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HOMEBREW Digest #3925
HOMEBREW Digest #3925 Fri 26 April 2002
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Re: HSA Stuff (Steven S)
RE : HSA, O2, Yada, yada ("Steven Parfitt")
PRAIRIE CROSSING, ILLINOIS ("George Krafcisin")
re: The Prison Issue (Paul Kensler)
re: Mango wit (Paul Kensler)
hefeweizen/berliner double mash idea (Richard Seyler)
re: Cleaning taps and lines (Paul Kensler)
re: Diacetyl (Paul Kensler)
Clubs in Manassas, VA (milledon)
Hyde Park beer... (Sonny Baca)
homebrew supplies (dmasking)
Hop Rhizomes in Canada ("Eric Harding")
Cupertino brew pubs (Ed Jones)
Infrared, visible light, and beer ("Val & Scot Oliver")
flaked oats /rye/wheat (Himsbrew)
Regarding a Deficit of HSA Problems. ("Dr. Pivo")
Sam Adams Utopias and Triple.......... ("David Craft")
RE:Mango wit (Michael)
AHA BoA election (Jeff Renner)
Re: Inline Water Heaters (Steven J. Owens) (Kent Fletcher)
*
* 10th annual Spirit of Free Beer entry deadline is 5/11/02
* Details at http://www.burp.org/events/sofb/2002/
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:41:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven S <steven@403forbidden.net>
Subject: Re: HSA Stuff
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After a thread here a few weeks/months back on foam/hot break I started
skimming the foam off the top of my boil. After 3 batches I feel confident
in stating I do not know if it makes a flavor difference but it seems to
make my finished product clearer. In my last batch, a Hefe, i used no
whirlfloc like i usually do and the beer was remarkably clear going into
the carboy. I will say there is a noticable "rank" coming from that foam.
I smelled my brew and the cup holding the foam and the foam doesnt smell
that great compared to the wort. I would guess it contains a lot of
byproducts that we just dont want. Anyone have any other thoughts?
Oh yeah, I've noticed that the hot break/foam tends to attact a good deal
of hop oils at first, but after a few minutes (5-10) the hop oils and bits
either boil off or drop out. I wait till after this point to skim after a
hop addition. After transfer to my fermentor there is hardly any hotbreak
left at the bottom, mostly just the hops hanging out on the bottom.
> WHOA! Hot break removal --- now THERE is something I can get my hands
> around! I conclude that the greater danger to the homebrewer is not
> from HSA, but from a lack of adequate hot break removal (except, of
> course, for those of you who happen to age your homebrew at 40C). From
> now on, I am going to be a lot more diligent in regard to hot break
> removal. The article contains very useful information, indeed!
Steven St.Laurent 403forbidden.net [580.2,181.4] Rennerian
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:33:35 -0400
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE : HSA, O2, Yada, yada
>From the recent postings, it would seem that boiling ones strike water and
letting it cool to pitch temp would be a way to drive off exess O2 in the
water if one were inclined to minimize it's pontential impact on HSA.
The same goes for Sparge water. Keep the container closed and formation of
the evolving H2O vapour would tend to form a blanket which would slow
gassious ingression via difussion.
In other words, boil your water before using it, and keep a lid on it!
duckin n runnin....
I'm moving, I'm Moving, And I get a 17' X 15' garage just for brewing! Well,
and the Motorcylce. All I have to do is let her run the house....
Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian
"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von
Bismarck
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:50:36 -0500
From: "George Krafcisin" <gkrafcisin@mindspring.com>
Subject: PRAIRIE CROSSING, ILLINOIS
Wife and I have been looking for a house in the Prairie Crossing
eco-development near Grayslake, Illinois. The place is designed with
return-to-nature and conservation in mind. My instinct says that there
should be some homebrewers in that community, and my real estate agent says
she hears there's a regular HB club there.
Are any of you homebrewers residents of Prairie Crossing, or know of someone
there that can tell me about the place?
George Krafcisin
Glencoe, IL
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:15:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: The Prison Issue
Ray Daniels said: "Seems like there was a thread on
prison beers not long ago... <snip> For that matter,
would anyone like to write a story about this?"
Uh Oh, I can see it coming now - the soon-to-be
infamous "Prison Issue". Topics might include:
"Why We Brew (In Prison)"
"Prison Bottle Openers"
"Historical and Indigenous Prison Beers"
"Sneaking Bottles (Into Prison)
"The Laundry Room - Everything You Need for an
All-Grain Brewery"
"Evaluating Beer in Prison - or, How Many Cigarettes
is my Beer Worth?"
And of course an article - might I suggest the title
"The Great Escape" - by Phil Wilcox, warden of the
world-famous Prison City Brewers.
Cheers,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD
p.s. - I hope it doesn't need to be pointed out, but
this was written with tongue firmly in cheek and I
hope its read in the same manner! I'm a big fan of
Ray and Zymurgy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:25:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Mango wit
Doug,
I've experimented with fruit (not mango... yet...
although if SWMBO hears about this I'm sure it will be
my next batch) and I would definitely recommend
cutting the fruit into fairly rough slices and
freezing it in ziplock bags to break the cell walls.
This has worked for me much better than pureeing,
which left a gallon or two of sludge at the bottom,
required several rackings and didn't really seem to
increase the fruit flavor or aroma. Cutting the fruit
roughly leaves it solid enough to rack the beer off
of, but the flavor is still extracted (try a slice of
mango after its sat in the beer for a week or two -
bleck, it will probably taste like fiber and yeast).
I'm thinking cut the bulk of the mango lengthwise into
strips, and shave the rest of the meat off the pit -
that should be enough.
I'd say leave the beer in a bucket secondary on the
fruit for 10-14 days. You'll need to rack it into a
tertiary fermenter because I'm sure you'll still need
to let the beer settle after you transfer it off the
fruit (you'll have small bits of fruit floaties).
Leave plenty of headspace in the bucket - the sugars
in the fruit might kick off a minor fermentation and
the fruit pulp will form a nice yeasty mat on top.
I've used peaches several times, and I needed 7-10# /
5 gallons to get a noticeable peach flavor - I'd
guesstimate that mango would require a similar
proportion.
Please post back to the HBD when its all said and done
with the methods and the results!
Hope this helps,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:26:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Richard Seyler <seyler@arches.uga.edu>
Subject: hefeweizen/berliner double mash idea
I have this idea for brewing this weekend for which I would like to hear
the collective's comments. My original idea was to brew a hefe; pretty
classic 70% wheat, about 1.055. Then I thought I wanted to a Berliner;
50% wheat, about 1.035. Finally I thought, "hey, why not brew both with a
big mash, using the first runnings for the hefe, and the last of it for
the berliner?" Anybody do this before? Here's my approximate plan:
20# wheat malt
10# pilsner malt (maybe Am. 2-row, if that's all I have)
mash in to around 135F
single decoction to 155F
mix in a few # of rice hulls before sparging.
Take first ~8 gal, add water (~3 gal?) to adjust gravity to 1.06. Boil
with Hallertau hop additions (~14 ibu) to SG=1.055 and pitch with Wyeast
3068.
Take last ~5 gal of sparge, targeting an after-boil gravity to about
1.035. Pitch on yeast cake of last batch (Pacman yeast; not ideal but its
what I have). After fermentation, spike with lactic to pH=3.5. Carbonate
the bejeusus out of it.
I plan to ferment both batches around 59-62F.
Long brewday, but any caveats?
Thanks,
- --Tad
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:45:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Cleaning taps and lines
Hi Stefan,
I've got a four-tap chest freezer with a wood collar
in my basement. I clean all the lines and taps once
every month or two, plus the line and tap when a
particular keg runs out. I keep an eye on the lines
and clean them sooner if they look like they need it,
or I'll put it off to the two-month mark if they look
OK.
I bought wing-nuts for the beer line where it attaches
to the shank, making it much easier to take the beer
lines on and off. I disconnect all the beer lines
from the kegs and shanks, disconnect the faucets from
the shanks, and leave the shanks attached to the wood
collar. I take everything apart (I have the kind of
QDs that are threaded not barbed, so I take them off
and take them apart too) and soak it all in hot PBW or
TSP (whatever detergent I have on hand) for a while.
I can't let the brass parts sit in the detergent too
long, but the stainless and plastic sit in the
detergent until I'm done with everything else.
I clean the insides of the shanks with detergent using
a sponge and a pipe-cleaner. I rinse them out with a
spray-bottle of Star San I keep around.
The faucets are taken apart, and I scrub out the
insides with a sponge and a faucet brush. The beer
lines are flushed with hot water, and I shove a pipe
cleaner into each line (I use 3/16" line) and force it
through the beer line using tap water pressure (this
really helps clean out settled yeast, beerstone,
etc.).
Lastly, I take some leftover detergent water and pour
it into my drip tray to soak off all the dried beer
puddles. I have a ball valve on the bottom of my drip
tray, so I can leave the detergent there as long as it
takes and then drain it out when I'm ready.
Everything is rinsed really well with hot water. I'll
hook up the faucets and lines again, and flush them
through with just enough beer to rinse out any water
and fill the lines with beer, ready for the next pour!
If any taps will be sitting empty (I don't have a keg
for that tap) I'll let all the parts and lines air-dry
before reassembling.
Every once in a while I might take a sponge and the
spray bottle of Star San, maybe even the faucet brush,
to the faucets if they start to get some dried beer
built up. Rinsing them out with a spritz of Star San
every now and then seems to help them stay clean
longer.
All of this sounds like a lot, but its kind of fun and
I'm always happy and proud when I have spotless
squeaky clean beer lines. It really doesn't seem to
take that much time.
Hope this helps,
Paul Kensler
(seeming to be hard at work typing in) Gaithersburg,
MD
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:01:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Diacetyl
Floyd,
Yeast Culture Kit Co. (Dan McConnell, Ann Arbor MI)
sells a yeast slant of the yeast that Samuel Smiths
uses - its a fruity little ale yeast and the couple
times I used it, it threw a lot of diacetyl.
Apparently it will throw even more if you "drop" it
during fermentation but I never tried that. Also,
perhaps a good Bohemian lager strain might give you
some diacetyl - others might be able to recommend a
better strain than I. Again, dropping it during
fermentation might help.
Finally, I suppose you could use a lager yeast,
ferment it cold, drop it after a couple days and
crash-cool it near the end of fermentation while there
is still some diacetyl in the beer - but this would
require frequent tasting, good timing, and might also
leave you with some other off-flavors (worty and
acetaldehyde from possibly incomplete fermentation,
oxidation from the dropping) so I'm not sure its worth
it. Again, some of the more experienced lager brewers
might be able to comment here (I'm an ale guy myself).
Good luck, hope this helps -
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:42:33 +0000
From: milledon@attbi.com
Subject: Clubs in Manassas, VA
I will be moving this summer from the western suburbs of
Chicago to Manassas, VA. I am looking for clubs in the
area. My standards are high as I am leaving one of the
best clubs in the US, the Urban Knaves of Grain. For
anyone moving to Chicago, I highly recommend UKG. UKG
was a co-winner of the 1999 American Homebrewers
Association Homebrew Club of the Year award. They are a
fantastic bunch of folks.
Don Miller
milledon@attbi.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:23:54 -0600
From: Sonny Baca <baca2000@zianet.com>
Subject: Hyde Park beer...
I recently came across an old wooden beer crate. It has: Hyde Park Lager
Beer on the side. Also: Seldom Equalled-Never Excelled, Hyde Park
Breweries Association, Inc. St. Louis, Missouri. Does anyone have any
information on this beer, or where to look? In searching the net I've
only been able to come up with a Hyde Park microbrewery in NY. Thanks...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:12:13 +0000
From: dmasking@attbi.com
Subject: homebrew supplies
Is there a place in the Indianapolis or Chicago area to
purchase homebrew supplies?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 01:56:40 +0800
From: "Eric Harding" <ercanrua@iname.com>
Subject: Hop Rhizomes in Canada
Hi, all. I'm finally starting to work on putting in a few gardening
spots on our ten acre property on Keats Island, near Vancouver, BC,
and, no surprise, would like to start off with some hops. Thought
I'd at least like to try some Goldings, as BC Goldings used to be fairly
prominent at one time around here.
Does anyone know of a source for hop rhizomes in Canada? Preferably
with some kind of selection? I'd like to avoid the US$15 charge I've
seen on US websites for phytocertification if at all possible.
Thanks in advance.
Eric Harding
Nectar of the dogGs Brewery
Keats Island, BC
- --
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:52:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ed Jones <ejones@ironacres.com>
Subject: Cupertino brew pubs
I'll be travelling to Cupertino (Silicon Valley) CA in a couple of weeks
and would really appreciate some suggestions on brew pubs to check out. I
already know about Stoddards in Sunnyvale. ANy other suggestions? Thanks!
- --
Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian
"When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment,
I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am
confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery."
- written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:16:38 -0700
From: "Val & Scot Oliver" <snvoliver@earthlink.net>
Subject: Infrared, visible light, and beer
I have a chest freezer that I'm using as a fermentation box. Using a
temperature controller I can heat or cool it as needed. The problem is the
heat source. I'm currently using a 25 watt red light bulb, which seems to
work well, but is the visible light going to affect the beer? I shielded the
carboy with a blanket and a board, but it is awkward. I am looking for other
solutions. I have been looking into ceramic heaters used for reptiles,
birds, etc. as mentioned on Dan Schultz's web site
(www.users.qwest.net/~d2schultz/). Most of the popular brands, (Pearlco, Zoo
Med) are infrared emitters, so they aren't designed to heat the air, but the
item(s) the emitted rays hit. How does this affect the beer and the sides of
the freezer, etc.?
Any insight from someone with experience with these devices or technical
knowledge would be great. Or if there are other devices that someone knows
will work, I'm willing to give it a try.
Val Oliver
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:13:18 -0400
From: Himsbrew@aol.com
Subject: flaked oats /rye/wheat
what is the proper way to use these?
I am a extract/partial mash brewer,can I
just add them with the other grains, or do
I need to do some sort of cereal boil mash
procedures?
thanks to the great brain of the collective!
jim cuny
green bay wi
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:40:36 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp@pivo.w.se>
Subject: Regarding a Deficit of HSA Problems.
Alastair writes:
> I've had to come to the conclusion that the 'oxygen' in my basement must
> be somehow different from the typical brewing environment. I always
> considered HSA as the brewing equivalent of an urban legend and paid it
> little attention. However, increasingly there seems to be a movement
> afoot that strongly suggests we should worry about this 'apparent'
> problem.
>
That movement has been giving us the foot as long as I've peaked at this
forum. Try searching the archives using "Pivo AND HSA" as a search
parameter ..... around 1997 would be a good start, or jump right to no.
2711.
Larry Bristol comments regarding the response to Alastair's posting:
> I am somewhat surprised and disappointed in the hostile attitude I
> sense in your posting.
>
Also not new. Look at the surrounds to no. 2803 when I tried a
spurment, thinking perhaps to other's enjoyment that they didn't have to
do it themselves, or hide from ghosts.
You feel sort of like you suddenly woke up in a Taliban encampment....
went out to take a bog.... and mistakenly used the Koran to wipe
yourself with.
Not a generally pleasant reaction from the surroundings.
(I did , however get a lot of nice personal email from folks that
basically said :"That's what I've thought for a long time, and even the
commercials down play it now..... but who wants to argue with
"THEM".'... and for that, thanks.)
Actually, not a bad analogy ..... as the true zealots of "Holy
Scienterrific Ascertations" seem to have given this subject an almost
religious faith.
Warning! Infidels will be punished!
Look out your window, Alastair! There may be a Boeing heading for your
brew house at this very moment!
On the cheerier side, I really enjoyed your "HSA salute".
When I used to wander around old Czechoslovakia, trying to figure out
how they made such wonderful stuff, I saw a few "salutes" myself.
In some old decocters, after they had boiled the portion, it was pumped
back in OVER the mash to go: "SLOP-SLOP-SLOPPING" 2 or 3 meters below to
the awaiting goods.
One of the few places that made beer that I enjoyed better than my own.
On the other hand, you can't see those anymore. Good old "market
economy" has made the Czech brewing business "modernise and expand", or
"get out of the game".
Today, the breweries look pretty much like they do everywhere.....
.... and the beer taste pretty much like it does everywhere else.
I guess you can draw your own conclusions about how pertinent : "In
Reaching the 18 Month Shelf Life" is to your own brewing, or perhaps in
making good beer at all....
.... but it sounds as though you already have.
Dr. Pivo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:13:59 -0400
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Sam Adams Utopias and Triple..........
Greetings,
I am wondering how Sam Adams MMII Utopias tastes. The Triple Bock is
rather harsh in my opinion, is Utopias any different?
We cannot buy it here in North Carolina and I see it on Ebay for $200 plus
per bottle, rather steep.
But then again I saw a bottle of the 94 edition of Triple go for $60. The
95 edition goes for about $15 per bottle on Ebay. I have several of the 95
edition if anyone is interested in a trade of some sort. Barleywine or
Mead for Triple Bock...........
Regards,
David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:02:41 -0400
From: Michael <misaacs@snet.net>
Subject: RE:Mango wit
I brew a Mango Wheat annually. I add 7 pounds of flash-frozen mango to 5
gallons of wheat in a 6.5 gallon carboy after primary fermentation. That
sits for about 2-3 weeks before racking again. Most mangos are very
fibrous and the beer would benefit from additional settling time. This
gives me great mango aroma and flavor. I hope that helps.
- --
misaacs@bigfoot.com
Warning: Life may cause injury or death. Please dress accordingly.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:42:38 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner@comcast.net>
Subject: AHA BoA election
Brewers
The annual AHA Board of Advisors election is now until May 15. I am
a candidate, and ask you for your vote. I think I can represent you
well.
My candidate statement is below. You can see all of the candidate
statements at http://www.beertown.org/AHA/ballot.htm. You can also
vote online at that URL. You must know your membership number. If
you do not know it, email info@aob.org or phone 888-822-6273. You
may also vote by mail with the ballot on page 23 of the May/June 2002
Zymurgy.
There are nine candidates, including three incumbents, for the five
positions. Please vote early and often. Well, early anyway. Do it
now! Ve haff vays of finding who hass not voted!!
Jeff
<><><><><><><><><><>
I am honored to be nominated for the AHA Board of Advisors and to be
encouraged by people whose opinions and advice I respect.
As an avid homebrewer for nearly 30 years and an active participant
in HomeBrew Digest, I am in touch with homebrewers and their
interests and can represent them well on the BoA. I want to continue
the board's efforts to make the AHA more relevant to homebrewers so
that all homebrewers will want to join for its benefits. This will
strengthen both the hobby of homebrewing and the AHA as well. My
background also makes me well suited to be an ambassador for
homebrewing to the community at large.
Brewing C. V.
*Homebrewer since early 1970s, all-grain since late 1970s
*Brewer of many award winning beers, including two Best of Show
*Ceaseless (tiresome?) promoter of Classic American Pilsner (CAP)
*Speaker (Classic American Pilsner), MCAB2 (2000), St. Louis, MO
*Speaker 2000 National Homebrewers Conference, Livonia, MI
*Speaker 2001 GCHC, Canadian Amateur Brewers Association, Toronto, Ontario
*Speaker and "Homebrew Hero," 2001 Sunshine Challenge, Orlando, FL
*Member of AHA since 1980
*Charter member of Ann Arbor Brewers Guild since 1986
*BJCP Judge since 1991 (I think I must be at National by now)
Active participant of online groups:
*HomeBrew Digest (HBD) (thousands of posts since 1994)
*JudgeNet Digest
*Oz Craftbrewing
*UK Homebrewing
*Historic-Brewing
*Distilled Beverage Digest (list owner)
Author of several Brewing Techniques and Zymurgy articles:
*"Reviving the Classic American Pilsner - A Shamefully Neglected
Style," Brewing Techniques, September/October 1995
*"Bread for Brewers," Zymurgy, Spring, 1997
*"The Revival of the Classic American Pilsner," Zymurgy,
September/October 2000
*"Solera Ale," Zymurgy, January/February 2002
- --
***Please note my new address***
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:58:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Inline Water Heaters (Steven J. Owens)
Steven,
A couple of issues here. It can't be set up for both
fuels, the pressure regulator and burner jets have to
be changed to convert from one to the other. And
you're right, $750 is a little steep for this purpose.
There are camping shower units on the market that use
your vehicle's engine heat. These units have a heat
exchanger (which works the same way a couter-flow
chiller does) to heat potable water, I believe they
cost about half as much as the Paloma. As to it's use
for RIMS, this could get very exciting, and very
dangerous. The Paloma info page states emphatically
that it CANNOT bu used in ANY recirculating system.
Imagine, you hook it up as a RIMS. The first pass
through, the delta t is 50 deg F at 2.85 gallons per
minute. So even with a healthy mash for a 10 gallon
batch, after about three minutes you've raised the
liquid from a protein rest at 125 to an amylase
destroying 175, and now the 175 degree liquid is
reentering the heat exchanger where it will flash to
steam, until a few errant husks clump together, and
BLAM, you make the eleven o'clock news. There is no
such thing as a small steam explosion. I've got one
word (acronym, really) for ya: HERMS.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3925, 04/26/02
*************************************
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