gravity - your choice) than I had anticipated, thus
requiring a band-aid approach in the later stages.
When you get into all grain, brew up a batch of
Anything Goes Amber and then query the digest again to
find out how to calculate your efficiency.
Kevin Crouch
Vancouver, WA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:20:18 -0400
From: mohrstrom@humphrey-products.com
Subject: PVC Pipe as Pressure Vessel?
Does anyone have experience using run of the mill Schedule 40 PVC Pipe
(~4inch dia) as a pressure vessel? I'm having a vision of using it as a
low-pressure (20-40PSI) reservoir of CO2 to dispense (at regulated
pressure) the two cornies in my brand-spankin' new undercounter fridge
(Sanyo 4.9ft^3, thanks for all of the input!) Any caveats - cycle life,
catastrophic failure reports, decreased virility, etc.?
Mark in Kalamazoo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:43:43 -0400
From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3@stny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: new guy wants to keg
Dan,
Your local brew shop should be happy to get your started with kegging. You
need a rebuilt (or new) keg with picnic spout and CO2 hose, CO2 tank (get a
10 lb, they cost the same as 5 lb to refill), a regulator and you're ready
to go (about $120 or so. You'll need the graph of pressure vs. temperature
for "volume's of CO2" dissolved. Your target depends on style, but 2.5
volumes will work to start. After you over-pressurize to get it up to level
(about 3 days at 65F and ~35 psi), you need to stabilize it in the fridge
(about 14 psi once it's at ~35F, assuming about a 7 ft hose). When you
first draft, open the spout full, and if it gushes out, bleed most of the
pressure off, try again, if it comes out real slow and it's flat, jack it up
5 psi or so. You'll develop a feel for it. BTW, in the keg is the time to
dry hop, and put a float in the bag with the hops, not a weight, like you
would in a secondary. Kegging is a good way to learn lots about gas laws
and solubility, sort of a geek thing. :-)
Do a Google search, and you'll probably find lots. If you have specific
questions, let me know.
Dave the Hop Head (BIER)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:50:58 -0400
From: "Menzl's" <menzl@concentric.net>
Subject: Dry Hopping a Pilsner
Hello all. Lurking but gaining in experience from all the daily posts...
I am making a Pilsner Urquell clone and recently racked it to a secondary.
I took it up to 60 deg F for 36 hours for a diacetyl rest and now have
it down to 35 deg F for 7-8 weeks (as per my interpretation from many
sources including John Palmers "How to Brew".) for lagering. The recipe I
am using indicates to dry hop after racking and then bottle when
fermentation is complete. I am a unsure if I should dry hop now or wait
until later in the lagering process. Any suggestions for improvements?
Thanks again for allowing me lurk and learn!
William Menzl
Midland, Michigan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:47:41 -0400
From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3@stny.rr.com>
Subject: The simple truth
Paul,
I fully agree! But please pass on your Imperial Stout recipe. I've been
working on my 85 IBU all grain IPA for years, and it's time to make an
outstanding Imperial Stout, but I need a good starting point.
Thanks Paul,
Dave, the Hop Head (BIER)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:13:40 -0500
From: Rudi Wehmschulte <rjwehmschulte@chemdept.chem.ou.edu>
Subject: Wheat beer tests
Brewers:
I just learned about the results of a taste and quality test of 32
German Wheat beers. It was performed by the German equivalent of
Consumer Report, "Stiftung Warentest" and a summary can be found at
their webpage at http://www.warentest.de/. Klick on "Helles
Hefeweizen". All beers were of good to excellent quality with one
exception: Loebauer Bergquell Lausitzer Hefe-Weizen. This one
contained traces of monochloroacetic acid, a disinfectant.
Rudi
- --
***********************************************
Rudi Wehmschulte, Dr. rer. nat. (405) 325-2388 (office)
Dept. of Chemistry and Biochemistry (405) 325-2827 (lab)
University of Oklahoma (405)-325-6111 (FAX)
620 Parrington Oval, Rm. 208
Norman, OK 73019
e-mail: rjwehmschulte@chemdept.chem.ou.edu
http://cheminfo.chem.ou.edu/faculty/rjw.html
***********************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 18:09:35 -0400
From: David Towson <dtowson@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 220 volt
In HBD #3979, Wayne Aldrich inquired:
"My European appliances are wired for single phase 220 Volts (1) Hot and (1)
common.
How can I connect them to a 3 prong outlet for service in America?"
Common 220/240 volt home appliances in the United States are single phase
devices, and require only two wires for power. The "common", to which you
referred in your post is called the "neutral", and it is not used at all
for a 220/240 appliance unless there is a need to also power a 110/120 volt
device (such as a lamp or clock) in the appliance. The third wire usually
found is a protective ground that grounds the frame/cabinet of the
appliance to prevent the possibility of the frame/cabinet becoming "hot" if
the insulation in the appliance should happen to fail. This is NOT the
same as the "common" to which you referred. It is a separate conductor
used strictly for protective purposes, and it only carries current in the
event of an insulation failure. If your equipment doesn't already have a
three-wire power cord, I suggest you change the cord to allow use of a
three-prong plug so you can have the benefit of the protective ground. I
am assuming here that both wires of your appliance(s) are insulated from
the frame/cabinet. You can easily verify this by testing with an ohmmeter
between each power wire and the frame/cabinet. With the ohmmeter set on
its most sensitive range (R x 10,000 or higher), you should not get a
reading (i.e., open circuit). This is done with the appliance unplugged,
of course. Connecting either power wire to the frame/cabinet is dangerous,
even if one of the wires is supposedly grounded, as mis-wiring of a
receptacle will cause the "hot" wire to be where the grounded wire is expected.
Dave in Bel Air, MD
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 19:36:13 -0400
From: David Towson <dtowson@comcast.net>
Subject: Chemical cleaners
Here's a question for the chemists in the readership. I use two
copper-coil heat exchangers in my brewing rig, one for controlling mash
temperature, and the other for cooling the wort after the boil. Both coils
have wort running through them, and I want to be sure that I get them clean
after use. My preferred method of cleaning is by circulation of a cleaning
solution, and then flushing with potable water.
What can I use as a cleaning solution that (1) works very well to
remove the expected deposits, and (2) is inexpensive? My impression of the
prices of popular compounds such as those in the Five Star Chemicals line
is that they are rather pricey.
Dave in Bel Air, MD
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:12:07 -0400
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy@yahoo.com>
Subject: Cardamom and skunking
I remember (some time back) a discussion of using cardamom to prevent
skunking. I recall that some posters mentioned adding cardamom to every
batch for this reason. Since Spencer's search engine appears to be
unavailable, and I can't get the other search engine to give results worth a
poop, I must ask...
If you regularly add cardamom to your wort as a skunk repellent, how much
and when?
Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Salem, VA
Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity
"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'"
~ Dave Barry
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
~ Galileo Galilei
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:16:10 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay@neap.net>
Subject: how long will bottles stay sanitized?
I'm bottling mead in grolsch bottles. I soak them in
bleach water (gaskets taken off and soaked as well),
rinse well, then give the bottles a sulphite spritz.
I drain the sulphite solution for a second or two then
invert and cap the bottles (leaving a quarter tsp or
so of solution).
I did a bunch about a few days ago and would prefer not to
have to do them again when I bottle my mead later this
week.
cheers,
-Alan
p.s. yeah, I know bleach isn't good for the rubber
gaskets ...
- --
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site (tm)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:41:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Calder <arcalder2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Dave Miller's Books
Howdy Frosty,
You wrote:"...I noticed that Dave had a new book out
called "Dave Miller'sHomebrewing Guide"..."
This is a different book than his "complete guide" and
in my opinion worth owning.
=====
Hope this helps,
Andrew Calder, New Lenox, IL
[218.1,257] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3980, 07/04/02
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