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HOMEBREW Digest #3850
HOMEBREW Digest #3850 Mon 28 January 2002
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Mallory (ensmingr)
propane tanks & new laws ("Ray Conn")
CO2 regulator conversion and Airports ("email")
Pipe threads ("Nigel Porter")
recipe of Pumpkin beer ("Martin Hofhuis")
Re: Do You Scoop? (Brian Levetzow)
CO2 shortage? ("Don Watts")
Hop Character ("Peter Fantasia")
oatmeal aroma / First AG (Road Frog)
Re: NPT Locknuts / RIMS control ("Drew Avis")
NPT nuts (stpats)
Oxyclean as a sanitizer (Chris)
Carboys (glen)
How do I krauesen my lager?? (Chris)
OxyClean ("Bret Mayden")
Re: oatmeal stout (Jeff Renner)
re: diluted IBU (Rama Roberts)
Subject: Do You Scoop? ("Mike")
Grain Storage ("Mike Pensinger")
One-Step ("Caryl Hornberger")
Batch sparging believer (Brian Levetzow)
Re: Do You Scoop? (Jeff Renner)
Re: force carbs, step mash (Jeff Renner)
One-step = Bad for Sanitizing? (was re: oxyclean as sanitizer) (Dave Larsen)
Minnesota Pubs, etc. ("JZ")
hop utilisation and chilling ("Dr. Pivo")
Re: Minimal Allgrain Setup? (Roy Roberts)
hop aroma (Patrick Twohy)
One Step Sanitizer (?) ("Andrew Moore")
Subject: Partial boils in microwave? ("Henry Van Gemert")
Beer Filtering (Erik Nelson)
New Orleans brew scene (Al Klein)
Brewing Techniques ("Mike Brennan")
Ready to bottle first brew need advice. ("Tray Bourgoyne")
Ireland trip (Mitchell Surface)
*
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* 1/25/02 info: http://www.homebreweronline.com
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* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:07:09 -0500
From: ensmingr@twcny.rr.com
Subject: Mallory
True, as Robin Griller noted in HBD #3849 (
http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/3849.html#3849-7 ), that Mallory
lost his business. Poor baby. The cause was his own incompetence.
Why should I sympathize with an incompetent businessman who
steals my money? It is naive to think that Mallory, having lost
his business, is personally broke. Any good accountant will
shield a client's personal assets from business assets. Rest
assured Robin, when BT went belly up, Mallory's pockets were not
empty.
Jerry "Beaver" Pelt, also in HBD #3849 (
http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/3849.html#3849-9 ), noted that
"Peter obviously is not, has never been, nor will ever be a
business owner" Au contraire Jerry! My wife and I own my own an
incorporated business and have supported ourselves for over 10
years without ripping off anybody.
Why did Ken Cada, also in HBD #3849 (
http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/3849.html#3849-18 ), recently get his
back issues of BT, but I didn't after having waited all this
time? Might be something to do with the BT/CEN name subterfuge
that that Jim noted in HBD #3848 (
http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/3848.html#3848-28 ).
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:14:09 -0500
From: "Ray Conn" <dawgpatch2@centurytel.net>
Subject: propane tanks & new laws
Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke@merck.com>-writes
>Now I know why I like Jeff, he's sneaky like me. I had an old tank which
>might not pass inspection because of it's old, cruddy valve. Rather than
>buy a new one, I exchanged it at the gas station for slightly more than the
>cost of the propane itself. No questions asked. I now have a new tank
with
>the overfill protection which does not need to be inspected for 7 years.
>You can also do the same with your CO2 tank. Since I paid cash for mine, I
>always ask for my tank back when I get it filled. But once it comes close
>to the hydro test date or needs a new valve, I'm going to pull my name off
>of it and just exchange it. Let them absorb the cost.
But they don't absorb the cost,it's figured in the price after they figure
losses
Ray Conn
already paying too much in Hale
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:18:15 -1000
From: "email" <thx1386@yahoo.com>
Subject: CO2 regulator conversion and Airports
Greetings Beer people tinkerers,
Has anyone out there ever converted or thought about converting an acetylene
welding regulator to use as a CO2 regulator for a kegging system? A friend
of mine happen to find a regulator while cleaning out his garage and passed
it on to me; and I, having no immediate use for it in its intended purpose
(I already have a setup.) immediately began thinking "How can I convert this
to beer use?" I realize I would need to change the connecting bushing to a
CO2 tank compatible one. Is there anything else that I'm missing in this
adventure? TIA
On that question regarding beer through the airports. I advise caution as
your mileage may vary. During the holidays my friends and I came through
the airport with bottles of wine. I had one unopened bottle. The guard
scrutinized the cap and cork and allowed me through. My girlfriend carried
a partial bottle that we hadn't finished in our dash to the airport. The
guard held everybody up; looked at it, sniffed it, swirled it, wasn't going
to let it through, consulted, and then eventually, after embarrassing my
girlfriend and exasperating everyone in line allowed her to carry it through
after verifying that it was indeed wine. My friend who followed was carrying
two unopened bottles. Security wouldn't let him through saying that
passengers were allowed only one bottle per person. Yes, they confiscated
the second bottle explaining that it could be used as a weapon. Somehow the
logic escaped me. You are warned.
GP Kea
As near as I can figure it
4493.61, 251.8 Rennerian
GP Kea
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 09:31:29 -0000
From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel@sparger.co.uk>
Subject: Pipe threads
With the UK digest currently off line I'll have to post unremarkable
comments here instead...
Earl L. Gasner askers
>P.S. God (or a European) only knows what a metric pipe thread would
>be called (:-)
Here in the UK we use BSP threads - this I think is British Standard
Pipe. In engineering applications for cable glands etc we use either
metric (ie M20, M25) or NPT (1/2" or 3/4" are direct equvalents).
I also find it amusing when dealing with US based clients when I quote
metric dimensions to be asked for them in English units. I have always
grown up with metric as English units!
Nigel Porter
Guildford, Surrey, UK
(no idea about Renerian location)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:33:47 +0100
From: "Martin Hofhuis" <hofbeer@planet.nl>
Subject: recipe of Pumpkin beer
Hello fellow brewers,
I am a Dutch home brewer and associated to a amateur Home brewers Club,
named DE ROERSTOK. That name is translated in English, The Stir stick.
So I am a redactor of our journal, I often receive questions of beginning
brewers. I am functioning also as a mentor for them.
One of the questions I last received was a request for Pumpkin beer recipe.
It did me scratch behind my ears.
Secondly I thought, maybe the American brewers can help me, for they are
known as brewers of a great variety of special and rare beers.
I hope that anyone can help me and my questioners, in or outside the USA.
Martin Hofhuis
hofbeer@planet.nl
Tilburg, The Netherlands
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 09:08:38 -0500
From: Brian Levetzow <levetzowbt@home.com>
Subject: Re: Do You Scoop?
Walt writes:
>I am an all grain brewer (yes, with whirrygig) and like the beers I
>make. I'm wondering if you scoop the foam that appears on the top of the
>newly started boil....<SNIP>... If you don't, why not?
I've only done this when my hot-side break was about to cascade down the
side of the kettle. Otherwise, I just throttle the propane to control
the foaming until it's gone. After the foam, but before the hops, I
have had occasion to skim little "slicks" of crud now and again, but not
very often. No scientific reasoning here, just my method.
>Now a brief survey, if a buddy said that he just brewed up his "Smokey
>Porter", a really good brew, but found that the rauchmalt was buggy,
>would you drink it? I was done my milling and found those little buggers
>crawling around. Well I'm cheap! I would have had to throw away 9
>pounds of malt. I didn't, I brewed. I do intend on telling anyone who
>may have one that it is "Buggy, Smokey Porter" tm.
Of course I'd drink it, and they should too. You've boiled everything,
so there should not be anything nasty left.
Besides, that porter will have some extra protein, and a little extra
body (parts). ( B^)
- --
+++++++++++++++
Brian Levetzow
~
Laurel, MD
[425.7, 118.5] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 09:16:27 -0500
From: "Don Watts" <dwatts23@home.com>
Subject: CO2 shortage?
I just had two 20lb tanks filled, when I went to pay I found that the price
was significantly higher than last time, went from .89 to $1.02 lb. I asked
about it and was informed that there was a shortage of CO2, that the company
(Holox)was having to buy it where it could find it, and truck it farther to
distributors. Anyone else noticed this?
Don Watts
Duck Ditch Brewing
Goose Creek, SC
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 09:52:35 -0500
From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter@hotmail.com>
Subject: Hop Character
Mark in Kalamazoo asks how to get more/better hop character in his beers.
The tried and true method is to experiment with the 30 minute, 15 minute and
the knockoff hop additions. Make sure you're using fresh aromatic hops. If
all else fails dry hop. 1/2 oz. to an oz. in the secondary for a week will
give a nice aroma. Use fresh whole hops preferably.
Pete Fantasia in The loveley Pine Barrens of Southern New Jersey
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 07:01:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Road Frog <road_frog_run@yahoo.com>
Subject: oatmeal aroma / First AG
Emily E Neufeld <eneufeld@juno.com> typed:
"Now for brewing: what is the recommended amount
of oats for an oatmeal stout? I used about a 1lb in
an 11.25lb grain bill. It has the silkiness of the
oats but could use more of the aroma."
You have to use aroma oats. When you do this it is
best to use noble oats.
I use about 1.5 to 1.75 pounds per 5 gallons.
Personally I have never noticed an aroma from oats.
It is a feel and flavor. Maybe the other aromas mask
it.
First All Grain
Made a copper manifold and rigged a ball valve on the
family cooler. Now 7 years later I need to retire the
cooler. My wife went and bought her own cooler within
a year, but that did not come out of my beer budget.
Checked a 50 lb. sack of barley as luggage so I didn't
have any shipping expense.
Using my homemade grain mill (have to watch that
budget) sweated and cussed my way to 25 lbs of crushed
grains. I was trying for a 1.080 tripel, figured if I
didn't make it I would still have something.
Everything went well ended up at 1.072.
Way down yonder in the land of cotton. Apparent
Rennerian
Glyn Crossno
Estill Springs, TN
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 09:58:30 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: NPT Locknuts / RIMS control
Greetings brewers, I just returned from Home Despot with the parts to
re-build my GOTT manifold, including 2 brass NPT locknuts. Master Plumber
part #442 (at least in Canada, may be different in the US). Kent Fletcher
was indeed correct, they are labeled "Brass locknut for lavatory faucet."
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about RIMS heater control.
I guess I should have been more specific: I'm looking for ways to manually
control the temp of a 240V electric heater running at 240V in a kettle. A
dial-type control like that used on a stove would be ideal. On the subject,
I remember reading a few years ago in this very digest that the threads on
electric hot water tank heater elements were 1/2", but not NPT. Has anyone
mounted one of these threaded elements in a sankey keg? What type of
coupling is required?
Cheers!
Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca
If you ever teach a yodeling class, probably the hardest thing is to keep
the students from just trying to yodel right off. You see, we build to that.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 09:31:59 -0600
From: stpats@bga.com
Subject: NPT nuts
I think Earl Gasner has it right. For a bulkhead fitting you are
looking for 'parallel' or straight threads, not tapered.
The only kind of thread I knew eleven years ago had a needle on one
Go to www.mcmaster-carr.com and plug in 'page 3' in the search to get
a nice description of the difference between tapered and parallel
threads. There is a scale on page 2 that should allow you to
determine the size of whatever thread you have. I say should
because I haven't been able to get it to print to the same scale, as
a pdf or whatever??
btw, page 2 also describes stainless steel, brass, and other materials.
Earl mentions 'whitworth' thread (BSW British Standard Whitworth)
which you won't find there. I recently came across this and took it
to my machinist who identified it. I was told it is not used in
Europe anymore (BSPP and BSPT are, British Standard Pipe-Parallel and
BSP-Tapered).
Earl mentions NC and NF (National course and national fine, straight
threads). You won't find them mentioned there either but you will
find UNC and UNF (Unified national coarse and Unified National Fine)
which aren't exactly the same thing but in practice it doesn't matter
since they are interchangeable. NC and NF are the old American
threads which became "unified" by NATO to make repair of equipment
from different NATO countries easier.
There is also metric (ISO metric I think) but I have enough trouble
keeping this other stuff straight, or tapered;-)
Lynne
St. Pats
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 12:27:14 -0600
From: Chris <chris@webesota.com>
Subject: Oxyclean as a sanitizer
Dave Darrity asked about OxyClean as a sanitizer, and he got several
responses. Let me add my $0.02
DON'T USE THIS PRODUCT ON STAINLESS STEEL!!!!
I learned the hard way. It seems to clean plastic and glass very well, but
oh my it did a number on my brew kettle.
I filled my 10-gal stainless kettle with a weak solution of OxyClean and
water, amused myself by watching it bubble for a little while and went to
bed, knowing that my keetle would be sparkling shiny clean in the AM.
Yikes -- I woke up and found a black film covering the inside of my kettle,
and I fear it's ruined. I've scrubbed and scrubbed, and it looks like I've
gotten most of the corrosion/oxidation/whatever it is (?), but I've been
afraid to use the kettle again.
If I can't use it, I'm out about $120 for a new one... boo hoo hoo.
OxyClean doesn't have any bleaches in it, but it sure acted like a bleach
on my stainless.
chris carson
Eden Prairie, MN
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 10:46:17 -0500
From: glen <glen@pannicke.net>
Subject: Carboys
Jeff wrote of carboys:
>Another help is a plastic milk crate for each carboy. It
>also makes it easier to carry and protects them from bumps.
Can't stress this enough. Even with a handle and supporting the bottom of
the carboy with my other hand, I managed to bump a 3 gallon carboy on the
tile floor and then had 3 gallons of iodophor and glass shards to clean up.
I managed to clean and bandage the gash on my hand before I cracked out the
wet/dry shop vac (BTW, excellent tool for this kinda mess). It probably
needed a stitch or two, but hey, minor scars on a man are cool ;-) My few
remaining glass carboys are now in crates!
Glen Pannicke
Now enjoying zero lockups under Linux - Mr. Gates, KMA!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 12:39:23 -0600
From: Chris <chris@webesota.com>
Subject: How do I krauesen my lager??
I have 4.75 gallons of a lager that I'm getting set to bottle.
I recently read a couple of different pieces about krausening, and why it's
good for lagers that have aged for a couple of months (like mine).
"An Analysis Of Brewing Techniques" mentions the practice, as does "The
Homebrewer's Companion ". Neither one really talks much about how to apply
it to your own little five-gallon batch.
I went to a homebrew shop here in the Twin Cities, and when I said i wanted
to add freshly fermenting wort to my bottling bucket to prime the beer, the
guy helping me (well, not helping me) said, "ugh, splutter, you cant do
that!!!" I thought my chances were better here for some expert advice.
Specific questions:
1) What kind of yeast? The same one i brewed with? Is there a good,
neutral sort of yeast that would be well suited for krauesening because it
would not change the brew I'm bottling?
2) How much wort should i use for my batch? My batch is about 4.75 US
gallons. Fix (Analysis of Brewing Techniques) suggests 15%-20% of the
total volume as an amount to use. However, his examples use sealed tanks
that I could vent CO2 from. I am bottling, so I'm thinking that I should
use less?
3) At what point do I add the wort to my bottling bucket? Papazian (The
Homebrewer's Companion) says 4 to 6 hours, but I have read in other places
to add the wort at high krausen (maybe 24 hours or so later)?
Any comments???
chris carson
Eden Prairie, Minnesota
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:18:30 +0000
From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden@hotmail.com>
Subject: OxyClean
FWIW, I queried the manufacturer of OxyClean a few weeks ago, via e-mail,
when this question of using it as a sanitizer came up in the HBD forum. The
response I received stated that OxyClean "...is not considered a sanitizer."
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:30:30 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: oatmeal stout
Emily E Neufeld <eneufeld@juno.com> (but I'll bet it's really Drew), asks:
>what is the recommended amount
>of oats for an oatmeal stout? I used about a 1lb in an 11.25lb grain
>bill. It has the silkiness of the oats but could use more of the aroma.
In his book "Designing Great Beers," Ray Daniels cites M. Matchuski's
1994 Zymurgy article "Oats: The Right Grain to Brew" and writes:
"In oatmeal stout, it [oats] accounts for about 22% of the grist."
Now that's pretty specific as I'm sure it varies all over the place,
but why not just try it and see how it turns out? I'm not sure if
you are going to get much of an aroma over the dark malt. And
consider using malted oats (Thomas Fawcett & Sons malt oats).
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 11:50:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Rama Roberts <rama@eng.sun.com>
Subject: re: diluted IBU
> Well, I just brewed up a stout and overshot my target OG
> (1065 instead of 1045). I had six gallons of wort in the
> fermentor and added 3 gallons of water to bring the OG down
> to 1044. My question is, how large an impact will the
> addition of three gallons of water to six gallons of wort
> have on the finished beer's bitterness (prediluted IBU=30)?
This batch in underhopped. You can rescue it with some hop
extract. Dave Miller recommends the pre-isomerized extracts
(by dissolving the hop resins and oils in liquid carbon dioxide)
because it preserves hop aroma also, rather than just bitterness.
Making a hop tea yourself would probably work also.
http://realbeer.com/hops/aroma.html
Rama Roberts
San Francisco bay area
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 15:23:03 -0500
From: "Mike" <brewski@inet99.net>
Subject: Subject: Do You Scoop?
Yes, I scoop the pre-boil and early-boil foam off the wort up when the foam
stops forming. Why, a friend of mine, he is now president of our homebrew
club, taught me to do that. He was brewing all-grain at the time and I was
just getting into extract brewing. I have been all-grain now for about 5
years. It is suppose to cut down on off flavors.
About the buggy beer. I now usually HB and split 10 gal batches with a
friend of mine (He has an out of date official Kentucky license plate on the
front of his car with KEGMAN on it). About a year ago, when xfering to the
secondary he noticed a fly in the primary. We don't know when the little
beer stealing devil drank his fill but he, may be it was a she, died with a
smile on the face. Anyway, we drank the beer. Kegman called his Fly Trap,
and I called mine My Fly. It was one of the better brews, and we do make
good beer, we have produced.
Kegman through the fly away so unfortunately we can't use it to brew another
beer. Not knowing when the fly entered the beer, in the wort while we were
sparging, during the brew (how many minutes into it) or in the primary...
Just when should one add the fly to the brew?
Mike
P.S. Should you drink your buggy beer? No! You should send it to me. My
address is...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:14:56 -0500
From: "Mike Pensinger" <Beermkr@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Grain Storage
I have one word for you... Tupperware. I keep all my grain ing tupperware
modular mates. The stack well and are air and liquid tight. If you talk
nicely to your local Tupperware person they may be able to still get the big
tubs that will hold 2/3 of a bag of grain.
Mike Pensinger
beermkr@bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~beermkr/
Norfolk Virginia - [551.4, 132.9] Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 20:08:10 -0500
From: "Caryl Hornberger" <chornberger10@home.com>
Subject: One-Step
In HBD#3849 Leo comments on Dave's previous question:
> Hello all. I am a new poster so please forgive any novice errors.
> recently noticed a product called "Oxyclean" intended for stain
> removal,
> and general cleaner. The listed ingredients were Sodium Percarbonates
> and
> Sodium Carbonates. I was thinking these were the same ingredients for
> "one-step" sanitizer. I was wondering if the "oxyclean" would be
> suitable to
> use for cleaning and sanitizing my brew equipment.
> Many Thanks,
> Dave Darity
>Dave the problem I see...IMHO One-step is not a suitable sanitizer.
>I tried it several years ago, and produced a string of infected beers.
>I corrected that by switching to Iodophor.
>Other brewers tell me they do fine with one-step. However, I remember
>one who claimed that and I tried his beer. It too had an infection,
>just not a obvious as mine.
>
>I remember a Zymurgy article on sanitizers that described one-step as a
>cleaner, not a sanitizer.
How do I know if my beer is infected? I've brewed four batches, all
using only one-step to clean all my equipment and bottles and cannot
perceivably tell if my beer is infected.
Caryl Hornberger
Ft. Wayne, IN
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 20:36:21 -0500
From: Brian Levetzow <levetzowbt@home.com>
Subject: Batch sparging believer
Greetings all --
Finally got around to brewing up a porter Saturday (been sitting on the
ingredients since November). I've been reading with interest all of the
information on batch sparging. So I modified my instructions, set aside
my sparge arm (a.k.a. whirlygig, but relax Dan, I still needed Phil's
Phalse bottom), and went for it.
8.0 lbs Briess 2-row
0.5 lbs Cara-pils
0.5 lbs Crystal 60L
0.5 lbs Chocolate
0.25 lbs Black Patent
0.75 oz. Perle 5.5% - 60 min
0.75 oz. Perle 5.5% - 30 min
0.5 oz. Perle 5.5% - 15 min
White Labs WLP001 - dregs from an APA
- --I thickened my mash up from normal (1.1 qts/lb, normally 1.3 for me).
170 strike, 152 mash-in, only mashing the 2-row, cara, and CM60 for 45
min.
- --Added the choc. and BP, and 1.2 gal boiling water, stirred up the
thinned mash, hit 168F, and let it sit for 15 min.
- --Brought 4.2 gal water up to 180F, poured into a separate bucket and
set aside.
- --Recirc'd 4 qts of wort (really running clear after three, which
surprised me considering the disturbance of the grain bed), put the hose
in the kettle, and let 'er rip wide open until the tun was dry, ignoring
the sudden cloudiness at the end of the run.
- --Poured in the next batch of hot water (most of it), stirred, rested
for 5 min, recirc'd 4 qts again (and again, surprised at how quickly the
grain bed sets as a filter), and opened up the outflow wide open again,
topping off the tun with the remaining water that didn't fit.
Results?
I normally have been getting 70+% kettle efficiency based on points (80%
after boil), and this dropped to the low 60s% kettle efficiency (can't
be exact, because the sample I pulled and cooled was just short of
floating the hydrometer - I'm guessing 33 pts / 54 pts = 61%). After
boil calc was 73%, which yielded in a net drop of 6 points in OG (got
1.050, would have expected 1.056 in my normal setup).
Although I didn't save any time overall (still took 5+ hrs), this method
certainly nixed the need for a 3rd tier HLT. Given a few modifications
to my process, I could get this process under 5 hours.
The most surprising item was how quickly the stirred grain bed settled
into a nice filter - especially after the 2nd addition of water, which
was a large, heavy SPLOOSH of hot water, and a really good stirring.
So my one lingering question is about the cloudiness at the end of both
sparge cycles. Is there any big deal here?
- --
+++++++++++++++
Brian Levetzow
~
Laurel, MD
[425.7, 118.5] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:10:17 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Do You Scoop?
Walt Crowder <walcin1@home.com> wrote from Medford New Jersey
>I'm wondering if you scoop the foam that appears on the top of the
>newly started boil.
I remove the dark scummy, coagulated foam, but I don't know why. I
guess I just don't have anything else to do while I watch it at this
early stage when boilovers are most common. After the foam stops
forming they are less likely, and it's generally suggested that you
should wait until then to add hops.
>Of coarse if you FWH you can't remove that foam.
That's not true - it works fine. The first wort hops stay below the
scummy, coagulated foam.
> Now a brief survey, if a buddy said that he just brewed up his "Smokey
>Porter", a really good brew, but found that the rauchmalt was buggy, would
>you drink it?
I might not brew with it, but I can't imagine anything harmful coming
through the brew and boil.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:40:11 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: force carbs, step mash
Brian Lundeen <blundeen@rrc.mb.ca> writes from Winnipeg
>Double-not Renner brings up a couple of things I would like to pursue:
>>
>> So if my target is, say, 12 psi at 45 deg F, I'll end up (when things
>> go right), bubbling the very last CO2 at exactly that. Voila! The
>> equilibrium that you seek, achieved in less than a half hour.
>
>The question I wonder about with force carbonating relates not so much with
>getting the quantity of carbonation you desire, but the quality. When you
>blast the CO2 into solution over a half hour, instead of a couple weeks, do
>you not get the impression that the carbonation is not stable, that it will
>go flat more quickly in the glass? I tend to be a slow sipper, not a
>quaffer, so perhaps this is more of an issue for me. Over time, they should
>be indistinguishable, but right off the hop (sorry), I would suspect a
>poorer carbonation.
Ah, yes. That's one of the things Jethro Bodine wanted to be, a
double-naught spy, along with a brain surgeon, big Hollywood agent,
and some other things I forget.
Anyway, I'm quite sure that that is a myth. There's no reason to
think that CO2 "knows" how fast it went into solution. Dissolved CO2
is dissolved CO2.
I have a little bit of an open mind as to whether or not "natural
carbonation" produces longer lasting or finer carbonation, although I
am skeptical. I guess it is possible that there might be some
changes in proteins or something, especially in the case of actual
kraeusening. But fast or slow force carbonation? No difference.
> > Mash 154F 60 minutes. Actually, though, I did a 40/60/70C mash (30
>> minutes at each step) adding the corn at 60C. The 40C rest may have
>> helped break down beta-glucans in the barley, and passing from 40 to
>> 60 over 30 minutes or so effectively gave me a protein rest, which
>> may have made the beer clearer. Irish moss might not hurt.
>
>My question here is, when you talk about spending 30 minutes at each temp,
>does that include time needed to get to the next level? Or would you spend
>30 minutes at 40, then another 30 minutes getting to 60, then 30 minutes
>there, etc etc? Is a slow ramp better than a fast one?
I spent 30 minutes at each rest temperature, and took maybe 20-30
minutes to go from 40-60, and I suppose half that for the 60-70 step,
using propane and recirculation. I couldn't tell you if fast is
better except I wouldn't want to spend too much time in the 50-55C
range as the proteins could be excessively broken down. I've only
actually had that problem once with a weizen, which had poor body and
head retention from too long a rest at 50C.
As I implied, this is clearly unnecessary with modern malts, and I
don't bother anymore. Even with CAPs, I skip the 40C acid rest and
mash in at 63C and hold it there while doing the cereal mash, then
boost to 70C with the cereal mash and additional heat as necessary.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 20:18:40 -0700
From: Dave Larsen <HunahpuMonkey@home.com>
Subject: One-step = Bad for Sanitizing? (was re: oxyclean as sanitizer)
Leo wrote:
> Dave the problem I see...IMHO One-step is not a suitable
sanitizer.
> I tried it several years ago, and produced a string of
infected beers.
> I corrected that by switching to Iodophor.
> Other brewers tell me they do fine with one-step.
However, I remember
> one who claimed that and I tried his beer. It too had an
infection,
> just not a obvious as mine.
I've used One-Step for cleaning and sanitizing now for the
last couple years
without problems, as per my brew shop's recommendation.
However, if
people are having issues with it, I may switch. Back in the
old days, I
used to just use chlorine bleach, but I had a couple of
batches that got
"band-aidy." Have others had problems with One-Step?
Dave Larsen
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:31:49 -0800
From: "JZ" <jamilz@citlink.net>
Subject: Minnesota Pubs, etc.
Looks like Pubcrawler is down yet again. I love Pubcrawler, but it always
seems to drop from the face of the earth when you need it most.
I'm going to be spending the week in Minneapolis and would greatly
appreciate suggestions for brewpubs, etc. I wouldn't mind investigating the
local homebrew shops as well.
I've already spent one week there and visited Rock Bottom and Town Hall. I
stay at the Radisson Metrodome, near the university.
Feel free to email me off list. Thanks in advance.
JZ
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 17:57:10 +0100
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp@pivo.w.se>
Subject: hop utilisation and chilling
Mark in Kalamazoo, with a suspiciously Scandinavian sounding site, and
surreptitiously seeking 'spearmints (that's an alliterative "7", and I
haven't had my first beer yet!) writes regarding hop volatiles:
> Another aspect of technique that I've often pondered is the use of
> immersion v. counterflow chillers, and how they affect hop volatiles and
> utilization. This may be what Ray was getting at. At what temp does the
> utilization clock stop ticking?
>
> I'm toying with using dual chillers in my system - an immersion unit in the
> kettle, then through a CFC unit to maintain flavor and aroma, yet getting
> good cold break and fast/deep chilling.
>
There is actually no real clock stopping temp on this, as anybody who
has dry hopped a lager in storage can testify....you'll get aroma even
at 0C.... you just have to expose them longer.
But as mentioned, keeping hot AND open is a sure way to disperse them.
The "open" part is not an insignificant part of the equation... as case
in point I make an "alcohol free" beer at Christmas, which is simply a
finished beer that I then bring back up to a boil. After it has
simmered a bit, I dump it straight back into a keg and pressurize it,
and let it cool "au natural", and it retains a surprising hop aroma
despite the abuse.... and I feel pretty sure that "getting it right back
under pressure" is the flavour-saver.
Along these lines, a "hop back" is an effective little toy for this very
reason, methinks.... The wort is exposed to the hops at high
temperatures, but there's nowhere for them to disappear to (closed
system).
On the heat part, I think you'll find much better hop aroma with your
planned double cooler system, simply because it cools so much faster and
that is one of the key elements.
The BIGGEST saving there, is not simply that you have two different
cooling systems, but the fact that the counterflow lets you keep the
wort MOVING past the immersion cooler, improves its efficiency by a HUGE
amount (you get "convective" cooling, instead of just "conductive"
cooling for absolutely free!).... this in turn allows the dissolved
volatiles to stay just that, and not do the trick of their namesake....
namely flying up into the air.
Dr. Pivo
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 09:18:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Roy Roberts <psilosome@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Minimal Allgrain Setup?
> Has/Does anyone use the same vessel for mashing/boiling? Any
> thoughts as to the ease of this?
I use an 8-gallon aluminum kettle this way and it works great - it's
easy to do several temperature rests on the stove. After mashing I
scoop the mash (this is a bit of a pain) into a plastic bucket fitted
with a false bottom. I use another bucket to hold hot sparge water.
It's pretty simple and the buckets nest together for storage. Before
I got the big kettle I did this with two five gallon pots, mashing in
one and using both to boil, which also worked OK although the mashes
had to be quite thick with more than about 10 pounds of grain. Also I
think I lost more wort trying to siphon away from the break material
in two kettles instead of one.
Roy Roberts
NYC Upper Yeast Side
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 10:20:56 -0800
From: Patrick Twohy <patrick@twohy.net>
Subject: hop aroma
Greetings beerfolk,
I'm a newby here, so forgive any faux pas.
Spencer Thomas wrote:
> Different chillers will take different amounts of
> time to chill the wort. This will affect the amount of hop aroma that
> remains in the beer.
In what ways do chill time or method affect hop aroma? Faster chill means
less aroma? Would that mean that dry hopping adds no little or no aroma?
- --
Patrick Twohy
Brewing in Burlingame, CA
(1784, 274) Rennerian, apparent
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 15:28:57 -0500
From: "Andrew Moore" <abmjunk@hotmail.com>
Subject: One Step Sanitizer (?)
Leo responds to Dave's questions about oxylean and One Step:
>Dave the problem I see...IMHO One-step is not a suitable sanitizer.
>I tried it several years ago, and produced a string of infected beers.
>I corrected that by switching to Iodophor.
He goes on to suggest that an inexperienced brewer might brew with One Step
as a sanitizer and not realize that the beers were mildly infected (Leo
relates a anecdote to that effect). I (an inexperieced brewer)found some
humor in the possibility that I have been brewing for a year and developing
a sense of the effects of various ingredients on recipes and not knowing
that, all the while, I have a constant, underlying infection. Maybe I just
like the infected taste!
I *thought* that One Step was working well as a sanitizer, but I would
really like to hear some other opinions on its effectiveness.
Andrew Moore
Richmond, Virginia
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:26:06 -0500
From: "Henry Van Gemert" <hvangeme@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Subject: Partial boils in microwave?
I've been involved in a project to make a single gallon of beer and was
thinking how easy this would be to do if I only was boiling a quart of water
with extract/hops, then adding water to top the wort out to a gallon. I
could even use a large measuring cup in a microwave or such.
Is there a special reason for bringing wort to a boil, besides the hop
extraction, or will there be other, more sinister, effects of using
microwaves to do this (I'm just tired of being exiled to the garage during
boils because of the smell, then spending hours outdoors in cold weather)?
Henry in Portage, MI
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 15:49:38 -0600
From: Erik Nelson <heimbrauer@mn.astound.net>
Subject: Beer Filtering
I would like to know from brewers with experience with filtering beer with
sediment filters. I am wondering if it is really worth it? The only worry
I would have if I would filter beer is that it would lose body and the
aromatics and flavor. I am thinking if I would, it would be nice for dry
hopping, by just putting hops into the carboy without a mesh bag.
Brewers who have filtered, Please let me know your opinion.
You can email me directly at heimbrauer@astound.net
Thanks
Erik Nelson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 18:19:28 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat@optonline.net>
Subject: New Orleans brew scene
SimondsVachow said:
>O'Flaherty's (on Bienville near Decatur) is a respectable
>Irish pub
O'Flaherty's is more than just respectable, but it's at 514 Toulouse
St., just off Decatur toward Chartres. They have 3 separate pubs, one
relaxed, one more "concert" type and a new one you'll have to find out
about yourself.
(I'm Irish by marriage. :) )
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9]
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 20:19:20 -0600
From: "Mike Brennan" <brewdude@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Brewing Techniques
Just a quick comment. I was also one who lost 1.5 years worth of
subscription. My main concern is not the loss of the money but rather the
loss of the best homebrewing periodical out there. I really miss it. I
enjoy reading BYO but the depth is not there and there seems to be a
considerable number of errors in every issue. I also like Zymurgy but I
think it has lost a bit of its appeal to all grain brewers with the newer
focus on extract brewing articles. I understand the economics of why
Zymurgy has simplified its focus, so no need for any comments to that
effect. Can anyone lead me to a "Brewing Techniques like" magazine
available today that would fill the void?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:32:57 -0600
From: "Tray Bourgoyne" <tray@netdoor.com>
Subject: Ready to bottle first brew need advice.
Need some advice.
I am ready to bottle my first batch of homebrew. I have the bottles, (brand
new bottles) soaking in Sodium Percarbonate right now. Will that be good
enough to sanitize the bottles? I also have my bottleing buck soaking in
some of the same sanitizer.
Is this enough to sanitize everything?
Hints, suggestions, advice welcomed!
Thanks,
Tray
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 15:10:48 -0500
From: Mitchell Surface <msurface@myvine.com>
Subject: Ireland trip
I'm going to be traveling to Ireland during early March and was hoping
to tap the wisdom of the collective as to "don't miss" sights. We'll be
mainly in Dublin with a day trip to Waterford thrown in. This will be
our second trip to Dublin so I have a vague familiarity with where
things are. We've already been to the Guinness Hop Store and I know
about the Porterhouse. Any other suggestions?
Thanks!
- --
Mitchell Surface N9OSL
Fort Wayne, IN USA
A true libertarian supports free enterprise, opposes big business;
supports local self-government, opposes the nation-state; supports the
National Rifle Association, opposes the Pentagon.
-- Edward Abbey
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3850, 01/28/02
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