Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #3867
HOMEBREW Digest #3867 Sat 16 February 2002
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
***************************************************************
THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:
Northern Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
http://www.northernbrewer.com 1-800-681-2739
Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********
Contents:
campden tablets and lemon juice? (Robert Marshall)
barley growing ("Todd M. Snyder")
Homebrew packaging ("Ray Daniels")
Water Chemicals (mohrstrom)
Beer terminology ("Joel Plutchak")
Bottle Question (Joe Screnock)
Tips for Non-Sanctioned Contest/Exhibit ("Bob Hall")
high diacetyl down under (Alan Meeker)
Aussie diacetyl (Alan Meeker)
RE: cascase to clean kegs. (Christopher Chow)
RIMS PIDs and SSRs (Tony Verhulst)
Yates Hangin' around, Now That the Aussies have dumped him!!! ("Fred Kingston")
RE: beer language, blatant plug, and airlocks (Brian Lundeen)
Water Chemicals/PID controllers (AJ)
Details on MCAB 4, Cleveland, April 12-13 (Paul Shick)
Attenuation Issues? ("Paul Greenland")
RE: Subject: RIMS PIDs and SSRs (Ronald La Borde)
rye (Spencer W Thomas)
beer from dirt/yield ("Dave Sapsis")
Fermentation vessel changes (Al Klein)
cooling 10 gallons ("Joel Halpine")
Stupid Brewer Fun (Kevin Elsken)
Color of iodophor solution (Kevin Elsken)
*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge!
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*
Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org
If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!
To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.
The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.
More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org.
JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:42:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm1@yahoo.com>
Subject: campden tablets and lemon juice?
Hi all,
I plan to make some hard
lemonade. Was wondering if I
should use a Campden tablet
to sulfite the juice, or not.
Have collected just shy of
2 gallons of juice, strained
of most of the pulp.
Thoughts?
Robert
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:50:23 -0500
From: "Todd M. Snyder" <tmsnyder@buffalo.edu>
Subject: barley growing
Hi Randy,
I meant no offense to your green thumb, I'm sure you could get more yield
than a typical barley farmer.
I was only trying to put a _ball_park_number_ on growing area needed to
yield 50 lbs of grain, and was surprised to learn that it's only on the
order of 1000 ft^2. Very do-able by hand, no need for the harvestor I was
hoping to get rid of.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone here ever tried floor malting a few
hundred pounds of barley? Any ideas for how you would kiln small batches of
malt like that? Maybe 50 lbs at a time?
Todd Snyder
<<I have to question his assumption that backyard growing would give
smaller yields. I've been gardening for over 25 years, and I know that
backyard gardeners can get far better yields than farmers>>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:14:38 -0600
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan@ameritech.net>
Subject: Homebrew packaging
Patrick Brochu asks about options for homebrew packaging. I would recommend
that you get a copy of the Sept-Oct 2001 issue of Zymurgy which was devoted
to packaging issues and covered mini-kegs, party pigs and corny kegs in
addition to bottling and counter-pressure filling of bottles.
Hope that helps.
Ray Daniels - [197.8, 264.2] Apparent Rennerian
Editor, Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Director, Brewers Publications
ray@aob.org
773-665-1300
Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual
magazines.
For more information, see www.beertown.org
Don't Miss:
Real Ale Festival - Feb 27 - March 2, 2002 - Chicago, IL
www.realalefestival.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:22:16 -0500
From: mohrstrom@humphrey-products.com
Subject: Water Chemicals
Frank J. Russo asks:
> Anyone know where I might be able to
> procure these items? Got the name of a
> good chem. supply house?
Frank - try:
www.cynmar.com
They even have a section targeted at home/pub/micro brewers. Get the "big"
catalog, though. More nifty toys (especially brushes - I *like* brushes
...), and sometimes better prices.
Also, does anyone have a spreadsheet for calculating the acid additions to
compensate for temporary carbonate hardness?
Also also, can anyone suggest a likely local source for bulk (read "cheap")
food grade phosphoric acid, such as a restaurant supply, and what common
name would these folks recognize? The aforementioned Cynmar has it, but
I'd prefer to dodge the Hazardous Material fee.
Mark in Kalamazoo
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:27:09 +0000
From: "Joel Plutchak" <plutchak@hotmail.com>
Subject: Beer terminology
Steve Alexander wrote:
>Joel Plutchak wrote ... re Bob Klein ...
>> people dump on him not for using "fanciful"
>>language or winespeak, but for the descriptions themselves.
>An honest opinion, but I disagree. The comments against Mr.Klein encompass
>both bad descriptions but primarily his use of terms in describing beer.
... and then goes on to use a single example somebody else
contributed. Interesting debating technique.
Well, Steve, you admitted not being familiar with Klein's
body of work. I, unfortunately, am. The guy's a hack, plain
and simple. (Makes good money at it, though.)
On a more serious note, a lot of what I do these days when
I'm on the clock involves syntactic and semantic translation
of protocols and data (metadata, actually) between different
repositories. The syntactic part is generally much easier,
because even within the same community (e.g., geology, atmospheric
science, geology, botany) they can use the same term for different
things different units for the same piece of data, etc. In order for
people even within a discrete community to be able to communicate
clearly they need a shared language. What some have described asboring and
lifeless language used to describe beer (presumably by
BJCP judges in competition) is as close as we get to having a shared
language. Adding in all kinds of descriptors that mean different
things to different people is a step in the wrong direction if we
want to foster clear communication. Leave it for the coffee table
book and beer-a-day calendar writers. IMprofessionalO.
Joel PlutchakPounding data and beer in East-central Illinois
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:05:39 -0600
From: Joe Screnock <jscren@yahoo.com>
Subject: Bottle Question
Hello to all of you. I've been on this list for over a year but have
not yet seen the need to post. Until now.
Having recently joined the AHA, I received my "welcome packet" which
included a flyer for a company selling flip-top style bottles. The
prices listed were considerably less than what I have been seeing at the
homebrew supply stores. Upon visiting their web-site, I found out they
also carry a limited supply of used bottles for quite a bit less than
their new bottles. When placing my order, I found that the shipping
(from the west coast) would be double the price of the bottles
themselves. As SWMBO is an accountant, I was reminded that I could buy
Grolsch in the local supermarket for almost the same price, thereby
getting "free" beer (my absolute favorite kind, btw) with my bottles.
Before I do that, I'd rather find another cheap supplier of flip-top
bottles that is closer to home. In addition, I have a few bottles
already (Grolsch makes good birthday-christmas-valentine's presents) but
no good case to put them in. I just squeeze 'em in with my regular
bottles, but I can only fit about 4 in each case. Where can I get cases
for these (the west coast supplier sells them, but again, shipping would
kill me)?
I also have a couple larger "champagne" size bottles (New Glarus Brewing
company supplies these bottles with their Award Winning New Glarus
Belgian Red") and they are too tall to fit in the regular beer cases.
Any ideas here?
It's been a fun year getting into homebrewing. I'm glad there is a
forum like this for us to exchange ideas. I have gleaned so much from
this list and want to thank you all for participating, and for the list
janitors for making it such a hassle-free list. This is the most
on-topic list I have ever seen.
Take care and God bless.
Joe Screnock
Morrison, IL
[6608.6, 4.6] (the long way 'round)
[316.8, 265.9] (more directly)
"Those who agree with us may not be correct, but we admire their
astuteness." - Cullen Hightower
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:13:03 -0500
From: "Bob Hall" <rallenhall@hotmail.com>
Subject: Tips for Non-Sanctioned Contest/Exhibit
An organizer for the Napoleon Fall Festival has asked me to consider
developing a home brew contest in celebration of the areas German heritage
(we even have a local village called New Bavaria). There are a few fellows
locally that brew, but no formal club. I'd be surprised if there are more
than 20 entries from half-a-dozen brewers. I've downloaded some forms and
items from AHA, but would like the input from others who may have organized
a small, informal competition/exhibition ..... all tips and advice welcomed.
Thanks in advance.
Bob Hall,
Napoleon, OH
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:04:05 -0500
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker@mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: high diacetyl down under
Phil, you ask about the large amount of diacetyl present in your
fast-fermenting lager. I believe you are a victim of the dreaded "Reverse
Coriolus Versicolor Diacetyl Effect" an all too common occurrence in
Southern Hemisphere fermentations. This problem is seen when down under
brewers, such as yourself, attempt a fermentation using yeast that
originated in the Northern hemisphere. Over the centuries, these Northern
yeast have evolved and adapted to the minute pull of the Earth's rotation,
such that their cells become compartmentalized. This is easily demonstrated
via electron microscopy, where one sees an intracellular
polarization/partitioning between the diacetyl generating enzymes localized
on the left side of the cell, and the diacetyl reducing enzymes located on
the right side of the cell. Here in the Northern hemisphere, the yeast
naturally orient themselves with the Coriolus flow, such that the diacetyl
produced on the left is forced to the right side of the cell, where it is
metabolized. In your case, the Coriolus force is in the /opposite/
direction, thus the diacetyl produced inside the cell is forced further
left, /away from/ the reductive enzymes. The diacetyl then accumulates along
the cell wall on the left side, and eventually diffuses out into the beer.
Normally the yeast will re-utilize diacetyl that does get into the
fermenting beer (the well-known "dactyl rest"), but, here again, you run
into a Coriolus problem. It turns out that all the diacetyl import pumps on
the yeast cell surface are located on the /left/ side of the cell, so even
if the yeast does succeed in transporting the diacetyl into the cell, you
run into the same problem as before, namely that all the reductive enzymes
are on the other side of the cell, against the Coriolus flow.
There are three possible solutions to your problem. First, you could
re-pitch with an Aussie lager yeast which will then be able to properly
reduce the diacetyl. Second, you could transport the fermenting beer across
the equator, where the yeast, now properly Coriolus orientated, will finish
the ferment. Lastly, if you have some engineering skill, you could rig up
some sort of rotating platform to counteract the Southern hemisphere's
Coriolus effect. This is probably the best option as it will allow you, in
the future, to brew with any Northern strain without further trouble.
-Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD
Earth's Northern Rennerian hemisphere
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:20:24 -0500
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker@mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Aussie diacetyl
But seriously Phil...
It is likely that your diacetyl is due to the vigorous yeast activity you
described, especially if, as is likely, you had a lot of yeast cell growth.
Unpleasant alternatives include mutated yeast that over-produces diacetyl
(respiratory deficient, so-called "petite" mutants are one common example),
or an infection with a diacetyl-producing bacteria. Also, are you sure your
ferment didn't get too warm, did you actually take temperature measurements
/of the fermenting wort/ during the two days of strong activity??
At any rate, my guess would be that what you got was the result of fast
yeast growth. Perform a diacetyl rest and all should be well. You may want
to rouse the yeast occasionally, given the settling behavior you described.
Let us know how it turns out!
-Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:53:20 -0500
From: Christopher Chow <theassman6@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: cascase to clean kegs.
i checked out "cascade complete" and it DOES have chlorine in it. Also I
have a box of "sams club" generic cascade powder, and it also has the Cl
How much damage will SS kegs get with acute exposure to cascasde w/ Chlorine?
>Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:32:47 -0500
>From: "Walter H. Lewis III" <wlewis@alliedlogistics.com>
>Subject: RE: 10 gal soda keg modification help (HOW DOES COKE CLEAN THEIR
>KEGS?)
>
>
>Several years ago I began recycling soda kegs for a lemonade business I
>had. During that time I began doing business with a tank recycling
>company in TN. They bought used/damaged kegs/tanks from soda cmpanies,
>reconditioned them and sold them cheep!
>
>
>In working with them over several years, they gave me THEIR secret.
>
>
>Pour 1/2 C Cascade Dishwasher detergent into Keg
>
>
>Fill with HOT Water
>
>
>Seal Lid
>
>
>Shake to insure that the Cascade is desolved
>
>
>Open Popets to expose them to the solution
>
>
>Let sit till cool
>
>
>Rinse WELL
>
>
>They told me it EVEN removes rootbeer flavor from the gaskets!!
>
>
>I tried it, it works!
>
>
>Some people may be concerned with bleach in the Cascade. In discussion
>with CASCADE, I was told that in all but ONE -- I forget which one --
>the "bleaching" agent is oxygen. Stick with regular cascade and you
>should have no chlorine exposure.
>
>
>Walt
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:01:42 -0500
From: Tony Verhulst <verhulst@zk3.dec.com>
Subject: RIMS PIDs and SSRs
Larry Maxwell asks:
>>In other words, do I use the output of the internal SSR to
>>control the external SSR?
Al Klein resonds
>There are ways of doing it all solid state, but the easiest way is a
>mechanical relay with a 110 volt AC coil and contacts that can handle
>your heater (20 amp contacts at least).
With the low price of SSRs, I could not recommend anyone using
mechanical relays given that the solid state version is much more
reliable, IMHO, and just as easy. Like Bill Freeman (HOMEBREW Digest
#3866), I've had very good results using 2 25 amp SSRs to control a 4500
watt heater. See http://www/world.std.com/~verhulst/RIMS/panel.htm.
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:10:20 -0500
From: "Fred Kingston" <fred@kingstonco.com>
Subject: Yates Hangin' around, Now That the Aussies have dumped him!!!
Phil Yates says.....
"the only non Australian HBD folk to visit Burradoo are Ray Kruse"
You know where he is.... we talk to him every day, you're just too snooty to
show up...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:33:59 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen@rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: beer language, blatant plug, and airlocks
Steve Alexander writes:
> Written descriptions of beer ingredient flavors and aromas
> are usually pretty bad. Only AlK's book and a few other rare
> sources take a serious stab at competent descriptions.
> We should do better.
As one of those grunters, I can only admire people that can write
descriptively about beer. Perhaps Klein is a bit over the top, but after
picking it up (yes, I actually paid for it, not had it thrust upon me as a
Xmas present, to be viewed with the same disdain as Grandma's annual knitted
rainbow gloves with 6 fingers), I don't see what the big fuss is about. As
I've said, I started out in the wine world, and maybe I'm just used to this
kind of stuff. I don't pretend to have the breadth or depth of knowledge
about commercial beers that Joel, for example, has, and if Joel thinks
something Klein says is just plain, flat out, poorly researched wrong, I
have no problem with that.
However, as one who has tried to put my aroma and taste sensations into
words, I can tell you, it is no easy task. There are complexities and
nuances, and simple analogies often don't do them justice. IMO, Klein at
least attempts to convey some of that complexity in his writing. I think
what would be very educational would be to take some very specific examples
from Klein, and instead of just running them down as hilarious fancy-speak,
give a detailed analysis of what it is that is actually wrong. Use your own
experience with that beer and tell us how you would describe it to convey
the essence of that beer. And tell us why your way of describing it is
superior to Klein's. I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, and
perhaps this is a poor forum for this type of thing. Maybe this would be
better done in a more real-time environment such as rec.food.drink.beer,
although they are such a foul-tempered little clique I don't think I will be
the one to bring it up there. ;-)
And yes, I would love better descriptions of what malts and hops contribute
to flavour and aroma. I guess as you become more experienced, you develop a
good feel for what they provide, but as a still relatively inexperienced
brewer, I can only guess. For example, if Saaz is "spicy", what type of
spice? Hmmm*, maybe we should get Klein into homebrewing so he can write 365
days of Brewing Ingredients. ;-)
* Before anyone takes me to task for the number of m's in hmmm, I firmly
believe in following the rule of thumb, "Three shall be the count, and the
count shall be three. Four is right out". Also works well for aaargh, aieee,
and of course, holy hand grenades.
Patrick Brochu asks:
> Any known good place where I can
> order supplies for homebrew in Canada (or get them myself in
> Ottawa, Ontario)?
30 howling savages agree...
Buy from Paddock Wood. NAJASCYYY.
Pete Calinski writes:
> Back to airlocks and waaiit a minute. If airlocks pass air
> from "in" to "out" why don't they pass it from "out" to "in"?
> They are not "diodes", they should be bi-directional. I
> just tried one of mine. One with six "globes". I had to suck
> pretty hard on the "in the fermenter" end to get any water to
> come through.
The 6-globe is just an artistic improvement on my favorite, the twin bubble.
That's why I like them, it is very hard to get suck back. The problem lies
mainly with the IMO poorly designed 3-piece airlock, or as I like to call
it, the "dancing hats". If you fill one of these up to the recommended fill
line, there is insufficient volume inside the hat to accommodate the liquid
without pulling some in when there is greater pressure from outside. The
available volume outside the hat(where the liquid normally resides while
under positive pressure from CO2 production) can hold the liquid without
spilling over, and let the gas bubble through. You have to find that very
narrow range of liquid volume so that it still maintains a seal, but won't
get pulled in. Some people have told me they prefer them because they are
easier to clean if some krausen gets up into them. I have had no problem
cleaning out a gunked-up twin-bubble with a soak in PBW solution.
Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing (occasionally) and babbling (often) at [314,829] aka Winnipeg
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:42:46 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Water Chemicals/PID controllers
Adequate water adjustments can be done with calcium sulfate, sodium
chloride, magnesium sulfate, sodium bicarbonate, calcium chloride and
calcium carbonate. All of these are readily available at pharmacy, super
market or homebrewing shop. Magnesium carbonate can be a help in some
cases but the results obtained using it are not dramatically different
from what you get with out it. By adequate I mean that you can get
pretty close to any realizeable water profile using just these salts.
This is an important point because many of the city profiles one finds
in books and magazines are not realizeable (i.e. to have the ion
contents advertized they would have to have pH's that are not within the
range that you would consider for your brewing water.)
Getting chemicals is tough these days. Most of the big suppliers
(Fisher, Spectrum, Cole Parmer...) don't even want to talk to you unless
you are a company, a university or a teacher. Resellers may. Your
background as a chemist may help both in convincing someone to sell to
you and in coming up with ways of getting what you want. For example,
pickling lime (super market) will raise the pH of a solution of epsom
salts high enough that magnesium hydroxide gel forms. Separate this
resuspend and dissolve by bubbling CO2 thru and the result is
essentially magnesium bicarbonate. BTW an advantage of using stuff you
buy at the drug store, home brew store, supermarket or water treatment
supply comoany is that it is fit to consume. If you buy chemicals
elsewhere you have to make the decision as to whether you must have FCC
or USP or are willing to put other grades into your beer (and
subsequently self).
WRT to PID controllers: Depeding on the model of controller you have
there may be multiple options available for output i.e. relay, SSR
drive, switched AC, 4-20ma, 0-5V. Sounds as if you have a unit with the
SSR built in so that your output is 1 amp line. You might investigate
swapping this output module for an SSR drive module or, if this is not
possible buy one of those little DC supplies from Radio Shack, drive
that from the SSR in the controller and use the DC from the power supply
to drive the larger SSR.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:50:20 -0600
From: Paul Shick <shick@jcu.edu>
Subject: Details on MCAB 4, Cleveland, April 12-13
Hi all,
Here's a short summary of the festivities for the upcoming
MCAB 4:
The Fourth Annual Masters Championships of Amateur Brewing
will be held in Cleveland on Friday and Saturday, April 12 and 13,
2002, at the Renaissance Hotel and Great Lakes Brewing Company.
The local arrangements are being handled by a consortium of
members of the Society of Northeast Ohio Brewers (SNOBs)
and the Society of Akron Area Zymurgists (SAAZ). We'll have more
details on the conference and competition in the weeks to come, but
we wanted to get as much information out to the homebrewing community
as possible at this time. If you have any questions, feel free to
email Karl Weeber (overall organizer, beersnob1@yahoo.com),
Chuck Bernard (competition/judging, bernardch@mindspring.com)
or me (Paul Shick, conference organizer, shick@jcu.edu). Updates
will be posted regularly at the MCAB web site: hbd.org/mcab. We're
planning to cover as much of our expenses as possible from donations
from sponsors, so we hope to get by with a registration charge of
about $40-50, which will include all the conference and banquet, etc.
Again, we'll have more details soon.
Speakers (confirmed as of 2/14/02.) We'll have detailed titles and
abstracts later.
Steve Alexander (HBD regular, Society of Akron Area Zymurgists)
Dick Cantwell (Elysian Brewing, coauthor of Barley Wine volume)
A.J. DeLange (Zeta Associates, HBD regular)
Alan Meeker (Johns Hopkins University, HBD regular)
Dave Miller (Blackstone Brewpub, author of numerous brewing books)
Chuck Skypeck (Boscos Brewing)
Gordon Strong (Dayton Regional Amateur Ferm. Tech's, BJCP)
Andy Tveekrem (Frederick Brewing)
Chris White (White Labs)
The topics to be covered include stone beer, sanitation, yeast
and dubbels.
We've arranged with the Association of Brewers to get reduced rates at
the Cleveland Renaissance Hotel, an easy (and cheap) light rail train
ride from the airport. See the web site for how to get this discount.
Judging will take place at the hotel on Friday evening and at the
conference site, the "Tasting Room" at Great Lakes Brewing Company's
new brew house, on Saturday. A formal call for judges will follow
on JudgeNet.
A detailed schedule can be found on the hbd.org/mcab website, along
with practically anything else you might want to know.
Paul Shick
Cleveland Hts, OH
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:16:28 -0700
From: "Paul Greenland" <paul.greenland@onsemi.com>
Subject: Attenuation Issues?
I have just brewed 10 gallons of "smoky London Porter" an all grain batch. I
pitched the yeast [1+ pint London ESB 1968 from local brewery] into the wort
at 24 deg C and it fermented briskly for a couple of days. I use a stainless
cylindro-conical fermenter and dumped the trub and about 2 pints of
beautiful yeast after the fermentation had subsided. The OG was 1060, the
new gravity is 1018, did I dump the yeast too early? Should I re-pitch? or
are there just some unfermentable dextrins raising the gravity? I tasted the
hydrometer sample, quite nice, good body, over-hopped [oops!, screwed up the
hop utilization scaling the recipe].
Many thanks,
Paul Greenland.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:32:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Ronald La Borde <pivoron@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Subject: RIMS PIDs and SSRs
Larry Maxwell asks:
>I recently bought a PID controller with a solid-state
relay
>(SSR) output from Omega Eng'g, but failed to read the
>spec sheet closely enough, which noted that the SSR
>handles only 1A max. I am guessing what I need is
>another (external) SSR that handles 20A or so to
control
>my 1500 W heater element (at 120 V). Is this
correct?
>In other words, do I use the output of the internal
SSR to
>control the external SSR? Seems logical, but before
I
>buy one I wanted to ask those in the know.
Since I hate to draw in ASCII text, I will attempt to
verbally describe what you need.
The PID can handle a maximum of 1A, however it will
probably operate with a load
much smaller than 1A. You need to know or guess at
the minumum or low end of
the operating current. Too little current (or too
high a resistance load) and the
PID may fail to cycle on/off.
I will assume the PID will work nicely with a load
current of .1A. Now you can use
a transformer to supply the PID circuit with 12 volts
AC, or you can just not
use a transformer and use 120 volts directly. You
would need a load that can handle
12 watts (120V x .1A = 12 watts), good engineering
suggests about a 25 watt ability.
So you wire up the PID to a 120V AC circuit with load
resistance that will cause a
.1 ampere current. Using I=E/R, 120/.1=1200 ohms.
So you go on a hunt for a 25
watt 1200 ohm resistor.
Actually you look for a 1000 ohm and a 200 ohm
resistor that you wire in series.
You do this so that you can obtain a voltage accross
the 200 ohm resistor to drive
your SSR which will operate with around 3 to 32 volts
DC ( E=I*R, so .1*200=20 volts).
This may sound complicated, but it is really not so,
only 2 resistors and a diode bridge.
You connect a full wave diode bridge accross the 200
ohm resistor and the output of
the bridge will be 20 volts rectified AC. Actually
more than 20 volts because the AC
being RMS 120 volts will actually peak at 1.414 times
20 or 28.2 volts peak.
This is connected to the large SSR as the control
signal. If it bothers you that
the signal is not DC, but rectified pulses, go ahead
and place a capacitor accross the
SSR input terminals and you will now have DC.
So there you are -- happy brewing!
Ron
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie Louisiana, New Orleans
is the subberb of Metairie Louisiana
pivoron@yahoo.com
www.hbd.org/rlaborde
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:09:16 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: rye
I was reading an old Malt Advocate the other day, and chanced on an
interview with Fritz Maytag about their Rye Whiskey. He related an
amusing anecdote:
Q: Now that you've been essentially brewing a pre-whiskey beer with
rye, is there any chance you might brew an all-rye malt beer?
A: I don't rule out anything, but it doesn't particularly interest
me. One of the amusing things that happened during this rye whiskey
project was that we were keeping it secret, and we succeeded. But for
some strange reason, some of arch-competitors up in the Northwest, who
buy from the same maltster that we often buy from, began to brew rye
beers around this time. We've long suspected that they were led down
the garden path by certain information that they shouldn't have
gotten. It amused us to see the rye beers come and go right around
that time.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:36:33 -0800
From: "Dave Sapsis" <dsapsis@earthlink.net>
Subject: beer from dirt/yield
Based on crops from my back yard, where I have been growing barley for three
seasons, my dry seed yields have been on the order of .03 pounds/ft^2 --
thus 100 sq. foot of area yields 3 pounds of seed barley. Some of this
reduction in yield no doubt has been due to edge induced lodging (small
eccentric-shaped beds typically have lots of edge and hence high lodging)
unknown seed variety, less than optimal planting density, and a somewhat
haphazard threshing technique.
My attempts at malting have significantly reduced further the *malt* yield
from the backyard.
However, my quest for beer from the backyard continues. Steve Alexander and
I are acquiring some solid 2-row malting seed (B1202 for those interested),
I know optimal planting density now (~25 corns/ft^2), and hope to expand my
planting area. The haphazard threshing will no doubt continue.
I'm gonna work on my malting techniques with leftover seed from the sack ;-0
good gardening,
- --dave, sacramento
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 19:53:45 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat@optonline.net>
Subject: Fermentation vessel changes
On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:10:08 -0500, in rec.crafts.brewing you wrote:
>Michael T. Bell is concerned with:
>Will the brass and/or copper on the insider of the keg affect the
>fermentation at all? Any other thoughts/concerns?
Since at least some brew pubs ferment in copper, it would appear that
copper doesn't cause a problem in fermenters.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9]
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:20:22 -0600
From: "Joel Halpine" <jhalpine@esu4.org>
Subject: cooling 10 gallons
Sorry, I think a draft of this was sent before it was finished.
I recently found a huge SS pot with a threaded nipple at the bottom at a
junkyard. After I have it checked by a welder to be sure the nipple weld is
food safe (aren't there some welds that are not food safe?),
I will be preparing to occasionally brew 10 gallon batches.
I still need the mast tun, and I could ask what is recommended, SS or cooler
(my 5 gallon batches are all done with a 5 gallon gott cooler--should have
bought bigger). However, what I really want to know is how to cool that
much wort. I currently use an immersion chiller I made from wrapping copper
pipe
around a pot, and it cools to 70 F in 15-20 min, but I think I may need to
use a counterflow chiller to get my cooling done with a 10 gallon batch. I
am sure many of you have experimented, and I would like to draw from your
experiences. How long and what diameter copper do you use? I see
directions with varying lengths. I suppose a significant factor would be
the ground water temp. If I could gather info on what those of you out
there are using, and your geography (or your cold water temp) I could
probably figure it out from there. I was going to delay this message until
I took a home cold water temp, but since I accidentally sent a preview, I
will post now.
Joel Halpine
Lincoln, NE
(Ed: since this "preview" was essentially this entire note less two lines,
the Janitors have deleted it. Folks: PLEASE do not delete your "receipts"
from the HBD server until AFTER your article has published. Thanks.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:36:06 -0500
From: Kevin Elsken <k.elsken@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Stupid Brewer Fun
I was getting ready to transfer a recently brewed mild ale from the
plastic primary into a corny keg secondary. Being one of those brewers
that finds no fun in siphoning, I hit upon an excellent idea. I
connected the siphon tubing from the racking cane to the "beer out"
fitting on the keg, and then put a short piece of tubing on the "gas in"
fitting. The idea was to close the keg, suck on the gas out line, and
voila, beer transferred, no siphoning.
Mental note - a mouthful of carbon dioxide gas lacks the fine taste of a
well brewed ale.
Actually all went fairly well (luckily lung power is one thing the Lord
saw fit to give me) and after a bit the siphon went well. I think a
nice hand vacuum pump might be just the trick here. I was thinking they
make those things for automotive applications such as bleeding brakes or
sucking oil out of the differential.
Another suggestion for the siphon challenged.
Kevin Elsken
Little Boy Brewery
North Strabane, PA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:42:17 -0500
From: Kevin Elsken <k.elsken@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Color of iodophor solution
I bought some iodine test papers the other day and after conducting said
test it looked like my sanitizing solution had all the power of
Monongahela river water. My solution was a light amber color. In the
past I have mixed up my sanitizing solution to get a 12.5 ppm iodine
level, and the color was a light amber, or so I thought. Anyway, after
seeing my solution was weak (some say I was born a few PPM short...), I
added more iodine till the test paper showed a nominal 12.5 ppm level.
Now the solution is more the color of apple cider.
What gives? Should it be that dark, or are the test papers unreliable?
Perhaps they are made by the same people who make the iodophor ;-)...
Kevin Elsken
Little Boy Brewery
North Strabane, PA
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3867, 02/16/02
*************************************
-------
