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HOMEBREW Digest #3800
HOMEBREW Digest #3800 Thu 29 November 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
RE: Thomas Hardy quote ("Sam Ritchie")
__publication_only__ ("laurence cooney")
Turkey Fryers . . . ("Galloway")
Turkey Frying? ("Donald D. Lake")
RE: DC-area Brew Shop Help (Rob Hanson and Kate Keplinger)
RE: Corn flour for CAP? ("RJ")
Wort heaters (Mark Kempisty)
Re: wort aerating pump ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
Re: Thomas Hardy quote (Jeff Renner)
Re: Malt vinegar (Jeff Renner)
turkey fry ("Joseph Marsh")
Saffron Beer ("Steve Stroud")
Priming with corn sugar or malt extract??? ("Kristen Chester")
casks power serving! ("Robin Griller")
Wort Aeration Pump Size ("John Zeller")
Wort Oxygenation (Dan.Stedman)
Turkey Fryer at Sam's Club (Mark Kempisty)
Stupid Brewer tricks ("May, Jeff")
Priming in Corny Kegs? ("Gregor Zellmann")
rims? smoker ("steve lane")
Brew stores in New Orleans? ("Tray Bourgoyne")
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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:33:48 +0800
From: "Sam Ritchie" <sritchie@e-comm.com.au>
Subject: RE: Thomas Hardy quote
"In the liquor line Loveday laid in an ample barrel of Casterbridge 'strong
beer.' This renowned drink--now almost as much a thing of the past as
Falstaff's favourite beverage--was not only well calculated to win the
hearts of soldiers blown dry and dusty by residence in tents on a hill-top,
but of any wayfarer whatever in that land. It was of the most beautiful
colour that the eye of an artist in beer could desire; full in body, yet
brisk as a volcano; piquant, yet without a twang; luminous as an autumn
sunset; free from streakiness of taste; but, finally, rather heady. The
masses worshipped it, the minor gentry loved it more than wine, and by the
most illustrious county families it was not despised. Anybody brought up for
being drunk and disorderly in the streets of its natal borough, had only to
prove that he was a stranger to the place and its liquor to be honourably
dismissed by the magistrates, as one overtaken in a fault that no man could
guard against who entered the town unawares."
I've often seen the quote attributed to 'The Mayor of Casterbridge', but
it's actually from 'The Trumpet-Major'.
As far as the beer goes, I can't help you there, but did find a report of a
tasting from Malt Advocate
http://www.realbeer.com/maltadvocate/W94/W94HARDY.html which is worth a
read.
Sam
Perth, Western Australia
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 01:09:36 -0500
From: "laurence cooney" <lyvewire1@hotmail.com>
Subject: __publication_only__
"steve lane" writes: Any way, I propose that we start an elite clique of
injured brewers with
varying catagories that would determine status in the club. For instance, a
1st degree burn would have a much lower status than a back injury requiring
surgery from lifting a carboy. Stitches is good, depending upon the count,
but cut tendons or ligaments would rank right up there with the back
surgery. Any feedback on a scoring system would be helpful.
But would all that measure up to the mosquito bites and sunburn we get down
here in Florida?
Larry Cooney
Wesley Chapel, Florida
Sorry I don't know my homebrew zip code.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:07:07 -0500
From: "Galloway" <galloway@gtcom.net>
Subject: Turkey Fryers . . .
Greetings to the Collective,
Dave of Canada asks;
". . .do you mean you dunk a whole turkey in hot oil and deep-fry
it? . . ."
Well Dave, the short answer is "Hell yes!" Here in the south frying, both
large and small scale, is something of an art form, and a cardiologists
dream. I've had just about everything fried since moving here. I was offered
"white meat" once at a dinner. I thought it was poultry or perhaps pork. It
was breaded and fried salted pork back (essentially fired fat).
As far as doing a bird, it's the best turkey you can ever hope to eat. I
brine our birds for two days or so. I mix 1/4 cup of something called Greek
Seasoning and 1/4 cup salt in enough water to cover the turkey (about 2 to 3
gallons). I submerge the still frozen bird in the brine and let it sit.
Two days later, put three gallons of oil (peanut is the most expensive, so I
only use one
gallon to two of vegetable oil) in the pot and bring it to 350 degree. While
the oil is getting ready, pull out the guts place the bird on the rack with
the big cavity down. Here is a critical part; DRAIN THE BIRD WELL BEFORE
SUBMERGING INTO THE BOILING OIL! I didn't the first time. The resulting
eruption was VERY dramatic. It was good to know that this old boy still had
some moves.
Turkey goes in and the timer starts. I have found that a 13 pound bird is
completely finished in 40 to 45 minutes. This works out to about 4 minutes
in the oil per pound of turkey.Drain well, let sit for 10 minutes before
carving. Two 12 to 13 pound birds will use much less a quart of oil to fry.
Adjust your flame to ensure the oil temp stays between 350 and 375 degrees.
If the oil isn't hot enough the turkey will absorb some.
This is without a doubt the juiciest turkey you will ever put in your mouth.
Plus it is NOT greasy. The hot oil sears the bird shut. The hot oil works
from the inside as it floods the cavity and bubbles out of the neck. The
other good reason for frying the bird is that it frees up your oven and here
in Florida, doesn't heat up the whole house.
Regards,
Dave Galloway
Chattahoochee, FL
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:01:51 -0500
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dlake@gdi.net>
Subject: Turkey Frying?
Dave wrote:
>Sorry to ask, but I'm totally unfamiliar with this idea (I'm guessing
most
>of the other Canadians, Aussies and Brits are too)
It's a Cajun thing that has caught on all over, especially in the
south. It is absolutely delicious! Although it sounds weird
(especially to northerners), I have yet to hear of anyone who has tried
it and doesn't think it's the best turkey they have every tasted.
You take a whole fresh turkey, and fry it in a pot of oil heated to
325F. The time of frying is about 3 minutes per pound. Because of the
mess involved, it is a special occasion food item. The hardest part is
setting up and cleaning up. Because of that, I usually offer to fry up
turkeys for other family members and friends at the same time.
Go for it. You'll be a hit in Canada
Don Lake
Orlando, FL
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:20:07 -0500
From: Rob Hanson and Kate Keplinger <katerob@erols.com>
Subject: RE: DC-area Brew Shop Help
...and I've seen an ad in BYO (though I have yet to venture to the
store) for Annapolis Homebrew:
53 West McKinsey Rd.
Saverna Park, MD 2146
www.annapolishomebrew.com
800-279-7556
Mon-Sat. 10-8
NAYYY
And there's the Brew Pot in Bowie, MD (on the way to Annapolis)
and...well, heck, just check out this link from the local club:
http://www.burp.org/resource.htm
It lists all the area ones, with contact information and hours.
And tell whichever one you stop at Thanks! for serving the homebrew
community in DC-MD-VA.
- --Rob Hanson
the Closet Brewery
Cheverly, MD
- -------------
Porter: ...do you look for ale and cakes here,
you rude rascals? --King Henry VIII,V.iv
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:49:30 -0500
From: "RJ" <wortsup@metrocast.net>
Subject: RE: Corn flour for CAP?
"Drew Avis" <andrew_avis@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Greetings CAPers, I'm planning to brew my first CAP in a few weeks. A
couple of questions for those who know this style:
1) I have a large bag of corn flour (for making tortillas). Has anyone
used corn flour instead of grits or flakes to make a CAP before? Is it
as "corny" as polenta? How would you handle flour? I was thinking of
doing a cereal mash with 2 lb flour + 4 lbs pale malt, and adding to the
main mash for a step from 140F to 158(ish) (for a 22 lb mash).
2) Any thoughts on using Saflager-S23 as the yeast for this style?"
Drew,
I've used both...
1) The corn flour needs to be double mashed - else the brew will
not clear.
2) The DCL SafLager S-23 could be used for a CAP, some info
directly from their site, regarding fermentation temps:
S-23
This bottom fermenting yeast is widely used by Western European
commercial breweries. This yeast develops the best of its fruity and
estery lager notes when fermented at low temperatures (9C-15C) yet
producing very good lager and pilsener beers at higher temperatures
(15C-21C). Recommended temperature range: 9C-15C (ideally 12C).
Recommended pitching rate at 12C-15C: 80 to 120 g/hl (equivalent to 8 to
12 millions/ml wort). For a pitching temperature below 12C, increase the
pitching rate accordingly, up to 200 to 300 g/hl at 9C (equivalent to 20
to 30 million viable cells/ml wort).
Ciao,
RJ
43:30:3.298N x 71:39:9.911W
Lakes Region of NH
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:14:09 -0500
From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty@pav.research.panasonic.com>
Subject: Wort heaters
Nils Hedglin asked about keeping wort warm while fermenting during these
chilly months.
I have used a small heating pad tied to the carboy with some twine. On
those really colder days I also took a large U-Haul moving box with the
bottom closed and top open and put it upside down over the carboy to
help contain the heat. Only trick there was making sure the box was
tall enough to clear the airlock sticking out of the carboy.
- --
Take care,
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:14:55 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke@merck.com>
Subject: Re: wort aerating pump
Pat Casey wrote about making a wort aerating pump:
>I want to use an aquarium air pump to aerate worts. The idea is to
>bubble the air through a jar of hydrogen peroxide and then into the
>wort.
I know I'll get beaten up for saying this, but here it goes anyway. If the
purpose of bubbling the air through the hydrogen peroxide is to "sterilize"
the air, then don't bother. You might as well bubble it through my leftover
Thanksgiving turkey soup. For any liquid sanitizing agent to work, it must
come in contact with the contaminant and must be in contact for a certain
period of time. In a bubbler, the air will be bubbling through the solution
too quickly and only a small percentage of airborne particulate matter may
come into contact with the solution. The contact will occur at the
interface of the air bubble and the liquid agent. So compare the surface
area of a sphere to it's volume and then you'll get an idea of what I'm
talking about.
The only way to truly sterilize or significally reduce the bacterial count
of the the air is to filter it through a very tight filter. A 0.3 micron
filter is suggested. This size will remove all particulate matter, fungi
(yeasts included) and bacteria from the air. You could probably even get
away with using a 0.45 micron filter too. At 0.3 microns to 0.22 microns
the filters will only pass some viruses, but then they won't infect your
beer, so who cares. You can find replacement filters for the bottled oxygen
aeration systems at one of the many on-line homebrewing websites. If
properly cared for, it will remain useful for a long time. You may even be
able to find one at the aquarium store you're visiting. Additionally, most
aquarium pumps have a rough filter located on the pump itself. In many
cases it is a cheap felt disk. This is meant to prevent dust and other
large particles from ruining your pump. It must be changed on occasion as
well but with the amount of running time it will get, we're probably talking
many years.
>What sort of pump pressure is needed to achieve this?
I would assume a pump which is rated for double the volume of the beer
should be sufficient. I use a 5 gallon pump on my starters (which are 3L
max). I would also elevate the pump above the beer level to eliminate the
need for a check valve. A check valve will cause a pressure drop (so will a
filter or bubbling bottle).
Glen A. Pannicke
glen@pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts
and those who harbor them." - President G. W. Bush
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:09:18 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Thomas Hardy quote
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t@ix.netcom.com> writes from Gainesville, FL:
>I was wondering if someone could help me out with a quote from one of Thomas
>Hardy's novels? It is a description (of a few sentences or a paragraph) of the
>ale of the Dorset area. Supposedly it was used as part of the target in
>brewing Thomas Hardy Ale. I'd really appreciate it if anyone could send it to
>me.
It's on the label! I Google searched a few key words off the label
of an old bottle I had and got five hits including this from a Malt
Advocate article on Hardy's Ale at
http://www.realbeer.com/maltadvocate/W94/W94DAN.html :
"It (Dorchester Ale) was of the most beautiful colour that the eye of
an artist in beer could desire; full in body, yet brisk as a volcano;
piquant, yet without a twang; luminous as an autumn sunset; free from
streakiness of taste; but, finally rather heady."
Haven't heard any recent news about its fate.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:20:28 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Malt vinegar
"Gene Collins" <gcollins@geotec.net> writes from Broken Arrow, OK (is
that a cool name or what? No, not Collins, Broken Arrow!):
>I sat in the fish place today enjoying my lunch when it struck me that the
>amber liquid on the table was called "malt" vinegar. Is this stuff made from
>malted barley and does anyone know how it's made? Is it really oxidated,
>unhopped beer? I know, just a weird curosity.
That is it, and if you smelled the stuff that came out of my
once-used beer engine when it arrived from England, you'd know for
sure.
Ethanol oxidizes into vinegar (acetic acid) via the Acetobacter, a
microbe that requires oxygen (which is why you shouldn't have a
problem with your beer turning into vinegar if it's away from air).
You can get a culture of "mother of vinegar," which is Acetobacter,
from many homebrew shops. I've only made wine vinegar, well
deliberately, at least, but beer vinegar shouldn't be any different.
Don't think you'd use hops, though, or at least not much. Just add
the "mother" to some beer in a container with lots of air and keep it
warmish (although the inside of my 55F beer freezer is smelling
rather vinegary right now from spills I should clean up). Nature
should take its course.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:18:44 -0500
From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62@hotmail.com>
Subject: turkey fry
Yes we do deep fry turkeys. It started a few years ago and a popular radio
show picked up the idea. Goto Bobandtom.com and you can see the technic. I
haven't been to that site for a long time so I don't know exactly where it's
at but have fun exploring.
Joe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:27:21 -0500
From: "Steve Stroud" <strouds@gis.net>
Subject: Saffron Beer
The most recent edition of All About Beer has a homebrew
article by Randy Mosher.
In it he outlines the brewing procedure for a dozen spiced, herbed, or otherwise
treated homebrews.
IIRC, one of them was a saffron tripel. I believe that he added 1/2 tsp of
threads to the secondary.
Cheers,
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:44:33 -0500
From: "Kristen Chester" <kristen@cambridge.com>
Subject: Priming with corn sugar or malt extract???
Oh, great elders of the beer world, I prostrate myself before
you begging for your guidance.
Should I prime my bottles for carbonation with corn sugar or
malt extract?
We do bottles only -- unfortunately there's no space
for kegs in our little abode. I have been using corn sugar, but when
I recently entered a beer in a club competition, one of the judges
indicated that the corn sugar used for priming had hurt the beer
(but maybe he was mistaken). On the other hand, I've heard that
using malt extract has aesthetic effects, and can impact the flavor
as well. I would hate to be making a mistake at this final stage
of beermaking that would negatively affect the batch, so any
advice/guidance would be well appreciated.
Thank you, oh wise ones!
Kristen
Reston, VA
[6695, 14.7] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:49:51 -0500
From: "Robin Griller" <robin_g@ica.net>
Subject: casks power serving!
Hi all,
Re Dave's question about serving from his Golden Gate cask, I'm not sure
what a golden gate cask is, but when I used my pressure barrel, I found
that I could usually serve the entire cask of beer without using *any*
external gas. This was despite the fact that I would use only 60-70 grams
of priming sugar for 25 litres of beer. I would agree that it likely has
something to do with the airspace in the keg; even with 25l in the barrel,
there was still a large ullage, meaning lots of pressure built up above the
beer, firing the beer out for the majority of the keg and being able to
serve the entire 25l without any additional gas being added. Cornies on the
other hand have a tiny head space.
Robin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:42:41 -0800
From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd@hotmail.com>
Subject: Wort Aeration Pump Size
Pat inquired about aquarium pump sizing. I would suggest the smallest and
cheapest pump available. Spend no more than $5 or $6 and it will do just
fine. Even the smallest pumps put out quite a bit of air. More than enough
to do a good job of aerating. I would also suggest an in-line purification
filter rather than the hydrogen peroxide method. It's cheap and requires no
maintenance. I've had excellent results with this setup.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:42:19 -0600
From: Dan.Stedman@PILLSBURY.COM
Subject: Wort Oxygenation
Pat writes:
>I want to use an aquarium air pump to aerate worts. The idea is to
>bubble the air through a jar of hydrogen peroxide and then into the
>wort. Typical starting gravities are around 1045. What sort of pump
>pressure is needed to achieve this? The biggest pump at the local
>aquarium shop is 9 watts with a pressure of .12kg/sq cm or about 11.75
>kPa. As well, I would welcome any advice about tube diameters and other
>considerations.
First, forget about bubbling the air through the hydrogen peroxide. This does
little to nothing to kill beasties, since it would only be sanitizing at the
bubble walls and even then it is very limited due to the short contact time. It
would be better to get a little air filter that you can attach inline.
Second, I would recommend that you spend the few extra dollars and get an
O2/airstone setup. It will then only take a minute to fully O2 your wort, you
have no chance of introducing beasties as long as you boil your airstone for 15
minutes and sanitize your tubing, and a 1 lb cylinder of O2 lasts well over a
dozen batches. Plus, you won't have to deal with all of the excess foam that you
get from aerating with regular air (due to the additional time that you need to
aerate).
Just my two cents -
Dan in Minnetonka
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:48:04 -0500
From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty@pav.research.panasonic.com>
Subject: Turkey Fryer at Sam's Club
All,
Went to Sam's Club at lunch time and found a 30 qt STAINLESS STEEL
turkey fryer setup for $69.99. Includes tall 30 qt. stainless steel
pot, long stem thermometer, bird stand, handle, boil/fry basket, lid,
two marinades, injector and a 150K (or so) burner with legs. While the
pot is thin walled, it would make a fine hot liqueur tank.
The top of the burner is a flat ring that may not fit the bottom of a
converted keg (which I use) but should handle flat bottomed pots fine.
- --
Take care,
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:53:18 -0800
From: "May, Jeff" <jeff.may@attws.com>
Subject: Stupid Brewer tricks
I'm snowed in this morning in Seattle, WA so I guess I'll confess my latest
Stupid Brewer Trick. We were flying to Florida for Thanksgiving to be with
my folks. I had named my last two batches after my parents (Jane's a Nut
Brown Ale and Uncle Dougie's Octoberfest), and they wanted to try some. So
I CP filled a couple 2L bottles. I sealed he bottles with carbonation caps
and topped off with 12# CO2. A little voice in my head said I should wrap
them in a trash bag just in case they leaked. I packed them in my checked
luggage and off we went. We arrived in FL and picked up our luggage from
the baggage claim carousel. As we were walking to the parking garage my
wife said she smelled beer. Uh oh! I unzipped my bag to find two
completely empty 2L bottles and everything was soaked. So much for the
trash bag. The weird thing was that both bottles were extremely evacuated
(the sides were really sucked in). We joked that my folks would have to
suck my socks if they wanted to sample my brews. So I guess the moral of
the story is don't fly with carbonation caps.
No stitches, no broken toes, just a bunch of laundry.
Jeff May
MayzerBrau Nano Brew
Snohomish, WA
jeff.may@attws.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:11:00 +0100
From: "Gregor Zellmann" <gregor@blinx.de>
Subject: Priming in Corny Kegs?
Fellow brewers,
I finally made it to get all kegging equipment together. Do I have to say
that I am proud? :)
But of course there appear a few questions too. Just as I filled my cornies
2 days ago with 40 liters of Export, I started to wonder how to carbonate
them. I have heard a lot about force carbonation, but as I didn't have kegs,
I somehow forgot. So I searched the internet and HBD archive. There seem to
be two groups of brewers:
One is saying you should prime the beer in the kegs, apply just enough
pressure to get a good seal and let the kegs sit for a couple of weeks. And
they mention to check the pressure from time to time. They promise that you
get nicer (smaller) bubbles and in general better carbonated beer and even
better foam
.
The other group says all this priming is bull (especially the smaller
bubbles story) and do force carbonation. Either by applying a higher
pressure than the desired pressure (depending on temp, time and surface of
the beer) and shaking the kegs for a certain time. I even read that shaking
very cold beer for 5 minutes in a very cold keg while applying the desired
pressure gives you a perfectly carbonated beer. Other people just apply the
desired pressure and leave their kegs for 10 days without shaking and say
this is the way to go.
As I of course wanted to drink my first tapped beer in no time I went for
the 5 minutes shake and had fairly but not really perfectly carbonated beer
after 6 hours. But if I have the time, I would tend to prime the kegs with
DME or Glucose and just wait. The only disatvantage I can see with this
method is that one gets extra sediment in the keg and this worries me a bit.
Does that mean that all the dispensed beer is cloudy because sediment is
getting pushed up through the dip tube? How can I avoid this? I thought
about cutting maybe .5 inch off the dip tube. Would this help?
Gregor Zellmann
Berlin, Germany
[4247.6, 43.4] Apparent Rennerian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:13:32 -0600
From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa@hotmail.com>
Subject: rims? smoker
I just got a new smoker and was reading that some units have a heating
element in the bottom instead of using wood or charcoal and had this
brilliant idea.
Could a guy, who already has a RIMS, use his thermo's and PID controllers to
rig up an electric smoker that would run a heating element to control the
air temp in the smoker much like we do on our RIMS? I have always thought
of the RIMS as controlling a fluid system and I'm thinking I would need to
recirc the air much as I recirc the wort. Would the heating element in a
smoke chamber cause enough convection to get an accurate manipulation of the
temp inside the smoke box?
I would love to put a meal on the smoker at 7:00 am, go to work, and come
home to 10 hours of temp controlled smoked ....whatever.
Maybe somebody out there has done this. I would really like some feedback
on this or other ideas on electric smoking. Private would be fine as this
post is stretching the subject of this forum. But, I promise not to let the
smoker get priority on which unit gets the PID and which get the anolog
thermo.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:08:52 -0600
From: "Tray Bourgoyne" <tray@mm2k.net>
Subject: Brew stores in New Orleans?
Can anyone tell me if there are any good home brew stores in the New
Orleans, LA area?
I will be heading down there fairly soon.
Also looking for good brew pubs.
Thanks,
Tray Bourgoyne
Raymond, MS
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3800, 11/29/01
*************************************
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