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HOMEBREW Digest #3660
HOMEBREW Digest #3660 Fri 15 June 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
***************************************************************
THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:
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Contents:
Geometry again / Practical brewer thanks (David Harsh)
Brett, and Ped. ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
Re: Oxygenation via hydrogen peroxide ("Bret Morrow")
Amusing Tale (Patrick.Humphrey)
Malt shelf life?? ("Spinelli, Mike")
The most(?) fundamental of variable ("Paul Campbell")
New subscriber introduction/ 3 questions ("Jens Briesofsky")
Yeast Harvesting - Mini Cylindriconicals (Robert Rumph)
peristaltic pumps ("Gary Smith")
Re: odd books (might be off topic) ("Angie and Reif Hammond")
Lambic Pitching Schedules (Keith Busby)
220v Thermal Switch?? (oxlid)
("plotek")
Source for Brett. and Pedio. (james r layton)
Thanks ("Michael J. Dale, PE")
handpump / beer engine ("Micah Millspaw")
Low efficiency blues (Hop_Head)
Freezer Rust ("Pete Calinski")
Sahti ("Dr. Pivo")
RE: Ultimate Mall Crawl (Jim Federline)
Re: Ultimate Mall crawl: Mpls./St. Paul beer scene (B Johnson)
"Making Beer" (Frank Tutzauer)
International Brewing (Phil Wilcox)
On Books and Rare Books (Phil Wilcox)
Ball Valves, Polders and Radio Shack Thermometer in ferment ("Bruce Garner")
Another old book ("John Elsworth")
Anyone try the ShurFlo pump? (Dan.Stedman)
Re: Brettanomyces and Pediococcus ("RJ")
Re: Ball Valve Cleaning/sanitizing ("RJ")
*
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:33:52 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh@fuse.net>
Subject: Geometry again / Practical brewer thanks
Stephen Alexander <steve-alexander@worldnet.att.net> wrote lots:
> Ages ago, before Dr.Pivo developed his talent for rudeness
I guess your talent was there at birth...
Responding to Del, Steve also wrote:
> >Steve says:
> >>>have no lust for oxygen and even as a strategic advantage can
> >>>accomplish most of their life cycle without any O2 !! <<
> >
> >After previously saying in 3618:
> [...]
> >This seems to imply a serious need for oxygen
>
> Yeast have an absolute req for O2 as I've posted a zillion times...
I think the point is that there are three statements here, two say yeast
must have oxygen, one says they can mostly do without it. Seems like a
contradiction.
Then he aims at me:
> Mr.Harsh suggested that I examine a book on transport phenomena and I have.
> I find no models that would help us decide if the shear forces in a tall
> H:W fermenter are in fact greater than a low H:W one.
I didn't expect that you would find a ready-made model to apply to this
situation. I did expect that if you learned something about fluid
mechanics, you would understand what I am saying. I will attempt to
explain it to you, although I don't have much hope at this point.
Take a cylindrical fermenter, 1 meter diameter, 1 meter tall, total
volume 0.785 m3. There will be a cross-sectional area of 0.785 m2 the
convection currents can move through. Compare this to a 0.785 m3
fermenter with a 3:1 aspect ratio. This fermenter will have a diameter
of 0.693 m, a height of 2.08 m and a cross sectional area of .377 m2,
which is 48% of the 1:1 fermenter. (note - this is actual volume
fermented, assume that sufficient headspace is there for both systems)
Let's assume that the wort is aerated and pitched before being split
into these two fermenters. Lag times should be similar and we should
reach a rapid "full" fermentation in both systems at the same time. If
our fermentation rates are similar, which they should be, the CO2
evolved in the 3:1 system has less cross sectional area through which to
move! It won't decide to stay there, it will move at the same total
rate through the decreased c/s area, which means a higher velocity.
Since liquid will be dragged along with these bubbles, the rate of fluid
motion will be higher compared to the 1:1 system.
Since shear is defined as a gradient in velocity with position, we have
a higher velocity in the 3:1 system with a smaller characteristic length
of the system. Shear is higher!
> actual convention is (as far as I know) not determinable...
I assume you mean convection, and no, it would not be determinable.
However, I do recall some work on 3-phase fluidized beds that showed a
thin "slice" fluidized bed had the same performance as a circular one.
Possibly, one could do the same thing to track a fermentation. Of
course, the surface area to volume change could be quite significant and
mess things up here.
> Modest shear forces can cause the agglomerations of
> FLOCCULENT yeast. Not so non-flocculent yeast which experience repulsive
> forces and don't flocculate.
So are you saying that yeast are either "flocculent" or "non-flocculent"
- there's no in-between? I'd find that difficult to believe as
biological systems always seem to have shades of grey in with the black
and white. Furthermore, to claim that in a population of billions of
yeast cells in a fermenter, no flocculation will occur until somebody
blows their biochemical whistle to start things is reaching. It makes
me wonder why I see large yeast clumps circulating in a rapidly
fermenting wort if they are in their non-flocculating mode.
> It would seem to me that in a uniform height fermenter (non-CC)
> the macro circulation forces are primarily due to thermals and these would
> be difficult to compare between cornies and carboys for a lot of reasons.
I doubt that thermal gradients have any real signficance. There's a lot
of motion in a strong ferment and while I can believe that the
temperature in a fermenter is different from the ambient, but I don't
believe there are significant internal gradients. I would suspect that
those pesky little CO2 bubbles, which are less dense than wort, are
rising due to buoyancy and dragging the fluid along with it. Of course,
I haven't written all the equations to prove that, so its probably just
handwaving.
> Several books on bioreactor design state unequivocally that increased
> shear (to a fairly high figure) can improve growth in yeast tho' this
> in high aeration conditions atypical of brewing....This tends to weigh
> in the opposite direction from Dave's argument.
Wow. Experiments that don't apply to brewing disprove my argument.
That's a new one, Steve!
Let's go back to the start of this topic in HBD 3631, when Steve wrote:
> I suspect DeCleck and Fix both suffer from ill-designed experiments
> which did not control these other factors, and also overreaching
> conclusions which focus on H:W ratio over other more physically
> plausible explanations ...
It's time to either put-up or shut-up, Steve. For the third time, I am
asking you to itemize your "more physically plausible explanations" for
the phenomenon that has been observed by multiple brewers, both on the
commercial and homebrewing scale.
Personally, I suspect you only brought this up as an excuse to attack
Fix since your vitality/viability argument wasn't going well.
I've made it clear that more than one mechanism could explain this trend
and have no real loyalty to either of the mechanism I have presented,
except to say that they are, IMO, supported by the trends observed. I
(still) welcome alternative models but I'm going to ignore those that
can only respond with "you are wrong".
Finally- have you poured a Guiness into a Belgian beer glass to see one
example of how geometry affects circulation yet? Oh, let me guess -
it's due to microscopic surface differences between glass made in
Belgium and England, not geometry...
- -----------------
A quick thanks to all HBDers who offered me replacements for my
corrupted files. I've got them all now! The response was huge!
Dave Harsh Bloatarian Brewing League
Cincinnati, OH
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:56:02 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders@paddockwood.com>
Subject: Brett, and Ped.
Keith asks about where to get Brettanomyces and Pediococcus, but doesn't
want Wyeast Lambic blend. Wyeast also produces pure unblended cultures.
3122 & 3526 are Brett, 4335 is Lact. and 4733 is Ped.
Sellers of fresh Wyeast should be able to provide these to you. Paddock
Wood (affiliated) has them, special order (so about 2 weeks to shipping
usually). Sometimes we have some in stock.
Since the digest is small descriptions follow.
3112 Brettanomyces bruxellensis:
Wild yeast isolated from brewery cultures in the Brussels region of Belgium.
Produces the classic earthy sour character indigenous to beers of this
region; Gueuze, lambics, sour browns. Ferments best in worts with lower pH
after primary fermentation has begun. This strain is generally used in
conjunction with S. Cerevisiae as well as other wild yeast and lactic
bacteria. Produces some acidity and may form a thin film or layer in bottles
or casks. Generally requires 3-6 months aging for flavor to fully develop.
Flocculation medium; apparent attenuation low. (60-75 F)
3526 Brettanomyces lambicus:
Wild yeast isolated from Belgian Lambic beers. Produces a pie cherry like
flavor and sourness along with distinct Brett. character. Ferments best in
worts with reduced pH after primary fermentation has begun, and may form a
thin film or layer in bottles or casks. Works best in conjunction with other
yeast and lactic bacteria to produce the classic Belgian character.
Generally requires 3-6 months of aging to fully develop flavor
characteristics. Flocculation medium; apparent attenuation low. (60-75 F)
4335 Lactobacillus delbrueckii:
Lactic acid bacteria isolated from a Belgian Brewery. This culture produces
moderated levels of acidity and is commonly found in many types of beers
including Gueuze, lambics, sour brown ales and Berliner Weiss. Always used
in conjunction with S. cerevisiae and often with various wild yeast. (60-95
F)
4733 Pediococcus cerevisiae
Lactic acid bacteria used in the production of Belgian style beers where
additional acidity is desirable. Often found in Gueuze and other Belgian
style beer. High acid producer which usually increases overall acid levels
in beer as storage time increases.
Hope this is useful,
cheers,
Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK, Canada
orders@paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:52:57
From: "Bret Morrow" <bretmorrow@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oxygenation via hydrogen peroxide
Greetings all,
As a pharmacist and PhD pharmacologist, the idea of putting hydrogen
peroxide into your wort to supply oxygen for the yeast is a pretty bad one.
The oxygen releases from hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) upon contact with the
right surface--bacterial cell surfaces, raw wound edges, and, presumably,
living yeast cells. Some of these yeast cells that you are trying to help
will be damaged and killed by the oxygen. Probably not too many, but
something to consider. Secondly any H2O2 left in the wort will be consumed
by you, the drinker. Again, probably not too much, but H2O2 is not really a
beverage. Finally, and most importantly, is there a safer and potentially
better way of doing this? Yep, lots of 'em. Everything from splashing the
wort into carboy when collecting it to pumping (or even blowing) air through
a sterile cotton wad to using an oxygen tank is probably more effective and
definitely safer (if you do them right).
Also, do you really need more oxygen in your wort? Are you sure you have a
problem or have you been reading too many HBD posts? ;-)
Cheers,
Bret Morrow
Hamden, CT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:12:16 -0500
From: Patrick.Humphrey@abbott.com
Subject: Amusing Tale
I thought this was amusing...
A philosophy professor stood before his class and had some items in front of
him.
When the class began, wordlessly he picked up a large empty mayonnaise jar and
proceeded to fill it with rocks, rocks about 2" in diameter. He then asked the
students
if the jar was full? They agreed that it was.
So the professor then picked up a box ofpebbles and poured them into
the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles, of course, rolled into the
open
areas between the rocks. He then asked the students again if the jar was full.
They agreed it was.
The students laughed. The professor picked up a box of sand and poured it into
the jar.
Of course, the sand filled up everything else. "Now," said the professor,
"I want you to recognise that this is your life.
The rocks are the important things - your family, your partner, your
health, your children - things that if everything else was lost and
only they remained, your life would still be full.
The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house, your
car.
The sand is everything else. The small stuff." "If you put the sand into the
jar first,
there is no room for the pebbles or the rocks. The same goes for your life. If
you spend
all your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have room for the
things that really matter.
Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Play with
your children.
Take time to get medical checkups. Take your partner out dancing. There will
always be time
to go to work, clean the house, give a dinner party and fix the disposal."
"Take care of the
rocks first - the things that really matter.
Set your priorities. The rest is just sand."
But then...
A student then took the jar which the other
students and the professor agreed was full, and proceeded to pour in a glass
of beer.
Of course the beer filled the remaining spaces within the jar making the jar
truly full.
The moral of this tale is:
- that no matter how full your life is, there is always room for BEER
- ------------
Pat
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:17:13 -0400
From: "Spinelli, Mike" <paa3983@dscp.dla.mil>
Subject: Malt shelf life??
HBDers,
I have a couple sacks of Weyermann Munich and Caramunich that have been
around for 1-2 years. There's about a half bag of each left. They've been
stored in my spare bedroom. I've kept the top of the bags twisted w/ rubber
bands.
Is it still worth using?
Thanks
Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ
http://users.snip.net/~vincemash/monster/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 08:11:35 +0800
From: "Paul Campbell" <p.r.campbell@tesco.net>
Subject: The most(?) fundamental of variable
Chaps,
Many have written on the up-coming (?) ''experiment" that looms in HBD land,
but....
CO2 has the most profound influence on fermentation (in my, and my yeasts'
opinion that is)
that it should NOT be discounted from the HW (etc.) discussion. I'm
uncertain however at
a solution (sic) to eliminate it from the many parameters....
I enjoyed the debate on surface area... Would I diverge from simple
geometry when designing
a fermenter? It seems to me that we can exclude certain (theoretical) shapes
from the discussion
but what then are we left with? Probably the shapes we all use, no?
In my experience, most fermenters have a reasonable area to vent "excess"
CO2 (I'm a open
fermentation type of guy). The depth from which this bi-product has to flow
is variable, however.
My questions would be;
i) To what extent does dissolved CO2 concentration inhibit fermentation
(esp. at depth)?
ii) How would this relate to fermenter design?
I've observed (with others from the mailing list) that a transfer to
seconday (for example) aids the
final clearing (which *really?* marks end of fermentation). I theorise that
this is because there is
venting of CO2 which aids our yeast in achieving our aim.
Then again, the last time I tried to stimulate the digest on this, I
failed....
(It's probably too hard to ponder ;)
Paul
Glen Esk
Scotland
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:15:46 +0100
From: "Jens Briesofsky" <bries@gmx.net>
Subject: New subscriber introduction/ 3 questions
Hi,
It seems to be common practice in mailing lists that new members introduce
themself
briefly, and I would like to do so before I ask some questions.
I am a 35 year old male working in London (but living in the countryside).
You may be able to
pick up my accent even in this email: I am not a native british person but
german. I moved to England 3 years ago to work here as a Veterinary Surgeon
but got soon fed up with it and changed to software development.
Last year in August I started a new job and shortly after that I caught the
homebrew bug
from a colleague. I soon started my first batch "out of a tin" (October),
using a starter-kit
offered by one of the homebrew shops in the UK. The second and third batch
was a partial mash and
the fourth+ was a full mash (that was beginning of March).
I particulary enjoy the style of bavarian wheat beers (although I am from
northern germany) and
german export style lagers.
The lagers lead me to my first question: I brewed two lagers so far, one was
a partial mash (pilsener malt and dried malt extract, munich lager wyeast)
and the second one a full mash (pilsener malt+3%acid malt, bavarian lager
wyeast). Both batches tasted very good, but on both I observed that the
(vertical) walls
of the bottles were like "dusted", since the beer was clear on bottling,
presumably with yeast. I read
(in one of Papazians books) that this is due to a lack of yeast nutritients.
Unless this is a general problem
of pilsener malt I can hardly imagine that to be the reason in a full mash
(btw. mash shedule was 30mins @ 50C, 15min @ 66C and 20 mins @ 70C).
I did not observe that in any of my other beers.
It is a real nuisance because I have to bottle-brush every single bottle
(the beer is worth it, though), soaking in bleach/detergent does not remove
that layer completly.
So, what is the cause of this phenomen?
Second Question:
My supplies of homebrewed lager are close to zero and I would like to fill
up my shelves with
new lager. BUT: Even in England it is now too warm in my garage/shed for
lagering and I have no second fridge, and because of little space in our
house there is no way to fit one in (at least not without risking a
domestic...). So, even if not the real thing, is it worth trying to get
anywhere near that style in these conditions, e.g. with a low ester
producing ale yeast? (yes, I know it is blasphemy to ask that question, but
I am too much of a novice to be embarrased)
In the long run (when we move to a new house next spring) I will definitly
have a second fridge but who can do that long without lager (...possibly I
just have to face that domestic).
Third and last question:
I noticed that the use of slants seems very popular, although I see the
benefits, does anybody use the simpler method of freezing to reuse his/her
yest (slurry from primary)? I have tried that (freezing with 10%-15%
Glycerol and paranoid hygiene) and find it works very well. I would probably
not continue that over several gerenations, but I wonder is there a general
problem with that (like change of yeast charakteristic?).
All the best,
Jens (with on of his last lagers next to him)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:14:41 -0700
From: Robert Rumph <RobertR@mcmullenargus.com>
Subject: Yeast Harvesting - Mini Cylindriconicals
Pete asks about dumping yeast from the mini cylindriconicals from BBMB.
Like Troy said in his response, I too ordered the butterfly valve (which was
recommended by the BBMB staff member I spoke with over the ball valve). I
also have the racking cane option (which I highly recommend). I am ecstatic
with the functionality of the fermenter and the ease of use and cleaning (no
affiliation blah, blah, blah). My sanitation procedure follows the method
that was recommended by BBMB. I spray the inside of the valves with diluted
Idophor after every trub/yeast dump or gravity reading. After kegging, I
open my unit and hose out with hot water directly from my water heater. I
then scrub the inside down (stainless lid included) with the green side of
my sponge (I think the trade name for the stuff is Scotch-Brite) then blast
out the inside (valves included) again. I take the valves off the unit and
let everything air-dry. The next time I brew, I boil both valves (while
they are half open) for 15 minutes, reassemble the unit, and fill the entire
unit with diluted Idophor , soak a few minutes, drain, and then let stand
upside down on a clean surface until my wort is cool. I have brewed 10-11
batches since receiving the unit with no contamination.
I have performed what I thought were yeast dumps, but have never reused the
substance extracted. Troy or anyone else may be able to give me some advice
here. My standard pale ales stay in the fermenter 2 weeks. After one week
I dump the trub, after the next week I keg. I have done a second dump at
about mid-way through the second week and that material has appeared to be
healthy yeast cake, with little or no traces of hop debris. Would this be
harvestable yeast? The last batch I brewed (a Kolsh) clogged my racking
cane at about 4.75 gallons when I was kegging. Since it had never happened
before, I popped the lid off the fermenter to investigate and found a
substantial amount of what I believed was yeast cake in the bottom of my
unit. Would it be harvestable yeast at this stage as well?
After reading Troy's post I was a little confused as to what would be the
optimal timing for yeast harvesting. I would think at day 2-3 the dump
would be full of hop debris. I would appreciate any advice as I would like
to try reusing yeast this summer.
I have been lurking for a few months and have learned a lot from the
collective. I really appreciate having this resource. I hate to admit my
ignorance, but what does SWMBO stand for?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:21:27 -0500
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist@interlync.com>
Subject: peristaltic pumps
How-D,
I'm looking for a peristaltic pump that does greater than 2 litres/min
& is cheap enough. I've tried the surplus places, found one but they
sold it the day I called. Tried the local hospitals & labs with no
luck. I found one that is 25 years old but they wanted too much for
it & there's no replacement parts available.
Any good suggestions where to look would be appreciated & feel
free to email me directly.
Thanks,
Gary
Gary Smith
http://www.geocities.com/dawgmando/
"I have more talent in my smallest fart than you
have in your entire body"
- Walter Matthau to Barbara Streisand
(off camera while making "Hello Dolly") -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:28:48 -0400
From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: odd books (might be off topic)
The book you are thinking of with Oak Leaf and Pea Pod wines is "First Steps
in Winemaking" by C. J. J. Berry. It is available at BN.COM (no affiliation
....). "Country Wines" was published by Storey Books and appears to be out
of print.
Reif
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:09:05 -0500
From: Keith Busby <kbusby@facstaff.wisc.edu>
Subject: Lambic Pitching Schedules
Thanks to all those who pointed out that Wyeast sell four separate cultures
for Lambic. Now: what are the experiences in pitching what bug at what point?
Keith
Keith Busby
Professor of French
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Department of French and Italian
618 Van Hise Hall
Madison, WI 53706
(608) 262-3941
(608) 265-3892 (fax)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:54:02 +0200
From: jbpung@t-online.de (oxlid)
Subject: 220v Thermal Switch??
Does anyone know where I can buy an inexpensive (under $20) 220v thermal
switch to over-ride a chest freezer? I live in Germany, and I just acquired
an old chest freezer for free from a guy who moved out. I want to turn it
into a lager chest, but I need a 220-volt thermal override switch to keep my
beer from freezing to death!
JD
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 20:22:56 +1000
From: "plotek" <plotek@optushome.com.au>
Subject:
I throw down the challenge to Dr Pivo to go
even further
from somewhere obtain maltose as pure as
we get dextrose or sucrose. knock out 5%
added sugar beers on all three and then
compare the three to malt extract or mashed
beer
as far as i know, no spurment has titrated
the old yeasty to sugar unit length, possibly
another route.
personally- I dont think 5% is enough. Pivo,
Quak that he is, is only pertecktin his own
tastebuds. Go 50% like a real man so you can
see what it was like when you first started
The much misaligned and disgusting
InSaNe MuDguTs
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:33:05 -0500
From: james r layton <blutick@juno.com>
Subject: Source for Brett. and Pedio.
Keith Busby asked:
>Anybody know where I can get Brettanomyces and Pedioccocus currently? I
>don't mean the Wyeast Lambic blend. YCKC no longer supplies and Brewer's
>Resource is having trouble getting one of the two. I can culture from
slant.
Wyeast can provide them in a pure culture. Your homebrew shop won't
likely stock them but can order them for you. The Wyeast offerings that
may be of interest to you:
3112 Brett. bruxellensis
3526 Brett. lambicus
4335 Lactobacillus delbrueckii
4733 Pediococcus cerevisiae
Jim Layton
Howe, TX
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:35:45 -0400
From: "Michael J. Dale, PE" <michaeld@site-blauvelt.com>
Subject: Thanks
Just wanted to thank everyone who helped out with mead advice. It was
a great help - I'll let you know how the mead comes out!
mjd
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:35:17 -0500
From: "Micah Millspaw" <MMillspa@silganmfg.com>
Subject: handpump / beer engine
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 06:26:48 -0400
>From: "Kevin Kutskill" <beer-geek@home.com>
>Subject: British handpump questions
>Hoping to put an British handpump in my basement, but have a few
> questions.
>I've read that the pump cylinder holds a 1/4-1/2 pints worth of beer, and
>will be sitting at room temperature, unless something is done. They sell
>water jackets to circulate cool water around the cylinder, and keep the
>beer
>in the cylinder cool, but now I would have to have a setup to have a
>reservoir of cool water and pump to pump the water through this water
>jacket
>(read: more $$$). Anyone else come up with another solution, or is this not
>a problem to worry about in the first place? I would think that having room
>temperature beer sitting in the pump cylinder all the time increases the
>risk of infected beer, and in addition, it seems like a lot of wasted beer
>if I had to dump 1/4-1/2 pints worth of beer every time I want to pour
>myself a pint. Any comments?
>Kevin
As a owner/user of a beer engine (or British hand pump] I would like to
point out that they are fairly maintainence intensive and wasteful of beer
compared with more common beer dispensing equipment. That said, its
hard to beat a pint of hand pulled cask conditioned ale. Just be prepared
to have to work for it.
You need to consider just how quickly you can go thru your firkin
(or whatever keg your using) If your are not able to consume the
contents of the keg
in 3-5 days, then worrying about what is left in the pump cylinder to spoil is
of little consiquence.
Beyond that, I do not like to let beer set in the pump over night. Not
because of
spoilage but because the pump tends to be stiff and sticky for the first
couple of strokes the next day. So I shut off the beer from the keg,
disconect the line and then pull a gallon of warm water thru it. This
also flushes the swan neck and sparkler wich can be glued shut by
the beer as well.
Hope this helps
Micah Millspaw - brewer at large
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:08:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hop_Head@webtv.net
Subject: Low efficiency blues
I recently took the plunge into all grain brewing by building a two
tiered recirculating system.
The system uses three sanke kegs. The mash tun uses a "Sabco" false
bottom.
My efficiency numbers, I feel, are low. 55-59%. This is the same if I do
a 5 or 10 gallon batch.
I sparge slowly (at least 1 hour) I always have a significant amount of
runoff left over (3-5 gallons) after sparging to the required volume. I
don't know if this has anything to do with it or not.
I use a Corona grain mill and crush things up pretty good.
What can I do to get the numbers up to the 70% range?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:19:06 -0400
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski@adelphia.net>
Subject: Freezer Rust
I have had good luck with a product originally made by Dupont and marketed
as "Extend"
It is now marketed under different names and may be made by different
companies. Sometimes you see at as Extend, others as a Rustolium brand. If
it isn't in the paint department at Wal-mart or Kmart, it is in the auto
section near the body fillers etc.
Its basic characteristics are that it goes on white (milk like) or clear and
turns black wherever it contacts rust. Even iron in your skin turns black.
Some kind of chemical reaction converts the rust to something that doesn't
spread.
There are spray and brush on forms available.
I find it best to scrape off any rust that will flake off later but try to
leave a thin layer for the substance to react to. If the rust has penetrated
under paint, remove the paint to get a border of bare metal to be sure the
coating reaches all the rusted areas. Make sure it has been dry for 24
hours so you don't get moisture under the coating.
Hope this helps
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
********************************************************************
*My goal:
* Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
* (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:28:16 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp@pivo.w.se>
Subject: Sahti
There is one real live Finn who has written a book on brewing beer,
which includes a section on Sahti.
Erkki is his first name, and his last I've managed to forget.
Alan McKay (who sometimes contributes here) has read and reviewed his
book, and could probably point someone in the direction of it, if
interested.
I just took a look at Alan's site, but could not find a book review
place.
Dr. Pivo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:26:27 -0500
From: Jim Federline <jim.federline@maryville.com>
Subject: RE: Ultimate Mall Crawl
That "City Hall" place mentioned in a previous post is the "Town Hall"
brewpub in downtown Mpls. Nice place.
If you make the trek to downtown Mpls from Bloomington where the Mall of
America is, you might also like to check out Brit's Pub if you like
authentic UK beers in an authentic atmosphere, if just a bit over-British.
Okay british-style food at Brit's, too - but not a brewpub. They just have a
nice selection of imported Brit beers on tap.
Almost every place to drink good beer in the Twin Cities is not in the
vicinity of the MegaMall, but is within 10-20 miles.
A mainstay in the Twin Cities metro has been Sherlock's Home brewpub in
Minnetonka. The Water Tower brewpub is also within 5 miles of Sherlock's
Home (in Eden Prairie), but if you can't make both, go to Sherlock's - you
won't be disappointed. This is about 10 miles west-ish of the MegaMall.
In downtown St. Paul I know there is the Great Waters brewpub (have just
walked by it), but I'm a west-ender, and don't know the area all that well.
With regards to Summit Brewing, they recently moved into a
brand-spankin-new-brewery, out of their remodeled auto-garage and warehouse
(both in St. Paul) - I dunno if you can belly up at the new digs or not, but
I'm sure brewery tours are available.
-Jim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:30:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: B Johnson <bsota7@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Mall crawl: Mpls./St. Paul beer scene
Regarding the Steve Lane who has the, ahem,
*pleasure*, of visiting the Mega Mall, you won't find
much good to drink at the Mall itself. There are bars
on the top floor, but they cater to BudMillerCoors
crowd. But Summit on tap, typically the Pale Ale, is
available all over the Twin Cities, which you can't go
wrong with because it's brewed locally.
Jeff E mentioned "City Hall," he must have been
referring to Town Hall Brewery in the 7 corners area
of the West Bank in Minneapolis, which is a good
place. To get anywhere with good beer from where you
are, you're going to have to drive, but Town Hall is
not too far. Haven't been there in a while, so I can't
comment on their current selection. There's also a
Rock Bottom in downtown Mpls.
There's Sherlock's Home, which offers real ale, cask
conditioned, and a pretty wide selection. Only problem
is it's in the suburb of Minnetonka, a bit of a drive
from The Mall.
The Mall is a short highway drive to St. Paul where
there's Summit Brewery and Minnesota Brewing Company,
makers of Pig's Eye, Grain Belt (they revived this old
classic) and they have started to contract brew Mike's
Hard Lemonade. You'd have to call for times for tours.
There's Water Tower brew pub in Eden Prairie, and
Hops, a chain of brew pubs with two or three locations
in the area. Great food at Hops, beer is good too, but
it has to appeal to a wide audience, so there's
nothing out of the ordinary.
Hope this helps. Happy beer hunting!
Brett
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:50:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: "Making Beer"
I've had a cold, and so am late on this, but just had to comment on Jeff
Gladish's book recommendation:
>I've been waiting for anyone else to mention "Making Beer" by Mares, but I
>guess I may be one of very few who read it.
This is a *great* book, not so much as a "how-to", but more for the Zen of
homebrewing. It chronicles the author's journey as a homebrewer, from
driving past the homebrew shop and wondering what went on there, to making
a few successful beers, to mashing, to spec'ing out a microbrewery (which
was never realized). If you want to learn how to homebrew, it sucks, but
if you want to learn what happens to a homebrewer, it's great.
--frank
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:02:41 -0400
From: Phil Wilcox <pjwilcox@cmsenergy.com>
Subject: International Brewing
Cherio!
to all the rabble rouser's down under, here is an off topic question for
ya. My 2 year old daughter has a video tape produced by the Melborne
based group "The Wiggles." On the tape a 5 or 6 year old refers to going
on holiday and building a "billycart" with his dad. Just what exactly is
a billycart?
For the winning answer I will send you 2 bottles of my Big Brew 2001
Classic American Pilsner. This beer has just dropped bright and is
fantastic.
Bondia!
That portugues for hello! I have a friend who lives close to the
Antartica Breweries outside of Sao Paulo Brazil. He is very homesick for
good beer and is considering building himself a 2-tier brewery similar
to my own. Does anybody out there have any resources in Brazil for
specialty grains and hops? Much less the kind of equipment he would need
to build a nice little 60 L brewery? If successful he is considering
setting up a small brewpub, as many of his friend are also sick of
drinking swill. He recently sent me some beer coasters from a local bar
from the Schincariol brewery the beers name is Chopp, which I think
means Draft. Any one know this brewery?
Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:03:08 -0400
From: Phil Wilcox <pjwilcox@cmsenergy.com>
Subject: On Books and Rare Books
Books--
If I could only keep one, I would keep Ray Daniels, Designing great
beers. Mostly because of its analysis of different styles and how to
replicate them. This book will continue to be my brewing muse for years
to come. If I could keep Two, I would add Homebrewing 101 by Al Korz.
Great all purpose book. If I could keep 3, I would keep my dog-eared,
wort stained, tattered copy of TNCJOH. Why? So I could loan it out to
starrey eyed newbie's whom I can further inspire into this wonderful
hobby. Is TNCJOH always accurate? no. Does it give the best advice? no.
Is it always fun to read? YES! Will it help you make good beer? Yes! And
that is the bottom line.
Rare book:
A friend of mine (Siebel trained, but no longer in the industry) loaned
me an old brewing book he got from his father in law who was the
president of a midwest brewery that is currently celebrating its 140th
anniversary. The leather bound 73pg book is oversized and probubly
published in 1893 by an industry trade group. It seems to be what we
would now call a "coffee table" book. The spine is wearing badly and
doesn't seem to have any writing on it. The cover is mildly plain and
titled "Malting and Brewing"
The inside bookplate indicates it was originally owned by Chas. Kaestner
& Co. (a Chicago foundry, millwright, and Machinists shop founded 1864)
This is one of the 30 or so companies that has full page advertisments
in the back half of the book. The first inside cover has a 2-color print
titling the book as The Great Breweries of America. It has an eagle
perched atop a shield, with a few cherubs at the base turning on a tap
coming out of the shield.
The next cover page has a short introduction on it. The facing page
restates the title as The Great Breweries of America--Origin and growth
of the brewing and Malting Industry at home and abroad--Profusely
Illustrated with portraits of Prominent brewers of America with fine
halftone views of their breweries--Lanward Publishing Company--Chicago.
Interestingly enough there is no date or any other publishing or author
information in any part of the book. An add midway through the book by
the Frick Company, Engineers of Waynesboro Pa. refers to their new 1894
catalog. This is the best estimate of a publication date.
The introduction is as follows. "This work contains a history of the
development of the Brewing and Malting Industry in the United States,
from its earliest establishment to the present time: also an allusion to
the origin of Brewing and to the history of the art in foreign
countries. It contains much information of interest to Brewers and
kindred interests, and will be highly prized and preserved as a souvenir
of the development of the art."
Though pretty light on anthropological data regarding the "earliest
establishment" it does offer a wonderful glimpse of the "present time"
including some industry data and a facinating analysis of the growing
temperance movement. The book is not chaptered or sectioned off in any
way. But roughly the second half is industry advertisements. Full page
lithographs of various kettle makers, cooperages, Ice makers, chillers
manufacturers, you name it... There are some truly stunning prints in
this section. The first half is text based on the above outline. The
text is broken up by pictures of the early pioneers of brewing in
America and usually a full page lithograph of their brewery. Busch,
Voigt, Pabst, Milwaulkee Brewing Co. among others, Interestingly no
Stroh's.
If any of you bookworms and librarians have ever seen books like this
before, I would be interested to know more about them. I imagine its
owner would like to know of its value, but I expect that would be quite
difficult to determine.
Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:54:09 -0500
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner@mailbag.com>
Subject: Ball Valves, Polders and Radio Shack Thermometer in ferment
My experience is that there is no way to completely clean a ball valve
without taking it apart. So, buy stainless ball valves that can be
disassembled. We're talking $15-$20. You have to take them apart and clean
the inner chamber and Teflon gaskets with a brush. Then they can be baked in
an oven or you can put them into a bowl of idophor sanitizer, open and close
until all the air is let out and then shut with the inner chamber full of
sanitizer.
I benchmarked the two Polders I own against a trace thermometer and found
them to be 3 to 4 degrees low. I guess it makes sense that they err on the
side of overcooking a roast. I also noticed that they stair step up a degree
or two at a time. Rarely do they go up by the tenths they display. Even
without moisture they sometime go haywire. Humidity will affect them.
I found the $15 Taylor electric thermometer to be .5 degrees off but
susceptible to excessive humidity. It shouldn't be poked through a float and
left on a mash.
The cheap bimetals can be calibrated to 154 degrees and if treated gingerly
be consistent for reading mash temperatures. Humidity doesn't bother them.
I have cleaned and sanitized my Radio Shack $12 indoor-outdoor probe
thermometer and put it right into my open fermenter. Works great. The wire
is stiff enough to hold the probe away from the wall. I cover the top of the
fermenter with plastic wrap to keep the dust out.
Bruce Garner in Madison Wisconsin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:09:27 -0400
From: "John Elsworth" <jdelsworth@hotmail.com>
Subject: Another old book
There is a book that I have not seen mentioned, but which was a big help to
me back in the early 80's when I moved from the UK to the USA. It was "Home
Brewing for Americans" by Dave Miller (published 1981). Strangely enough, I
bought this in England before moving, and have never seen another copy for
sale since. It was, more or less, a translation of Dave Line's "Big Book",
using ingredients then available in the US (no English 2-row in home brew
shops back then), and a (short) list of homebrew suppliers in the US.
Miller's photo on the back-cover looks, how shall I say, ...dated!
John Elsworth
Hamden, CT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:28:15 -0500
From: Dan.Stedman@PILLSBURY.COM
Subject: Anyone try the ShurFlo pump?
Hi all - have any of you tried the new ShurFlo pump that morebeer.com is
selling? Seems like it would be a real strong performer, with it's only
limitation being that it is only rated for 20 minutes of use per hour (which
seems strange - why would this be?). It would be nice to have a self-priming
pump, but I would also like to be able to recirculate
I am in the market for a new pump since I have had some problems with my March
6144MM. The magnetic coupling decouples every 5-10 minutes while I am
recirculating. All I have to do is turn the pump off and on again and it works
fine for another 5-10 minutes. It has even done it recirculating just water
(though not as often), so I am reasonably confident it isn't due to a compacted
grain bed. Plus, it doesn't make the "marbles in a bag" sound that indicates a
stoppage on the inflow - it just decouples without warning. I've taken the pump
apart & inspected the impeller, shaft, and housing and I can't see anything out
of the ordinary with the exception of a couple of little dents on the impeller
(that don't seem to contact the housing). If anyone has any ideas why this would
be happening, I would love to hear them.
Dan in Minnetonka
BTW - regarding the table sugar discussion, I just made 10 gallons of Belgian
Dubbel where I added 2 pounds of white table sugar (based on someone's recipe
where they indicated that it wasn't any different then candy sugar), and I am
pretty sure I can taste the cidery-ness the Doc refers to. Is white sugar
different then candy sugar?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:28:29 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsbrewing@cyberportal.net>
Subject: Re: Brettanomyces and Pediococcus
"Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
"I was able to find Brettanomyces lambicus from Brewer's Resource
(brewtek.com), cat. no. CL5200. They also offer Pediococcus damnosus
(CL5600), but I haven't
ordered it so I don't know if it is really available."
I have ordered it, and it is readily available on slants, they have many
other unique slants as well.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:34:44 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsbrewing@cyberportal.net>
Subject: Re: Ball Valve Cleaning/sanitizing
"Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke@merck.com> wrote:
Jay Wirsig had a good idea about cleaning a ball valve.
>A recent post posed a question about ball valve cleaning (on the bottom of
>a conical fermenter) for yeast harvesting. One way of doing this is
>drilling a hole in the ball on the downstream side so that the contents
>trapped inside the ball may drain and a special cleaning lance could be
>made to insert into the ball cavity for cleaning & sanitizing.
|"You might be able to machine it at home if you get one of those valves
that
|can be disassembled. But they cost $$$. A good valve has a stainless ball
|and I'm sure it's not a simple job. The other alternative is to purchase a
|3-way valve and use one of the ports for cleaning. Again, $$$, but no
work."
Another way of doing this is to purchase a dump & waste ball-valve, a 1/2"
valve would normally have a 1/4" cast tube off one end or port that comes
with a cap.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3660, 06/15/01
*************************************
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