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HOMEBREW Digest #3719
HOMEBREW Digest #3719 Mon 27 August 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Re: Agave Mead (Svlnroozls)
Hop Imports (Brad McMahon)
Cold room problem (John Wilkinson)
Unnecessary Attack (Len Safhay)
Oat Hulls? (And Kegging Follow-up) ("Bissell, Todd S")
Gypsum and pH ("A.J. deLange")
RE: Big Rims (Tombrau)
Beer In Southern Illinois? (Matt Wehland)
BJCP Exam Schedule ("Dave Sapsis")
Re: Great British Beer Festival (Bill Riel)
Re: Fest with 100-odd real ales . . . (Bill Riel)
Enzyme killer? Or not.... (Bill Tobler)
rye-pils,..beta glucans (leavitdg)
Agave Mead (Denis Bekaert)
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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 01:20:50 EDT
From: Svlnroozls@aol.com
Subject: Re: Agave Mead
.>>
hmmm 5 pounds of honey, 3 pounds of agave nectar, some yeast and
budda bing budda bang... Agave Mead...
Anyone try it??? Thoughts???
Is it good??
-Scott<<
We've had some great success with agave nectar in mead with several members
of the Maltose Falcons. First I heard of anyone doing such a thing, he won
best of show with it in our Mayfaire Competition. That recipe is posted in
the recipe section of www.maltosefalcons.com. Also, large quantities of a
similar beverage were brewed up for the recent AHA conference in L.A. where
it was quite well-recieved. Certainly this can be groovy stuff. Give 'er a
go.
Cullen Davis
Maltose Falcons Home Brewing Society
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:54:37 +0930 (CST)
From: Brad McMahon <brad@rommel.apana.org.au>
Subject: Hop Imports
Phil Yates wrote:
> Steve
>
> I look forward to receiving your hops.
http://www.aqis.gov.au/icon/asp/ex_casecontent.asp?
intNodeId=311212&intCommodityId=669&Types=none&
WhichQuery=Go+to+full+text
(split to fit into 80 columns, please concatenate)
So will AQIS Biosecurity division. It is against the law
to import dried whole hops into Australia.
Condition C5217
Non-Commercial
Dried, unprocessed hops found in products like homebrew kits are
prohibited. If the hops are actually hop extracts or pellets then the
products may be released.
- --
Brad McMahon APANA(SA)
Aldgate, S.Aust.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 06:08:39 -0500
From: John Wilkinson <jandjwilkins@earthlink.net>
Subject: Cold room problem
I have been putting together a brew house using a 14X28 storage
building. One end, about 7 feet, is walled off to form a cold room.
The walls are double with two layers of R13 insulation. The attic has
blown in insulation and the floor has R19 insulation. I used vapor
barrier insulation in the walls and floor and additionally have plastic
sheet under the floor insulation to hold it in and perhaps provide more
vapor barrier. The floor is plywood with heavy commercial tile on it.
The walls are "green rock" gypsum board with bathroom type slick wall
board glued to that. The seams are caulked and the edge against the
floor is caulked. The ceiling is a layer of ceiling tiles stapled to
furring strips with a layer of 1/4 inch plywood on top of that and
another layer of ceiling tiles. The reason for two layers of ceiling
tiles is the weight of the insulation was making the original ceiling
sag. So much from assurances from Lowe's that the ceiling would be
strong enough to support the insulation. The seam between the walls and
the ceiling is not caulked. Anyway, there is no vapor barrier in the
ceiling as my understanding was there should not be. The attic is
vented at each end.
A professional refrigeration unit provides the cooling with the
evaporator unit hanging from the ceiling. These are common in cold
rooms. Anyway, my problem is with humidity. I have been fighting mold
and found the humidity to run from about 85 to 90 percent. I can't
figure out why. I checked the drain pan of the evaporator unit and it
does not have standing water. I put a trap in the drain pipe to prevent
humid air from outside entering. The insulated door seems to seal
tightly judging from closing it against air pressure. This room must be
much more sealed from outside air than a house and the house maintains
50 percent humidity. I can't see why the refrigeration cycles don't
draw the excess humidity out of the air. I have tried temperatures from
70 to 55 F with the same results. Is it too tightly sealed? Not
tightly enough? I am stumped.
John Wilkinson
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 08:32:03 -0400
From: Len Safhay <cloozoe@optonline.net>
Subject: Unnecessary Attack
>Past posters and readers of the HBD would well know I have been more
than >fair and tolerant with some of the lowest of intellect brewers.
Can I sell
>you a wort kit Len?
Cool, Phil. Is it pre-hopped? I've gotten really tired of putting the
damn things in a blender and trying to squeeze them into the bottles.
For some reason it makes some of the beer spill out and when you drink
it, this green stuff gets in your mouth.
Chairs,
Len
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 07:24:11 -0700
From: "Bissell, Todd S" <tbissell@spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Oat Hulls? (And Kegging Follow-up)
Hi all,
1) As I have mentioned in a previous post, I've been lucky enough to pick up
an advanced all-grain setup from a guy that was leaving the hobby. Mash
tun/lauter tank, sparge tank, brew fridge, 7 corny-keg setup, all the hoses
and fittings, carboys, the works.
(http://members.home.net/dbissonette/brewsale.htm)
Amongst this U-Haul full of this stuff, he also passed to me all his misc.
brewing leftovers, most of which I at least recognize (though I doubt I'll
be using the Spruce extract much!) But what are "Brewer's cut Oat Hulls"? I
have 3/4 lb of them, and haven't been able to find any information on their
use in my library of brew books (even Mr. "Relax, Don't Worry, Have a
Homebrew" himself doesn't mention them).
What are Oat Hulls used for? How and when would I need them? Are there any
freshness issues I need to be concerned with? (the guy I bought this U-Haul
worth of stuff hadn't brewed since 1997....) Tks...!
2) To everybody who responded to my nervous and slightly overwhelmed query
regarding first-time kegging -- and the fact that I have ball-locks and
everybody I hang out with use pin-lock -- thanks...!! The idea of merely
changing one or more of my hose fittings to mate with the gang's jockey box
and CO2 is both the simplest and most elegant way of getting started!
Cheers!
Todd S. Bissell
Imperial Beach, CA
Shameless Homebrew Club Plug:
http://geocities.com/fotb1234/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:23:20 +0000
From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Gypsum and pH
For Tony Barnsley:
The obvious flaw in the protonation guy's thinking (besides that it
contradicts what happens in thousands of breweries around the world on a
daily basis) is that the amino ends of proteins have pK's in the 8's and
9's and are thus already protonated at normal brewing liquor and
certainly at mash pH. At the other end, the pK's tend to be around 3 and
hence these ends are likely to gave given up their protons. At mash pH's
some of these will indeed take up protons and this mechanism is in part
responsible for the establishment of mash pH but the effect of proteins
is swamped by the sugar-acids in malts and, where calcium and magnesium
are present, by the phytin reaction.
The phytin reaction is easily demonstrated in the laboratory or the
brewery. Many brewers calculate the amount of acidity released by the
reaction by summing the calcium hardness and half the magnesium hardness
and then dividing by 3.5. Units can be either milliequivalents per liter
or ppm as CaCO3. In either case if the released acidity excedes the
alkalinity of the water the mash pH will be lower than what would be
realized in a distilled water mash and conversely.
For Steve A:
Can't agree that switching to Plato is a dumb idea. If one doesn't
accept the Plato tables as representative of the amount of sugar in a
wort of given SG then he must have some other link between SG and
concentration because of the non-linearity. As wort compositions vary
one would either have to repeat the Komission's work using a "standard"
wort but dumping a little maltose into a dish and leaving out in
August's humidity for a few minutes will make it clear why maltose would
be difficult to use. Thus sucrose was a practical compromise. I think
this is a case where we must appreciate that the function of a standard
is often not to be the ultimate conveyor of truth but to insure that
everyone who subscribes to it is using the same fiction if it be fiction
in fact. Furthermore, while wort and cane sugar solutions are certainly
not the same thing it nevertheless seems to be true, based on my simple
experiments, that sugars, at least follow, the Komission's tables
amazingly closely. I think I've posted the data before but if I try to
make up a 10P solution by putting 5.0000 grams of pure sucrose into 50
grams of solution and actually succeed in getting 5 grams into 50.01030
grams of solution then I've got a 9.9974P solution. If I measure that
solution's SG in P units I read 9.99 i.e. I'm off by 0.0074 P
corresponding to an SG error of about 0.00003. If I do the same with
glucose I come up with an error of -.09P and for fructose +0.09P (isn't
that interesting!). Maltose read 0.04P high and even dextrin gives me an
error of only -.06P. Soluble starch showed an appreciable (I'm saying
the other errors were not appreciable because they are probably within
the margin of my measurement error i.e. this is anecdotal data at this
point) error: 0.29P at a strength of 1.85 P (can't make a starch
solution much stronger than this).
A.J.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:24:47 EDT
From: Tombrau@aol.com
Subject: RE: Big Rims
Hello Brothers of the Wort:
Jens Maudal asks about a 2bbl RIMS system. I too, am contemplating a HERMS
system on the 4bbl system I work on. My thoughts are to incorporate a 1/2"
copper immersion coil placed in the Hot Liquor tank into my Vorlaff routine.
It seems fairly simple, but temperature control for these systems is foreign
to me. I welcome input for this venture.
What category would a Toasted Coconut Porter be entered, Fruit or Specialty?
Cheers
Tom Moench
"we can do this two ways, my way or my way pissed off" Tom Moench
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:49:02 -0500
From: Matt Wehland <mwehland@webtripper.com>
Subject: Beer In Southern Illinois?
On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 "Kirk, Jim" <jkirk@dnr.state.in.us> wrote-
>I'll be spending a few days in southern IL for a business trip. In and
>around the Carbondale area. Can anyone tell me of any good brewpubs or other
>watering holes featuring good beers? Will travel for beer!
It's been over a year since I left the area, but the Copper Dragon was the
only brew pub that was down there, not a bad place, silly management
though. It's in the Pinch Penny complex, by the towers (Dorms), on grand
ave (IIRC) They usually had bands there. They used to have good food, but
last I heard they had gotten rid of the kitchen. I had also heard that
they were thinking of loosing the brewery. Also I think the brew master
has changed since I was down there, Harlan (old BM) used to hang out on
this list, not sure who the new BM is. Outside of that it's a Keystone
town, with Miller/Bud swill being the good beer.
Try the 17th St bar and grill in Murphysborro for some good ribs, not sure
of the beer selection.
Basically your on your own, the liquor stores have some decent beer (Hacker
Shor sp?, Goose, Blue Moon etc) but it really isn't a premium beer town.
If you don't want to hang out at college parties or bars, I'd suggest
picking up or bringing some good beer and checking out the natural sites,
stop by the kinkaid spillway, inspiration point, little grand canyon, giant
city and more I can't remember off hand. If you like to fish, bring some
gear, there is great fishing. Oh and I have to recomend the spillway
twice, school should be in session and if the weather is good on the
weekend, the sights there can be very nice.
There is nothing outside of Carbondale until Kentucky or St Louis.
Matt Wehland mwehland@webtripper.com
Computer Network Specialist
MCSE CCNA
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:00:06 -0700
From: "Dave Sapsis" <dsapsis@earthlink.net>
Subject: BJCP Exam Schedule
Good folks,
Time for the periodic post alerting any potential examinees of the current
BJCP exam schedule.
Follks in the midwest should also note that there will likely be an exam at
the end of the year in the Omaha area. As always, the current schedule can
be found at
http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/examsch.html
9/8 San Diego, CA Peter Zien Day Phone: (858) 459-4540
Evening Phone: (858) 546-7824
pz.jdzinc@worldnet.att.net
9/14 Dayton, OH Gordon Strong Day Phone: (937) 431-1366
Evening Phone: (same)
strongg@earthlink.net
9/22 Sevierville, TN Tom Karnowski Day Phone: (865) 574-5732
Evening Phone: (865) 694-4389
karnowsk@esper.com
10/18 Nashville, TN Fred Scheer Day Phone: (615) 385-0050
Evening Phone: (615) 833-0455
fhopheads@msn.com
10/20 Cleveland, OH Charles Bernard Day Phone: (216) 271-5300 x607
Evening Phone: (330) 725-7072
bernardch@mindspring.com
10/23 Las Vegas, NV Steve MacMillan Day Phone: (702) 768-0815
Evening Phone: (702) 435-5816
11/3 Denver, CO Jim Edgins Day Phone: 720-482-4702
Evening Phone: 303-470-0106
jimedgins@aol.com
11/18 Pittsburgh, PA Rich Schutte Day Phone: (none)
Evening Phone: (none) rwschutte@hotmail.com
cheers,
- --David Sapsis
BJCP Exam Co-Director
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:27:21 -0700
From: Bill Riel <bill.riel@home.com>
Subject: Re: Great British Beer Festival
[ replying late because I just returned from the UK and I'm only getting
caught up on my hbd reading now...]
Ant Hayes asked about others attending the GBBF - I was there, but only
for the first two days.
However, I attended as a volunteer, rather than a "punter", so I was at
the site two days early, helping with setup and drinking lots of real
ale all the way through. I would have to say that I had the time of my life!
Attending a beerfest of this magnitude is fantastic, but working at it
is an unbelievable experience! I'm going to write up an article for our
local "What's Brewing" describing the experience of a Canuck working the
GBBF, but in short, the great beer was secondary to the awesome people I met.
I've never made so many friends at a single event in my entire life:
without a doubt I'm going back and I'm making plans to visit the
hometowns of several of the friends I met. But, since this is a beer
forum, I'll add that I agree with your assessment of the beers: the best
were the best I've tasted, some were definitely problematic.
My time in the UK has convinced me that 'Real Ale' (CAMRA style) can be
the best or worst way to serve beer. At it's best it's sublime; there's
nothing like it, but I was served a few sub-par pints in pubs where I
suspect the beer turnover wasn't what it should be.
One good thing I discovered was that there was never any problem with me
sending a pint back if I wasn't satisfied (this is true at the fest, too).
Also, your point about the beer styles represented: I noticed that, too.
Here at the Great Canadian Beer Fest we have an abundance of Stouts and
Porters - at the GBBF there were a few stouts, and I did drink one or
two porters at the 'Volunteer Arms' (the pub set up for volunteer
staff), but the bulk of the beers were bitters. I was impressed with the
number of milds, though, and with the range of flavour represented
within that style.
It's an event definitely worth attending. Even better to volunteer if
you can!
Cheers,
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:53:54 -0700
From: Bill Riel <bill.riel@home.com>
Subject: Re: Fest with 100-odd real ales . . .
Ray Daniels responds to Ant Hayes:
> Well Ant, if you ever find yourself near Chicago on the first of March,
> we'll show you how to do it up right. We exhibit more than 150 firkins of
> American and British real ale at the Real Ale Festival -- and the serving
> size is four ounces, so you can sample without, uh, wasting any beer. ;-]
Ray,
not to diminish the Chicago Real Ale festival (of which I've heard
wonderful things), but by my count, the GBBF had more like 350 real ales
on tap, not including the bottled beer bar (all bottle conditioned) and
all the imports (including American beers) at the Bieres Sans
Frontieres. Oh, and roughly 50 ciders and perrys at the Cider bar as well!
As to the sample size difference, we do four ounces as well at the Great
Canadian Beer Fest. I found that at the GBBF, pints and half pints
weren't as bad a measure as it sounds, especially since the average beer
has a lower alcohol % than what you find in North American beer fests.
At the GBBF, (and indeed, through much of Britain) 5% ABV is considered
a fairly strong beer.
Or maybe I was just used to quaffing huge quantities of ale by the time
the fest rolled around so it wasn't a problem ;-)
In any case, the GBBF bills itself as the biggest pub in the world: it's
meant to be a pub rather than a beer tasting event. Different than the
way we do things, but very appealing in any case!
Cheers!
Bill
(who hopes to make it out to Chicago for your fine fest one of these days...)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:06:05 -0500
From: Bill Tobler <WCTobler@brazoria.net>
Subject: Enzyme killer? Or not....
Hi all, I lurk most of the time, and try to stay out of the battle zone. I
have a serious question about my brew methods, so here is a quick
background of my methods and equipment. I have a HERMS system, 15 gallon
HLT and a 10 gallon Polerware pot as a Mash tun. It has a Bazooka T screen
on the drain, with a Polerware SS false bottom over top of it. (Overkill,
yes I know) The HLT temps and the Mash temps are both controlled by Omega
temp controllers, CN9000A models. The HLT has a 7000 watt element, and
inside is the heat exchanger for the mash, a 25' long coil of 1/2" copper
tubing. At the inlet of the copper tubing is a 3-way valve, which directs
the flow of wort into the heat exchanger or to a bypass, and back into the
mash. The 3-way valve, which controls the temp of the mash, is controlled
by one of the Omega temp controllers, and is in on/off mode. The wort is
moved by a pump from Moving Brews, using 3/8" ID soft hose. There is a 4
outlet return manifold on top of the mash. Ok, now that that's out of the
way, here is my usual method. I would heat the HLT up to ~180 deg F, and
keep it there from the start. I would dough in at ~120 deg, then ramp up to
my first stop. Sometimes 122 for a short protein rest, usually right up to
152-155, mash to conversion and then mash out at 168 deg.
My question is about the little guys, the enzymes. Do they get diluted into
the wort? And when does that start? With the HLT at 180 deg, the outlet
temp of the circulating wort can get as high as 170 deg. So the wort temp
gets high enough to kill the enzymes early on in the mash, if they were all
in the wort. I am guessing/hoping that most of the enzymes are in the mash,
and stay there throughout most of the mash time. How long do the enzymes
need to be exposed to high temps to get denatured? My beers usually turn
out good, finish around 1012. Most OG's are around 1050 to 1058. I check
for starch at the end of the last rest before mashout, and it is always
converted. Maybe I should RDWHAHB. If I was killing the little buggers, I
would never get rid of all the starch.
My next few brews, I'm going to ramp the HLT up along with the mash, and
keep it just 10 deg higher than the mash set point. Thanks in advance for
all the help, now and in the past.
To Better Brewing
Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:28:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: leavitdg@plattsburgh.edu
Subject: rye-pils,..beta glucans
Joel;
I like the idea of maiking a pils with rye, and may in fact try that
myself...as the temperature drops here in Northern NY state...and allows
me to lager without the aid of a fridge...water in the trashcan sort of
setup...
I am concerned with the lack of beta glucan rest (95-104F according to Fix).
I brewed a hefe-rye with the following ingredients, but failed to do the
glucan rest (had company...started to drink a few..) and found that it came
out too thick (for most...but not for me).
I used :
8 lb Canada Maltings 6 row (recommended to me for its beta glucanase)
4lb rye (too muc for a pils..)
1 lb wheat (for head)
1 lb rice flakes (wanted to lighten it a bit)
128F for 20 minutes
148F for 30
158F for 30
First runnings were 1.09
boil gravity was 1.052
original gravity (90 min boil) was 1.056
secondary gravity was 1.014
final gravity was 1.104
%abv was 5.5
Hops were 1 oz Ultra (3.4%aa) after first 30 min
and another @ 30 left.
no finish hops, as I wanted the rye to come through...and boy does it!
I used a vial of both Hefe (wlp300) and Wit (wlp400)...they were both dated for
march 01,...so I wanted to use them up.
I really like the mix of the hefe and the rye...but if I do it again I will
use maybe 2 lb at the most. I wanted to push it to the edge just to see
what would happen...I like the challenge...but think that it was too much
for most.
If I were to do a pils with the rye,...I think that a pound at the most, in a
8-10 lb grain bill would be sufficient...so long as you keep the hops at
the low end...which you seem to be doing..
good luck and please post your results to the HBD. We can all learn from each
other. If I do the Rye Pils (down the road a few months) then I will post it
as well....
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:05:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Denis Bekaert <Denis-B@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Agave Mead
Scott asked ....hmmm 5 pounds of honey, 3 pounds of
agave nectar, some yeast and budda bing budda bang...
Agave Mead...
Anyone try it??? Thoughts???
Hey Scott, Lynne at St. Pat's of Texas has had this
mead at their store in the past. INMHO it was to die
for...best mead I've ever tasted. I'm sure she'd be
happy to share the recipe with all who asked...
Brew on Brothers and Sisters...
Denis in Beechgrove, Tennessee where Moonshine is our
history but homebrewing is our passion.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3719, 08/27/01
*************************************
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