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HOMEBREW Digest #3871
HOMEBREW Digest #3871 Thu 21 February 2002
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Clap Trap (craftbrewer)
Prickly Pear Beer ("Braam Greyling")
Drunk Monk Challenge, March 23 -- call for judges and entries (Steve McKenna)
Weizen yeasts (Randy Ricchi)
P.S. (Randy Ricchi)
Ginger in Beer (Nathan Kanous)
RE: yet another pid answer ("Steven Parfitt")
Clarification: Chemical "Grades" ("Hall, Kevin")
Cleaning kegs ... and other stuff ("Steve Alexander")
BCJP guidlines database (carlos benitez)
Re: Siphoning (Kelly Grigg)
RE: Siphoning (Andrew Nix)
re: Siphoning ("Mike")
Bicarb/Campden tablets (AJ)
siphons, language ("Schrempp, Michael")
Beer TV Special ("Hedglin, Nils A")
Weissbier Yeasts (stihlerunits)
*
* Drunk Monk Challenge Entry Deadline is 3/16/02!
* http://www.sgu.net/ukg/dmc/ for more information
*
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:48:24 +1100
From: craftbrewer@telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: Clap Trap
G'day All
/
Well I wait here with baited breath, no answer yet to my thought
provoking question. I would have asked the sooooo called
centre of Australian brewing, but it seems their idea of natural
O2 diffusion is to blow on the top of the wort. "yep it wont go in
unless in push it in, thats why I blow on it." Newcastle wasn't
much better with a typical answer "no you dont blow on it,
that causes infection. You have to push it down your hands
really fast".
/
We in the rest of Australia of course know better. Never have
I had to say >>>>Oh well, if it turns out to be undrinkable<<<<<<.
It seems this is a common problem down in both Burradoo and
Newcastle. So when you here comments like this
>>>>>>> there is something else that I can agree with Phil on.
The Oz Brewing Centre is definately in Bowral
(a close suburb of Barradoo)<<<<< It reminds me of a bunch
of old fishermen, always hanging arround together, reconing
they are the best arround. Yet the world goes by, leaving
these poor sods behind. So it is with brewing in Aus. Wes has
his work cut out getting it right. Seems he picked Bowral,
not for its brewing excellence, but the fact the brewers are
sooo bad he could not go wrong improving their skills.
Wes had a captive audience, and their money as well.
/
But back to my quiz. If its too hard to work out an average
figure when a unoxygenated wort would naturally diffuse to be
adequately oxegenated, I can do the maths. I just need to
know what are the formulas I need to work with to work it out.
So its an either/ or here. I'll take an average figure, or the
formulas.
/
Shout
Graham Sanders
/
Oh, Dave wrote
from what I hear about the tropical Queensland weather lately,
the GoldFish's environment is just about as humid!<<<<<<<<
/
No wrong their mate. When the wet breaks in the topics it breaks.
Hows 8 inches a night the last 5 nights. All you can do is drink
a Tropical Flower Wit and watch the rain come down.
Local river has the volume of Sydney Harbour flowing down it
every half hour.
/
Oh yeh, seems another sod has been taken by a saltie, and he
was from "the so called centre of Aus brewing". Good to see, for,
they never learn.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:00:08 +0200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling@azoteq.com>
Subject: Prickly Pear Beer
Hi all,
Just to let you know we also do some interesting stuff here in
South Africa....
Visit the following (it might take a while to load)
http://www.worthogbrewers.co.za/pics_02-feb-2002/index.html
We have an annual Prickly Pear Festival in Pretoria and an
excellent Micro Brewer named Draymanns Brewery , brews a
Prickly Pear Fruit beer every year.
Anyway, no affiliation blah blah blah
Regards
Braam Greyling
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:45:11 -0600
From: Steve McKenna <mckennst@earthlink.net>
Subject: Drunk Monk Challenge, March 23 -- call for judges and entries
THE DRUNK MONK CHALLENGE
March 23, 2002
Sponsored by the Urban Knaves of Grain
The Urban Knaves of Grain will host our 4th annual Drunk Monk Challenge
homebrew competition on Saturday, March 23 at Two Brothers Brewing Company
in Warrenville, IL. Entries are due by March 16.
The competition is AHA sanctioned and is a qualifying event for both MCAB
and the Midwest Homebrewer of the Year Award. In addition to the BJCP
categories of beer, mead, and cider, we'll once again feature our own
special category, the Menace of the Monastery, for beer styles with roots
in the monastic brewing traditions of Belgium and Germany: Belgian dubbel,
tripel, pale, strong pale, and strong dark ales, plus German
doppelbock. This year, the winners of Best of Show and the Menace will
brew their beers at Glen Ellyn Brewing Co. and Govnor's Pub.
Last year's Drunk Monk Challenge attracted a record-breaking 504 entries,
and it took a huge turnout of dedicated judges and stewards to pull it
off. We'll need lots of help to do it again. We offer a volunteers'
Gumbofest party on Friday, a complimentary tasting glass, potluck dinner on
Saturday, a raffle, shuttle to nearby train stations, and Beds for Brewers
for those staying overnight. Judges and stewards, please help!
Competition info and online registration: http://www.sgu.net/ukg/dmc
Judges and stewards: contact Steve McKenna, mckennst@earthlink.net, (630)
305-0554
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:26:57 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi@ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Weizen yeasts
Rick,
The weizen is one of my favorite styles and I have brewed many of them
over the last 9 or 10 years. I've tried many different yeasts, including
the Brewtek 920 you've been using, and on my latest batch the new Wyeast
3638.
Almost every weizen yeast will attenuate like crazy. The only exception
I've found was Wyeast 3068, which is still attenuative, but not like the
others. Another aspect of the 3068 is it has a milder flavor than the
others (a minus for me)and it ferments more slowly than most. On the
plus side, beers made with the 3068 yeast seem to have good flavor
stability over time. A lot of weizen yeasts continue to change (usually
for the worse) the flavor of the beer over the course of a few months.
As a result, I quit making double batches of weizen, choosing to make
only 6 gallons or so at a time and drinking them up rather than hoarding
them. I have found that keeping them in the fridge helps with flavor
stability.
The Brewtek 920 was my favorite yeast for a long time, and is still
possibly my favorite, or at least in the top two. The 920 has a very
intense cloviness, so much so that I found if I pitch and ferment this
one warmer than the others (70F or so, as opposed to the low 60's) I get
more banana to help balance the clove. The result is a wonderfully
complex brew. The downside with this yeast is the flavor will start
going downhill within two months unless you store them cold. It is a
very vigorous and attenuative yeast.
The new Wyeast 3638 now has my interest. I have only brewed one batch
with this so far, and at first I wasn't sure if I liked it. There was a
very nice clove character, and a nice banana character, both quite
intense, but there was also some other kind of phenolic that detracted a
little bit from the beer. What I found over time was, the clove
diminished somewhat, the other phenolic disappeared, and the fruitiness
changed from banana to a different fruit-blend character that is very
nice and still very weizen-like. I have been storing this beer cold as
well, so I can't comment on how it would age if stored warmer.
I will be brewing with this yeast again within the next few weeks.
Usually when I brew ales I don't worry about removing cold break before
pitching the yeast, but I am going to do so on my next batch to see if
maybe I can avoid that phenolic I didn't like. I say this yeast is worth
giving a try.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:29:32 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi@ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: P.S.
I forgot to mention, don't worry about the low final gravities. That's
part of a weizen. I used to worry about it because I THOUGHT it should
be higher. Than I realized it doesn't affect the flavor or the
mouthfeel, so who cares?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:30:41 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous@pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Ginger in Beer
Morning,
This is kind of directed to the Center of the Brewing Universe but I
thought it could be useful for the collective.
I'm going to be making a witbier for summer quaffing. I like the bitter
orange and the coriander. I also like ginger. However, I've noticed that
different types of ginger used different ways can have different results.
I've noticed that some uses of ginger can leave an almost sour flavor and
aroma in beers. I've also noticed that Jeff Renner indicates that using
ginger to replace bitter orange in his wit provides some background
bitterness. I've also noted that some uses of ginger can be very floral
(esp in cooking).
I'm interested in getting some of that floral character in a wit beer. What
suggestions might those of you that have used lots of ginger in various
ways have for me? TIA.
nathan in madison, wi
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:00:15 -0500
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: yet another pid answer
Robert Humphrey posted:
>If your controller can only handle 1 Amp, the simplest solution is to >use
>a small mechanical contact relay, sometimes called an ice cube >relay.
These might be a good Idea, provided that the relay contacts are rated high
enough.
>There are several advantages to using one: they normally have 2 sets >of
>contact which can be used in parallel to split the load, ( 10 amps >per set
>+ 20 amps),
Sorry, I design with relays and none of the vendors I deal with (Omron,
Tyco, Scharck, ...) recommend paralling contacts to increase rating. Only
for redundanacy. The contact that opens last will have to extinguish the
arch for the total current.
>also, they plug into a base, so when the time comes to replace it you
>just plug in another one, no rewiring
Good idea.
>(All relays eventually go bad, >even ssr's)
This is a tad misleading. Everything eventually fails. The sun will
eventually run out of energy, ...
Properly rated, an SSR has a MTBF in the 100,000hrs range and failure rates
in the low ppm range. You should never see one fail unless it is abused.
....Snip...
>You may have to check your breaker box in your house to see if you >have an
>outlet that will handle 20 amps.
Good point. Always check your breaker rating before adding such devices. I
know what mine are because I converted from fuses (mostly 15A) to Ckt
Breakers a couple of years ago, and and replaced a lot of wiring when I
converted to all 20A and 30A Breakers. Some of the wiring in my house was
substandard. I have also run several high amperage lines specifically to the
garage for Machinery like Lathe, Mill, etc. So I have dedicated lines I can
use. Most houses are not wired for the kind of loads we use. If you are
really serious about doing this, you might want to check into having a box
added just for your brewery.
Steven
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:00:22 -0500
From: "Hall, Kevin" <Kevin_Hall@bausch.com>
Subject: Clarification: Chemical "Grades"
I'd like to note that my previous post indicated, wrongly, that FCC
indicates 'Food and Confections Compendium'; it is correctly referred to as
'Food Chemicals Codex.'
My profuse apologies.
I shall flog myself at great length. Then drink homebrew to assuage my
pains.
Cheers,
Kevin
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:11:29 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Cleaning kegs ... and other stuff
I moved to my new place this winter and am only now looking at fixing up a
'brewery' in my basement.
I mostly brew in sankes and my old basement was the best available spot.
I've come to notice that my new place has several deficits I need to work
on. The brewing process at my new site is good enough, but the handling of
cleanup and spills is more difficult.
The old place had an old-style basement laundry with a floor that drained
cleanly (significant grade) into a floor drain. That and a large double
cement sink with attached counter top made this a great location for
handling liquids. Spills could just be hosed off, and the sink was
certainly sturdy, low and big enough to allow washing of a sanke, carboy or
corny with and it was only a little awkward. The counter at the level of
the sink top as a great feature too - you can lay a vessel on its side and
fill/shake/drain without a lot of lifting. The new place has a nearly flat
basement floor. Yes it drains, but not quickly of forcefully. I've needed
to use a mop for cleanup several times. Also the plastic sink 'seems' less
sturdy and it's only a single sink - big mistake. I've washed carboys in
it, but I'm not about to try sankes.
I'm considering installing a modular shower (no shower head - just hose)
just so I have a spot where I can hose off sankes etc and tip them out
without making a mess. Actually a short 4ft or so type 3 sided enclosure
with a base drain would do. That doesn't really address spills and
boilovers. Any thoughts ? Anyone have a good solution for spills and
cleanup when brewing indoors ?
-S
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:35:04 -0800 (PST)
From: carlos benitez <greenmonsterbrewing@yahoo.com>
Subject: BCJP guidlines database
Hello All!
Does anybody out there have the BCJP guidlines in a
database format? I am looking to add it to my palm
pilot and can convert it from excel or import it
directly if it is listed in comma delinieated format.
I'm being lazy and would rather try it this way rather
than typing it all out (I type about 1 word a
minute...) If not, I will make it available to y'all
in a couple of years when I'm done typing...
Thanks in advance...
=====
BIBIDI !
Brew It Bottle It Drink It
Carlos Benitez - Green Monster Brewing
Bainbridge, PA, U.S.A.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:21:58 -0600
From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg@diamonddata.com>
Subject: Re: Siphoning
Yeah, I've seen a friend with one of these...and was pretty kewl. I'm really
a gadget person, but, I tell ya...I don't believe you have to be all THAT
anal about sanitation. I mouth siphon all the time...or fill the hose with
tap water to get it started...fermented or unfermented wort. I've been
brewing extract and now all grain....about 3 years. I've never (knock wood)
had an infection problem. But, I find you don't have to go to some of the
extreme measures many on here emphasize quite often. I keep a bucket of
b-brite near by...and just toss my spoons and tools and hoses...etc. in it.
While I have things boiling or touching something boiling...I don't worry
about that...and when things cool...I just try to at least dunk whatever
I'm going to use with the cooled wort in the b-brite bucket...
I clean my carboys with a hose and brush...and then add a touch of bleach to
them, fill them, and they sit a minute or two...then I rinse them till I don't
smell bleach. Kegs, I just hose out the residue...throw a little idophore
(sp?).. and fill with water. I let it set a couple of mins....then rinse and
siphon beer into them....
So, I mean, I'm reasonably careful....but, I find you don't have to be so
very strict and regimented as I was led to believe when I first learned from
friends...I used to take forever when I started...boiling everything...etc.
Now...I just use common sense...and have fun without worrying about it so
much...
My $0.02,
Kelly
On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 12:15:27AM -0500, after pounding the keys randomly,
Steven S came up with....
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:25:07 -0500 (EST)
> From: Steven S <steven@403forbidden.net>
> Subject: Re: Siphoning
>
>
> Any oral siphon technique can contaminate your brew. The chances are
> slight with fermented wort but unfermented you are pushing it.
>
> FYI: a great source of "wild" yeast is the human mouth not to mention
> bacteria/germs/virii/god-knows-what.
>
> I bought a siphon starter, also called a autosiphon.
>
> pictured here: http://www.stpats.com/images/autosiphon.jpg
>
> Its a racking cane inside a larger plastic tube. A seal at the end of the
> racking cane forms a simple pump and a nice large protective at the cup
> keeps the hops/trub/yeast out of the assembly.
>
> No effort here at all, a quick pump or two and gravity takes over.
>
>
>
> Steven St.Laurent ::: steven@403forbidden.net ::: 403forbidden.net
> [580.2, 181.4] Rennerian
- ------------------
No more Outlook....
Proudly using Mutt on Linux
- ------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:27:16 -0500
From: Andrew Nix <anix@vt.edu>
Subject: RE: Siphoning
In HBD #3870, Eric R. Lande wrote:
First of all, Bob, I think this discussion should be on the Gadgeteers
Digest. Lord knows it could use the activity. Anyway, back to
siphoning. If I'm "challenged" at something I don't do it. I've given
up on siphoning. I got a carboy cap and racking cane and use my CO2
bottle to push the beer to be racked up the racking cane and into the new
carboy or keg. If you start off with the exit carboy above the
recipient, after you start the flow it will act like a siphon in spite of
itself. I do still siphon out of the kettle, but that will change when I
add a drain. Hope that helps.
- ---------------------------------------------------
I know this is just details, but using CO2 to force the flow is still a
siphon provided you stop adding CO2 once the flow is going. If your
lifting the fluid above it's height at any point and the flow continues
after starting, it is a siphon. Of course, draining by gravity isn't a
siphon. Siphons can be started many different ways, by either decreasing
the pressure on the receiving end (sucking on that end, pulling gas out
with a pump or by filling up a tube and starting the flow), or increasing
the pressure on the starting end (forcing with CO2, etc.).
I guess I'm being picky heh? What are we all here for anyway!!
Drewmeister
Andrew Nix
Department of Mechanical Engineering
Virginia Tech
anix@vt.edu
http://www.vt.edu:10021/A/anix
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:17:04 -0800
From: "Mike" <brewski@inet99.net>
Subject: re: Siphoning
Ways to Siphon Homebrew =3D Number of Hombrewers - 1 (This takes into =
account the assumption that two hombrewers are using the same method.)
Which every way you feel works for you the best IS the best way for you.
Now, here is the way I do it. I may not be right for you but "It works =
for Me".
I have used the old suck on the hose method, then sanitize the end you =
put in your mouth. I re-sanitize by spraying the end with a high-proof =
vodka.
I have used the stick the racking cane through one of those plastic two =
hole caps and give'er a shot of CO2.
I have now graduated, some folks may feel I have sucumbed to, use a =
short piece of an old racking cane. Sanitize it, stick one end into the =
mouth never touches the siphon hose. As The Great One would say, "Away =
we go".
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:32:37 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Bicarb/Campden tablets
Frank asks about bicarb vs carbonate. Unfortunately this is an area
where there does not seem to be consistency in the way things are
reported. The fact of the matter is that carbonate, bicarbonate and
carbonic all interconvert and are in relative proportions which is
controlled by the pH of the sample. At pH 8.3, for example, of the total
number of molecules of all three only about 1 % are carbonic and 1% are
carbonate with the rest (98%) being bicarbonate. At pH 7 only a tiny
fraction of the total is carbonate, about 80% is bicarbonate and the
rest (about 29% is carbonic). In the modern method of reporting it is
the alkalinity which is given. This is a measure of the amount of acid
which is required to convert effectively all the carbonate and
bicarbonate to carbonic and it is, thus, a fair approximation of the
amount of acid that you must add to the mash (in the form of acid
naturally supplied by the malt phosphates, by malt acids or by addition)
to work with the water at hand. The amounts of bicarbonate and carbonate
corresponding to a given alkalinity and pH are easily calculated.
If mash pH's are coming out too low this is an indication that there is
too much acid (too much dark malt is being used), the water is too hard
(too much calcium reacting with the malt phosphates to release acid)
and/or the water is not alkaline enough. Low mash pH is combatted either
by adding bicarbonate or carbonate salts (increasing the effective
alkalinity if the water) and/or reducing the percentage of dark malts in
the grist.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Marc asks about how to carry out Campden tablet treatement. As far as I
know the reaction is instantaneous but the problem, as I'm sure everyone
is aware, is that Campden tablets aren't exactly easy to dissolve. The
recommended dose of 1 tablet per 20 gallons of water should be more than
enough for most waters which are usually pretty low in chloramine by the
time they reach the tap. Therefore, tossing the tablet into the water,
crushing it on the bottom of the pot or carboy and swirling or stirring
should work. You are pretty certainly ready to move on when the water
stops smelling of chlorine when agitated and this should happen pretty
quickly. You can then decant off the undissolved remains of the Campden
tablet and go ahead. A chloramine test kit can be used to be absolutely
sure the stuff has been taken out. These are pretty cheap and you used
to be able to get ones that did both free chlorine and chloramine at pet
stores but there was a problem with cancer in workers exposed to
orthotolidine (used in the chloramine part) and so some of those kits
disappeared. Water testing companies like Hach can still outfit you
inexpensively.
A.J.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:54:15 -0800
From: "Schrempp, Michael" <michael.schrempp@intel.com>
Subject: siphons, language
For the siphon challenged, the failure to start a siphon is almost always
rooted in the same cause, and I learned a simple solution on the HBD about
10 years ago. The problem is that once the fluid is "over the hump" it
starts to run out by gravity, air flows back up and you're screwed. The
trick to a successful siphon start is to get enough fluid over the hump and
down below the level of the fluid in the carboy with enough flow rate to
beat the air trying to flow back the other way. The technique I learned on
the HBD was to raise the siphon hose way up in the sir above the top of the
carboy, then suck the fluid up to the high point of the hose. Once this is
done, quickly lower the hose below the level of the fluid and you're ready
to go. To keep everything clean, use a short "mouth tube" on the end of the
siphon hose.
This language thing. My personal opinion is that there are a number of
people in any gustatory hobby that find great enjoyment in trying to
describe every subtle nuance of the flavor of what they are tasting. For
these people, more words, more complicated words, more obscure words, and
words which require other listeners to stretch their perceptions are a part
of the package. Other of us find great enjoyment in the nuances of RIMS
systems and control, finding and using unusual yeasts, making beer from
dirt, distributing sparge water in the grain bed, etc. There is a tendency
for those that aren't into a particular thing to poo-poo it and trash it,
adding a lot of noise to the HBD signal. Look at the wasted bandwidth we had
a few weeks ago with the Phil's sparge arm discussion (don't use it, don't
own it, don't profit from it, don't care if you do). I propose that we let
this language thread drop and move on to other things. Those that are really
into it can take it offline like the RIMs officiandos do.
Mike Schrempp
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:36:00 -0800
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin@intel.com>
Subject: Beer TV Special
Hi all,
There's a special coming up on the Food TV Network in mid-March. It's
part of Alton Brown's Good Eats series. It's scheduled to be on Wed Mar
13th at 6 & 9PM Pacific time. The description is below:
Amber Waves of Grain
Back in '76, President Jimmy Carter made it legal for us to brew 200 gallons
of our own beer each year. Still, most of us would rather crack open a can
of mass market semi suds than take matters into our own hands. Too bad,
since AB says brewing at home is more fun than rocket science (if you can
imagine) and a heck of a lot better tasting.
If you have any interest in cooking, I'd highly recommend this program. Not
only does he tell you how to make something, but it also explains the
science behind why something works. He's also pretty funny & kind of looks
like Thomas Dolby (80s new wave musician).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:42:02 -0900 (AKST)
From: stihlerunits@mosquitonet.com
Subject: Weissbier Yeasts
Rick Seibt wrote:
>I'm thinking of moving to another yeast, one with a
>good robust weizen character. Can any other Weizen
>lover suggest their favorite yeast? YKCO, White,
>Wyeast, YeastLab (do they still exist)? Has anyone
>used Wyeast #3638? It appears to have the
>characteristics I'm looking for.
>
I've used Wyeast 3638 (Bavarian Wheat Beer) yeast and
it makes a pretty nice weizen.
This yeast produces more character than Wyeast 333
(German Wheat) but it is still not my favorite weizen
yeast.
My favorite yeast for weizens is Wyeast 3068
(Weihenstephan Weizen) yeast. This yeast produces very
nice weizens with a robust phenolic character. I strongly
recommend trying Wyeast 3068 the next time you brew a
weizen.
I hope this helps. Good luck brewing!
Cheers,
Scott Stihler
Fairbanks, Alaska
[2874, 324.9] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3871, 02/21/02
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