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HOMEBREW Digest #3836
HOMEBREW Digest #3836 Fri 11 January 2002
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
Servomyces ("Rob Moline")
Subject: brewing with steam? ("Larry Cooney")
Re: "Ein Hauch von Rauch" ("Thomas D. Hamann")
Re: Real cereal adjuncts!!! (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
hop tea (Randy Ricchi)
Benefits of an AHA Membership? ("David Craft")
Re: poisonous wort? ("Chad Gould")
RE: Force Carbonation Question ("Doug Hurst")
RE: AHA membership price ("KKrist")
Who is this guy? (Pat Babcock)
re: samiclaus on draft & cold steeping... ("Ralph Davis")
RE: Force Carbonation & Keg Cooling ("Doug Hurst")
RE: carbonation calculator (Brian Lundeen)
poisonous wort? (Richard Foote)
Re: Force Carbonation and Keg Cooling ("Dennis Collins")
My stability experiment ("Houseman, David L")
re: Force Carbonation Question (John Schnupp)
re: Force Carbonation and Keg Cooling (John Schnupp)
Re: Ringwood Yeast ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
Wort Stability Test & CF chillers (Dean Fikar)
Re: What the heck is sour mash? (Jeff Renner)
re: Measuring Boil Off Rate + blades for mash mixer ("C.D. Pritchard")
Yeast Harvesting (Markzak11)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 23:37:24 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump@home.com>
Subject: Servomyces
Drew,
Sorry not to get back to you sooner on this, but I have been trying to
get all my files on a succession of new computers, and being a complete
screw-up where these matters are concerned, I didn't pull down any e-mail
for the last few weeks.
I have used Servo in a 7 bbl system @ Court Avenue, and appreciate it's
speed. But let's get into your questions....
>From: "Kraus,Drew" <drew.kraus@gartner.com>
>Subject: Servomyces Questions
>Okay, so always wanting to try something new in my brewing, I managed to
get
>my hands on a packet of Servomyces (check out:
>http://www.whi>telabs.com/brewery_servomyces.htm - nayyy). I'm wondering
how
>to use the stuff in a 10 gallon batch. The packet contains 10 grams of
>dried Servomyces, enough to energize the yeast for about 10 barrels of beer
>(roughl>/3
>gram per 10 gallon batch. Anyone out there used dried Servomyces in home
>brewing? How much did you use? How do you store the remainder? How long
>can I expect it to remain viable when stored correctly?
>Lacking a sufficiently accurate scale, my thought is to add one small pinch
>of the servomyces in the last 10 minutes of the boil and simply store the
>remainder in a ziplock bag in the freezer until the next use. Any tips or
>experiences to share would be greatly appreciated.
I haven't used Servo in home brewing, but have passed samples out to
homebrewers to try, and they did as you suggest, adding a pinch, and storing
the folded packet in a ziplock in the freezer. I add my Servo @ CABCO during
the last 15/60 of the boil, but 10/60 should be fine. It is important to add
the Servo to the boil, and not your yeast slurry, for fear of contamination
by any yeast that are not dead.
I know that some Servo manufactured for certain European markets is
viable yeast, and is capable of fermentation, but the Servo for the US
market are dead cells and are designed for boil additions.
>Since I didn't get any responses to my question on using Servomyces in home
>brewing (posted 12/22/01) I thought I'd run my own experiment splitting a
>10-gal batch of IPA into two 5-gal. batches, with Servomyces in one and not
>the other. I'll post my procedures and observations, of course.
>I'm wondering how best to handle the yeast. I plan to use Whitelabs
>American Ale (WLP001). Should I get 2 vials and use them separately? I'm
>concerned that there could be differences from vial to vial
>(shipping/storage & the like) that could taint my results. I'm not sure
how
>big an issue this might be, and am hoping that if I get two vials with the
>same production dates this will be enough to imply consistent handling. My
>other thought would be to mix the contents of the two vials then pour half
>into one batch and half in the other. Of course I'd be going by eye, which
>could mean slightly different pitch rates for the two batches. Any
thoughts
>on best negate or at least mitigate the yeast differences?
>Attributes I plan to look for include:
>* Lag time
>* Total fermentation time
>* Final product flavor differences
>* Final product clarity differences
>Anything else you'd like to see a layman/apprentice judge report back on?
>I'll be brewing this Sunday, so please send responses directly to my e-mail
.address (drew.kraus@gartner.com) as I may not get posted responses in time.
>Sorry that I didn't think to post this earlier. Thanks in advance for any
>help on such short notice!
Presumably you have already started your experiment, but to my eye your
plan looks like a good one. I think your approach to mixing two vials would
seem to answer any hesitancy you have with inoculation rates, but knowing
the reputation of the yeast supplier, I would feel comfortable using 2 vials
with the same production dates.
Lag time is sort of any 'iffy' concept...but I guess you are going to
look for CO2 bubble evolution? The other determinations you are trying to
establish are consistent with some informal product trials done in a few
brewpubs in the Midwest many moons ago, and responses ranged from noticing
little difference in speed of fermentation in one instance, to the more
often reported result of cutting a day or 2 off of fermentation time. (Most
of these trails were done with ales.)
OTOH, the most interesting response regarding flavor changes was a
dramatic reduction in sulfury odors/flavors in a lager fermentation. I am
told that these reductions are negated, and sulfury notes increase with a
concurrent usage of Servo with Fermaid, or similar yeast nutrient.
Personally, I don't notice a huge shift in my flavor profile, but then
I haven't used it in a side by side analysis. I use it for speed of
fermentation, and to make happy yeast for successive re-pitches, where I
don't use it on subsequent batches, but still get rapid ferms. (I only
repitch 3 times, max.)
I don't know of any plans to introduce this product into the
homebrewing market, though I have recommended it.
If you have any more questions or just want to chat about your
experiment, feel free to send me an e-mail with your phone numbers, and I
will give you a call.
Cheers!
Rob Moline
Lallemand
Court Avenue Brewing Company
515-282-2739
jethrogump@home.com
"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 02:48:16 -0500
From: "Larry Cooney" <lyvewire1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Subject: brewing with steam?
Joe Gibbens asks:
I'm looking
for superheater design info.
Maybe this will help?
http://brewery.org/brewery/library/SteInjCS1295.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:53:20 +1030
From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann@senet.com.au>
Subject: Re: "Ein Hauch von Rauch"
At 03:42 9/01/02, Ray Daniels wrote:
>The simple answer is one pound. This is what we use in the five gallon
>recipe for "Ein Hauch von Rauch," a pilsener-style beer with "a hint of
>smoke." Works out to about 11 percent of the grist for those who look at
>things that way
Hi ray, could you pass on the rcipe for this beer please, at the moment
have Weyermann Pils, 2 Munichs, Carared, Carafa Spec 3 and Rauch.
Many thanks in advance,
Thomas.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:17:30 -0500
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
Subject: Re: Real cereal adjuncts!!!
Chris Carson in digest #3830 writes:
>Every so often, I buy a box of Post Grape-Nuts cereal for my breakfast meal
>(or for late-night snacking).
>Last night, I was reading the side of the cereal box and I read the
>ingredient list:
> malted barley flour
> wheat flour
> salt
> yeast
>Does ANYONE think that you could add this to a brew as an adjunct??
The current issue of Zymurgy has an article by Dana Johnson on page 64
that answers that exact question. Seems that Dana is a regular user of
Grape Nuts in beer and says that it acts as a yeast nutrient because of
all the vitamins and minerals added to the cereal, especially the zinc
oxide. Dana also talks about other "strange" things to use in beer such
as Jagermeister, corn syrup and Celestial Seasoning Teas.
Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, MI
(2.8, 103.6) Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:21:26 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi@ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: hop tea
Drew Avis wrote:
"My only concern w/ this technique would be wort oxidation - Randy, have
you noticed
any problems in this regard?"
I haven't, and that is a concern I meant to address in my original post
but forgot. Since you are working with hot wort/beer, you want to be
careful not to splash or otherwise aerate the beer. Careful squeezing of
the hop bag is the order of the day.
I use this technique, with different timing, when I am brewing a lager
(say a Pils) where I want good hop flavor and aroma, but not as intense
as in an IPA.
I use an immersion chiller, and have found that even very late kettle
additions don't carry thru in the aroma the way I would like them to,
probably because of the relatively long time the wort is still hot after
the boil has ended. Brewers using counterflow chillers probably don't
have this problem.
What I do is, at the end of the boil, I collect about a quart of the
wort in a stainless sauce pan, cover it, and set it aside. I then
proceed to chill the rest of the wort (usually 10 gals or so, so it
takes awhile). When the wort is down to around 100F or so, I put the
saucepan with the quart I collected earlier on the stove and bring it
up to a simmer. I put in my straining bag with about a half ounce of my
aroma hops in the pan and steep for a couple of minutes, carefully
squeezing with two spoons as described in my previous post.
I then dump the tea, bag and all, into the main batch, which is still
being chilled by the immersion chiller. I leave the bag in there until I
am done chilling the wort down to around the mid-50'sF. I then pull the
bag, let the cold break settle, and rack off to fermentors, aerate, etc.
I find that I get a very nice, but not overwhelming hop flavor and aroma
suitable for lagers this way.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:27:41 -0500
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft@craftinsurance.com>
Subject: Benefits of an AHA Membership?
Now that is a good question!
But to me why even ask it. We are the American Association of Homebrewers,
enough said. This organization has provided the impetus and means for what
we love doing, making beer.
No AHA, and you probably wouldn't see
This Digest.
A wonderfully run NATIONAL contest. Homebrewer of the Year, wow I get
excited thinking about what energy and skill goes in to that!
Most of the Homebrew stores and suppliers.
40 different yeast varieties for sale, 30 different specialty grains on
every corner, 25 varieties of hops...........all available close by or next
day mail.
Almost a hundred vibrant clubs, websites, and discussion groups.
Yes, I believe the AHA made all of this happen to the degree it did.
Without the AHA we'd still be dumping and stirring and adding bakers yeast.
The AHA was the critical mass that allowed homebrewing to reach the level it
has.
Membership is a steal $33. I'd pay more and probably should! What do I get
out of it directly, a great magazine and a contest. What I don't see but
enjoy is the energy and advocacy that the AHA has built and injected into
our hobby!
Homebrewers are a thrifty bunch (to a fault sometimes, but that is another
topic). Look beyond the obvious and you'll see the benefits of being a
member of the American Hombrewers Association. If you're still not sure,
look up "association" in the dictionary..............
Regards,
David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC
Apparent Rennarian
478.4,152........I Think!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:54:13 -0500
From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: poisonous wort?
> I also think that the notion that fermented beer is 100% safe is wishful
> thinking too. There are bacterial metabolic pathways that can lead to
> acetone possible at beer pH. Acetone is modestly carcinogenic. [Some
> pyrrolysis products in roasted and smoked malts and products of lipid
> oxidation in stale grain are believed to be carcinogenic too, but that's
> another story].
In enough quantity to be carcinogenic? I would think that if acetone
production occured, the quantity would not be sufficient enough to be of
concern.
Acetaldehyde is also a possible carcinogen (unconfirmed in humans last I
heard); yet any cancer risk for alcoholic beverages only appears if you
consume a huge amount, from what I've read in the past (e.g. 50+ units a
week).
> Fungal toxins are another issue unaddressed. Fungi
> typically require O2, and are slow growing but I doubt the possibility of
a
> beer infection can be entirely ruled out.
I don't think it can either. My gut feeling is that the risk is quite small
though.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:07:32 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH@theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: Force Carbonation Question
There is a chart and formula for force carbonation at The Brewery web
site:
http://brewery.org/brewery/library/CO2charts.html
It includes the formula, which is rather long and occluded. I ran the
numbers through the formula and it works, so you could put it into a
spreadsheet instead of using the chart. I generally use the calculator
included in Promash.
Hope this helps,
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Rennerian (apparent)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:11:37 -0500
From: "KKrist" <KKrist@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: AHA membership price
I'm an authorized seller of AHA memberships. I offer 15% off the regular AHA
prices for new memberships or renewals.
Please see my website at http://www.erols.com/kkrist
I'm only trying to be helpful with this post. Please don't consider it SPAM.
- -- Kraig
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:09:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock@hbd.org>
Subject: Who is this guy?
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
I received the 365 Bottles of Beer calendar. It's rather
entertaining, particular the prose describing the beers. So, who
is Bob Klein? Anybody have any comments?
- --
-
God bless America!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:12:51 -0500
From: "Ralph Davis" <rdavis77@erols.com>
Subject: re: samiclaus on draft & cold steeping...
>From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62@hotmail.com>
>Subject: samiclaus on draft
>Hi all, Last night I discovered that Samiclaus is available on draft. It's
>great and quite unlike the bottles I've had. Almost no chocolate
>overtones.
>Anyway It's at BW3s in downtown Indianapolis. They also have Old >Rasputin
on
>tap but I'd rather lick an ashtray.(:^ppp;;;;
>Joe
Hey Joe, we've got Samiclaus on tap in Northern Va. too, at Tuskies in
Leesburg. It's delicious! The place also has several other rare beers...
How can you not like Old Rasputin?
COLD STEEPING
I just tried cold steeping with the specialty grains on a batch of
Schwartzbier. I soaked 2X the called for amount of cara-munich and black
patent grain for 16 hours in distilled water at room temperature. The
resulting extracts were added to the boil. The wort tastes quite strong,
but not husky bitter! I'll let y'all know how it turns out....
Ralph W. Davis
Leesburg, Virginia
[395.2, 121.8] Apparent Rennerian
"Beer is living proof that God loves us
and wants us to be happy." -Benjamin Franklin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:03:01 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH@theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: Force Carbonation & Keg Cooling
Brandon asks:
"Now, I've read somewhere that it is still possible
to force carbonate beer at room temperature, but that the pressure
in the keg has to be higher than at lower temperatures, correct?"
"[...]are there any ideas out there on how to keep the beer
in the keg a little cooler without incurring the expense of buying
a spare fridge or freezer."
- -----
You can force carbonate your keg at room temperature. Just pump your
keg up to about 30psi and let it sit a couple of days. Check it twice a
day and re-pressurize as needed. To serve, you will have to reduce the
head pressure to about 4psi (depending upon your tapping/beer line
configuration) then repressurize after the serving session in order to
maintain the carbonation.
There are a couple of ways to cool it. You could fill a couple of
growlers from the tap and cool them in the refrigerator or buy/build a
"jockey box" to run the beer line through. I have used an old plastic
primary bucket as a chiller by placing the keg in the bucket and filling
the space with ice. Of course, that's a temporary solution, which works
best if you only need to cool it for an evening. If you keep your keg
somewhere that's a little cooler than room temperature, e.g. the
basement, drink it as-is and call it a Cask Conditioned Real Ale. In
that case you wouldn't even need to carbonate it as much.
Hope this helps,
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Rennerian (apparent)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:23:15 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen@rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: carbonation calculator
Dan Wenger writes:
> How do other keggers out there calculate CO2 pressure when force
> carbonating their brews?
I'm surprised Pat didn't leap in on this already (perhaps that vertical
tasting of barleywines has left him staring bleary-eyed at his keyboard,
perhaps he's just busy planning a Survivor finale party, whatever), but you
need look no further than the HBD Recipator page at (not surprisingly)
http://hbd.org/recipator/
There is an online carbonation calculator, and there is a link to some
widgets to download and run from your system. Frame that chart and hang it
up in the living room, Dan, you'll never need it again.
Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg
PS I really must take a GPS reading on my house so I can fine tune my
coordinates. Anyone out there looking to target me with a missile would
simply blow up our airport if they used these numbers.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:00:39 -0500
From: Richard Foote <rfoote@mindspring.com>
Subject: poisonous wort?
Collective,
All this talk about poisonous wort is timely. I'll take another tack though.
Earlier this week our HB club had a meeting at a local brewing
establishment, which shall remain nameless. I was informed by one of our
members, who incidently has been hanging out and helping the brewer, that
they have been using a pressure treated deck board to stir the mash.
Whatever they used before apparently broke recently. I'd also note that
our member is a carpenter by training. I trust he knows what he's talking
about.
I learned of this midway through my second pint. Am I going to die? Are
partrons going to die? Are we all going to die? Common sense tells me,
this is not good. There are all sorts of cautions in dealing with PT
lumber like wearing dust masks when cutting and wearing gloves or at least
washing your hands after handling the stuff. Isn't chromated copper
arsenate used? It's a 15 bbl system so maybe dilution is the solution.
Oh, I just know I'm going to die! The lights are getting dim. Saint
Peter, is that you? Boy, kinda hot here. A/C down? Slipping... Not much
longer... Can't hold on m....
Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewing and Wort Preserving
Murrayville, GA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:08:29 -0500
From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins@drain-all.com>
Subject: Re: Force Carbonation and Keg Cooling
Brandon asks:
"...but in the mean time, is there a way that I can keep my keg cool so I
can at least try this kegging thing out before I drop a couple of hundred
dollars on a refridgeration unit?"
Brandon, stop thinking retail. A refrigerator will cost $200 only if you go
to an appliance store. Comb the classified ads, I'll bet you can find one
for less than $50 that will work fine. I got mine for $40 and all I had to
do was haul it home and plug it in. And by the way, depending on how much
you brew, your new refrigerator will probably be so full of kegs that there
won't be room for a fermenter.
Also, a word on temperature controllers. If you have a keg only fridge, I
don't think a temp controller would be necessary. Plus, it disables the
freezer compartment, so there goes your place to store chilled glasses.
If you are really interested in controlling fermentation temperature, I
strongly recommend the following site that describes the design of a
fermentation chiller: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/chiller/chiller.html
This little device ROCKS! You can ferment ales or lagers easily within a
very tight temp range using frozen jugs of ice. Plus, you can freeze the
ice jugs in the freezer compartment of your $50 refrigerator (another reason
not to buy the temp controller). If you go this route, then you can keep
your beer at serving temperature and your wort separate at a different
temperature using the fermentation chiller.
So if it's only a question of money, look through the classifieds and find a
deal on a used fridge. You won't be sorry.
Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN
[3554 furlongs, 3.18 Radians] Apparent Rennerian
"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but not in practice."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:18:33 -0600
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman@unisys.com>
Subject: My stability experiment
I'm afraid I was a little misleading in my description of my experiment as
posted in yesterday's HBD. I was NOT testing the stability of my wort, but
rather I WAS testing the stability of my sanitation of bottles. Of course
one bottle was not only rinsed with tap water but 1/2 filled with tap water
to determine the degree to which my water might cause an infection. BTW,
recent sampled testing by the local health department showed NO infectious
agents in my tap water...but I did want to be sure by using the same test
methodology that was used to see if the bottles I had sanitized and saved
remained sanitary. Thanks to all those who have responded.
Dave Houseman
SE PA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:29:46 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Force Carbonation Question
From: D/A Wenger <dkw@execpc.com>
>I have an old Zymurgy issue with a chart plotting desired volumes of CO2
>versus temp of the beer, and somewhere in the article it talks about how
>many volumes of CO2 you want by beer style. Though I appreciate the info
>from Zymurgy, I find it a huge PITA to figure this out every time I want
>to keg a batch.
Not exactly sure what you mean by PITA. I think it is pretty darn easy
to look up the pressure in the chart. Just pick your desired
carbonation level and the temperature. Where they intersect is the
correct pressure.
IMO, it would be much more of a pain in the ass if I had to turn on
my computer, wait for it to boot, fire up Excel and then enter the
temperature and desired carbonation. Oh sure, the computer will
fire the answer out lickety-split, but looking at a chart taped to the
fridge only takes about 2 seconds.
>How do others do it? Is there a formula available that I can put into an
>excel spreadsheet?
You could always enter the data in the chart into a lookup table
in Excel. The you could have Excel do in a few milliseconds what it
would take you to do in about 2 seconds. I'm not flaming you Dan,
but sometimes I think we (humans) are becoming to damn dependent on
technology for our own good.
=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:32:40 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Force Carbonation and Keg Cooling
From: "Grady, Brandon" <Brandon.Grady@McHugh.com>
>Now, I've read somewhere that it is still possible
>to force carbonate beer at room temperature, but that the pressure
>in the keg has to be higher than at lower temperatures, correct?
Yes. So of the charts do go to higher (70F-ish) temps. I have
ProMash and there is a handy-dandy carbonation calculator utility.
Assuming that room temperature is 70F, the following carbonation
level (volumes O2) v. pressure is:
1 = 5psi (obviously the charts are much larger and have more detail)
2 = 20psi
3 = 37psi
4 = 45psi
As can be seen, there is not a liner relationship. I typically use
2-3 vCO2. Some styles require more, some less. I'm not huge into
brewing to style so I make what I like. I find the around 2.5 gives
me the qualities of carbonation I am looking for.
>but in the mean time, is there a way that I can keep my
>keg cool so I can at least try this kegging thing out before I
>drop a couple of hundred dollars on a refridgeration unit?
Yes. You could run the beer thru a chill plate or other such
device. You could put the keg in an ice bath. I used to use my
10 gallon round cooler for this. It worked good. The problem is
that ice needs to be continually refreshed if you want to keep the
keg cold all the time. You could build an insulated box that
uses water in jugs or soda bottles and keep cycling the bottles
thru the freezer.
I see that you are from WI. At this time of year you could build
a heater and take advantage of the fact that it is usually cold
outside. I've done this before for fermenting lagers. A heat
source (I used a 50w light bulb) is needed to warm the box when
the temp drops too low. You need a controller that operates in the
heat, not cool, mode. Some controllers do both.
=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:42:48 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke@merck.com>
Subject: Re: Ringwood Yeast
Drew Avis asked about Ringwood yeast:
>I recently ordered the Ringwood yeast (Wyeast 1187) with the idea that it
>may give me the touch of diacetyl I need in the ever elusive Sam Smith
Taddy
>Porter clone. I did a search on the HBD but didn't find too many posts
>about this yeast in the homebrewery - anyone use yeast & have tips on
>managing it so that I don't end up w/ too much diacetyl?
I have used this yeast 3 times so far with excellent results. Keep your
fermentation temp below 70F and you should fare well. I kept mine between
65-68F. A diacetyl rest is also reccomended for this strain. Drop the temp
to 60F for a day or two just before fermentation is over. I do this by
racking to a seconday as soon as the head crashes and cool with blue ice
packs in a styrofoam box or use a cooler room in the basement. I used this
strain for one porter and two browns. The brown recipe got a repeat brewing
since this beer was *FANTASTIC* after 3 mos. in the bottle. But at that
point I only had a six pack left <sniff>. Sounds like time to brew it
again!
Here's the recipe if you're interested. Looks like you standard "pinch o'
everything" brown ale recipe. Maybe so, but it makes for a complex malty
brew. It must be the yeast in combo with the aromatic and biscuit malts
that do it for me. You could probably cut down on the hops a little and
that would eliminate the 3 month bottle conditioning time, but I prefer to
be patient 'cause I know what's coming. Scaled-down Promash printout
follows:
Batch Size (GAL): 8.50
Total Grain (LBS): 17.50
Anticipated OG: 1.058
Anticipated SRM: 17.7
Anticipated IBU: 47.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73%
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name SRM
- ------------------------------------------------
74.3 13.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) 2
2.9 0.50 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 2
2.9 0.50 lbs. Crystal 60L 60
2.9 0.50 lbs. Chocolate Malt 350
2.9 0.50 lbs. Special B Malt 220
2.9 0.50 lbs. Biscuit Malt 24
2.9 0.50 lbs. Aromatic Malt 25
8.6 1.50 lbs. Brown Sugar 20
Hops
Amount Name Alpha IBU Boil Time
- -------------------------------------------------
1.50 oz. Northern Brewer 9.00 31.6 60 min.
1.50 oz. Fuggle 4.75 15.5 60 min.
Glen A. Pannicke
glen@pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts
and those who harbor them." - President G. W. Bush
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:02:39 -0800
From: Dean Fikar <dfikar@swbell.net>
Subject: Wort Stability Test & CF chillers
Steve Alexander's comments in the CF chiller sanitizing thread lit a fire
under me and convinced me to do a wort stability test which I had not done
since I switched from an immersion chiller to a CF chiller some time back.
Steve's comments about needing to use iodophor instead of (or along with)
heat puzzled me a bit since heat *should* be an effective sanitizer at high
temperatures if given a long enough contact time with the equipment. It
just so happened that I had recently installed inline thermometers at both
my mag pump outlet and the CF outlet so I was able to monitor the recirc
temperature quite closely during my last batch.
I originally planned to recirc for just the last 10 minutes of the boil as
long as the temperature stayed above 200F at both temperature monitoring
points. However, while the temperature at the pump outlet was steady at
about 210-212 degrees, the temperature at the chiller outlet never got above
180 to 190 degrees. This probably had something to do with the speed of
recirculation which was rather slow. Maybe this was because there was a
huge mass of hops in the kettle (American Brown Ale) which seemed to
restrict inflow to the pump. Because of this I recirculated for an
additional five minutes at knockout, before chilling.
The wort stability test consisted of diverting the outflow from the chiller
to 2 baby food jars which had been sanitized with Star San and were placed
inverted on a bottle tree to air dry. Air locks with stoppers were quickly
placed in the bottlenecks. These were also sanitized with Star San. The
bottles were held at an average temperature of about 80 degrees for the
test.
The results were rather interesting. One of the two samples showed visible
signs of infection at 60 hours (was OK at 50 hours). The other bottle, as I
write this, looks to just now be developing an infection 102 hours into the
test. I'm not sure why the results are so different for both bottles but I
suspect that it has something to do with air contamination or bottle
sanitation since the wort apparently was clean based on the results from the
second bottle. For what it's worth, I suspect that the infection of the
first sample is from wild yeast, based on the excessively phenolic aroma
from the sample. It is too early to tell about the second sample.
A few observations from the test:
1. The discrepancy between the two samples could be due to the fact that
the bottles were sanitized but not sterilized. Next time I plan to
autoclave the baby food jars rather than just sanitizing them. I would also
suggest obtaining at least two samples as I did for my test. I hope that I
am correct in assuming that the bottle which becomes infected latest is
probably more representative of the condition of the wort for reasons
discussed above.
2. The first sign of infection for both bottles was subtle air lock
activity. This preceded other signs of infection (off aromas, turbidity,
surface activity) by several hours. I would therefore recommend the use of
an air lock rather than covering the mouth of the container with foil or
other barrier.
3. I'm not sure why I should have relatively good results from my wort
stability test while Steve apparently has to use a chemical sanitizer in
addition to heat for acceptable results in his brewery. I definitely plan
to repeat this test a few times more. In fact, it is so simple to do that I
may start doing it with virtually every batch.
Thoughts? Comments?
Dean Fikar
Fort Worth, TX
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:15:37 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: What the heck is sour mash?
This bounced from Clifton's address <xcmoore@gi.alaska.edu> (User
unknown), so I'll send to HBD.
Clifton
This is exactly the kind of thing that might be a good discussion on
Distilled Beverage Digest. Why not subscribe (send the word
"subscribe", without the quotes, to dbd-request@hbd.org.) and repost
it to dbd@hbd.org.
I think there are some people there who could answer it, or at least
think they could. I have some ideas.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:24:07
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp@chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: Measuring Boil Off Rate + blades for mash mixer
A while back folks suggested using a dip stick to help with measuring the
boil-off rate. They are easy to make, but, as Kevin Elsken pointed out,
they are a bit of a PITA to use. There's an alternative that can work
well- a simple sight gauge made of plastic tubing works well for me. It's
more precise than a dip stick since, as Kevin also pointed out, the rolling
surface of a boil interferes with a good dip stick reading as does the foam
during the first of the boil. A sight gauge averages out the effect of the
rolling surface and is basically unaffected by foam. For more precise
volume measurements and hence more precise boil-off rate calculation, the
sight gauge can be inclined rather than oriented vertically as is typical.
==============
Bret Morrow (thanks for the kind words!) asked: 1. "Is a mash mixer worth
making? 2. If so, what should the blade design be?"
As to 1, it depends: I used one with a previous conventional RIMS for
mixing the grain with water at start of mash, freeing up stuck mashes and
to see if how much it'd increase the recirc. flow through the grain bed
when operated during the mash. For the first two purposes, I think it's a
gizmo of value only to those who like gadgeteering- e.g. I spent longer
making the stirrer (but that's a fun part for me) than I'd have ever spent
in a lifetime manually stirring mashes. It did increase the recirc. flow
about 1/4 to 1/2 GPM when it was run during the mash. The downside is that
you have to kill stirrer (and hence most likely reduce the recirc. flow) to
allow the grain bed to set up for sparging.
You want something that will move the grain about a bit but not mangle
them. The blade design I used was pretty easy and cheap to make and to
tweak/adjust to suit a specific system and gearmotor and differing grain
beds. It was basically 3 propellor type blades made of flatten copper
tubing hose-clamped to a shaft made of copper pipe- details at
hbd.org/cdp/rims_inf.htm#RIMSStir. I looked at the design for one on the
web (I think at the defunct BT site...) that was made of a single piece of
stainless steel that was cut and bent into something akin to a piece of
modern sculpture. It was said to work great and looked to me as if it
would but, it didn't meet a couple of criteria I had- ease of fabrication
and, later, modification.
c.d. pritchard cdp@chattanooga.net
http://hbd.org/cdp/ http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:06:54 EST
From: Markzak11@aol.com
Subject: Yeast Harvesting
Interested in any thoughts on yeast harvesting.
1) Better from the primary or secondary?
2) How long can you keep the yeast (under refrigerated conditions) after
harvesting?
3) Also, is yeast washing necessary and if so what is the proper technique.
Looking forward to the usual helpful insight.
Cheers,
Mark Zak
Sandpiper Brewing
Brookline, MA
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3836, 01/11/02
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