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HOMEBREW Digest #3670
HOMEBREW Digest #3670 Wed 27 June 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
CAP and cream ale recipes: part 2 (Jeff Renner)
Calories? ("John Thompson")
Saison (Ken Pendergrass)
throwing stones a glass houses (fwd) (Jim Liddil)
More ?? about the blackberry stout ("Tom & Dee McConnell")
conversion (leavitdg)
re: Wyeast ?s ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
RE:TSP in carboys ("Walter H. Lewis III")
bitter beer face? (Marc Sedam)
re: context and comedy ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
Cara Pils Malt (Nathan Kanous)
Wyeast woes ("Dr. John S Thompson")
Re: H202 (Michael Maceyka)
Re: mellowing bitterness for the nonbelivers (Maury)
Mills & CAP & CACA (Greg Remec)
re:too bitter bitter ("Peter Fantasia")
Etching Glass (John Palmer)
Wyeast questions ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
Brew Flags ("David Craft")
Finings Question ("Paul S Domski")
Question: Protecting Hops from Beatles? (leavitdg)
San Diego Brewpubs (jeff storm)
Raising pH with slaked lime- problems (Eric Jacobs)
Grain Mills (Eric Jacobs)
geometry vs. temperature ("Dr. Pivo")
Jeff's CAP/Cream Ale recipes ("Sweeney, David")
*
* 2001 AHA NHC - 2001: A Beer Odyssey, Los Angeles, CA
* June 20th-23rd See http://www.beerodyssey.com for more
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* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:11:19 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner@mediaone.net>
Subject: CAP and cream ale recipes: part 2
Brewers
This is the supplement to part 1 one brewing CAPS.
Jeff
-=-=-=-
FIRST WORT HOPPING
A lost and recently rediscovered German hopping technique from a
hundred years ago, first wort hopping (FWH), works very well in CAPs.
While I have found no direct evidence of this technique being used in
the United States, American brewers of this time were largely German
born or educated, or at least strongly German influenced, and it
seems likely that it was used here. George Fix first reported the
German research, which was published in Brauwelt in 1995, to the
homebrewing community on HBD in 1996.
In this procedure, normal late addition or aroma hops are instead
added to the first wort as soon as the kettle bottom is covered, and
kept at runoff temperature (about 176F) during the entire time of
runoff. These hops are then left in the kettle for the entire boil
along with normal bittering hops. Hop oil constituents are bound in
a complex manner with other wort constituents resulting in "a fine,
unobtrusive hop aroma; a more harmonic beer; a more uniform
bitterness" than control pilsners with conventional aroma hop
additions, according to the professional taste panels, which
preferred the FWH beer overwhelmingly. I feel it gives enhanced hop
flavor as well.
As expected, since these additional hops stayed in the boil along
with the bittering hops, this resulted in greater measured
bitterness. However, it was not perceived by the taste panels as
more bitter but rather as a fine, mild bitterness without any
harshness that might be present in an overhopped beer. For this
reason, bittering hops should not be reduced.
TRADITIONAL AMERICAN "DOUBLE MASH"
American brewers more than a hundred years ago realized that domestic
barley had an excess of protein and that corn and rice, with their
low protein levels, could be used to advantage. However, corn and
rice starches don't gelatinize at mash temperatures, and so aren't
available to the malt enzymes for conversion into sugars. Boiling the
cereal gelatinizes the starch, but then you have cooked rice or
cornmeal mush, and those are hard to handle in a brewery, and when
they cool, they become really stiff and hard to move or incorporate
into the mash. The secret turned out to be malt. By adding a small
amount of malt to the cereal and mashing a short time before cooking,
the cereals become quite thin and stay that way.
The practice one hundred years ago was to use 30% malt by weight,
which I still do, despite current practice of using only 10%. In a
kitchen pot with lid, mash about five ounces of malt for every pound
of corn meal, grits, polenta, or coarsely ground rice. Use about a
quart and a half of treated mash water per pound of corn, two quarts
for rice. Rest at about 153 F (67C) for 20 minutes in a preheated
oven or wrap well in a blanket, then bring to a boil on the stove or
your brewery burner.
Rice and corn meal should be cooked covered about 30 minutes; grits
or polenta 45 minutes to an hour. Stir as you bring them up to a
boil and occasionally during the boil, adding more water if
necessary. It's best not to overcook rice, but corn can be cooked
longer for more flavor and color reactions to take place in the
cooker if you want these.
Meanwhile, you have started the main, or malt mash, and timed it so
that just as the cereal mash is done, it is time to boost the
temperature of the main mash. It's best to plan this ahead on paper.
-=-=-=-=-=-
NO BREW FRIDGE? BREW A CACA!
That's HBDer Paul Shick's "unfortunate acronym" for what he calls
Classic American Cream Ale. Nineteenth century ale brewers, seeing
their sales drop as the public's taste changed to pale, clear,
effervescent lagers, but lacking refrigeration and aging facilities,
developed a beer brewed like a pilsner, but fermented as an ale.
These were called "present use" or cream ales, and they have evolved
into today's cream ales just as pilsners evolved, but the few
remaining cream ales today bear only a fleeting resemblance to their
ancestors.
The same advantages those ale brewers exploited can be yours today.
A CACA is a fine, enjoyable beer, and you'll be partaking of history.
Ferment the beer with ale yeast at cellar temperatures and age it as
cool as you can manage. This is an ale that can be served at 45 F
(7C), where chill haze can be a problem, so if that bothers you,
consider using Polyclar (R) at the end of fermentation.
This brew has another advantage if you find liquid yeast and starters
daunting - there are now some fine dry ale yeasts available.
(Quality dry true lager yeasts are on the near horizon.) Shick
reports good success with Danstar Nottingham, but I find it a little
too attenuative for my tastes. I've found Windsor nice - it finishes
richer.
Wyeast 1056 American Ale or White Labs WPL001 California Ale is a
natural choice in liquid yeasts as they are reputedly the old
Ballantine Ale yeast; White Labs WPL008 East Coast Ale would give
less attenuation for a softer, creamier ale. I've liked the results
with Wyeast 1098 British, and Yeast Culture Kit Co.'s Canadian
(Molson) ale yeast gives a remarkable and distinctive Canadian
character. The very clean fermenting White Labs WLP029 German
Ale/Kolsch yeast would be another excellent choice, producing not so
much of a cream ale as a pseudo-lager.
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:28:10 -0500
From: "John Thompson" <jthomp6@lsu.edu>
Subject: Calories?
Is there a list on the Internet somewhere for the calorie content of
commercial beers? I'm really not interested in the light American lagers...I
know Miller Lite has 96 calories and I suspect the other lights have similar
calories. Rather, I'm wondering what a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Guiness pub
draft, Liberty Ale, etc. might have.
On that note, how does one figure calories based on SG and FG? It seems to
me that the recipe would also impact calorie content. In other words, could
two beers -- say a porter and a bock -- have the same SG and FG, but
different calorie contents?
Just wondering...
John Thompson
Baton Rouge, LA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:00:20 -0400
From: Ken Pendergrass <kenp794@earthlink.net>
Subject: Saison
The summer issue of Brew Your Own has an interesting recipe for Saison
p.32. The author states the commercial brewer, New Belgium, uses two
strains of yeast but since he is trying to keep it simple he doesn't go
into using 2 strains. What 2 types would be used a Saison and something
else or two Saison? Wouldn't a Saison culture contain 2 strains?
Thanks,
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:42:27 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil@VMS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: throwing stones a glass houses (fwd)
There are a couple of things in the recent zymurgy issue that at
problematic. The good docotr isenhour mentions that Kloeckera creates
proteases. I know this is a statement made by guinard. But guinard was
never able to rovide me with a reference and a literature search back to
1970 was noi able to find a sngle article that mentions proteolytic
activity in the strain. Further a number or yeast taxonomists I queried
ahd no knowledge fo this activyt in Kloeckera.. And I di my own
experriments with two strains using standard assays for proteolytic
activity in yeasts and they were all negative.
Also the author continues to present the poetic notion that lambic is
innoculated byt the wind. But then goes on to say that "his" thesis is
that one has to have the right collection of bugs.
Sorry but none of this is news. Lambic breweries are a microenvironment.
All places in the brewery are "infected" with various microbes. And wood
barrels are know to harbor microbes even after cleaning. I have commented
on this exstensively suing various phd dissertatons about lambic
breweries, rodenbach and wineries.
And it is intersting that the rodenbach article did not ref any of the
stuff on the lad of hbd about rodenbacah like
pediococcus parvulus. But hey zymurgy does not have a technical editor
any more.
Jim liddil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 01:23:07 -0600
From: "Tom & Dee McConnell" <tdmc@bigfoot.com>
Subject: More ?? about the blackberry stout
on Mon, 25 Jun 2001 in HBD #3669,
leavitdg@plattsburgh.edu posted his Blackberry
Stout recipe.
What sort of hops did you add? and what was the
schedule? (you must have REALLY enjoyed the
sampling you did ;-)
Also, does anyone know (or know the url to find
out) what the points per gallon is for the
blackberry puree? (or fresh blackberries for
that matter).
Tom & Dee McConnell (tdmc@bigfoot.com)
Albuquerque NM 87111
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 06:45:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: leavitdg@plattsburgh.edu
Subject: conversion
David;
I make about 1 all-grain batch per week...and I find that my best conversions
occur when I perform a rest at 147F (30-45 min...sometimes 60) and another at
158F (30-45 min). This gets the best out of both beta-amylase (140-148F) as
well as alpha-amalyase (154-162F). (these temps come from Fix and Fix, 1997).
the other thing, of course, is your water to grain ratio: most recommend about
1.3 quarts of mash water per pound of grist....
Also, pH is worth attending to...perhaps others can comment on that.
...Darrell
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:14:01 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew@compuserve.com>
Subject: re: Wyeast ?s
Jeff Hertz asked a few ?s about using Wyeast:
>>I like the idea of
>>Wyeast, and I know they're a big supporter of
>>homebrewing, but is their product really this hard to
>>use or am I doing something wrong? Do you need to
>>wait for the pack to rise before pitching it into a
>>starter? How long do people usually wait for the pack
>>to rise?
Each question in turn; no Wyeast is not that hard to use
but I don't think it is something you are doing wrong.
It is *better to let the pack swell to at least an inch before
making the starter. You could smack it and pitch immediately,
but that defeats the idea of at least the 1st step of your starter
being sterile. I've had packs swell fully in anywhere from 7 hours
to 4 days *depending on age of the pack. In fact I popped 2 of
the same strain, one being 1 1/2 months old and the one 1 week
old and the older one was only 3 hours behind the younger in
reaching "maximum puff." Time to "maximum puff" varies from
strain to strain.
The red slurry you described was maybe more break material
than yeast. Even from a very dark starter wort the yeast layer should
be creamy white. The lack of active slurry would explain the long
lag time.
Why the poor performance with Wyeast is guesswork, but my first
*guess would be stress (heat?) somewhere along the way to you.
That is assuming the pack you refer to was 3 months old and that's
why you allowed 3 days for the pack to swell.
My personal feelings are; if you pour in a pitchable vial and expect
it to be 100% viable but it is 70% dead how would you know??
(short of staining and hemocytometer counts, and we _all_ have
hemocytometers and microscopes right?)
If a smack pack has suffered some yeast mortality, in waiting until
the pack is swollen you_know_there are vital yeast from which
to build a starter.
I would ask your supplier if both yeast brands are stored at the
same temperature and at what temperature. It's supposed to be
almost 32 degrees but not colder.
NP Lansing
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:40:05 -0400
From: "Walter H. Lewis III" <wlewis@alliedlogistics.com>
Subject: RE:TSP in carboys
I also noted that TSP box says avoid contact with glass. I also called
the 800 number on the box and asked about the dangers and
concentrations.
Though the receptionist couldn't answer my question she had a chemest
return my call.
I explained what I wanted to do and asked exactly what the danger was.
He explained that etching was a factor of concentration AND heat. He
felt there was little danger using "regular household concentrations in
cold to warmwater." That translates to 1/4 C per 2 gallons of water in
warm to cold water.
SO, IF you keep your concentrations down AND you keep your temp down AND
you keep contact time to only what is necessary, I see no danger in
using TSP. I know when I did use it I was amazed at the speed of
cleaning a dried on yeast ring.
Walt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:30:04 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam@unc.edu>
Subject: bitter beer face?
Aaron asks about taming down a bitter beer...
Try taking a can (or bag) of malt extract, add a few pellets
of hops, and ferment with two packs of dry yeast. The wort
should be totally fermented in a day or two. Blend this
beer with your other one until the bitterness reaches what
you want. Or blend it 1:1, serve the less bitter beer to
your friends, and save the unblended for your private
consumption.
- --
Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:34:19 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew@compuserve.com>
Subject: re: context and comedy
Steve said:
>>As for Nathaniel Lansings suggestion that I am twisting statements
by excluding context. <<
If I said I sent my son to the garage for the Visegrips(r) and he
"came up with" a Channelocks(r) did I say he invented them?
Anyway you do it all the time; frinstance I said yeast evolved in a
system that is assuredly not great in depth as our fermenters, you
came back with but that our brewer's yeast ferment complex
carbohydrates. That is not only out of context it's from outer space!
But now I finally get the real essence of your postings; it a comedy act
not real beneficial science stuff. No wonder I had trouble with what
you were saying all this time, I had taken it *all out of context.
You had said a mash-out was of little consequence, and the Tuborg
trials showed this, then admitted the trials were_not_ a test of mash-out,
and that a test of mash-out would be hard to do because of the variables.
Ahh, now I seeing the humor, heh heh
Then there was the piece I posted in re: foam rest. This study was
rebuffed
by you stating they crush their malt differently and besides, who'd want
improved foam stand in a mild. Chuckle, I'm really catching on now.
Then you said there is no relation between pH and conductivity. That's
really has me rolling cuz researchers are wasting thousands of $$s
on conductivity bridges and meters to calibrate their pH meters and
test ionic concentration in strong acids and bases. What a hoot!!
Then there was something about how acid washing isn't even effective
at sanitizing a yeast culture, and Five Star(r) has people believing their
solution of phosphoric acid and soap destroys beer spoilage
organisms. Ho Ho Ho, how gullible the buying public is.
Then you said testing for H:W would be nearly impossible because
of difficulty controlling all the variables, but now you are conducting
an experiment that is going to do all that? Well the biggest variable
will not be eliminated and that is researcher bias.
Ha Ha Ha
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:23:35 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous@pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Cara Pils Malt
Hi,
I noticed a posting yesterday about steeping specialty grains and the
included recipe listed CaraPils malt. My discussions with the folks at
Briess indicate that CaraPils malt must be mashed to release the dextrins
into the wort. This could lead, to some extent, to "poor extraction" in
steeping. It probably won't help the beer much.
I've looked at a lot of recipes in my day. One thing that really bothers
me is when homebrew suppliers recommend that homebrewers steep things like
CaraPils, flaked wheat, flaked barley, and flaked oats. This simply
doesn't make any sense beyond putting starch haze in your beer and inviting
wild yeasts / bacteria to feed when traditional brewers yeast cannot
metabolize the complex carbohydrates.
I'm going to guess that many suggest this so that extract / kit brewers can
make "oatmeal stout" and the like. I understand that marketing plays a
role, but why should the shops promote something that's just not going to
work well? Just trying to make novices think they're "brewing with the
all-grainers"? I've tasted many excellent extract beers and they typically
come from folks that don't do such things. Thoughts?
Stirring the pot in Madison, WI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:22:42 -0500
From: "Dr. John S Thompson" <jthomp6@lsu.edu>
Subject: Wyeast woes
I just did an APA over the weekend and used a Wyeast
pack and was just wondering why it has never taken
off. I was using the XL size of their "Northwest Ale"
yeast, smacked it on Wednesday, gave it two days at 70
degrees to rise (it rose only minimally),
<me> You should definitely wait until it puffs up. If it rises only
minimally, that would tell you that the fermentation is minute.
then I made
my usual 1000 ml starter Friday, pitched the pack in
the starter, and pitched the whole starter in my wort
on Saturday night.
<me> What did the starter look like? It should have been *actively*
fermenting...hazy wort from yeast, Krausen on top, little bubbles rising
like a freshly-opened can of soda. Don't pitch it if it's not actively
fermenting.
24 hours later..nothing...no
bubbling, no krausen...so being Sunday and no
brewshops open in my area, I didn't have many options
and had to pitch a yeast cake from a Saison that I had
in secondary.
<me> Ouch. That's not going to give you an APA...as you know. I'd lower the
temperature (if you can) to about 60F.
Now, 12 hours later-much bubbling and frothing
thanks to my substitute yeast and I'm wondering about
the logic of Wyeast and why I should use it anymore.
Over the last two years, I've used White Labs vials
for all but three batches and had virtually no
trouble. Two of the three times I've used Wyeast
packs, the pack didn't rise within 3 days and I had
major fermentation problems. No, this is not a veiled
advertisement for White Labs. I like the idea of
Wyeast, and I know they're a big supporter of
homebrewing, but is their product really this hard to
use or am I doing something wrong?
<me> I like Wyeast b/c I've never had infection problems with their product,
and I like the "storability" of the packs.
Do you need to
wait for the pack to rise before pitching it into a
starter? How long do people usually wait for the pack
to rise?
<me> YES. Unfortunately, this is the big problem with Wyeast. Some packs
swell overnight...some take three days. The last one I used took three days,
then two days in a starter. Fortunately, my schedule is flexible and I can
brew whenever. But normally I'll allow at least a few days for the yeast to
get from an unsmacked pack to an actively fermenting starter.
<+>-<+>-<+>-<+>-<+>-<+>
John S. Thompson, Ph.D.
Department of Economics
Louisiana State University
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:33:24 -0700
From: Michael Maceyka <mmaceyka@bc.georgetown.edu>
Subject: Re: H202
Digesters,
Thanks to the good Doctor Pivo for the report of casual observations
re: H2O2. Helpful and enjoyable, as always. Just thought I would try
to keep this horse alive...
He mentioned that one of the things that struck him as odd was that
there was not as much bubbling upon injecting H2O2 into the wort as he
would have expected from his experiences playing with broken bowels.
This got me to thinking, and I recalled lectures on "The Perfect
Enzyme," catalase.
We make H2O2 in our bodies (if we make it, it must be healthy, and
more is better, right?). Our cells contain an enzyme called catalase
which turns two H2O2 molecules into water and O2, hopefully before the
H2O2 is able to muck up our DNA. When we bust up our guts, or even just
cut ourselves, cells are broken and this enzyme is released. Thus, when
the sadistic Pivo gleefully adds H2O2 to our wounds, catalase turns it
into water and O2, hence bubbles. But if we put H2O2 into wort or on
our skin, no (or few) bubbles form, as the peroxide reacts mostly with
proteins, lipids, etc. rather than with itself to release oxygen.
Why H2O2 altered fermentation characteristics is strange to me, as
yeast also have catalase.
Mike Maceyka
Bungalow Brewing
Takoma Park, MD
PS - Thanks to Jeff Renner for the current CAP recipe. This time I
really will brew it.
PPS - Taking Pivo's lead, I am doing a little 'spurmintating myself.
Several drops of 3% H2O2 onto my uncut palm and no discernible bubbles.
Guess I should cut myself for the control, but maybe Mr. Garvin would
have a better idea about what to do with my now sanitized hand...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:56:51 -0700
From: Maury <hopboy@charter.net>
Subject: Re: mellowing bitterness for the nonbelivers
There was an article in a past issue of Zymurgy that spoke about
useing POLYCLAR to reduce bitterness in an over-hopped beer.
This is a basic rendition of what to do:
While the beer is still in the secondary you can add in a heavy dose of
polyclar. The ployclar will bind with the poly-tannins of the hops
and settle them out along with any proteins that cause chill haze.
To use you mix 2 tablespoons of polyclar in in 6 oz of sterile water.
Pour into your beer and stir to evenly distribute mixture thoughout your
beer.
If you want more information on this subject you can refer to the
Winter 1995 issue of Zymurgy.
Good luck : Maury
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:08:47 -0500
From: Greg Remec <gremec@gsbpop.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Mills & CAP & CACA
Hello all,
My hops bines are 25 feet tall and blooming, and I'm already dreaming up
all the wonderful recipes I'll brew this fall. This will be my fourth year
of all grain brewing, and I'm seriously considering buying my own grain
mill, particularly after the wife justified spending $200 for vet fees on a
dog I wish we didn't own. Someone today requested opinions about the
Crankandstein mill, which appears to be quite a nice piece of
machinery. I've dutifully searched the archives and reviewed many opinions
about Maltmills, Philmills, and Valley Mills. I only saw one opinion on
the Barleycrusher, which was from someone who had recently purchased it and
loved it. Right now, the Barleycrusher looks to be my choice, but I'd very
much appreciate hearing some seasoned experiences and opinions.
I've brewed both CAPs and CACAs, in large part thanks to Jeff Renner's
postings. My last CACA was a best of both worlds, as I used Steam yeast
that allowed me to get lager character but fermented at cool basement
temperatures. I suppose I could have just increased the hops and called it
a CAP, since this is technically a lager yeast. Anyway, I followed Jeff's
cereal mashing technique and it was quite fun, and I think added nicer corn
character than with flaked corn I've used in the past. I also replaced a
few pounds of base malt with Vienna malt for complexity and a bit of
color. It still needed more aging than an ale, but turned out to be a
wonderfully refreshing and flavorful brew that pleased a wide variety of
palates. If you haven't tried a CAP or CACA, definitely add it to your list.
Cheers!
Greg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:03:32 -0400
From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter@hotmail.com>
Subject: re:too bitter bitter
Aaron,
I actually had the same problem with a ten gal batch I recently made. I
added a lb and a half of dry malt extract After boiling of course) and that
corrected it. I added dry
hops to the other half and had quite a nice pale ale!
Pete
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:14:21 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer@gte.net>
Subject: Etching Glass
Phil asks how to etch glass.
There is only one right answer -- Sandblaster.
To acid etch you need a mixture which would include hydrofluoric acid,
which is simply way, way too hazardous. A single drop will descend thru
your skin causing massive tissue damage and not stop until it finds a bone
to dissolve. And I do not exaggerate by much. Symptoms can take a couple
hours to develop depending on concentration. Hydrofluoric seeks calcium,
and at high exposures it will cause a calcium imbalance in your body that
is fatal.
John Palmer
Monrovia, CA
homepage
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer
How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:57:02 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders@paddockwood.com>
Subject: Wyeast questions
Jeff Hertz writes of Wyeast:
=====
I was using the XL size of their "Northwest Ale" yeast, smacked it on
Wednesday, gave it two days at 70 degrees to rise (it rose only minimally),
then I made my usual 1000 ml starter Friday, pitched the pack in the
starter, and pitched the whole starter in my wort on Saturday night. 24
hours later..nothing
======
I wonder what the manufacture date was? We have used packs over 3 years
old. They take a long time to swell, and definitely need a series of
starters, but they will work. In practice we do not recommend using packs
older than 1 year without a starter. We pull our XL packs from sale after 5
months.
It has been our experience that Wyeast XL packs outperform pitchable tubes
of the same age. But it has also been our experience that rushing the yeast
ensures long lag times. Jeff notes that the pack rose minimally, so the
yeast was probably severely under pitched even in 1L starter. Better
results may have come from letting the pack swell to 2 inches. The starter
probably did nothing to advance the yeast, and could have increased the risk
of infection. Starters are great, but be sure to pitch fully active
cultures.
Wyeast packs need aprox 1 day for every month past manufacture, but this is
approximate. For best results let the pack swell to 2" thick before
pitching, into a starter or otherwise. A minimally swollen pack, assuming it
did swell, could have gone into a 250ml starter, but IMHO it's better to let
it swell fully.
cheers,
Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiis sugant."
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK, Canada
orders@paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:27:11 -0400
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft@craftinsurance.com>
Subject: Brew Flags
I have had several second follow ups on the Brew Flag. I have ordered them
and should have them any day.
If you would like, go ahead send the $10 per flag to David Craft, Box 14946,
Greensboro, NC 27405 or use Paypal at ChsyHkr@aol.com with my last name.
If you have never used Paypal, just send money to the above address.
As soon as they come in, I'll get them right out. By paying and sending your
address now I can start preparing mailing envelopes and get them out sooner.
Most of you ordered one, if you told me you wanted two, just send the extra
$10. I may have few extras after that when all is said and done. If you did
not order or want a second one, let me know. I'll see what I can do, but do
not send any money with checking with me first.
Yours in brewing,
David B. Craft
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:28:45 -0600
From: "Paul S Domski" <psdomski@dukeengineering.com>
Subject: Finings Question
Hello-
Does anyone know which is the best fining agent to remove a slight
astringency (tannins) from a brew? I seem to recall that one of them can
help get rid of tannins but I can't remember which one. Here's the story,
a couple of weeks ago I brewed a light rye ale using 1# flaked (rolled)
rye, 0.5# biscuit, 3# Weyerman Pils, 3.5# American 2-row. I pre-boil my
water(9 gal) the day before to get rid of temporary hardness, alkalinity
460 mg/l as CaCO3, and acidify to pH 5.6 with lactic acid. I've been using
this same procedure for the last 5 years with no astringent brews - except
for my 1st all grain which was so mouth puckering it had to get tossed - I
learned my lesson quick with that one. Anyway, I don't think it was water
leaching the tannins from the husks, but when I racked to the secondary
there it was a slight astringent favor, not horrible but not what I want to
drink on hot afternoon. I figure if fining can get rid of some of it maybe
dry hopping will cover up the rest. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Paul
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:11:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: leavitdg@plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Question: Protecting Hops from Beatles?
I have a real nice bush of East Kent Goldings...they are
now over 6 feet high...and I would like to use them this
year...but how do I prevent rose beatles from eating them?
Last year they destroyed them.
Any good advice would be appreciated...the hops are 4 years
old, and I am yet to harvest them...due to bugs!
.Darrell
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:26:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: jeff storm <stormyjeff@rocketmail.com>
Subject: San Diego Brewpubs
I am heading to San Diego next week with the family.
We are staying in the La Mesa area and I was wondering
if anyone could provide me with some good
brewpubs/bars in the area. Personal emails welcome.
I also want to say how great the HBD is for
information. I have learned alot just by reading the
posts. New to homebrewing this year, I posted a
question a month back and many people responded with
helpful answers. One guy that is only about 3 miles
from me invited to his house, showed me his all grain
setup and let me sample 4-6 of his beers.
I brewed a batch with him June 3rd and now I have a 5
gallon keg of pale ale in my fridge. It is great to
hook up with a brewing partner that can share his
knowledge with me. The homebrewing community is great
that way. I jumped right into all grain and learned
alot even from only brewing 1 batch so far. Thanks
Bob for all your knowledge and help. I look forward
to July 7th when Bob and I brew a Guinness clone.
Thanks to the all the posters on the HBD and to my
friend Bob that shares his knowledge, equipment and
beer! Homebrewing is quickly becoming an obsession!
Jeff Storm
San Jose CA
=====
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 01:27:31 GMT
From: eljacobs@bellsouth.net (Eric Jacobs)
Subject: Raising pH with slaked lime- problems
Troy asked about slaked lime... I have some experience with using it
in saltwater aquariums, so here's some info in case it'll help Troy or
anyone else:
>When I set the jar down it all drops to the bottom.
It has VERY low solubility in water. I used to mix about a teaspoon
per gallon, and almost all of it seemed to settle out- and that's
normal.
>I did a second exp. and added 1 tsp. to 1 quart of water and it jumped
>the pH up to 11 - max that my papers could read.
If I remember right, it supposedly settles in around a pH of 10. So
that's about right.
You also wondered why you had to add so much of it to affect the pH of
the water, and whether it was ok to add that much: I'm not a chemist,
but I would think that because of the low solubility of the powder, it
just takes a lot of solution to neutralize the acids in the water. It
should be fairly safe to add a lot of it to the water, because all
you're really adding is Ca. (The lime is just CaOH or CaO. Lime is
one of the preferred methods of keeping Ca levels up in saltwater
aquariums, precisely because it doesn't add anything else to screw up
the water chemistry.) Just keep an eye on your final Ca levels...
One final tip: The CaOH solution doesn't keep very well- it's best to
mix it fresh when you need it. It absorbs CO2 from the air, and the
CaOH forms limestone and precipitates out.
- --
Eric Jacobs
eljacobs@bellsouth.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 01:56:31 GMT
From: eljacobs@bellsouth.net (Eric Jacobs)
Subject: Grain Mills
Dennis Collins wrote:
>Not to stir up the great grain mill debate, but has anyone used
>or seen the roller mills made by CrankandStein?
I have not used one, but I've taken a good look at them in person. (I
think the builder is a local brewer, and coincidentally, my local HB
shop has a couple in stock.) They definitely look well built. I have
an "Automatic" mill, and they look comparable to that in quality,
sturdiness, etc. (ie, both mills are very good) Can't really tell
you anything about ease of adjustment, assembling a hopper, etc.,
since I haven't actually done it. Personally, if I were shopping for
a mill, I would seriously consider it. NAYY.
- --
Eric Jacobs
eljacobs@bellsouth.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:44:54 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp@pivo.w.se>
Subject: geometry vs. temperature
I was very happy to see a large ammount of contributors to this forum
answer this question in a unanimous manner (that happens to coincide
with what I think).
I would take this one step further.
Outside of having your stuff "pretty clean" (so that bacillusker and
other weird things don't determine what happens with your wort, instead
of your brewing yeast)..... so is temperature your best tool to work
with.
The original poster had an ambient "cellar".
Lay in a few artificially constructed "other" temperatures, and the fun
begins!
You might hear a whole pile of chatter here about yeast strains,
pitching rates, oxygenation, geometry, and any other term that might
sound impressive..... but my impression is that if you have a good
healthy friend in your yeast (whatever his/her name might be), and make
it jump through as many temperature hoops as possible (hopefully at the
same time, so you know which one was "best"), you'll find out how to
force them to make "that perfect drop".
Making "wort" is just "work".
When the yeast come in, that's when the magic begins...... it seems to
me that the most important part of their working environment is the
temperature..... and THEN comes everything else.
Dr. Pivo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:22:51 -0500
From: "Sweeney, David" <David@studentlife.tamu.edu>
Subject: Jeff's CAP/Cream Ale recipes
Jeff:
Is the Part 1 recipe for the CAP or the cream ale? Since the yeast is lager
yeast, I'm guessing it's the CAP. Does this mean that the Cream Ale recipe
is forthcoming, and does it use ale yeast? What about using flaked corn and
rice rather than grits/meal? Would you still need the cereal mash? Any
reason to use one over the other?
PS: I figured out my Rennerian coordinates: lat: -11 51' 20" long: -12 20'
00"
David Sweeney
Texas A&M University
david@studentlife.tamu.edu
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3670, 06/27/01
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