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HOMEBREW Digest #3757
HOMEBREW Digest #3757 Wed 10 October 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
Kegging ("Chad W. Kennedy")
two questions (Casey)
Re: Stick-on Labels (gsferg)
Haziness (Len Safhay)
re: jockey box plumbing ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
haziness and hop plugs ("Czerpak, Pete")
Re: Stick-on Labels (Jeff Renner)
Fruit purees ("Kensler, Paul")
Final Gravity (jeff storm)
...water loss during boil (thager)
IOD4 ("Hill, Steve")
re: Lactobacillus (paszkiet)
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Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 21:31:35 -0700
From: "Chad W. Kennedy" <ckennedy@clipper.net>
Subject: Kegging
I'm new to kegging and have a few questions.
My first kegged batch seemed a little flat. I primed 5 gal with 1/2 cup of
dextrose and let it condition for 10 days. I set the regulator at just about
5 lbs to push the beer. I don't have room for an extra fridge so I serve the
beer at 65 deg. F in cold glasses which drops the temp down to about 55 deg-
perfect serving temp if you ask me. I was worried that the beer would foam
since it was so warm but I didn't seem to have that problem.
Do you think I'm loosing dissolved CO2 as the beer chills in the glass, thus
giving me flat beer?
I then used about 28lbs of CO2 to force carbonate the beer. I shook it
vigorously until it quit accepting gas. That's the stage that I'm at now.
So how much psi do I use to serve the beer? Any ideas on keeping the kegs
cool without a new refrigerator? A jockey box would be OK accept that I'd
have to clean it after every use- that's daily for me.
Is it worth keg conditioning or should I just force carbonate?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
CK
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 21:46:53 -0700
From: Casey <acez@mindspring.com>
Subject: two questions
Hey all, I've come up with a few questions.
#1: It is my understanding that in decoction mashing, you take off a bit
of the grains and boil them and add them back to the original mash. What
is the purpose of this? And wouldn't boiling actual grains lead to the
release of tanins? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the procedure.
#2: I just recently got my dad back into making wine and I was trying to
help him out, applying some of the beer making techniques to his wine
process. I suggested shaking his 'wort' (grape juice) before and after
pitching and stiring it to aerate it. But he referred to the
'directions' which made no mention of this. Is aeration necessary for
wine? I would imagine that the wine yeast would need it just as much as
beer yeast.
#3: In wines, how come in france they do the whole smashing grapes with
your toes thing and don't worry about infection like us beer guys do?
Thanks in advance,
Casey
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 07:06:46 -0400
From: gsferg@clary.gwi.net
Subject: Re: Stick-on Labels
David Houseman said:
>For ease of labeling bottles for identification purposes (utilitarian, not
>for looks), self-stick 3/4" round labels (Avery and others, about $3.95/1000
> -- that's many batches) fit just right on the caps of beer bottles.
I like that idea. I'd thought of it already but haven't tried it yet. I've got
a large supply of blank bottle caps and I've been using a magic marker to put
a number on the cap- I'm up 12 since I started keeping records (this is it's a
bit like the old joke about the prison inmates who tell jokes by referring to
a number because they've all heard them so many times..) These stick on labels
would give me a little more room for misc. info like a short name and bottling
date- then I wouldn't have to keep referring to my log book :)
I would like to occassionally put some Real labels on the bottles themselves
and there have been a number of good suggestions here. I'm liking the idea of
whole milk as an adhesive for plain old paper labels. I'll also look around
for some of those "clap on, clap off" self-adhesive labels.
Thanks All,
George- From Whitefield Maine- A small town where the population never
changes: everytime a baby is born, a man leaves town.
- --
George S. Fergusson <gsferg@clary.gwi.net>
Oracle DBA, Programmer, Humorist
PGP Key: http://clary.gwi.net/gsferg/gsferg@clary.asc
- --------------
I am a man, I can change, if I have to, I guess.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:08:09 -0400
From: Len Safhay <cloozoe@optonline.net>
Subject: Haziness
Rod Milligan asks: >How in the world can I clear up the haziness? Are
there any tips or tricks out there?>
Quite a few things you can try, Rod. For starters, in future batches you
might try a more flocculant yeast strain. These settle out better,
leaving a clearer beer. You can get info on the relative flocculance of
strains at the web sites of White Labs, Wyeast, Brewtek, etc.Use irish
moss or whirlfloc during the last 15 minutes of the boil. Make sure you
do a good, vigorous boil. This will result in a good "hot break".
Whirlpool the wort, and try to leave as much of this material in the
kettle as possible. Then, if you have (or someday when you have) the
equipment, cool the wort as rapidly as possible.A counterflow chiller
works best for this. This results, in a "cold break": more gunk
precipitates out.
I've had good luck with Clearfine, added to your bottling bucket at
bottling time. Primarily attaches itself to yeast particles, but seems
to have some effect on suspended proteins as well.
To clear an existing batch, try crash cooling. Bring the whole batch
down to around 40 degrees or less, and leave it there for a week or so.
This will cause the chill haze particles to precipitate out of the beer
and eventual settle out to the point where the won't reenter suspension
in the beer.
You're correct to assume you didn't need a protein rest. In fact, with
fully modified, low protein pale malts (virtually all of them, these
days) a protein rest would result in a beer that was very light in body
and had bad head retention (or head creation, for that matter!)
properties. Good luck!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 08:38:04 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew@compuserve.com>
Subject: re: jockey box plumbing
Brett mentions jockey box troubles, >> we had some foaming
problems dispensing the commercial beers when the unit was
plumbed as above, but the cornie kegs of homebrew worked
marvelously well by comparison<<
What were the respective temperatures of the commercial vs
homebrew kegs? A cold-plate or jockey box is meant for
cooling and serving beer simultaneously. That is how the
high driving pressures don't overcarbonate the beer. If the
beer is cold already then the high pressure overcarbonates
the beer. I don't have my charts handy but I seem to remember
that those pressures 30lb @ 68 degrees give the normal
2.5 volumes of carbonation. The plumbing specs of the jockey
box seem correct. There is some variation from manufacturer
to manufacturer and the internal design of the plate so some
fiddling with the pressure is needed.
Or maybe it's a comment on commercial beer from the homebrew
deities <g>
NPL
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 08:39:17 -0400
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak@siigroup.com>
Subject: haziness and hop plugs
Rod in Illinois asked about his hazy brews. I have a few suggestions - try
american 2-row instead of british 2row or pale if you are using it. British
grains tend to tr throw some haze if served too cool instead of at "cellar
temp".
Also, some questions on your process - do you bottle condition or keg? Do
you ferment primary only or do you use both a primary and secondary? Also,
what yeasts have you experienced this with - some take longer to settle out
even at cooler temps? I have seen even my hefeweizens drops clear after 6
to 8 weeks in the keg in the cold fridge with no disturbing them to yield
clear beer.
Do you circulate your mash until relatively clear? Also, do you possibly
oversparge? How vigorous and how long do you boil as boiling helps with hot
break which should help with haziness?
Additionally, when I dry hop my IPAs, they tend to pick up a bit of a haze
as well. I only use irish moss in the last 10 minutes of a strong boil to
help clarify, nothing more.
Greg asks about hop plugs. I have actually seen an increase at my local HBS
in plubs they are stocking this fall as compared to last fall. They always
have plenty of pellets but plugs seem to be increasing in supply atleast
here in upstate NY.
Pete Czerpak
albany, NY
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 09:54:32 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Stick-on Labels
Dave Houseman wrote from an undisclosed location and Steve Funk wrote
from Stevenson, Washington that they use 3/4" round Avery stick on
labels on their bottle caps.
To take this a step further, AABG member Ed Lustenader has written a
little Excel file to print up to six tiny lines of print on these
round labels. Since the sheets are are something like 4x6 inches,
you have to first print on a sheet of regular paper, then position
the label sheet on top of the printing and tape it in place and run
it through the printer again (unless your printer can handle little
sheets). Not a big deal. Saves trouble writing, lets you put more
information on a cap than you could do easily by hand, and looks
spiffy.
I can send this file to anyone who wants it.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:18:58 -0400
From: "Kensler, Paul" <PKensler@cyberstar.com>
Subject: Fruit purees
Keith asked for opinions on whole fruit vs. fruit purees (like Oregon
brand).
I just made an apricot ale (no flames please - its for my wife!) and I used
the Oregon fruit puree for the first time. Here's my thoughts:
Pros:
It was convenient to just open the can and dump it in the fermenter - no
picking, peeling, blanching, cutting, etc.
It was cheaper than buying apricots at the grocery store; especially once
you eliminate skins and pits and other loss you get more pound of fruit per
dollar with the puree than at the grocery store. With other fruits, it
might still be cheaper at the grocery store.
Cons:
Being a very fine puree, it left an amazing amount of sludge at the bottom
of the fermenter and I had to leave the beer sit for a very long time to get
any reasonable amount of settling. It was two months old and had been
racked several times before I could keg it. Fortunately I anticipated this
and brewed about 6 gallons, so I was still able to fill my 5 gallon keg.
Even so, I regret the loss of that other gallon...
Its more expensive than going to a farmer's market or a U-pick place and
processing the fruit yourself.
I've done several fruit beers in the past using whole fruit and all things
considered, I will probably make the effort to use fresh whole fruit from
the local orchard before I use the puree again. I've had great success
using whole fruit that has been coarsely chopped - the fermentation extracts
all the flavor and aroma and sugars and its easy to rack off the chunky
fruit at the end of fermentation. The puree worked fine, it just left a ton
of sludge which ended up costing me extra time (settling) and work (multiple
rackings). So either way you're in for some extra work, I suppose it just
depends on where and how you want to do it. If I could figure out a way to
retain the finished beer and hold back the solids (some sort of coarse
filter) I'd like the purees a lot better. I've tried coffee filters and
handkerchiefs and they are just too fine - the puree clogs them. I've tried
those nylon bags you use for steeping grains or hops, and they are just too
coarse - all the puree flows right through.
Hope this helps,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD
Approximately [135,400] Rennarian, using the Henning coordinate system
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 08:20:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: jeff storm <stormyjeff@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Final Gravity
Is there a formula for determining final gravity or a
style guideline for final gravity?
I am a newer brewer doing all grain and I use ProMash.
Is there a calculation for final gravity on the
software?
Thanks
Jeff Storm
San Jose CA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 09:12:16 -0700
From: thager@hcsd.k12.ca.us
Subject: ...water loss during boil
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes@FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Troy Hager wrote,
"Another thought is that most brewery kettles are enclosed vessels where
a large portion of the exhaust is condensed on the inside and runs back
into the wort. I wonder if some of what is in this condensation are
beneficial flavors/components that hbers are loosing when we evaporate so
much."
I don't have the book with me now, but SAB's staff manual deals with
maintenance procedures for the condensation traps in their boilers. The
traps are found in the chimney's of the boilers. One of their regular
tests is to spray water in the trap to ensure that it can drain quickly
enough to prevent condensate running back into the wort. The manual
states that this can result in off flavours.
________________________________________________________
Condensation flowing out of a stuck trap back into the kettle was not my
point at all... What I was saying was that in a mostly covered boil (as
brewery kettles are), much of the condensation will collect on the top and
sides of the kettle and drip back into the wort. I was wondering what kind
of effects that might have *other* than on the evaporation rate... i.e.
flavor/chemical contributions - This is in direct contrast to the usual
HBers open boil where very little condensation is returned to the boil. A
minor point, I'll admit but the wheels were spinin'!
Troy
SF Peninsula, CA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:45:13 -0400
From: "Hill, Steve" <Steve.Hill@apfs.com>
Subject: IOD4
Question for the collective.
I was wondering with what is going on with the world today, if I were to
sanitize water with IOD4 and then keg it. How long do you think the shelf
life would be?
Would I be able to drink this water if i boiled it? Would the IOD4
evaporate out from boiling?
And yes, this a serious question, and yes, I have kegs full of beer already.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 19:35:39 GMT
From: paszkiet@xecu.net
Subject: re: Lactobacillus
Andrew asked:
>Subject: Lactobacillus
>But being a bacteria, what does the Lactobacillus feed on? Dormant yeast
>cells? We want to know, so if we decide to rack the beer before pitching
>the Lactobacillus, we don't eliminate it's "food source". If you could
>please give us a little more info on the Bacteria, we'd appreciate it.
The best batch of Berliner Weisse I have made so far was by pitching the L.
delbrueckii first. I then waited a few days (maybe 3-4) tasting each day until
the wort started to get sour. At that point, I pitched in the yeast (American
Ale Wyeast 1056) and let the beer ferment out. This beer had a very pleasant
sourness to it. I even still have a few bottles left, and it continues to
taste very good.
In another attempt, I added yeast and bacteria at the same time. This batch
this (I think it is going on 2-3 years old now), and it is still not sour.
What I figure is that the yeast consumed all of the nutrients before the
bacteria got growing (L. delbrueckii tends to grow very slowly, and it has very
specific nutrient requirements). So, to answer the question above, the
bacteria feast on the same nutrients as do the yeast. It helps to get the
bacteria in there before the yeast, so they have something to eat before the
yeast eat everything.
Hope this helps,
Brian P.
Frederick,
MD
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3757, 10/10/01
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